Pete Buttigieg TORCHES Host Over Trump Economy Spin

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – Pete Buttigieg TORCHES Host Over Trump Economy Spin (April 11, 2026)

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Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes features host Tim Miller breaking down Pete Buttigieg’s standout appearance on CNBC’s Squawk Box, where Buttigieg went head-to-head with co-host Joe Kernan over the Trump administration’s handling of the economy and the ongoing war in Iran. The episode dissects the exchange, highlighting Buttigieg’s arguments, the weaknesses in the Trump defense, and the broader implications for Democrats entering more adversarial media spaces.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Pete Buttigieg’s Approach and the Setting

• Buttigieg's Debate Skills: Tim Miller lauds Buttigieg for taking strong, clear stances in a traditionally adversarial setting, describing him as “Slayer Pete” and calling for more Democrats to follow his lead by entering challenging spaces.
  • “Democrats need to be going into more challenging spaces. Something that I’m trying to do myself, but that I like, that you need actual Democratic politicians doing.” (02:16, Tim Miller)
• Squawk Box Context: The program is likened to the “Fox & Friends of CNBC” but with a more mixed ideological panel. Joe Kernan is identified as the main right-leaning voice.

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2. Debate over the War in Iran

• Service and Credibility: Buttigieg pushes back strongly against accusations that critiques of the war equate to not supporting the troops, leveraging his own military service for authority.
  • “Fuck you. I was a soldier. I was a trip. I know what it’s like to go over there. And I wouldn’t have wanted to be sent to a war zone for something where the leadership in charge didn’t have a plan for success...” (03:44, Tim Miller paraphrasing Buttigieg)
• Lack of Rationale: Buttigieg emphasizes the absence of a coherent strategy or rationale for the ongoing conflict, warning of economic and geopolitical consequences.
  • “America succeeding means not starting dumbass wars that make Us weaker economically and geopolitically alienate our foes.” (04:28, Tim Miller)
• Kernan’s Refrain: Kernan reverts to patriotic tropes (supporting troops, need to win), which Miller and Buttigieg argue no longer resonate in the current climate.

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3. The Economy and Inflation Debate

(05:01–10:40)

• Impact of the War on Gas Prices: Buttigieg draws a direct line from the conflict to spikes in gas and fuel prices, expressing concern for average Americans struggling with affordability.
  • “I want to make sure that this ends in a way that, first of all, our economy can recover, that we're not paying so much for gas.” (05:07, Pete Buttigieg)
• Squabbling Over Inflation Data: Kernan and Buttigieg spar over inflation statistics, with Buttigieg pointing out that Trump’s promise to reduce inflation repeatedly failed.
  • "His central campaign promise was he was going to take inflation and drive it down. And instead he’s not.” (08:06, Pete Buttigieg)
  • "Listen to me, period. Why did the president fail, fail to keep his promise to lower prices?" (08:35, Pete Buttigieg)
• Andrew Ross Sorkin’s Objectivity: Sorkin steps in to reinforce that, regardless of political spin, the core economic numbers are unfavorable for Trump.
  • “The president did say that he was, he wanted to be in office to bring inflation down, and he has not brought inflation down.” (07:23, Andrew Ross Sorkin)

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4. Weakness of the Trump Defense

• Desperation in Defending Trump’s Record: Miller notes Kernan’s increasingly agitated tone and insubstantial arguments, saying the Trump camp is “running out of ammo.”
  • “The funniest part is just like the desperate, angry Kernan with like caked on makeup...democrats own the affordability crisis. Democrats own it. It’s just like...nobody believes this. Who believes this anymore?” (09:35–09:55, Tim Miller)
• Appeal to Partisan Loyalty vs. Broader Voters: Miller argues that Trump defenders' “cult” mentality isn’t persuasive to anyone outside their base anymore.
  • “In order to win over people who aren't in your cult, you have to have a explanation for them or a message or a plan. And so just like the Democrats did this all in 2022, it's like, sorry, bro, that's not, that's not going to work.” (10:25–10:40, Tim Miller)

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5. On Public Opinion and Accountability

• War Approval and American Discontent: Buttigieg claims most Americans, including some MAGA voters, disapprove of the war and the president, countering Kernan’s invocation of party approval numbers.
  • “It’s a matter of opinion that I share with most of the Americans and a large number of Republicans and a whole bunch of MAGA people who bought into this president because they actually believe...” (12:23, Pete Buttigieg)
• Voter Sentiment on the Ground: Buttigieg relays having seen shifting attitudes even in strong Trump districts, suggesting an opening for Democrats.

