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Bulwark Takes
Oversight DELIVERS! Trump’s Lies EXPOSED! (w/ Rep. Robert Garcia, Cam Kasky, Jack Cocchiarella)
00:24:16
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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Newer models may be shown hey everybody.
- [00:31]
Tim Miller
Tim Miller from the bulk, We've got a very great, important interview here from the FYpod team. By the way, if you haven't checked out the FYPOD spinoff page, my co host Cam is just doing the Lord's work over there. We're doing our best to create another page that is more aimed at issues that Gen Z cares about. But people of any age, people who are young at heart, are welcome to go subscribe to that page as well. So our weekly show is over there on that page on Saturday. So for nothing else, you want to subscribe to it, make sure to get the full Cam and Tim show. But he's doing some other interviews over there and other hot takes and a bunch of cool stuff. And I was supposed to join for this one with Robert Garcia, who has just a new congressman, relatively new, he's a new chair of the House Oversight Committee, and he's just doing a remarkable job over there. You can already see the impact of what he's been doing at the House Oversight Committee in this Epstein case being brought back to the fore. And some of the leaked information that we've seen, not saying that he leaked it, but just the work, the oversight work from the committee and the gathering of documents, I think was essentially the impetus for why we actually get to see Trump's creepy letter to Epstein, Creepy birthday letter, actually see what it looked like that led to today. Actually, let's play this clip that led to today. This clip from Joe Rogan.
- [01:53]
Joe Rogan (clip)
There must be more to life than having everything. DONALD yes, there is. So he wrote this, supposedly the voice, it says voiceover like he's like a movie star, like he's in a script. DONALD yes, there is. But I won't tell you what it is. JEFFREY Nor will I, since I also know what it is. Who talks like this? DONALD we have certain things in common. Jeffrey. JEFFREY yes, we do. Come to think of it. DONALD enigmas never Age. Have you noticed that, Jeffrey? As a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you. Yeah, a pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday. May every day be another wonderful secret. Oh, and then I like how he's got the signature where the Bushes.
- [02:35]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan (clip)
Okay, that's a dude with womanly hips.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan (clip)
Like, look at the boobs. They're weird.
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Tim Miller
It's like, it could be a back.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan (clip)
It could be anything. It could be a snail smile.
- [02:44]
Cam Caskey
I don't get why he's writing a script.
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Tim Miller
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan (clip)
Very odd stuff. It's quite strange, but it's also like, the way, like, enigmas never age. Have you noticed that? And, Jeffrey, as a matter of fact, it was clear to me the last time I saw you. Like, if one of my friends sent me that, I'd be like, I'm getting a new number.
- [03:01]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Yeah.
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Cam Caskey
Why didn't you say?
- [03:04]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Happy birthday?
- [03:04]
Tim Miller
Yeah.
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Joe Rogan (clip)
What the fuck is wrong with you? Enigma.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
Happy birthday, Jeff. That's all I want. Happy birthday, Jeff.
- [03:11]
Cam Caskey
May we hang out soon?
- [03:13]
Tim Miller
So there you go. This is why oversight matters. This is why Democrats on the Hill actually doing politics, playing hardball, being online, being aggressive. This is how it can pay dividends in ways you don't even expect. Like, they're just going for documents. Next thing you know, Joe Rogan's making fun of Trump's creepy enigma letter to Jeffrey Epstein. Who knows who that could impact? But it's the kind of stuff Democrats haven't been doing. And I'm so pumped Robert Garcia is out there doing it. I'm staying in touch with him, but I'm happy to pass the baton to Cam on this one since he was there in person in D.C. no reason to have me zooming in, so stick around. Cam Caskey, little mini me. Look at him. Look, he's so cute. Dressed up in a suit with Congressman Robert Garcia. Enjoy.
- [04:01]
Cam Caskey
Hey, everybody, it's Cam from Bulwark. I'm joined today by my friend, one of the top experts, Jack Cacciarella, and someone who, by Congressional standards is, like, younger than we are, Mr. Robert Garcia.
- [04:12]
Congressman Robert Garcia
How are we?
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Cam Caskey
You're like, what, like, 34?
- [04:15]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Oh, yeah. 22. Oh, yeah.
- [04:17]
Cam Caskey
Well, you must walk in to the Capitol, and people look at you and they're like, man, this fucking kid is walking in here.
