RFK Jr. Picks a Fight With Dunkin’—And New England Isn’t Having It

Summary

Bulwark Takes – RFK Jr. Picks a Fight With Dunkin’—And New England Isn’t Having It

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: March 5, 2026
Hosts: Sam Stein, JVL, Catherine

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of Bulwark Takes explores the recent controversy sparked by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s public questioning of the safety of sugary iced coffees at Dunkin’ and Starbucks. The Bulwark team—Sam Stein, JVL, and Catherine—delve into the clash between Kennedy and New England’s most cherished institution: Dunkin’ Donuts. The conversation blends cultural analysis, sharp humor, nostalgia, and critiques of public health grandstanding, examining the deep-rooted significance of Dunkin’ in regional and American identity.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. RFK Jr.’s Challenge to Dunkin’ and Starbucks

• RFK Jr. calls out Dunkin’ and Starbucks to “show us the safety data that show that it's okay for a teenage girl to drink an iced coffee with 115 grams of sugar in it.” (01:00)
• Hosts interpret this as Kennedy “going to war with New England,” a remarkable move given the Kennedy family’s longstanding cultural ties to the region.
• Sam teases a grotesque Dunkin’ concoction he’ll reveal later in the show.

2. The Symbolic Weight of Dunkin’ in New England

• The hosts emphasize Dunkin’ as a core pillar of Massachusetts and New England identity.
  • Catherine: “The three most important things to people here are, are Duncan, the Kennedys, and the Red Sox, in that order.” (03:25)
• JVL provides a quintessential Boston experience: “You could hop off, get a Dunkin light and sweet... hop right back on the T. I was like, this is wicked pisser.” (02:32)
• The cognitive dissonance of a Kennedy attacking Dunkin’ is compared to “watching a giant eagle attack the Statue of Liberty.” (04:13)

3. Dunkin’ by the Numbers: Regional Devotion

• Sam shares revealing stats:
  • Out of 9,990 Dunkin’ locations nationwide, 1,031 are in Massachusetts (one for every nine in the state).
  • 80% of Massachusetts residents live within two miles of a Dunkin’. (04:17)
• Cultural divide: Real New Englanders prefer Dunkin’; Starbucks is seen as the alternative for outsiders.

4. Evolution of Dunkin’: From Donuts to Coffee (and Super Bowl Ads)

• Nostalgia for the days when donuts were made fresh in-store:
  • JVL laments: “No longer because we can't have nice things in America and shitification is our national anthem, but the coffee, qua coffee... is just better than Starbucks coffee.” (05:57)
• Discussion of celebrity Dunkin’ commercials, especially with Boston icons Ben Affleck and Matt Damon, and even a reference to Al Pacino’s “Dunkachino.” (07:13)

5. Dunkin’ Excess: Gigantic Coffees and Strange Fragrances

• Catherine introduces Dunkin’s new 48-ounce coffee “bucket,” rolling out in select locations: “I’d go swimming in it. I'd really have a heart attack.” (07:50)
• Odd product collaborations—Dunkin'-scented deodorant and toiletries: “I don't know if you smell like a donut or a coffee or that weird smell of the inside of a Dunkin Donuts.” (08:51)

6. Sugar Content: The Disturbing Details

• Sam reads out nutritional facts:
  • Large strawberry culatta: 110g sugar; vanilla bean up to 167g; even regular iced lattes and lemonades have sky-high sugar content. (10:04)
• Catherine: “The daily dietary guidelines are apparently 50 grams per day. Per day.” (10:34)
• JVL: “You don't want people to be able to have whatever the hell they want? This is America.” (10:41)

7. America’s Right to Sugary Freedom and the Limits of Public Health Activism

• Hosts defend the right to consumer choice and push back on perceived nanny-statism:
  • JVL: “We drive big pickup trucks and we drink big sugary coffees.” (10:51)
• Jesting references to the cultural and political weaponization of “making America healthy.”
  • JVL: “If you simply do after school programs... that’s the mark of the beast. And we need to have an insurrection and a Tea Party and all that stuff. Because you’re a communist.” (15:59)

8. Sam’s Gonzo Journalism: The Diabetes Bucket

• Sam creates and tries a monstrous Dunkin’ order: “Five shots of caramel, two shots of blueberry, two coconuts, three Splenda, and four cream.” (13:14)
• Group reaction: “Oh, it tastes like. It tastes like ice cream. It just tastes like liquid melted ice cream.” (13:45)
• Catherine compares it to a melted sundae and jokes about induced diabetes (20:38).

