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Sam Stein
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Will Sommer
Hey guys, it's Will. So right after Sam and I recorded this, Rand Paul's son, William Paul sent out a tweet under the sort of unfortunate Twitter handle Tasty Brew 1776. He acknowledged this incident regarding the anti Semitic remarks. He said, let's. Last night I had too much to drink and said some things that don't represent who I really am. I'm sorry. And today I am seeking help for my drinking problem. Also, Mike Lawler gave a press conference where he confirmed that this incident happened at the tune in, which is sort of a big Capitol Hill lawmaker and media hangout. And he called the Remarks fucking disgusting.
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Rand or William Paul decided to interject into the conversation and start accosting me about, you know, if Thomas Massie loses, it's because of my people. And I asked him, well, who is my people? And he yelled out, Jews. And I asked him, you think I'm Jewish? He said, yes. I said, well, I'm Irish, Italian, Catholic. And he goes, oh, oh, I'm sorry to accuse you of that, which is just a remarkable statement in and of itself. But he then went on a, you know, roughly 10 minute diatribe about Israel, about Jews, about Paul Singer and, you know, accusing Jews of, you know, being responsible for so many things. Playing right into the, you know, typical anti Semitic tropes that so many people rely on.
Sam Stein
Hey, everyone, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark. I'm here with Will Sommer to talk about a rather wild story that just broke on notice the soon to be Washington star by the reporter Reese Grumman, who is baller reporter. Apparently Reese was at a bar last night with Mike Lawler, the congressman from New York York and Senator Rand Paul's son William Paul came up to them. This is. I'm just kind of reading through the story here. Came up to them and was heavily drunk and accused Mike Lawler of sabotaging or trying to sabotage Representative Thomas Massey's GOP primary election which is coming up in Kentucky next week. And he said he's doing it because he's Jewish. I kid you not. This is according to Reese's reporting. It says in full view of this notice reported the younger Paul confronted Lawler about Representative Tom Massey's GOP primary election in Kentucky. William Paul was seated a couple of seats down from Lawler at the restaurant bar. An interruptive conversation between notice and Lawler to say that if Massie loses, it's going to be because of quote, your people. My people? Lawlor asked Paul. Yeah, you Jews. Paul responded. Here's where it gets interesting. Do you think I'm Jewish? Lawler asked. I'm not. Oh, wow. I'm so sorry for calling you a Jew. Paul said. All right, listen, William Paul, screw you, that's anti Semitic. Secondly, Michael Lawler, just because he's bearded and from New York, isn't a Jew. Okay? That's also anti Semitic. Third, if you were referencing Paul Singer, the financier who's trying to take out Massey, who is Jewish, screw you, that's anti Semitic. There's more to the story, but before I get there, Will.
Will Sommer
Well, it's pretty crazy. You know, I. I messaged Reese to find out what restaurant this was. To be frank, I think a lot of people's mind jumps to the tune in, which is.
Sam Stein
You think it was the tune?
Will Sommer
Well, you know, maybe I messaged him. Unfortunately, we didn't hear back in time for recording. I don't know if they're anonymizing the restaurant to protect its privacy. You know, it's. It's a strange situation. I mean, obviously for many reasons. He also, I should say later on in this exchange, he says, tells Mike Lawler, you need to watch more Tucker Carlson. So, you know, there's that aspect of it as well. I mean, for me, I think this represents kind of this like, riding rising tide of anti Semitism within the gop, particularly the young GOP operative class. I mean, we can think of the sort of pro Hitler group chats that leaked. You know, it's also possibly just that they talk about some really crazy stuff in the Rand Paul family, you know, and. And you also mentioned there was this super PAC ad in favor of Massey from. That was attacking Paul Singer, this wealthy guy who's been bankrolling Massey's opponent. And they had this like a Star of David in like the gay rainbow flag colors. Very bizarre situation. And I mean, it's just a. I don't know how like desperate the. The pro Massey side is getting or what's going on there. Yeah.
Sam Stein
And look, I think people are going to say, well, you know, he's a kid. You shouldn. Why are we even. Who cares what he says? He's not just a kid.
Will Sommer
He's like 32.