- [04:26]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I think anyone that's newer to Congress, I think a lot of folks are wondering who we are still, but I think we're making a lot of. A lot of. A lot of good wave. A lot of good wave.
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Jack Cacciarella
Do you think People are finding out and learning a little bit about you in these recent. What's been going on in these recent weeks that they would like, are you doing anything right now? Is anything happening?
- [04:42]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Oh, I mean, yeah, everything is pretty boring in Congress right now. No, look, man, I think right now we're in, I mean, honestly, we're in a very serious moment, like we are. This Epstein files issue is huge. I think it's dominating D.C. in the country. Anytime I go back home and I, you know, talking to folks about health care or about taxes to billionaires, the first thing they want to talk to me about is what the hell's going on with the Epstein files. And I think it goes and goes to the heart of kind of betrayal that people feel around Donald Trump and the kind of just disgusting nature of this massive cover up. And so that's what everyone is asking me about when I'm up at the Capitol. Honestly, members on the floor, staff people back home. It's what people are focused on.
- [05:23]
Jack Cacciarella
What's the element of, for me, what's flying under the radar the most is that this isn't just a cover up on behalf of Donald Trump, but also all of the other associates of Epstein are being defended, protected, hidden by Donald Trump because they know once you start to pull at that thread a little bit, everything unravels. Of course, the DOJ can block whatever, they can try Cash Patel can withhold, withhold information. But you know, you see Pam Bondi trying to stop the two Epstein associates who are wired what it was, 100,000 and $250,000 respectively, from their names, becoming public because, you know, outreach to these people, subpoenaing these people, they do have to pass over this information. There's going to be no executive privilege or Donald Trump stepping in the way. What more are we learning about Epstein associates around him and maybe connected to Donald Trump, that can start to shed a little bit more light because certainly that was the case with the birthday book going through the estate. But how is that process playing out with the associates right now?
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Congressman Robert Garcia
So I think, look, like, let me take one step back. I think people kind of forget what actually started this whole chain of events and where we're headed. So one of the people need to understand, and I remind people it's really important, let's be crystal clear that per Jeffrey Epstein and his own comments, he said that Donald Trump was his best friend for 15 years. They were best friends per Jeffrey Epstein.
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Cam Caskey
Which is a long relationship by Donald Trump's standards.
- [06:42]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Well, and when you, I mean, if you have someone that is a convicted sexual trafficker, someone that abused and raped women and girls, and he is claiming to have this close friendship with Donald Trump, that should first cause us all, like, alarm and really be kind of disgusted about what Jeffrey Epstein was building. He ran maybe the largest and most complex trafficking system enterprise in the modern era. He was essentially providing women and girls to the most powerful wealthiest people on the planet. There's evidence that there could have been foreign governments involved. There's evidence that this trafficking was going through some of these kind of talent shows that were happening across the country, often involving children. And so you have all of this that is also centered in Palm Beach. And so Palm beach seems to be, like, the center of where this was happening, is where Epstein was. It's where Mar A Lago is. It's where a lot of the folks that were involved, where a lot of the crimes that happened. Of course, Jeffrey Epstein was being Alex Acosta at the time, who was, you know, he was obviously the U.S. attorney there. So everything's happening in Florida, in New York. So now we take one step back, and we fast forward to where we are. We know that they were friends. We know that Jeffrey Epstein is a trafficker. Somehow, Jeffrey Epstein, in the process of trying to convict him years ago, he ends up with this sweetheart deal. FBI, different agents, folks were looking at prosecuting, not just Epstein, but blowing the lid on this whole trafficking ring. Interviewing women, getting testimony, essentially being a big part of the creation of the Epstein files. I mean, they were creating a case, they were collecting testimony, they were taking information from the Epstein estate. So there's all of these documents and interviews and flight logs and the case against Jeffrey Epstein. And then here comes Alex Acosta, who later becomes Trump's Labor Secretary and is a U.S. attorney out in Florida. And he has this sweeping sweetheart deal, which no one can understand. Why. Why did Jeffrey Epstein get this deal from Akasha? This is a serial trafficker. And so he gets his sweetheart deal. Jeffrey Epstein basically gets a slap on the wrist, goes to a kind of a minimum facility, secured facility, has time as release time, where he again begins to victimize women during his release time.
- [09:23]
Cam Caskey
And I don't know if this ever comes up, at least in regards to releasing the Epstein files. But from what I understand, he also spent a lot of this time looking into security and surveillance technology involved with people from all sorts of different countries. And he had a relationship with Peter Thiel. Does this ever come up?