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6. Advice for Democrats and Moderates

• How to Engage: Miller encourages listeners to “softly” and kindly engage persuadable friends, since the Trump camp is visibly losing the “ammunition” to respond.
  • “It's a good time to engage with people because they're. They're out of. They're running out of ammo. And...that's a delicious treat.” (15:52–16:02, Tim Miller)

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7. Affordability & Corruption as Election Messaging

• Buttigieg’s Closing Argument: Buttigieg pivots to focus on corruption and “who benefits”—contrasting ordinary Americans’ struggles with the enrichment of Trump and his wealthy associates.
  • “But usually they make difficult decisions to try to make other people better off. This president’s made decisions to make himself better off. That’s definitely happened. If you’re the kind of person who can pay a million bucks for the entry fee to Mar A Lago, then you’re doing great. But everybody else is hurting right now, and that’s it.” (16:15, Pete Buttigieg)
• Miller’s Endorsement: Miller asserts this is a compelling, relatable message for voters and urges more Democrats to embrace it.
  • "On top of the fact that people's lives are worse, you know who's still making money? Trump his family. You know, people that can pay the Mar A Lago dues, they're making bank. Well, everybody else is fucking paying $6 gas out in Fresno." (16:32, Tim Miller)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Military Service as Credibility:
  "Fuck you. I was a soldier. I was a trip. I know what it’s like to go over there." (03:44, Tim Miller paraphrasing Buttigieg)

• On Gas Prices and Economic Pain:
  "I want to make sure that this ends in a way that, first of all, our economy can recover, that we're not paying so much for gas." (05:07, Pete Buttigieg)

• On Affordability and Corruption:
  "This president's made decisions to make himself better off...If you’re the kind of person who can pay a million bucks for the entry fee to Mar A Lago, then you’re doing great. But everybody else is hurting right now, and that’s it." (16:15, Pete Buttigieg)

• On Political Messaging:
  "In order to win over people who aren't in your cult, you have to have a explanation for them or a message or a plan." (10:25, Tim Miller)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:41–04:55]: Buttigieg rebuts war justifications using military service and strategic rationale
• [05:01–10:40]: Spirited debate over inflation and economic pain, with Sorkin’s “math is the math” intervention
• [12:09–14:40]: Public opinion on the war, Buttigieg’s arguments about who bears the costs
• [16:12–16:54]: Buttigieg’s closing argument on affordability and corruption

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Summary Takeaway

"Slayer Pete" demonstrates how to counter weak Trump-era economic and foreign policy arguments in adversarial forums, persistently redirecting the conversation to kitchen-table concerns and the corrupt enrichment of the powerful. Tim Miller urges Democrats to follow Buttigieg’s example, to confidently enter tough spaces, and to offer relatable, credible messages as the vulnerabilities of the Trump camp become increasingly obvious.

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Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

Hey y'. All, Tim Miller from the Bulwark here. I woke up on the west coast to just you love it when you

[Podcast Co-host]

take out your phone and there's something that brings you joy in the morning that's so rare these days, that's so often that you're doom scrolling. And I like to joy scroll. And that happened for me because Slayer Pete Buttigieg was on CNBC's Squawk Box.

[Tim Miller]

If you don't know that show, it's

[Podcast Co-host]

the morning financial show.

[Tim Miller]

It's kind of like the Fox and Friends of cnbc. And you know, it's not, it's not

[Podcast Co-host]

like Fox and Friends in the sense that it's all right wingers. There is a single person that kind

[Tim Miller]

of reflects the doocy view on Squonk Box.

