Tim Miller (2:00)

Hey everybody, it's Tim Miller from the Bulwark here last night, late night, I had Mayor Slayer Pete Buttigieg on after our State of the Union live stream was deep into livestream hours in. So we wanted to pull it out here for folks who missed it who decided not to suffer through the Trump speech. I got to ask about a bunch of different stuff. Take questions from you guys. So I'm looking down and getting feedback from our listeners which we really appreciated. Subscribe to the feed in the future if you want me to be pulling out your subscriber questions. So Pete had a bunch to say. It was Pete. It was classic Pete. So stick around for that. Subscribe. We'll see you soon. My main question, you sat there, you witness history. I don't know if you know this. This is the longest State of the Union on record in the history of the Republic. There's never been a longer State of the Union. Why did you watch it?

Pete Buttigieg (2:53)

That's a great question. I guess I can't say that I watched it hoping that I would learn something. I guess I watched it because I'd promised to talk about it on television afterwards. Let me say this. I think the reason a lot of real people watch the State of the Union is they want to know what it's going to mean to them. You imagine I just caught up after bedtime with Chastain. He's putting the kids down at home right now, or he put them down and then he follows along. A lot of people around the country are doing that. You get done with dinner, you put your kids to bed and then you tune in to see if your president can tell you how he's going to make your life better. Especially because this president has made your life worse. Right. A year ago he was promising the costs were going to go down. He has directly driven them up. And it would have been nice to hear some indication of what he was going to do differently this time in order to have different results. But obviously that's not what happened. But I think a lot of people around America, if they were hoping to get some indication of how their everyday lives were going to be better, then they're gonna be disappointed. Cause at most they heard the same empty promises that we're used to from this president.

Tim Miller (3:58)

And don't take this wrong way, I don't wanna minimize you, but I feel like you can relate to the average American. You're kind of an unemployed American now. And so if you didn't have to be on TV or with me after, I feel like you kind of would have turned it off. Right. I mean, it was extremely

Pete Buttigieg (4:17)

great job for AI is to ask it to summarize it for you so you can read it in the morning. Right.

Tim Miller (4:23)

We heard some big news on that. We are going to have a state managed economy now where Trump is going to demand that Trump and the tech oligarchs have a deal. And they are going to make sure to pay for the data centers. And if they don't, Trump's going to come out to them.

Pete Buttigieg (4:37)

I mean, look, I think the AI companies should be doing whatever they got to do to make sure that their data centers don't add to the price. We're all paying for electricity a lot of different ways to make sure that happens. But again, the point is, right now we're paying more for electricity. The president painted this picture that made it sound like the opposite, but we're paying more. Part of why we're paying more is the tariffs have increased the prices of the things that are needed to maintain utility grids. Part of it is that he's killing clean energy projects around the country. So, look, it's not unusual. Everybody knows the president is loose with the truth. Everybody kind of braces for a lot of falsehoods. But in particular tonight, I think what's really striking is we're a year in. I mean, we're now substantially into the second year. All these things he said were gonna get better are getting worse. And it's time for Democrats to come in with a different message. Not just the message that everybody expects, expects to hear from us, which is that this president is making you worse off. But here's what we could do differently. Right now's a great open. I'm glad. The governor, for example, mentioned things like childcare. I don't think the president said a thing about childcare. But, you know, I was just in New Hampshire, had a set of conversations at the YMCA child care facility there about the shocking percentage of people's income that so many people are paying now in order to get childcare. We can talk about that. We can talk about what we're doing to boost wages. We can talk about what we're doing to make everyday life a little bit easier. Healthcare, obviously. These are the kinds of things that I think somebody, whether they're tuning into a State of the Union or just subjecting themselves to political coverage in general, most want to see is, what's this going to do to make me better off?

Tim Miller (6:10)

Yeah. I wonder what you think about how Democrats can effectuate that change in the future and what the tactics are. Here's something that happened this week as an example. Susan Rice, who was with you in the Biden administration, created a stir because she was basically like, look, saying to corporations, hey, you're sucking up to Trump now. You're doing some of these deals now that are off the books, right. That aren't how business as usual works. And if you act inappropriately, we'll come for you next time. So be careful. Do you think that is the right approach or do you think the right approach would be to try to get back, to say, no, we're going to get back to business as usual. You're not going to get bullied by the White House again.

Pete Buttigieg (6:47)

I mean, look, we should make it clear that we're not going to behave. We would never behave the way this White House is. I do think there's a message though that needs to go out to these institutions that have not exact been covering themselves in glory. The companies that have folded, the law firms that folded, the universities that tried to play ball. And it's really just about what's in your own interest. Not because we're out to come and beat you up, but just because of what happens when you fold these guys, which is of course, they always come back for another pound of flesh. What we've seen from the handful of institutions that have stood up is they can get him to back off. Same as I think the lesson of the Indiana Senate Republicans, which is not a group, I definitely at the beginning of last year would never have guessed that that would be one of the groups I would draw inspiration from or point to as an example. But you look at what they did in defying the President's demands on gerrymandering. The thing they figured out was if they all jumped together, they would be okay. And that's why you didn't just see a few defections. A majority of them stood together. If and when companies, universities, media firms, law firms, you name it, are prepared to do that, they themselves will be better off.