- [09:43]
Congressman Robert Garcia
So these are all pieces that right now we're actually investigating it is true that there are some very interesting and familiar names that we know that seem to have been tied to a lot of work happening in the broader kind of Epstein scandal. And we're going to be kind of rolling out some of this information, and especially now that, of course, when Epstein dies, commits suicide, what happened then, I think still deserves some scrutiny. And then we know that survivors begin to come forward. Survivors begin to say what happened, what came forward. Acosta, of course, is nominated by Trump to be Labor Secretary, has to leave that position because they had a relationship. And now we have all these survivors finally coming forward in a big way, publicly saying, we demand justice. Hearing women, adult women, through their own tears and trauma, talk about being raped, talking about Ghislaine Maxwell, walking them from their home to Jeffrey Epstein's home in New York is disgusting and troubling. And yet Trump is calling this a big hoax, which we now know it's not a hoax.
- [11:01]
Cam Caskey
Yeah, it's been very interesting to me the degree to which the survivors have been left out. I mean, it can't be too surprising because survivors of sexual violence, abuse, and assault are very often left out, if not targeted and attacked. But I feel as though the right's politicization of this and their efforts to paint it as some sort of partisan smear job have effectively kind of put those survivors in a position where sharing their stories is now operating as some sort of Democratic operative, as opposed to just talking about what is, again, one of the largest conspiracies we've seen of this kind. But I'm curious, we've seen videos of a Republican noticeably shook walking out of a meeting with survivors. Do you ever have any conversations with Republicans in Congress? Like, hey, you know, there's actual people involved with this. Right.
- [11:55]
Jack Cacciarella
And I think we can say Nancy Mace, considering she decided to backtrack after.
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Cam Caskey
I wasn't. I wasn't trying to be nice to her by not saying her name. I forgot who it was.
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Jack Cacciarella
Okay. I was about to say, I think, like, I want to just, like, make it clear. Completely backtracked and says, the. The President has my support. What are you hearing behind closed doors with Republicans who. Some are saying, I don't feel comfortable about this, but I'm going to continue to back the President, and then those who perform outrage and then just support the President.
- [12:18]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I don't see how anyone, any Republican that was at that roundtable with these survivors could want to hide the truth from coming out. And yet they are. I mean, Mike Johnson was there, and, you know, he called President Trump an informant. I mean, there is just so many lies that are going on. Republicans are falling over themselves to cover up for Donald Trump. And when you have someone that ran on, I'm going to release the Epstein files as part of their campaign. It was central to the campaign Cash Patel was talking about it, JD Vance was talking about it. The whole MAGA sphere was talking about releasing the Epstein files. And then you do a complete flip after Pam Bondi says they're on her desk. And any reasonable person should be asking themselves, why the flip? Why the going from let's release these files, somebody was one of my best friends to it's a hoax, his words, it's a hoax. And then the birthday book, which we caught him flat footed on, which he said didn't exist, it exists. Our attorneys, not only do we have the, the image, we saw it in person. That is his signature. Forensic science is clear for the forensic experts that have obviously been talking, we've seen on the media and other places. And so now we're at a point where we've subpoenaed Democrats for subpoenaed. We have subpoenaed the files and the DOJ is stalling. They've sent us documents that we've already seen in Royal Republic. They're compelled to send us the rest of the files. And when we get those, we're gonna work to get those and make those and get them out and get the information out to the American public.
- [13:56]
Jack Cacciarella
I have two other behind the scenes question. The first is Marjorie Taylor Greene said that she did speak to Trump about talking to the survivors. He then, like later that day or it was the next day, said, well, no one's ever brought this up. I haven't thought about it. Do you know anything about the nature of that call that she had? Did she talk to you about that?
- [14:13]
Congressman Robert Garcia
No. Well, first, look, I appreciate any Republican who at any moment wants to do the right thing, that Marjorie Taylor Greene is no friend of women or survivors or people that are going through sex abuse. And so I don't, you know, I don't, I think it's nice when, when, when folks end up doing the right thing every once in a while. But the amount of, of terror and violence that she has inflicted upon so many others, I think has to be brought up in, in this broader scope of her trying to seek some level of justice in this moment. I, I am glad that she is engaged. I hope that she stays consistent and I hope she can convince other Republicans to also demand because then that was.