[Podcast Co-host]

His name is Joe Kernan. He and Pete got into it on the state of the economy, the war

[Tim Miller]

in Iran, and it was delicious.

[Podcast Co-host]

I've already on social media offered to

[Tim Miller]

welcome both of them to the Bulwark

[Podcast Co-host]

YouTube page where hopefully they could do a longer version. Like I want to see. I want to see like a Joe

[Tim Miller]

Rogan podcast length engagement between Kernan and Buttigieg. Give me three hours, I can host it.

[Podcast Co-host]

I'll just kind of just fade into the background and let them go. Just kind of direct the conversation. We'll see if they take me up on that.

[Tim Miller]

But if you have not had this joy yet, or even if you had

[Podcast Co-host]

already and just want a second helping, I figured we should go through some of the highlights of Pete showing how you do it when you know you're arguing with somebody that's trying their best to rationalize their support of Donald Trump and maga. Just really quick, before we go into it, please subscribe to the feed. Help us out here. We're trying to get up to 2 million subscribers.

[Tim Miller]

And also, like, part of the reason

[Podcast Co-host]

why I'm showing this is I've been

[Tim Miller]

on this like the Democrats in this moment. Donald Trump is Vulnerable.

[Podcast Co-host]

The arguments of people on his side

[Tim Miller]

are as weak as they've ever been.

[Podcast Co-host]

The Democrats need to be going into more challenging spaces. Something that I'm trying to do myself, but that I like, that you need actual Democratic politicians doing. And so I want to, you know, give out candy to the ones who are doing it right. And Pete is obviously, like, the prime example of this. So let's watch this together. We'll play some of the highlights from Pete and Joe Kernan.

[Joe Kernan]

I understand that.

[Pete Buttigieg]

And look, I'm saying this to somebody who knows what it's like to be sent to war by a US President. And when a president sends you to war, when you and your buddies are on that gray tail plane going into a war zone, you do it with some level of confidence, some level of assurance that your chain of command. All the president of the United States.

[Joe Kernan]

Doesn't even sound like this. Now that we're there, do you hope this has a successful outcome? There were 40,000 Iranians that were slaughtered by the same regime. 47 years of killing Americans, stirring trouble all around the world.

[Pete Buttigieg]

And how do you feel about that regime being left intact by this president?

[Joe Kernan]

Be the case. And I don't know what might happen.

[Tim Miller]

All right, so, like, right before this clip, just to give you guys the

[Podcast Co-host]

context, like, Pete is making the case against the war and why it's stupid. And Kernan is trying to interject and do the thing that these guys do, which is like, oh, you're rooting against

[Tim Miller]

the country like, you want us to. Like, our soldiers are so good. Why don't you respect the troops and the soldiers? And Pete's like, fuck you. I was a soldier. I was a trip.

[Podcast Co-host]

I know what it's like to go over there.

[Tim Miller]

And I wouldn't have wanted to be sent to a war zone for something where the leadership in charge didn't have a plan for success or didn't have a clear rationale for doing it or hadn't thought through some of the obvious contingencies, like the closing of the Strait of Hormuz. This is obvious. And so I think Pete, like, having

[Podcast Co-host]

credibility there is very important. I think it's pretty telling that Kernan, like, falls back on this. Like, don't you want us to succeed?

[Tim Miller]

Don't you want America to succeed? You know, like Pete's counter.

[Podcast Co-host]

That is pretty good. It was just like, well, like, we haven't succeeded. The regime is still intact.

[Tim Miller]

I would kind of add on on top of that.

[Podcast Co-host]

Like, yeah, America succeeding means not starting dumbass wars that make Us weaker economically and geopolitically alienate our foes. Like, you know, that is this is not the path to success. Like, this is the path to fucking ruin. Like, yeah, I want America to succeed. Don't you want America to succeed? If you want America to succeed, why are you on board with this stupid fucking war anyway? Let's. The conversation pivots then more to what

[Tim Miller]

you expect them to be talking about

[Podcast Co-host]

on a morning finance show, which is the state of the economy. So let's watch some of that for.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Is that an argument?