9. Reflecting on RFK Jr.'s Health Crusades (and Double Standards)

• JVL ridicules the double standard of “a roided out ketamine addiction” guy telling America what to consume:
  • “Who looks like he injects HGH into his eyeballs every morning and horse steroids into his ass every night. Running around telling people what they can and can’t put into their felt holes.” (14:05)
• Critique of RFK Jr.’s selective health activism and MLM-adjacent supplement culture. (14:28)

10. Culture Wars and Brand Identity: Could Dunkin’ Become Lib Coffee?

• The hosts speculate whether RFK Jr.’s targeting of Dunkin’ could backfire, risking Dunkin’ being seen as a “blue brand,” similar to the Bud Light and trans spokesperson controversy.
• Catherine: “At the point that you enter the culture wars, for whatever reason, you enter the culture wars...” (17:52)
• JVL: “You may not be interested in the culture war, but the culture war is interested in you, Sam.” (18:02)
• Advice to Dunkin’: “I think if I were them, I would just shut up.” (18:44)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• JVL (sarcastically): “Why does Robert Kennedy hate America? Is there anything more American than Dunkin Donuts coffee? America runs on Dunkin.” (02:08)
• Catherine: “The three most important things to people here are, are Duncan, the Kennedys, and the Red Sox, in that order.” (03:25)
• JVL: “It’s like watching a giant eagle attack the Statue of Liberty.” (04:13)
• Sam Stein: “A large strawberry culatta has 110 grams of sugar. Disgusting. But that’s on the low side actually.” (10:04)
• JVL: “You don’t want people to be able to have whatever the hell they want? This is America.” (10:41)
• Catherine: “Not the nanny state here.” (10:56)
• Catherine (on Dunkin drinks): “How is this different from having a melted sundae?” (13:41)
• JVL (on RFK Jr.): “Who looks like he injects HGH into his eyeballs every morning and horse steroids into his ass every night, running around telling people what they can and can’t put into their felt holes.” (14:05)
• JVL: “We drive big pickup trucks and we drink big sugary coffees.” (10:51)
• JVL: “You may not be interested in the culture war, but the culture war is interested in you, Sam.” (18:02)
• Catherine: “I think if I were them, I would just shut up.” (18:44)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• RFK Jr. vs. Dunkin’ Donuts: 01:00–02:21
• Dunkin’ as New England Institution: 02:21–04:13
• Dunkin’ Locations and Stats: 04:13–05:53
• Dunkin’ Nostalgia and Ads: 05:34–07:28
• 48oz Dunkin’ Drink and Fragrances: 07:37–09:25
• Dunkin’ Sugar Content & Nutrition Discussion: 09:35–10:41
• Sam’s Gonzo Order & Taste Test: 13:12–13:49
• RFK Jr., Supplements, and Culture Wars: 14:05–15:14 and 17:11–18:44
• Marketing and Political Risks: 16:41–20:19

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Conclusion

The episode wraps with the hosts reinforcing Dunkin’ as a non-partisan, deeply American staple and playfully siding with consumer freedom over sugar shaming. They lampoon RFK Jr.’s approach and urge Dunkin’ to avoid getting sucked into the culture wars. Sam recovers from his “diabetes bucket” beverage, and the crew signs off with a salute to Dunkin’s iconic place in American life.

Final Sam Stein quote: “Thank you for subscribing to the Bulwark where you support good stuff like this. Talk to you soon. Goodbye. I spilled a little on my mic.” (20:48)

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Transcript

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[Sam Stein]

Hey everybody, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark. And you're in for a treat, a glazed treat of a take. We are going to be talking about Dunkin Donuts because our Health and Human Service secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Has gone to war with New England. This is remarkable to me, a Kennedy going to war with New England. He has said, according to reporting. I guess it was at this event he was at at Austin as part of his MAHA initiative that he's going to be asking, the quote is we're going to be asking Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks quote, show us the safety data that show that it's okay for a teenage girl to drink an iced coffee with 115 grams of sugar in it. I don't think they're going to be able to do it. End quote. Remarkable stuff here. This could tear apart the state of Massachusetts if he's not careful. So I'm with jvl. I'm with, I'm with Catherine. Two of us came with props. I can't wait to tell you what's in this thing. It is absolutely grotesque. I will get to that as a teaser in a little bit. But jbl, you were the most eager to, you know, shoot the shit on this one. Why? What, what has. What, what, what's bothering you here?

[JVL]

I just, you know, why, why does Robert Kennedy hate America? Is there anything more American than Dunkin Donuts coffee? America runs on Dunkin, some might say. Sam Stein.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

Is there anything more New England, really, than Dunkin Donuts? Than Dunkin Donuts?

[JVL]

I don't know about you guys. Both of you sort of New Englanders

[Sam Stein]

ish I'm from Connecticut. I'm New England.

[JVL]

You know, the first time I was in Boston and I was riding on the T and I learned that there were platforms where you could hop off, get a Dunkin light and sweet. You just say light and sweet. They knew what you wanted. And then hop right back on the tee. I was like, this is wicked pisser.