Host/Interviewer (7:57)

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Tim Miller (9:15)

The president didn't talk much about affordability. Kind of knocks the idea of affordability. Abigail Spinberger did in the response. I wonder what your take is on this. As somebody who's renowned as a communicator, I feel a little bit nervous that sometimes the Democrats message on affordability feels a little stale. But it's like it's this magic amulet that you say I'm going to make things more affordable. And now that's great. That's a good message because Trump's made things less affordable. But it gets more complicated than that. And that might work for November and this year, but going forward, how do you think Democrats can talk about that issue in contrast with Trump in a way that's credible and connects with people?

Pete Buttigieg (10:00)

Yeah. I mean the comparatively easy part is pointing out how he's made things more unaffordable. Right. So we can and should do that. We are doing that. Whether it's the increase in healthcare premiums because of the Republicans actions or things costing more at the store, all of that, that's kind of table st. But I do think it would be a terrible mistake if we do well in 26 and miss the bigger message, miss the bigger push, which is we need to paint a picture of how this country can be an easier place to live in. Yes. More affordable and also where your hopes and dreams as an American are likely to be fulfilled. The hope of owning a home, by the way, the hope of owning a home before you're 40, which is now the median age of a first time homebuyer. The hope of being able to start a family. It used to be in the 20s and now it's 40. The hope of being able to start a family, which so many people say is their and young people say is their most important hope in life. And you know, obviously conservatives are known for talking more about family. Now's the moment for Democrats to say the biggest thing we can do to be pro family, pro your family, is to have policies that'll make it easier for you to start a family and afford it. That's childcare for sure. That's things like paid Family leave. It's also things like making sure we invest in pre K, invest in schools. Didn't hear a whole lot about public education from the President tonight either. Obviously making sure that.

Tim Miller (11:20)

Didn't you think about ice? Can you believe that? He didn't talk about ice. He talked about the immigrant deaths and stuff, but his mass deportation program he didn't talk about.

Pete Buttigieg (11:28)

Right. I mean, because the American people have already turned on him on it, I think. Yeah. So he did his usual work to try to demonize all immigrants. But he did do one thing which is interesting. It was a lie, of course, but he claimed that he was supporting legal immigration while closing off illegal immigration. That's what most Americans want to see. Right. The important thing, of course, is not only have they gone way, way, way over the top in shutting down illegal immigration and brutalizing undocumented immigrants, but they've also made it basically impossible to be here the right way, whether through asylum, refugee process, or just normal, the normal quotas that I think all of us need to be trued up. Because until we do that, there's this huge yawning gap between the level of immigration our law allows and the level of immigration our economy requires. I think an adult conversation about would be welcome. But it's interesting that he kind of again, is a lie. But it's interesting that he gestured toward that and claimed that was what he was doing. Look, I think he's aware of his vulnerabilities on that and I think he's also, he's kind of aware of the vulnerabilities on corruption too. So obviously telling his story about fraud. And that's the closest he came to acknowledging what's happening in Minnesota.

Tim Miller (12:40)

Minnesota. He pardoned Chris Collins for insider trading, but he does want a law banning insider trading. That's an interesting, you know.

Pete Buttigieg (12:47)

Yeah, I mean, J.D. vance is gonna have a lot of work to do if he's gonna be the new fraud czar.

Tim Miller (12:52)

Right.

Pete Buttigieg (12:52)

I mean, first of all, he's gotta figure out how these guys are getting pardons from the White House, the well known fraudsters. He might have to look into the billion or two or three, or whatever it is that the Trump family has made. I mean, I suppose one charitable way to look at this is given the fraud convictions of the Trump Organization, Trump figured out that he should outsource the investigation of fraud to somebody else in the admin. I'm a little worried about what's in store for JD Vance if he takes that mandate seriously.

Tim Miller (13:23)

A couple listener questions really quick, but first I mentioned earlier that it's important Democrats try to connect with the average American. Gavin Newsom this week was such. They made up such fucking lies about him. Made some bullshit up about how when he was saying that he's just like everybody else because he got a 960 on the satisfaction. And that made me wonder, what you got on the SAT?

Pete Buttigieg (13:47)

Oh, God.

Tim Miller (13:47)

Are you a 1580?

Pete Buttigieg (13:49)

I don't. It was good. I don't remember exactly.

Tim Miller (13:51)

You can't remember your SAT score? No. Is that true?

Pete Buttigieg (13:55)

Yeah.

Tim Miller (13:56)

I bet Chasten knows that.

Pete Buttigieg (13:57)

I have to really think about it.

Tim Miller (13:58)

Okay. We're going to.