[Joe Kernan]

So you don't want this to work and it was just a bad move. You want us to pull out now?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Look, there's no obvious way out now, but I want to make sure that this ends in a way that, first of all, our economy can recover, that we're not paying so much for gas. I mean, right now, oil's 100 bucks. Jet fuels 200 bucks. Gas is over four bucks.

[Joe Kernan]

Diesel's like average 380. Under Biden for four years.

[Pete Buttigieg]

And. And when we left, inflation was lower than it is today.

[Joe Kernan]

You accounted for 21. President pricing. This president took inflation rate, inflation.

[Pete Buttigieg]

This president more than 3% year on year. You saw the numbers just come out. It's more than 3% year on year.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay, it is. The math is directly month from 2, 7 to 3%.

[Pete Buttigieg]

It's higher than when he got here.

[Joe Kernan]

It's not 9%.

[Tim Miller]

So Pete begins by talking about the

[Podcast Co-host]

impact of the war on, on gas prices and, and, you know, the impact on people domestically. And like, that is significant. I mean, gas prices are getting expensive in Louisiana, but damn, I'm here in California and it's like, I don't even know how people who are on out, like, I don't know how working people afford this. I don't know how you afford this. If you have a kind of hourly pay job or if you're on a fixed income as a senior. Like, how do you go places? The gas is already that expensive. And it's only going to get worse.

[Tim Miller]

I call it.

[Podcast Co-host]

Catherine Rampel pointed out today that gas prices rose 20% in March in the higher month. This is the single largest monthly increase in gas prices since we began measuring it. The biggest gas price increase since we've been measuring it last month, March, and it's getting worse. And Kernan's response is, well, gas was also expensive under Biden.

[Tim Miller]

Like, okay, bro, all right, what about now?

[Podcast Co-host]

What about what we're doing now, Pete? And then go kind of back and forth and they have this kind of crosstalk fight over the inflation numbers. And at the end, Andrew Roth Sorkin, who, if you don't know him, is totally, really down the middle, smart economics reporter, is just like, dude, this is just the math. Like, the math is the math. Inflation is up.

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

This piece of it is basic. The president did say that he was, he wanted to be in office to bring inflation down, and he has not brought inflation down.

[Pete Buttigieg]

That's all.

[Podcast Co-host]

It's not just that, like Trump hasn't brought prices down. It's like the rate of increase now is up from where it was when Biden left. So I don't know. I mean, some of this stuff, you get into dorky econ talk and it feels like they could have been on an AEI panel hashing this out. Like, I'm not sure this is the most resonant thing with voters, most resident part of the exchange. But like, it's pretty funny that that is like the position of Kernan is so weak, the position of the Trump defenders in the economy is so weak now that like they, they really are forced to resort to.

[Tim Miller]

But what about 2022?

[Podcast Co-host]

It's like, well, we'll see how that works.

[Pete Buttigieg]

And his central campaign promise was he was going to take inflation and drive it down. And instead he's not.

[Joe Kernan]

I thought in the, it was three

[Pete Buttigieg]

when he got here and now it's more, it could not be simpler than that.

[Joe Kernan]

It's around three and we're involved in a war.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Said on day one it would go down. He came in on day one and now it's up.

[Joe Kernan]

It's up to 3%. It was 21 and a half percent priced. It would go down four years. Over four years. It was 21 and a half. Democrats own the affordability.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Listen to me, period. Why did the president fail?

[Joe Kernan]

You don't think Democrats own the affordability crisis?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Why did the president fail, fail to keep his promise to lower prices, in your opinion?

[Andrew Ross Sorkin]

I'm laughing because this is, this, this piece of it is basic. The president did say that he was, he wanted to be in office to bring inflation down, and he has not brought inflation down.

[Pete Buttigieg]

That's all. He drove it up. He not only failed, he drove it up. Mr. Secretary, let's talk.

