Bulwark Takes — “Raja to Trump: Stop Building Ballrooms and Reopen the Government!”

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: Sam Stein (The Bulwark)
Guest: Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL, 8th District)
Date: October 30, 2025

Episode Overview

In this special edition of Bulwark Takes, Sam Stein sits down with Illinois Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi for a candid conversation on some of the most urgent political flashpoints: the ICE/Border Patrol standoffs erupting in and around Chicago, Congressional impotence during the government shutdown, the precarious state of US-China relations, looming social safety net “cliffs,” and the tit-for-tat redistricting battles across states. With both humor and gravity, Krishnamoorthi offers an inside look at governmental breakdowns—and what’s at stake for everyday Americans.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. ICE Operations and Community Tension in Illinois

Timestamps: [01:11]–[09:17]

• Unprecedented Incidents: Krishnamoorthi details incidents where ICE agents have used excessive force in his district, including a US citizen “snatched” from her car, tackled, and detained until she could show proof of citizenship.
  • “They actually snatched a US citizen 18 year old woman from her car, tackled her to the ground... put his knee on her neck... She’s basically saying she’s a US Citizen, they took her away, her parents don’t know where she is for hours.” (Krishnamoorthi, [02:16])
• Overreach and Unaccountability: ICE has refused lawful Congressional oversight access, with Krishnamoorthi citing a specific Appropriations law (Section 527) that's being ignored.
  • “He formally refused access and gave me the talk to the hand type of gesture, which is frustrating and it’s illegal. We’re going to take further measures in accordance with what happened.” ([04:08])
• Litigation and Oversight: Combination of lawsuits, shining public light, and bipartisan legislative strategies pursued. Litigation is ongoing, and a US district judge is demanding daily updates from ICE.
• Republican Perspectives: Some GOP colleagues are quietly discomforted, especially those with agricultural constituencies. ICE raids are disrupting farm labor during harvest season.
  • "[Republicans] are quiet, but discomforted. You can see this, especially… representing agricultural areas, because it’s affecting people showing up to pick crops."; (Krishnamoorthi, [07:05])
• Racist Rhetoric and Politics: Krishnamoorthi shares personal attacks from a Florida official, who called for deportations based on Indian origin.
  • "This Florida lawmaker... said to deport every Indian or every Indian origin person. I then called him out on his racist speech and he came back at me... called me a foreign occupier, said my name is unpronounceable, and then said I was from the planet Tatooine." ([08:14])
  • His response: "Just call me Raja and I’ll just call you racist."

2. US-China Relations and Economic Security

Timestamps: [11:01]–[15:19]

• Instability and Risks: The US-China relationship is at an unstable and possibly dangerous stage, with reduced deterrence potentially inviting Chinese “aggression” in trade, security, and technology.
  • “When you lower your deterrence, you invite aggression, and that could lead to conflict. My fear... is that because of... showing our weaknesses, we are going to actually heighten the possibility of conflict.” ([11:38])
• Negotiation Sticking Points:
  • China wants relaxed semiconductor export controls and U.S. concessions on Taiwan.
  • The U.S. seeks end to Chinese economic dumping, stricter controls on fentanyl precursor shipments, and crackdowns on illegal economic practices.
• Economic Leverage: The U.S. still has powerful cards, notably market access.
  • "We have a lot of cards to play, including market access. And I think that is something I hope the President uses to our advantage."
• Need for Allies: Imposing tariffs on all imports is counterproductive; unified efforts with allies are preferable.
  • “Leviying tariffs on everything from everywhere only leads to two outcomes: one is higher prices for everyone… two, it reduces our leverage to get our friends, partners and allies to isolate the Chinese.” ([14:04])
  • Push for a “Trans Pacific Partnership” style coalition to balance China.

3. Congressional Inaction & The Government Shutdown

Timestamps: [15:19]–[20:15]

• Life during Shutdown: With the House not in session for ~40 days, Krishnamoorthi is focused on constituent services and public advocacy.
  • “Yesterday we just actually did a press conference... our office is open for business... we just announced that we’ve closed 14,000 cases.” ([16:09])
• The Double Cliff — SNAP & Obamacare Credits:
  • SNAP (food stamps) and Affordable Care Act subsidies are days from expiring, risking widespread hardship.
  • Notices for higher health care premiums are already being sent to millions.
  • Most affected are in red districts, which may motivate Republican action.
• Surprising Alliances: Bipartisanship is blooming in unexpected places (including with Marjorie Taylor Greene) over the urgency of protecting ACA subsidies and revealing the Epstein files.
  • "I've actually been working with her [Greene] on the Epstein files issue... there can be some bipartisanship even now, despite the state of affairs." ([18:53])
• Call for GOP Pressure on Trump:
  • “Stop building a golden ballroom and let's start opening the government. Let’s work together on this issue.” ([20:01])

4. Redistricting Arms Race

Timestamps: [20:15]–[23:10]

• Tense Waiting Game: Illinois considers neutralizing Republican-led gerrymanders with their own, but so far is reluctant to act unilaterally.
  • “If certain other states go down the road of redrawing their districts, I think that Illinois won’t have a choice.” ([20:45])
• Nationwide Domino Effect: GOP efforts in Texas, Missouri, North Carolina, and Indiana spur a “pairing” approach—Democrats will only redraw in Illinois if Republicans do elsewhere.
• Public Backlash Risks: Even in heavily gerrymandered districts, harsh ICE tactics are souring sentiment toward Trump and the GOP.
  • "Yes, the border is in order, but the way that ICE is conducting itself is completely out of control. And that really hurts public sentiment..." ([22:40])

Memorable Quotes

• On ICE’s Rogue Actions:
  • “They answer when they want to, but we continue to put forth our request.” (Krishnamoorthi, [05:04])
• On Racism in Politics:
  • “I’m just one of numerous people at this point who felt the pointy tip of the spear in terms of racism and prejudice. It’s just un-American, Sam. This is not right.” ([08:59])
• On China:
  • “My hope... is that the President uses our leverage to get more than we give up in any kind of negotiation with them.” ([12:17])
• On Political Stalemate:
  • “People have real needs and so we want to help them however we can. I have servant leaders for staff and ... they have tremendous ability to help people, and that's what they're doing as well.” ([16:45])
• On GOP Action:
  • “My hope is that... my colleagues on the other side are going to prevail upon their president to come to the table, stop building a golden ballroom and let’s start opening the government.” ([19:54])

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• ICE Overreach and Community Fear: [01:53]–[06:55]
• Racist Political Attacks: [07:21]–[09:17]
• China Relations & Economic Gameplan: [11:01]–[15:19]
• Government Shutdown Realities and Danger of Social Program Cliffs: [15:58]–[19:54]
• Redistricting and Nationwide Consequences: [20:15]–[23:10]

Tone & Style

The conversation is at once urgent and nuanced; both participants mix policy wonkishness with acerbic humor and personal anecdotes. Krishnamoorthi is frank, occasionally biting, but always focused on solutions and the human impact of political brinksmanship.

For Listeners Unfamiliar with the Episode

This episode spotlights the intersection of raw frontline realities (with dramatic ICE overreach and migrant community terror), high-stakes international diplomacy, and the slow-motion car crash of legislative dysfunction during a historic government shutdown. Krishnamoorthi gives both the details and the stakes—whether it's young citizens being detained by ICE, farmers hammered by trade retaliation, or millions on the brink of losing food and health security—making this conversation essential for anyone trying to understand the current moment in American government and politics.