Sam Stein
32. And on top of that, you can't just throw around like this and expect that it's fine like this. This gets at something larger, which is threads of anti Semitism. They're pervasive in both parties. I'm not gonna not acknowledge that. But, you know, the stuff that you see on the right, particularly kicked up by people like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens, who tie any criticism of Israel, allude to it being sort of a criticism of Jews. And then, you know, the fact that it's seeping into politics at this level. Now, admittedly, this dude William Paul was incredibly drunk, but that doesn't, you know, absolve his behavior. I'll read this passage which really tickled me. Finally, Lawler tried to end the conversation, said, well, you just seem to hate Jews, so there's no point in arguing anymore. Paul, this is the young Paul, then shoved his finger in Lawler's face, saying, don't put words in my mouth. Mike Lawler. I never said that. Okay. He then began to complain that Lawler's push to raise the salt cap in last year's reconciliation bill. When Lawler said, please leave us alone, Paul turned around and flipped off Lawler. Did you just give me the middle finger? Lawler asked. I'm sorry. Yeah, I did. I'm just really drunk. I'm going to leave. Pause.
Will Sommer
Well, a little moment of self reflection, you know, a few moments too soon, I think.
Sam Stein
I love that he went to the salt, lifting the salt cap. It's like, you fucking Jew. Why'd you lift the salt cap, too? I'm so drunk.
Will Sommer
It's crazy. I mean, you know, when you're about to get a barroom fight over the salt cap, I do think it's, then you're in Washington, time to go home. Also, you know, and again, you know, in front of a reporter, because at first I was like, how is Rhys reporting this story so confidently? You know, he knows every detail.
Sam Stein
He made it very clear.
Will Sommer
Yes.
Sam Stein
He made it clear he was there.
Will Sommer
The answer is he's there. Yes. And so, you know, I think it's just this, this bizarre situation. And, you know, one thing I do want to note here is that William Paul, as the article notes, has a history of sort of like drunken incidents. In 2013, he was arrested for assaulting a flight attendant and got some related alcohol charges. Those charges were dropped. In 2015, he pleaded guilty to DUI. So this is sort of a thread that has been ongoing.
Sam Stein
What do you make of the, the Massey primary? Sort of this kind of proxy, I mean, it is obviously a proxy war about Trumpism and the future of the Republican Party. And a lot of people are watching this to see if he gets knocked off. But, you know, I mean, what are the dividing lines as you see him, beyond Jews, Jews versus non Jews?
Will Sommer
Yeah. I mean, you know, so obviously Rand Paul and Massey, they have a lot in common. They're kind of libertarian minded. They're more willing to buck Trump than a lot of, you know, basically anyone, any other Republican in Congress. They're both in Kentucky. And so I think this, this has, as you said, I mean, it's become a lot about, you know, people who are supportive of Israel going after Mass, who I think has been more critical of Israel. And also, you know, I think from Rand Paul's point of view and his son is perhaps like this idea of, you know, is will Trump truly, like, just be able to knock any Republican who challenges him out just Knock them out at will.
Sam Stein
Well, it certainly seems that way. Right? I mean, what we just got off of the Indiana Senate primaries where Trump went after six or seven of the senators who voted against redistricting and basically knocked them all out. And that, that, that's incredibly chilling for anyone who's a lawmaker. And I think it would be even more chilling if Massey loses his seat because Massie has made a point. It wasn't just like, you know, redistricting in one state. He was like, I'm going to. He's basically voted against all the major initiatives. He was obviously the point person from the Republican Party in releasing the Epstein files. If he gets tossed, I think it sends an incredible message to everyone else who remains in the party. You never cross Trump, which is kind of weird, too, because Trump's like, Trump is entering lame duck status and he's at 34 approval rating, and yet that, you know, he is the axle around which all of this rotates.
Will Sommer
Yeah, I mean, I think it's very telling that, you know, as you said, I mean, he's not going to be around for much longer, at least in the White House, you know, for a few more years. And yet he, he still has that real iron grip on the party. You know, of course, Massey, you know, really infuriated Trump by pushing for the release of the Epstein files. And so I think this would be a real payback for.
Sam Stein
The White House has ran, as we're recording this at like 3:15. Has Rand Paul commented on his son?
Will Sommer
No, no, not, Not. Not thus far. You know, and of course, the other thing to note here, of course, is that Ron Paul, William Paul's grandson, had issues with this. Right. Anti Semitism in his newsletter is going to affect wacky Libertarian newsletter. So this is a, you know, he comes by it honestly. But, but, but, you know, I, I
Sam Stein
might be in the family genes.
