Transcript
Sam Stein (0:00)
Not all meals are created equal. For instance, breakfast has the spicy egg McMuffin for a limited time, and lunch doesn't. McDonald's breakfast comes first. Hey, guys, Sam Stein here, managing editor at the Bulwark. And I am joined by the Grand Poobah. The dean, I would say, of the DOJ press corps is his eminence, Glenn Thrush of the New York Times. Glenn, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it. I know you're a busy, but there's a lot going on in your world, and we need you to unpack it for us. And for those who don't know, Glenn and I go back, God, you know, 15 years of reporting. We met back during the Obama era. We've been crossing paths for a variety of reasons and times since then. Glenn is incredible, one of the best reporters in the game, and really, if you haven't read his stuff, he is just dominating the DOJ beat. So, Glenn, thank you for doing this. Appreciate it.
Glenn Thrush (0:58)
Well, I mean, that's nonsense, but thank you anyway.
Sam Stein (1:01)
Well, I'm contractually obligated to say that so that. So that we get the viewers to stay. All right, let's talk about what's going on. I want to get into the politics of this in a little bit, but really, I think where you can provide insight for us is what's going on at the DOJ in the setup here. I think people basically know it, but just for the purposes of setting you up, Pam Bondi, Cash Patel, and Dan Bongino have tried to manage the non release of files around Jeffrey Epstein. And they have tried a variety of different ways to say that they are not releasing these. And it's resulted in incredible, incredible amounts of friction that we're not accustomed to seeing. And it resulted in Dan Bongino, the deputy at the FBI, taking a day off from work, which is not normal either. And I guess the question is, what is the actual situation inside closed doors at the doj? How much friction actually is there within those ranks?
Glenn Thrush (1:55)
Oh, I think there's a tremendous amount of friction. You know, that said, you also have to separate the reality TV element of this because these are these three characters, right? Pam Bondi, Dan Bongino and Cash Patel are creatures of this Trump media ecosphere. So there's a certain amount of kind of posturing and a certain amount of playing social media and trying to outfox each other that way, and, you know, the usual playing up to the boss and, you know, Stephen Miller, who is in many ways kind of running the show.
Sam Stein (2:31)
Okay.
Glenn Thrush (2:31)
On law enforcement. So, so there's, there's an element of that that. You know, the one thing I want to kind of say, which is more of a serious point off the top before we get into some of the shenanigans, is, is the point I just made about Miller, which is these three characters, Patel, Bongino and Bondi, two of them, Patel and Bongino would not have these jobs in any other administration or in any other set of circumstances. Patel has some government experience. He clearly belongs in a West Wing or a White House. And he served on the Hill for. But he had no experience with the FBI. And he's by far the least experienced FBI director in the history of the institution. And Bongino is actually taking it to another level. He has a job called Deputy Director, which I don't expect people to understand, but that is arguably one of the 10 or 12 most important jobs in Washington, D.C. he runs the day to day operations of the Bureau. And that job has always gone to somebody with 10, 20, 30, 40 years experience who have, has risen through the ranks. And Bongino is a podcaster who served as a Secret Service agent. And it's instructive to understand that on the FBI side, these guys are not.