- [14:51]
Jack Cacciarella
Gonna Be my, my other question was, you don't have to say names. I know. Like, if you say, well, it's, it's X individual who that we think we can kind of move off the fence to supporting this. A second from now, they're going to be getting a call from Trump and Pambani. But, like, what does that process look like of trying to move Republicans to work with you in this process?
- [15:12]
Congressman Robert Garcia
I mean, look, I think it hasn't been easy. I think like Tom Massey has been the one really kind of leading the charge on the Republican side and Ro Khanna have been doing a lot of work to try to move some Republicans over that he has relationships with. We have tried, but on the oversight side of kind of where we have jurisdiction, we've had a really fight to get any disclosure. We had a fight to get the subpoena. We're the ones that fought to get Acosta deposed, which we're finally gonna do that later at the end of this week. We're the ones that forced essentially the estate to turn over the book and got the subpoena going. There would be nothing, we would know dramatically less information than if you didn't have a bunch of fighters on the oversight committee. And I think that we are pushing, we're being strategic and we're at a point now where we're doing a lot of interviews with a lot of survivors. We're getting information and people need to understand. People say, oh well, these women should go and just tell all their stories. It's not the way it works.
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Jack Cacciarella
I mean, people need to have competitive onus on survivors.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
Right?
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Jack Cacciarella
These women, we have members of Congress not doing anything.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
They've gone through trauma and there's many are scared these men, many cases these women have are, you know, have children or families now or are scared and want to just be left alone. And they don't want to be re traumatized every day being reminded and certainly they don't want powerful men to target them. And so I think that's where we're at right now. But we're not going to give this up. I tell people all the time like, we ain't going anywhere. We're going to push every day.
- [16:50]
Cam Caskey
I talk about this with gun violence as well. Like it's so easy to forget the real human toll of things like this and that there are real human beings involved with this, especially when it's such a spectacle. And then I was at a Love island reunion watch party where there was already kind of a little bit of zoomer Drama going on.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
I'm an Alandria fan, by the way.
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Cam Caskey
Okay, well, we have that on camera. That is the Congressman on record.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
I also watched. I actually watched the whole season of Love, of this last whole season of Love island.
- [17:17]
Cam Caskey
And that is important for me.
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Jack Cacciarella
Did you watch it live every time?
- [17:19]
Congressman Robert Garcia
No, I caught it up. Like, this would be like, I'm at home at midnight super show.
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Cam Caskey
Let it be known. Let it be known that if you see Congressman Garcia on his phone, there's a chance he's watching Love island to catch up. And that's okay because I hold space for that truth. But I was at a Love island reunion watch party, and I was talking to this girl who was like my age, and we follow each other on Instagram. She seems so nice. We have mutual friends. And the next day she DMs me. You do a podcast with Tim Miller, and I'm like, you're under 35. How do you know who Tim Miller is? And she says, he just had my mom on his show. And I went, oh, is your mom some former labor secretary or, you know, former Republican talking shit about Trump? And she said, no, she's a prominent, outspoken Epstein survivor. And I was like, oh, my God, these are real fucking human beings. And you forget about that. But my last question about this is just like, I have this pervasive fear that I'm sure plenty of people do, that's like, if a president is riling people up enough and flooding the media enough and saying enough inflammatory remarks that gets people talking, like, ultimately the MAGA base is not going to care about the giant child sex trafficking ring that the president either was directly involved with, as we have reason to believe, or was best friends with the guy and was so stupid that he did not figure that out over 15 years. Do you think we will be able to keep people engaged and make sure people don't give up and just assume that this is something that can't be a winning issue?
- [18:55]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Yeah, I mean, two things, I think. One is the worry that you have, I think is real, because just take the Ghislaine Maxwell piece. She is a known monster who abused women herself and is a trafficker of children. And yet she gets a reduced prison location. She gets to tell her story and lionized by some on the right because it's in their best interest of the narrative they want to give. And yet the entire country should have rebelled against that. To say, you're giving this woman a reduced facility, facility that's basically she can roam freely and have access Open access, where she has been convicted of these horrific crimes. And so I worry that as we uncover and as we hopefully call and demand justice on behalf of these, on behalf of these women, but against these very powerful men. And I've told people, I don't care. I mean, honestly, you don't give a fuck what political party these people are in, how powerful they were, what position they were in? Like, people say, oh, do you. I remember early on, some folks were like, oh, you know, you know, these other folks could, could be implicated or have you thought about. I was like, I don't care. I really could care less about that. I think, I think we have to just be centered in doing the right thing. And I think that what's scary is that this Glenn Maxwell thing hasn't moved people. And so it's our job, and I think that's where Congress comes into it is our job to keep this front and center and to talk about it and to fight for it. And I think that all members of Congress that care about the safety of women and knowing that a lot of women are watching our actions right now, it's been clear to me by some of the mail that I get now that there are women and there are people that have gone through, had sexual violence thrust upon them that are watching, saying, is the government actually going to do anything about this? And if not, what does that say to everyone else across this country that is going through something horrific?
