Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – Command Post

Episode: Retired General Warns Militarizing Minneapolis Would Be A Disaster
Date: January 29, 2026
Host: Bill Kristol
Guest: Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Mark Hertling, Bulwark Contributor

Episode Overview

This edition of Command Post dives deep into the military and national security implications of deploying military or federal forces in response to unrest in Minneapolis, particularly after recent incidents involving the Border Patrol and ICE. Bill Kristol and retired Gen. Mark Hertling discuss the legal, practical, and ethical dangers of militarizing domestic law enforcement, the distinction between policing and soldiering, and the lessons from both domestic and international precedents. The episode also briefly touches on NATO’s northern strategy and the ongoing instability in Venezuela post-Maduro.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Military’s Proper Domestic Role

[03:20] Mark Hertling:

• The National Guard can support civilian authorities (guard buildings, logistics), but cannot make arrests or confront civilians except under extraordinary circumstances.
• “You don’t want the military, even though they are much better trained and much better led than some of the yahoos we’ve been seeing on the streets of Minneapolis over the last couple of weeks.”
• Only the Insurrection Act legalizes federalization and the use of the military for direct law enforcement or combat against US citizens.

2. National Guard vs. Insurrection Act Distinctions

[06:00] Bill Kristol & [07:37] Mark Hertling:

• Normal National Guard deployment is non-confrontational and typically requested by governors.
• President Trump has increasingly federalized the Guard against governors' wishes, muddying traditional boundaries.

[08:05] Mark Hertling:

• The Insurrection Act turns soldiers into “soldiers against” civilians, not police there to “protect and serve.”
• “Deploying the military into action by proclaiming the Insurrection Act says basically like it did during the Civil War: we have fellow citizens trying to overthrow the government so you can use deadly force against them…that’s the difference.”

3. Historical Examples and Dangers of Militarization

[10:50] Bill Kristol:

• The LA riots (1992): military called in only because civilian authorities were overwhelmed and with strict controls; force withdrawn promptly.

[12:52] Mark Hertling:

• LA riots involved armed rioters, unlike current Minneapolis unrest, justifying short-term, strictly limited military involvement.

4. Government's Intent and Political Risks

[13:56] Mark Hertling:

• “When you start saying we’re going to train on the streets of America, that is not what we do…that’s going to cause nothing but problems.”
• The Trump Administration's rhetoric and actions aim to intimidate and potentially instigate violence as a pretext for more intrusive federal intervention.

[15:51] Mark Hertling:

• “They not only want to intimidate people on the streets, but…it appears to me, they want to instigate violence. And that's why we've seen so many governors and mayors say to their citizens, 'Don’t take the bait.'”

5. Degradation of Trust in Law Enforcement

[19:23] Mark Hertling:

• Professional police walk a “very fine line” between enforcement and public trust.
• Deployment and behavior of ICE/Border Patrol in Minneapolis undermines years of trust-building by local police: “...it was just a piling on of a gang of thugs. It's now five days later, and today was the day that [they] finally pulled the people off duty that conducted this attack…How did it take five days?”

6. Ongoing Risks & Prediction

[22:21] Bill Kristol & [22:27] Mark Hertling:

• Real danger that continued mishandling could lead to a call for the Insurrection Act, though public backlash may be causing the administration to reconsider.
• “It's real hard stepping in as a new leader, even if you're a hardcore leader…changing the culture of an organization to get them to stop these kind of things. And we're still seeing it today…”

7. Federal Messaging and Culture Problems

[25:06] Mark Hertling:

• Reports of coordinated messaging to portray the shooting as justified, further eroding public trust.
• “How do you get away from what we’ve seen…it takes a major culture shift to change that…I know because I’ve been in cultures like this and…you can’t just flip the switch.”

8. NATO and Greenland–Arctic Security

[26:32] Mark Hertling:

• NATO, not unilateral U.S. forces, best manages the Arctic and northern defense; long-time planning among allies, particularly after adding Sweden and Finland.
• U.S. Arctic capabilities limited compared to Scandinavian partners; alliance is a necessity, not a hindrance.

[30:57] Mark Hertling:

• “It's a whole lot easier to manage this situation in the high north if you rely on the NATO partners as opposed to push them away.”

9. Venezuela: Ongoing Instability

[31:53] Mark Hertling:

• Despite Maduro’s capture, Venezuela remains unstable and corrupt; no clear U.S. strategic goal or endpoint.
• “From what I've seen…the reported remarks from Secretary Rubio, there is still no clean endpoint or clear objective in terms of what's going to happen in Venezuela.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Militarizing Minneapolis:

  “When you start saying we’re going to train on the streets of America, that is not what we do…that’s going to cause nothing but problems.”
  — Mark Hertling [13:56]

• On Insurrection Act:

  “Deploying the military…by proclaiming the Insurrection Act…means you are now facing your fellow citizens and you can prevent them from doing actions through any force possible.”
  — Mark Hertling [08:12]

• On ICE/Border Patrol Misconduct:

  “…it was just a gang, a piling on of a gang of thugs. It's now five days later...they were actually hiding those individuals who shot the weapon…All of that is contrary to the way a democracy works.”
  — Mark Hertling [21:30]

• On the Trump Administration’s Strategy:

  “…they want to instigate violence. And that's why we've seen so many governors and mayors say to their citizens, 'Don't take the bait.' Because as soon as they take the bait and there is violence, that gives the President the option to call the Insurrection Act."
  — Mark Hertling [15:51]

Important Timestamps

• Legal Distinctions: National Guard vs. Active Duty/Insurrection – [03:20]-[08:12]
• Comparison: LA Riots (1992) vs. Minneapolis Today – [10:50]-[12:52]
• Risks of Federal Overreach & Intimidation Strategy – [13:56]-[16:14]
• Impact on Police-Community Trust – [19:23]-[21:30]
• Federal Messaging Manipulation – [25:06]
• NATO/Greenland Discussion – [26:32]-[31:37]
• Venezuela Status Update – [31:53]-[34:00]

Summary & Tone

The discussion was candid, sobering, and urgent—underscoring the grave risks of substituting military power for law enforcement and the blatant disregard for proper training, accountability, and trust-building by federal authorities in Minneapolis. Kristol and Hertling’s tone is one of experienced caution, with Hertling’s military gravitas and firsthand perspective grounding the warnings. The episode closes by reaffirming the vital importance of careful, law-bound responses to unrest and cooperation with international partners, offering real-time insight into an unfolding crisis at home and abroad.