Bulwark Takes: “Pope Francis Was Everything MAGA Isn’t” – Detailed Summary

Release Date: April 21, 2025

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller and congressional correspondent Joe Perdicone delve into the sudden death of Pope Francis, exploring its impact on both the Catholic community and the broader political landscape. The discussion intertwines personal anecdotes, political analysis, and reflections on Pope Francis's legacy, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners unfamiliar with the event.

1. Announcement of Pope Francis’s Death

Tim Miller opens the episode by breaking the poignant news:

[00:00] Tim Miller: “Pope Francis died this morning on Easter Monday. Born Jorge Bergoglio, he was the first Jesuit pope. Shout out to the Jesuits. First Latin American pope.”

Miller introduces Joe Perdicone, who is in Rome for his wedding, highlighting the juxtaposition of life celebrations amidst national mourning.

2. Initial Reactions and Personal Impact

Joe Perdicone shares his emotional response to the news:

[00:23] Joe Perdicone: “I'm very sad, but very happy because it's my wedding. But then the sadness of learning about the death of Pope Francis, someone who I admire greatly, was a big shock... it was like kind of a shocking moment, but it was very powerful.”

Perdicone recounts arriving near the Vatican shortly after hearing the news, describing the sudden surge of mourners:

[00:23 - 01:45] Joe Perdicone: “Most of the people there didn't appear to know... People start seeing people tear up a bit. Suddenly, what was five people behind me was hundreds, thousands... a sea of people just walking over to pay their respects.”

3. The Mood in St. Peter’s Square

Tim Miller probes deeper into the atmosphere during the announcement:

[01:45] Tim Miller: “What was the mood like in the square?”

Joe Perdicone explains the unexpected nature of the Pope’s passing:

[02:11] Joe Perdicone: “There was a lot of shock because he had been sick for a long time, but he had really looked like he turned the corner... The abruptness and especially the morning After Easter made it very sudden.”

He notes the timing during pasc, a national holiday in Italy, which contributed to the initial lack of widespread awareness.

4. Political Context: J.D. Vance and the Vatican

Transitioning to political implications, Tim Miller introduces a discussion about Vice President J.D. Vance:

[03:17] Tim Miller: “We have to at least do the brief on the rank politics of Our Vice President J.D. Vance... If you have any elderly in your life, probably keep them away from JD Vance.”

Joe Perdicone elaborates on Vance’s brief meeting with Pope Francis:

[03:44] Joe Perdicone: “Vance converted to Catholicism just a handful of years ago... Pope Francis gave Vance a very brief meeting... photos show a cordial exchange, but politically, their views differ greatly.”

He highlights Pope Francis's critical remarks towards Western and U.S. policies:

[03:44 - 06:49] Joe Perdicone: “He said, today’s builders of Babel tell us that there is no room for losers... an obvious critique of right-wing governments...”

5. Pope Francis’s Legacy and Political Stances

Miller references an obituary from The Pillar to contextualize Francis's legacy:

[06:49] Tim Miller: “...Francis was not like the radical left pope... he focused more on the poor and his image.”

Joe Perdicone discusses Francis's inclusive yet doctrinally conservative approach:

[09:00] Joe Perdicone: “Pope Francis visits a prison... symbolizing his care for the marginalized... contrasts sharply with Republican actions like Riley Moore’s thumbs-up at El Salvador’s torture prison.”

He underscores Francis's commitment to poverty and compassion without altering core Church doctrines:

[10:31] Joe Perdicone: “He made this a more inclusive for, you know, the worshipper... what affects the most people.”

6. American Catholic Church and Political Divides

Tim Miller observes the rise of conservative elements within the American Catholic Church:

[06:49 - 09:00] Tim Miller: “There are conservatives like Archbishop in Denver, pro-Trump... but that's not how Francis is seen.”

Joe Perdicone reflects on Francis's influence on the College of Cardinals and the potential direction for the Church:

[03:44 - 06:49] Joe Perdicone: “He remade the College of Cardinals... prioritize the poor and migrants... continuation of his style is likely.”

7. Pope Francis’s Actions Reflective of His Values

Joe Perdicone shares personal anecdotes inspired by Francis’s teachings:

[10:31 - 11:34] Joe Perdicone: “When you give money to the poor... make eye contact with them... I gave a homeless man $10 and looked him in the eye... changing the way you view the most vulnerable.”

He emphasizes the Pope’s message of decency in a challenging era:

[11:34 - 12:11] Joe Perdicone: “This was a very decent man in a very indecent period in history.”

8. Funeral Preparations and the Jubilee

Tim Miller inquires about the funeral arrangements:

[12:11] Tim Miller: “Did you get to hear the bells? Were the bells tolling at the St. Peter's Basilica?”

Joe Perdicone provides details on the ongoing and upcoming events:

[12:31] Joe Perdicone: “Bells were tolling throughout the morning... heading back later for the lay-out... Now it’s the Jubilee, a 25-year pilgrimage period... expecting much larger crowds.”

The Jubilee’s significance underscores the global Catholic community’s engagement during this period.

9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Tim Miller wraps up the discussion by highlighting the continued political tensions and the importance of subscribing to the podcast for ongoing coverage:

[13:42] Tim Miller: “Subscribe to the feed. We got a man in Rome. The least you can do is subscribe to the feed.”

Joe Perdicone is encouraged to provide updates from the funeral, ensuring listeners remain informed on the unfolding events.

Notable Quotes

• Joe Perdicone [03:44]: “Today's builders of Babel tell us that there is no room for losers and that those who fall along the way are losers. Theirs is the construction site of hell.”

• Joe Perdicone [10:31]: “When you give money to the poor, don't just drop a coin in their cup and keep walking. Stop and make eye contact with them.”

• Joe Perdicone [11:34]: “This was a very decent man in a very indecent period in history.”

Key Insights

• Pope Francis’s Legacy: A compassionate leader focused on the marginalized, maintaining doctrinal conservatism while advocating for inclusivity and social justice.

• Political Tensions: The Pope’s death highlights the stark contrasts between his progressive stances and the rising conservative elements within the American Catholic Church, exemplified by figures like J.D. Vance.

• Global Impact: The Jubilee amplifies the global Catholic community’s engagement, underscoring Pope Francis’s enduring influence and the anticipation surrounding his successor.

• Personal Reflections: The discussions emphasize the Pope’s teachings on empathy and personal connection, resonating with listeners on both a spiritual and humanitarian level.

This episode of Bulwark Takes offers a nuanced exploration of Pope Francis’s impact, the immediate reactions to his passing, and the broader implications for the Catholic Church and American politics. Through insightful dialogue and real-time observations from Rome, Tim Miller and Joe Perdicone provide a comprehensive narrative that informs and engages listeners, highlighting the enduring legacy of a transformative papacy.