[Joe Kernan]

Have had a minimal. A minimal.

[Pete Buttigieg]

You tell a family where I live that $1,000 per household is minimal from

[Joe Kernan]

the 21 1/2% increase that you're the Democrats.

[Pete Buttigieg]

We can, we can argue all day about just how bad Covid was and how bad it got and what.

[Joe Kernan]

Okay.

[Pete Buttigieg]

And all that you call, unless where I live, a thousand bucks per household isn't minimal.

[Joe Kernan]

Now you found. Now Democrats found religion on inflation after presiding over the worst inflation in 40 years. Now you found it's 2026.

[Pete Buttigieg]

They're in charge. You guys are in charge. I'm aware you're going to do differently, all right?

[Podcast Co-host]

I mean, Pete does the job here.

[Tim Miller]

But like, the funniest part is, the

[Podcast Co-host]

funniest part is just like the desperate, angry Kernan with like caked on makeup

[Tim Miller]

on his face being like, democrats own the affordability crisis. Democrats own it. It's just like, man, like a year ago I would have been annoyed by that. Six months ago I might have been

[Podcast Co-host]

kind of mad about it. And we have to fight on this. We gotta argue. She's like, nobody believes this. Who believes this anymore? Like, only people that are full in the cult and have. And that the Democrats have no chance of ever winning over. Right? Like there's some percentage of Americans that Democrats will never win over. And so those people might be able to soothe themselves and suck on their thumb by being like, the Democrats own this because of what happened after Covid four years ago. But that just isn't how politics works.

[Tim Miller]

Like, in order to, to win over

[Podcast Co-host]

people who aren't in your cult, you have to have a explanation for them or a message or a plan. And so just like the Democrats did this all in 2022, it's like, sorry, bro, that's not, that's not going to work.

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[Tim Miller]

All right, and then we circle back

[Podcast Co-host]

to kind of the public opinion part of this. And, and, and whether Kernan's arguments are working. Let's listen to that.

[Joe Kernan]

We gotta get through this war. And you've heard people get through this war.

[Pete Buttigieg]

We didn't have to be fighting this war. What are we doing?

[Joe Kernan]

That's a matter of opinion. You can't say that.

[Pete Buttigieg]

It's a matter of opinion that I share with most of the Americans and a large number of Republicans and a whole bunch of MAGA people who bought into this president because they actually believe

[Joe Kernan]

75% Republican approval for the war.

[Pete Buttigieg]

You don't start with the approval you have within your own party. But the point is, the magical Democrats

[Joe Kernan]

aren't going to approve anything.

[Pete Buttigieg]

I'm talking about Americans. Americans disapprove of the president and their right to do so.

[Joe Kernan]

He's got the same approval rating other presidents have had at this point in the term for a little bit above 42% right now.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Is unpopular for very good reasons, one of which is no more than Obama

[Joe Kernan]

was or Biden was at the same term at the same point of his presidency.

[Pete Buttigieg]

That depends on which polls you're looking at. But by and large, no. I'm sorry, but like, I've been out on the trail. I was in Marjorie Taylor Greene's district. Marjorie Taylor Greene. This is a Trump +38 district. Or it was.

[Joe Kernan]

I've seen 500 people. You'll get a chance to prove that in November this year.

[Pete Buttigieg]

We had a chance to prove it last week.

[Joe Kernan]

The Senate might go. I understand.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah. Because people are presidents.

[Tim Miller]

My favorite part about that clip is Pete just going back at him with, we didn't have to be fighting this war. And Joe's like, we got to get through this war. He's like, we didn't have to be fighting it. You can't. You can't do that. Like that. Like, this doesn't work now. Like, this. This shit worked in the first Bush

[Podcast Co-host]

term with the Iraq war. Like, it stopped working in the second Bush term. This idea that, like, we've got to stand with our men and women in uniform and we got to get through the war and win.