- [20:59]
Jack Cacciarella
And so that's where I wanted to end. Not to make this like a Democratic messaging criticism at the end, but I see a lot of, you know, we're talking about the Epstein files. This is a betrayal by Donald Trump. So is Medicaid. So is plug in issue. So is this, which I think detracts from the seriousness of the situation one, but it's also so standalone, you don't need to tell a story about how this is a betrayal. It becomes pretty obvious. Obviously no one is focusing on this, working on this, trying to bring justice to this any more than yourself right now. What do you communicate to your colleagues talking about this, who may be using it as a pivot or a jumping off point? And do you think that that doesn't keep it front of mind correctly or addresses the seriousness? How do you think that other Democrats need to be talking about this in a way that communicates the moment properly?
- [21:51]
Congressman Robert Garcia
So what I've told folks is, you know, is to always first center the victims and always this is about justice for survivors and the victims of Jeffrey Epstein. That's first and foremost, most important. And then it's, you know, we should be able to talk about multiple things at once, and we should be able to say Donald Trump is ripping away health care from 17 million people, that billionaires are getting massive tax breaks, and that Donald Trump is the most corrupt president in history and he's betrayed his base by not releasing the Epstein files. It's about betrayal to the American people. He's lying to them. And by doubling down on this being betrayal and this being corruption, I think it speaks to the broader person of who Donald Trump is. And if he's going to betray you on the Epstein files, he's going to betray you and lie to you on health care. He's going to betray and lie to you on everything else. He's telling you about lowering your cost of living. And I think that's what I hear from people that are casual political observers is this is broken through. Like, when I'm at home and, like, I'm talking to folks that are not super engaged, they're talking about this.
- [22:56]
Jack Cacciarella
Yeah.
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Congressman Robert Garcia
And so we have their attention. Like, let's, you know, we have to use it.
- [23:00]
Cam Caskey
Congressman Garcia, thanks so much for joining us. I. Listen, it's been a long week, everybody. People are tired. People are stressed and frustrated. I need to have a conversation that's important to me. You can click out right now. I don't care. This is for me. And that is the end of it. So Superman has come out. Superman 2025, starring David Corenswet, Rachel Brosnahan and many other great performers.
- [23:21]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Amazing movie.
- [23:22]
Cam Caskey
You swore into Congress on a copy of Action Comics One that was authentic, right?
- [23:26]
Congressman Robert Garcia
From the Library of Congress.
- [23:27]
Cam Caskey
That is unbelievable. Listen, sometimes in politics, you have to take a position. You might not be able to make everybody happy, but you have to take a stance if you're going to be an honest broker. Who is the best Superman of all time?
- [23:43]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Yes, the best Superman of all time is Christopher Reeve.
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Cam Caskey
Okay.
- [23:47]
Congressman Robert Garcia
And I think that. I think that corn sweat is. Is up there probably, probably in that second slot.
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Cam Caskey
Yeah, I think that that is fair. I put corn sweat first. But I also think it's just a different experience because you got to see Corenswet doing stuff that the tech just didn't allow Christopher Reeve to do.
- [24:05]
Congressman Robert Garcia
But for me, like, the first Superman I saw on screen was Christopher Reeve, and that was like. That was, like, life changing for a fan of the comics. And so. But modern, modern Superman. This is the best Superman tape we've had as modern Superman.
- [24:22]
Cam Caskey
Well, I'll tell you this, Everybody. As a 2000 baby, the first Superman I saw on screen was Tom Welling. And that made me say, wait a second. Do I also think that boys are cute? Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. This has been great, and I appreciate your work.
- [24:35]
Congressman Robert Garcia
Absolutely. Thank you.
- [24:36]
Cam Caskey
Everybody at Bulwark. Stay tuned. Many more crazy things to come.