[Sam Stein]

I love this.

[JVL]

I love this for us. And. And this is America. And Robert F. Kennedy wants to destroy that because is he a communist? Is he from Russia? Did we lose a war? That there's going to take Dunkin Donuts away from us?

[Sam Stein]

Sam, what is the acceptable. What is the acceptable sugar level for Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Why does he get to decide how much junk I put in my body? Right. This would not have gone over well with conservatives 10 years ago, but seems to be fine now. Catherine, what is your actual connection to Massachusetts?

[Catherine]

You live there, so I live part time in Western Mass. In the Berkshire. So on the other side.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, fancy.

[Catherine]

Yeah, I know. And yes, we have plenty of donkeys per capita here too. It is the lifeblood of New England, of Massachusetts. I think if there's one thing that I've learned about Massachusetts, it's that the three most important things to people here are, are Duncan, the Kennedys, and the Red Sox, in that order.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

And so, like, I don't know what it means to have a Kennedy going to war with the number two value or, excuse me, the number one value here, which is Duncan. Like the Boston Tea Party started here or on the other side of the state anyway, over another kind of beverage. So I don't know how well the people of Massachusetts are going to take it.

[JVL]

It's like watching a giant eagle attack the Statue of Liberty.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, more or less. Let me, Let me play some. Let me read some stats for you guys about how just because people might be like, oh, people who aren't from the area might be like, what are you guys talking about? All right, we can pull up the maps here too. We can put them over here. But how many Duncans are there, question mark? Well, it turns out there's a fair amount 9,990 locations. This is in the country, but 1,031 of them are in Massachusetts. One for every nine. Okay, this is another stat. According to Maptitude, which I just discovered is a thing. Today in Massachusetts, 5.6 million people live less than two miles from a Duncan. That's 80% of the population. You don't have to go very far to get a Dunkin Donut coffee. Now, when I was growing up, Jville, you probably feel the same way. It was a simpler time. You could get your light and sweet, obviously, and you went to Dunkin Donuts. Mostly for donuts. But along the way, it became defined by its coffee. And there's a real cultural divide between people who like the Duncan and people who went to, like, I don't know, Starbucks, I guess would be the other alternative. But the real people went to Duncan. Even though, you know, most people think it tastes like. I think it tastes great. I love. I love a Dunkin Donuts.

[JVL]

A Dunkin Donuts coffee. Not the donuts anymore. The donuts.

[Sam Stein]

I'll do the munchkins.

[JVL]

They used to make the donuts on premises. Yes. So once upon a time, every Dunkin you went to made the donuts. This was the. They had the famous commercial with the little guy with the Hitler mustache going, time to make the donuts.

[Sam Stein]

Time to make the donuts. I made the donuts.

[JVL]

Dunkin Donut. Right? And they made them fresh every morning. They were amazing. No longer because we can't have nice things in America and shitification is our national anthem, but the coffee, qua coffee is. It's just better than Starbucks coffee. Now Starbucks does better espresso drinks, right? I myself am an elevated gentleman who prefers espresso. I have coffee intelligentsia beans from Chicago delivered to my home every 10 days because that's just how I roll. But if you want just a cup of joe, you can't do better than Dunkin in terms of mass market coffee.

[Catherine]

Was that your attempt at a New England accent? A Boston accent? Jvl.

[JVL]

I mean, sure, it's better than Cletus,

[Sam Stein]

go back to the yard.

[JVL]

Go back to the yard. Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Stein]

What do we. What do we make of the Duncan commercials? Because they become a thing. Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are constantly in them. I don't need her.

[JVL]

I still get everything I need right here at Duncan. Hey, kid, if you're still single, doing this Boston shtick and working for Duncan when you're 50, I'm gonna be very disappointed.

[Sam Stein]

Isn't that your girlfriend?

[Catherine]

You like donuts?

[Sam Stein]

It's so bad. It's so bad. I'm sorry.

[JVL]

I love it.

[Catherine]

What year is that? What year is that?

[JVL]

Is it the super bowl this year?

[Sam Stein]

This is the Super Bowl.

[JVL]

Last at the Super Bowl.

[Catherine]

Oh, wow.

[JVL]

Not quite as good as the Tom Brady, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck commercial from, I think it was two years ago, which also had JLo in it. That was also fantastic.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, there was one with Al Pacino. It was in a movie. Making fun of Dunkin Donuts. What's my name? Duncano. It's a whole new game.

[JVL]

Dunkachino.

[Sam Stein]

Dunkin Donuts has introduced a couple different truly insane drinks. And I know, Kathryn, you're on the lookout for one, but can you talk a bit about this 48 ounce bucket and then the fragrance? I was unaware.