[Tim Miller]

It's like, nobody knows how we're fighting the war. There was no 9, 11. There was no imminent threat. There was no case made by the president. It's like you started a war that nobody knows why. It was a stupid war. It hasn't been a success. And everybody's feeling pain now. And your message is, well, we got

[Podcast Co-host]

to get through the war.

[Tim Miller]

You got to deal with the pain. You got to suck it up. I just. The body language between Pete and Curtin in this section is just so telling. Like, Pete is, like, a little bit

[Podcast Co-host]

exacerbated, but also laughing and. And. And like always, just very sharp on his points. And Kernan is just huffing and puffing and. And, you know, getting redder. And his body.

[Tim Miller]

You can feel.

[Podcast Co-host]

See him tensing. He's tensing. And.

[Tim Miller]

And it's just because they're.

[Podcast Co-host]

They don't have it.

[Tim Miller]

Like, the points are weak.

[Podcast Co-host]

They got no case to make.

[Tim Miller]

So, long story short, this isn't your moment to go pick a fight with your MAGA friend.

[Podcast Co-host]

That's never going to come around.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, I'm not saying that, but it is a point for Democrats, for commentators like myself, and for you and your life. If you have people that you think are gettable, you think are reasonable, kindly,

[Podcast Co-host]

softly beginning to engage them in these conversations may be useful.

[Tim Miller]

Might be a transition period.

[Podcast Co-host]

We're in.

[Tim Miller]

You know, I went on a barstool podcast earlier this week, and there's one

[Podcast Co-host]

Republican guy on there and then one, like, really left guy, and then another guy.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know if.

[Podcast Co-host]

I don't know if he actually says

[Tim Miller]

those politics are, but seems like, like, pretty Democrat.

[Podcast Co-host]

And.

[Tim Miller]

And the Republican guy, I was just kind of.

[Podcast Co-host]

I didn't go at him like, I'm on the Piers Morgan show, like, screaming at these, like, hack pundits.

[Tim Miller]

Like, you know, he's a sports guy

[Podcast Co-host]

and he's just a Republican.

[Tim Miller]

And Sidis was, like, softly, like, asking

[Podcast Co-host]

some questions, like, what do you.

[Tim Miller]

What.

[Podcast Co-host]

What do you like about what's happening?

[Tim Miller]

Like, what do you think would have been worse from Kamala?

[Podcast Co-host]

Like, isn't the impact.

[Tim Miller]

Isn't economic impact?

[Podcast Co-host]

Like, not worth what we're getting out of the Actions of the Middle east,

[Tim Miller]

just that kind of stuff.

[Podcast Co-host]

It's a good time to engage with people because they're. They're out of. They're running out of ammo. And.

[Tim Miller]

And that's a delicious treat.

[Podcast Co-host]

All right, one more. Last one. Pete ends with a really strong message on affordability and corruption. That is something that I've been desperate for, for Democrats to really pound. So let's watch that.

[Joe Kernan]

Presidents make difficult decisions, obviously.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah. But usually they make difficult decisions to try to make other people better off. This president's made decisions to make himself better off. That's definitely happened. If you're the kind of person who can pay a million bucks for the entry fee to Mar A Lago, then you're doing great. But everybody else is hurting right now, and that's it.

[Tim Miller]

Like, on top of the fact that people's lives are worse, you know who's still making money? Trump his family. You know, people that can pay the Mar A Lago dues, they're making bank. Well, everybody else is fucking paying $6

[Podcast Co-host]

gas out in Fresno.

[Tim Miller]

All right?

[Podcast Co-host]

So

[Tim Miller]

that is compelling.

[Podcast Co-host]

It's something that the people understand. And as usual, Slayer Pete is nailing it. So I hope you enjoyed it. My colleagues will be all around this weekend. We have that big election in Hungary coming up on Sunday, which will be coming. Covering. I'm on a brief vacation. I'll be back on the feed on Tuesday. So we'll see you all then.

[Tim Miller]

Like I said, subscribe. Heck of a job, Mayor Pete.

[Podcast Co-host]

See ya.

[Tim Miller]

Bye.