Bulwark Takes: Pam Bondi’s BOTCHED Epstein Files Spark DOJ Chaos! (w/ Glenn Thrush) Release Date: July 16, 2025

In this compelling episode of Bulwark Takes, host Sam Stein engages in a deep dive with Glenn Thrush of The New York Times, renowned for his coverage of the Department of Justice (DOJ). Together, they unpack the tumultuous events surrounding the mishandling of Jeffrey Epstein’s files by key DOJ figures—Pam Bondi, Cash Patel, and Dan Bongino—and explore the ensuing chaos within the DOJ. This detailed summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting critical insights, key points, and notable quotes.

1. Introduction and Context

Sam Stein opens the conversation with a light-hearted reference to McDonald's breakfast offerings before transitioning into the serious topic at hand. He introduces Glenn Thrush, praising his extensive reporting on the DOJ and setting the stage for an in-depth analysis of the current DOJ turmoil.

Sam Stein [00:00]: "Pam Bondi, Cash Patel, and Dan Bongino have tried to manage the non-release of files around Jeffrey Epstein. And it has resulted in incredible amounts of friction that we're not accustomed to seeing."

2. Overview of DOJ Friction

Glenn Thrush confirms the presence of significant friction within the DOJ, attributing it to the personalities and backgrounds of Bondi, Patel, and Bongino. He emphasizes that while these figures are central to the chaos, their actions are also influenced by their alignment with the Trump media ecosystem.

Glenn Thrush [01:55]: "There's a tremendous amount of friction. These three characters—Pam Bondi, Dan Bongino, and Cash Patel—are creatures of this Trump media ecosphere."

3. Background on Key DOJ Figures

a. Cash Patel

Patel is critiqued for his lack of FBI experience despite holding a significant position. Thrush highlights Patel’s opaque nature and his entanglement within the Trump inner circle, including his literary contributions featuring Donald Trump.

Glenn Thrush [04:41]: "Patel is a guy who wrote children's books in which Donald was the main character. That said, Patel is also a serious, intelligent person with a substantial career as a policy person."

b. Dan Bongino

Bongino’s appointment is described as unconventional—transitioning from a podcaster and Secret Service agent to the Deputy Director of the FBI, a role traditionally held by seasoned professionals. Thrush suggests Bongino’s performance signals a desire to exit the role.

Glenn Thrush [03:47]: "Bongino has a job called Deputy Director, which has always gone to someone with 10, 20, 30, 40 years of experience. Bongino is a podcaster who served as a Secret Service agent."

4. The Epstein Files Controversy

The episode delves into the recent uproar over the handling of Epstein’s files. Bondi, Patel, and Bongino initially promised significant revelations but provided little new information, leading to public frustration and internal DOJ tension.

Sam Stein [05:33]: "Pam Bondi, Cash Patel, and Dan Bongino tried managing the non-release of files around Jeffrey Epstein, resulting in unprecedented friction."

Glenn Thrush [07:09]: "There was some flotsam and jetsam. I imagine it added texture to what we knew already, but she knew the material in the binder was right."

5. Timing and Political Implications

Sam Stein questions the sudden resurgence of the Epstein files story during a politically sensitive period, particularly around the July 4th weekend. Thrush explains that the pressure to keep the narrative alive stems from the high public interest and the potential for ongoing revelations.

Sam Stein [05:33]: "Why did they decide to come out at that point in time to make that declaration?"

Glenn Thrush [10:10]: "Epstein generates clicks. The man has enriched people, enhanced reputations, and provided booster fuel for these officials' power positions."

6. Relationship with Trump and Loyalty

The discussion shifts to Donald Trump’s relationship with Pam Bondi. Thrush posits that Trump prioritizes loyalty over expertise, retaining Bondi despite the controversies to ensure unwavering support.

Glenn Thrush [16:04]: "Trump wants an attorney general who is deeply, deeply loyal to him. That's what he values more than anything else."

7. Legacy and Midterm Influences

Thrush touches on Trump’s focus on legacy, citing significant achievements like the Iran strike and major legislation as efforts to cement his presidency. He also notes the structural advantages for the party out of power as midterms approach, influencing the administration's actions.

Glenn Thrush [17:41]: "Trump appears to be focused on legacy. His actions with Iran and passing significant legislation are big legacy victories for any president."

8. Conclusion and Open Questions

As the conversation wraps up, both hosts acknowledge the enduring mystery surrounding Epstein’s activities and the DOJ’s handling of the files. Thrush underscores the ongoing potential for new revelations that could further complicate the narrative.

Glenn Thrush [20:38]: "There could be some revelation around these files or around a victim, and then suddenly this takes an entirely new turn."

Sam Stein [21:18]: "What is the one bit of information around the Epstein saga with respect to how it's playing out in DOJ that you are like, want to know more than anything else?"

Notable Quotes

• Glenn Thrush [03:47]:
  "Bongino is a podcaster who served as a Secret Service agent. It's instructive to understand that on the FBI side, these guys are not."

• Sam Stein [12:23]:
  "But the connections are not there between her and Patel and Bongino. And that's where we get to this current friction."

• Glenn Thrush [16:04]:
  "Trump wants an attorney general who is deeply, deeply loyal to him. That's what he values more than anything else."

Key Takeaways

• Significant Internal Friction: The DOJ is experiencing unprecedented levels of tension due to the handling of Epstein’s files by Bondi, Patel, and Bongino.

• Unconventional Appointments: Both Patel and Bongino lack traditional FBI backgrounds, raising questions about their effectiveness and the rationale behind their appointments.

• Political Maneuvering: The Epstein files saga is intertwined with political strategies, legacy considerations, and Trump’s emphasis on loyalty over expertise.

• Ongoing Uncertainties: The lack of transparency and the potential for new revelations keep the Epstein case's implications within the DOJ and broader politics uncertain and volatile.

This episode of Bulwark Takes offers an incisive examination of the current challenges within the DOJ, highlighting how political affiliations and unconventional appointments can lead to systemic friction and public distrust. For listeners seeking to understand the intricate dynamics of law enforcement agencies amidst political turbulence, this discussion provides valuable perspectives and expert analysis.