Bulwark Takes: RFK Jr. Lied to Congress. Does ANYONE Care?

Release Date: June 10, 2025

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Sam Stein and Jonathan Cohn delve into the controversial actions of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK Jr.), focusing on his recent decision to disband the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC) Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP). The discussion explores the implications of this move on public health, vaccine trust, and the political landscape.

1. Introduction to the Controversy

00:00 - 00:55

Sam Stein opens the conversation by introducing the significant news: RFK Jr. has announced in a Wall Street Journal op-ed his intention to disband the ACIP, a pivotal committee responsible for vaccine approval recommendations. Stein emphasizes the gravity of this decision, setting the stage for a deep dive into its ramifications.

Notable Quote:

Sam Stein (00:00): "RFK Jr. is going to be involved in appointing the 17 new members... the significance of it."

2. Understanding the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)

00:55 - 03:17

Jonathan Cohn provides a comprehensive overview of the ACIP, highlighting its crucial role in evaluating and recommending vaccine use in the United States. He explains the committee's composition, including experts from various medical fields, and its influence on vaccine approval and insurance coverage.

Key Points:

• ACIP consists of 19 members with staggered, volunteer-based terms.
• It meets three times annually to assess new and existing vaccines.
• Recommendations by ACIP guide the CDC Director and, ultimately, the Secretary of Health and Human Services on vaccine approvals.

Notable Quote:

Jonathan Cohn (01:10): "They look at vaccines as they are coming up and getting ready to be approved by the FDA... make recommendations on who should get the vaccine."

3. RFK Jr.'s Op-Ed and Its Implications

03:17 - 09:28

Sam Stein breaks down RFK Jr.'s Wall Street Journal op-ed, critiquing its assertions that the ACIP committee members are compromised due to conflicts of interest with pharmaceutical companies. Stein argues that RFK Jr. is attempting to deflect responsibility for the growing distrust in vaccines by targeting the scientific community.

Key Points:

• RFK Jr. claims a "crisis of public trust" in vaccines, blaming "skewed science" and conflicts of interest.
• Stein contends that RFK Jr.'s actions exacerbate vaccine skepticism.
• The removal and replacement of ACIP members raise concerns about the future integrity of vaccine recommendations.

Notable Quotes:

Sam Stein (04:00): "RFK Jr. is chiefly responsible for why vaccines are a divisive issue... he skews the science."

Jonathan Cohn (07:00): "Anybody who does work in this field that has at some point intersected the pharmaceutical industry is by definition biased."

4. Senator Bill Cassidy's Involvement and Reaction

09:28 - 15:41

The discussion shifts to Senator Bill Cassidy's role in RFK Jr.'s confirmation. Cassidy, initially a skeptic, supported RFK Jr. based on assurances that the vaccine approval process would remain unchanged. However, RFK Jr.'s recent actions appear to contradict these commitments, leading to Cassidy's predicament.

Key Points:

• Cassidy assured RFK Jr. he would not alter existing vaccine recommendations.
• RFK Jr.'s move to disband the ACIP undermines these promises.
• Cassidy now faces backlash and appears powerless to counteract the changes.

Notable Quotes:

Sam Stein (11:00): "Cassidy claimed RFK Jr. would maintain the ACIP recommendations without changes... I just call bullshit."

Jonathan Cohn (12:10): "Cassidy looks so weak... he's watching our vaccine culture being taken over."

5. Political and Public Health Implications

15:41 - 17:06

Stein and Cohn explore the broader implications of RFK Jr.'s actions within the context of the current political climate. They draw parallels to the Trump administration's aggressive agenda-pushing tactics, highlighting concerns about the speed and manner in which RFK Jr. is implementing changes.

Key Points:

• The decision to disband ACIP is part of a pattern of rapid, often contentious policy changes.
• There is growing anxiety about the potential long-term effects on public health and vaccine trust.
• The political maneuvering around such decisions may have significant repercussions for upcoming elections and public perception.

Notable Quotes:

Sam Stein (16:30): "It's one thing after another... we can't stop and take stock of it on occasion."

Jonathan Cohn (16:53): "Why aren't we spending more time talking about this deal? Because there's 10 other huge deals."

6. Conclusion and Forward Look

17:06 - End

As the episode wraps up, Stein and Cohn emphasize the importance of continued coverage and analysis of RFK Jr.'s actions and their impact on public health. They tease future discussions and interviews that will further unpack the evolving situation.

Key Points:

• The hosts urge listeners to stay informed and engaged with ongoing developments.
• They highlight the need for vigilance in maintaining the integrity of public health institutions.
• The episode concludes with a call to subscribe and support the Bulwark Takes series.

Notable Quote:

Sam Stein (17:06): "Just keep covering it, figure out who the people are, who he's appointed to this count Committee, press Cassidy on the hill, etc."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Bulwark Takes provides a thorough examination of RFK Jr.'s controversial move to disband the CDC's vaccine advisory committee. Through insightful analysis and critical discourse, Stein and Cohn shed light on the potential ramifications for public health policy and trust in vaccines. The conversation underscores the delicate balance between political maneuvering and maintaining robust scientific oversight in public health matters.

For more in-depth discussions and future episodes, subscribe to the Bulwark Takes feed and stay informed on the latest developments in American politics and public health.