Will Sommer
Family thing. Yes.
Sam Stein
Yeah. Family practice here. Can we. Do you want to talk a little bit about the other Massey thing?
Will Sommer
I mean, right now, I mean, that's kind of the elephant in the room, or should I say the cow in the room. So, yeah, so I, I think, you know, if I can kind of psychoanalyze William Paul, this is happening at a moment where he's, he's having this drunken exchange Tuesday night that, earlier that day, that morning, this kind of bombshell, weird campaign tactic video alleging that Massie had a relationship, but that maybe there was like some hush money involved. Essentially. What happened is this woman comes out and she says two months after Massie's wife died in 2024. She contacted her on Twitter, this woman, and they struck up a sexual relationship.
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Sam Stein
was treating you at the beginning of
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this, what you thought was a developing relationship? I mean, it was very intense, very, very romantic, intense relationship that was forming very quickly.
Will Sommer
She claims that he wanted her to move from Florida to D.C. so he got her a job working in Congresswoman Victoria Spartz's office. That job fizzled. Eventually, this woman was going to file, like, a workplace ethics complaint against Sparts that was going to implicate Massey in some way. And he offered her, According to her, $5,000 in untraceable, quote, cow money. Because Massey raises and sells cows, and apparently this is like the ultimate, you know, illicit underground of all cash payments. So he said, look, let me break you off a couple of cow bucks here. And ultimately it was, why is cow
Sam Stein
money just straight cash? Out of curiosity, do we know?
Will Sommer
I mean, you know, these fellas, you know, you're at the rodeo, you know, you're not going to go, are you going to have a little square plugged in your phone?
Sam Stein
No, on the cow. Attached to the cow. Swipe the cow. All right, now, it's a weird one. And Massey, what is he saying about this?
Will Sommer
Well, Massey has said basically that there was nothing untoward here. This woman said that she ended the relationship because she wasn't comfortable with what he wanted her to do. But. So it's kind of not like a traditional. Me, too. There's not really, like, a straightforward allegation of abuse, but it certainly is not the story I think Thomas Massie wants to be grappling with. You know, and. And look, I mean, you know, there's also this aspect of. In terms of, like, is her. Did she really have this relationship with him? I mean, I looked at her divorce files going back. She. This came up in her divorce from her husband because he was tweeting at Massey, hey, I'm in the military. Stop screwing my wife. And, like, I used to like Thomas Massie until he had an affair with my wife. And so this. This was all out there, you know, to be grabbed.
Sam Stein
Just to be clear, Massie was a widow at that point. It wasn't that he was having an affair.
Will Sommer
Yeah, he was a widower, and she was on her way to getting divorced. But Massey's critics and, like, really Trump loyalists like Laura Loomer have really seized on this as sort of like, it's over for you, Thomas Massie.
Sam Stein
And it might be. Honestly, it's a classic situation where, you know, the shit gets dumped right before the election. You know, public opinion moves very sadly in one direction. I saw some polls that showed him down today and, you know, doesn't excuse William fucking Paul from blaming the Jews, let's just put it that way. And Mike Lawler, look, you handled it fine. I appreciate you, you know, standing up for the Jews. Don't be ashamed about saying, yeah, I might be Jewish. You might have some Judaism in you, Michael. Just, you know, it's not a bad thing. All right, well, thanks so much for doing this. Appreciate it, buddy. Really weird stuff, but you're the best person to sort through it. Thank you.
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Host: Sam Stein
Guest: Will Sommer
This episode unpacks a shocking incident involving William Paul, son of Senator Rand Paul, who launched a drunken anti-Semitic tirade at Rep. Mike Lawler in a Capitol Hill bar, as reported by Reese Grumman. Sam Stein and Will Sommer dissect the details, explore the implications for Republican politics—including the heated Kentucky GOP primary—and discuss the broader context of anti-Semitism in the conservative sphere.
Conversational, incredulous, sometimes darkly sardonic—true to the Bulwark’s style of dissecting political absurdity with a mix of deep concern and gallows humor.
This episode sheds light on a disturbing drunken outburst by William Paul, casts it against the backdrop of rising anti-Semitism and factional GOP warfare, and links the personal—familiar family failings and scandalous campaign tactics—to the political, illustrating how these undercurrents are shaping modern conservative politics.