Pete Buttigieg (14:00)

Yeah. That whole thing as, you know, like these. I don't know. There's always a kind of a fresh drama of the day. But, you know, I respect a lot of people I've met actually in politics and outside of politics who have found a way through not just hard work, but really original structuring of their thinking to turn dyslexia from a disadvantage into something that's actually part of how they've been empowered to think differently. So I was moved by his story about how he did that. Maybe it didn't come out right in a particular format, but look, as part of somebody's life story, I got nothing but respect, especially in a field as. As verbal and as full of words as politics. Anybody who maneuvers through that and becomes a very effective politician has a ton of respect for me.

Tim Miller (14:52)

Yeah. Classic story, like a fake outrage thing that actually draws attention to something that humanizes them. So I think kind of a backfire there. Okay, really quick. I'll let you go. The listener questions. This is an important one from C. King. What is realistic path for the Congress to end the President declaring war without congressional authorization? That's happening all over the place now. I don't believe that the 2002 Iraq AUMF qualifies for Iran and Venezuela. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm wondering what you think about that.

Pete Buttigieg (15:21)

Great question. I mean, it's kind of a meta question, right? Because it's. How can Congress enforce its own enforcement? For lack of a better way to put it. I mean, look, I think the bottom line here is that Congress, which is led by Republicans, needs to decide whether it's actually prepared to constrain the President, which means not only saying or passing resolutions, but dropping the COVID that they run for him if he is not complying with the law. There's only two. We got three branches. Right. So there's only two other ones to look at. One of them is the courts and the other one is the Congress. Each one pretty rickety in terms of its capability for checks and balances. But the other thing to remember is that if one or both of those branches fail, the ultimate backstop actually is the people. And every time he backs down on matters big and small, whether it was on the original version of the tariffs last year or whether it's. It's on my mind just because I was in New Hampshire where he just backed down on placing this big ICE detention facility. Cuz people stood up. When people stand up in a way that you just cannot ignore and cannot shout down, I think for the big picture stuff, if Congress fails us and the courts fail us, that's actually the ultimate backstop that we have.

Tim Miller (16:34)

Last one from Michael Elder. Will Democrats be ready immediately to make policy to course correct when we retake the government? I like that. What would be the first thing that you'd want Democrats to do and would it be bulldozed? Closing the new East Wing Ballroom.

Pete Buttigieg (16:48)

So we got to learn from them, right? They broke lots of things at once. We should be ready to build lots of things at once. And so looking in the past, it was like, okay, what should our 1 priority be? Then we'll move on to the next priority. We're not going to have time for that. We got to do major structural and institutional reform, get it underway on all the unsexy but super important stuff like tackling money in politics, dealing with making Congress more representative, less corrupt, and at the same time, take the big policy swings and show people that we're working for them by actually delivering better health care and more affordable childcare and all of the things that we care about as Democrats. I think it's going to be really important. There's not a lot I want to emulate out of this White House, but one thing they definitely do is lots of things at once. Aim big and do lots of things at once. We should be prepared to do the exact same. Same in different ways, obviously.

Tim Miller (17:43)

Yeah, sure. You can actually do things. All right. Thank you for staying up. Sorry for the difficulties.

Pete Buttigieg (17:47)

Oh, good.

Tim Miller (17:47)

Terry, Mayor, slayer, Father Pete, Buddha, judge. We'll be talking to you soon. All right, brother.

Pete Buttigieg (17:51)

Take care. Thanks.

Narrator/Announcer (17:53)

We're lost. I'm going to pull over and ask that man for directions.

Host/Interviewer (17:57)

Hi there.

Narrator/Announcer (17:58)

We're looking to get to the campground.

T-Mobile Representative (18:00)

Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

Narrator/Announcer (18:05)

How are you getting a signal out here?

T-Mobile Representative (18:07)

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

Narrator/Announcer (18:18)

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

T-Mobile Advertiser (18:22)

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Pete Buttigieg (18:24)

Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out.

Tim Miller (18:29)

Plus our five year price guarantee.

Pete Buttigieg (18:31)

And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

T-Mobile Advertiser (18:37)

Best mobile network Based on analysis by Ookle of Speedtest Intelligence data at 2H2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee. On talk, text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.

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Tim Miller (19:28)

Hi there.

Narrator/Announcer (19:28)

We're looking to get to the campground.

T-Mobile Representative (19:30)

Well, you're going to take a left at the old oak tree end of this here road. No, I'm just kidding. Let me get my phone out.

Narrator/Announcer (19:36)

How are you getting a signal out here?

T-Mobile Representative (19:37)

T Mobile and US Cellular decided to merge. So the network out here is huge. We're getting the same great signal as the city and saving a boatload with all the benefits. Oh, and a five year price guarantee. Okay, here's those directions.

Narrator/Announcer (19:49)

Actually, can you point us in the direction of a T Mobile store?

Pete Buttigieg (19:52)

American best network just got bigger. Switch to T Mobile today and get built in benefits the other guys leave out.

Tim Miller (19:59)

Plus our five year price guarantee.

Pete Buttigieg (20:02)

And now T Mobile is available in US Cellular stores.

T-Mobile Advertiser (20:08)

Best mobile network based on analysis by Oogle of speed test intelligence data 2H 2025 bigger network. The combination of T Mobile's and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage price guarantee. On talk, text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. See t mobile.com for details.