[Catherine]

Oh my God. Yes. So Dunkin Donuts has introduced a 48 ounce bucket. I think that is what they refer to it as of coffee, to be clear. Not soup or something else that might make more sense in a quantity of that size. And they're rolling it out, I think in only select locations in Massachusetts and in New Hampshire right now. Uh, so it's not available yet. I checked. I, I really wanted that as a prop today instead of what the fuck

[Sam Stein]

would you do with 48 ounces of this?

[Catherine]

I'd go swimming in it. I'm not really had a heart attack. Did you ever see that episode of Parks and Rec where they talked about the enormous sizes of beverages? No.

[Sam Stein]

No.

[Catherine]

There, there's one where they, they refer to a very large size that's. It's about that size as a child size because. Because it is approximately the size of a two year old child. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[Sam Stein]

What about the fragrances though? Can you talk about that? Because that kind of intrigues me.

[Catherine]

Yeah. There was a partnership a couple of years ago where they were selling Duncan scented deodorant. I think it was Duncan scented deodorant and like maybe shaving cream and shampoo. And it kind of brings to mind that scene from Jurassic park where he says, you know, your scientists were so obsessed with whether they could. They never consum considered whether they should. And I don't know, I've never tried these Duncan scented things. I don't know if you smell like a donut or a coffee or that weird smell of the inside of a Dunkin Donuts.

[JVL]

This sounds like something from 30 Rock.

[Sam Stein]

I'm actually wearing the apple fritter deodorant right now.

[Catherine]

Yes. It's the crossover nobody asked for.

[Sam Stein]

So there really is a lot of sugar in this shit. Like absurd amount of sugar. Oh my God, she did it. You said you didn't like the donuts and here you are eating one. I want to just go through, I want to go through some of the nutritional data that they themselves post on their, their site. So a large strawberry culata has 110 grams of sugar. Disgusting. But that's on the low side. Actually.

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Yes.

[Sam Stein]

A vanilla bean culata ranging from small to large is either 83 grams to 167 grams of sugar. All the frozen chocolate, frozen coffees and frozen chai drinks are at least set 50 grams of sugar. They go up to 168. A large berry blue lemonade refresher. This is 74 grams. That's a real steel healthy. And a large chocolate covered banana iced coffee has 67 grams of sugar. Folks. That's just a lot of sugar.

[Catherine]

It's just a lot.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

I just looked up and the daily dietary guidelines are apparently 50 grams per day. Per day.

[JVL]

You've blown away Mrs. Kennedy. I'm sorry. You don't want people to be able to have whatever the hell they want. This is America.

[Catherine]

Exactly.

[JVL]

We drive big pickup trucks and we drink big sugary coffees. Yeah.

[Catherine]

Not the nanny state here.

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[Sam Stein]

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[Sam Stein]

Because a great trip starts with the right support. Yeah. And if you think this is absurd and obviously people aren't ordering this shit, you're wrong. I did a little bit of investigative journalism. I went on a Facebook page where people were asked to tell the their favorite Duncan order and I came away truly depressed about humanity. I'm just going to read a couple of people's favorite orders. These are just random people. I'm not going to name who they are, but these are real. One woman says that her favorite order is large iced coffee with five creams, five liquid sugars, five mocha shots, or a medium ice coffee with two mocha shots, two caramel shots, four creams and three liquid sugars with cold foam on top of.

[Catherine]

No.

[Sam Stein]

1 woman says she likes the large iced coffee with four caramel, eight liquid sugars and six BB shots. I realize that BB is actually blueberry. This is just disgusting combinations of flavors on top of absurd amounts of sugar. And then this was more like why? But this one person said he likes an extra, extra large hot, original coffee. Fine. With eight Splenda. Oh. Oh.

[JVL]

I'm not going to be part of drink shaming.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, fair enough.

[JVL]

You. You. You're not gonna shame these people for their drinks.

[Catherine]

I don't know. How many splendid does it take to give a rat cancer?

[Sam Stein]

Like, at that point, you're not drinking coffee. You know you're not drinking coffee. So I. I took it upon myself to say I'm not going to drink shame either. I'm with you, jvl. And I'm not going to knock it unless I try it. So we went out and we got this absurdly large tub of coffee. This is what's in it.

[Catherine]

Gonzo journalism right here.

[Sam Stein]

This is it. Okay. Five shots of caramel, two shots of blueberry, two coconuts, three Splenda, and four cream.

[JVL]

Now, like dark myth.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[JVL]

You've got to chug the whole thing.

[Sam Stein]

Okay. Oh. It's all. Okay. Here we go. Oh, God.

[JVL]

Frank the Tank. Frank the tank. Yes.

[Sam Stein]

It's.

[Catherine]

That's awesome.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, my God, that's awesome.

[Catherine]

How is this different from having a melted sundae?

[Sam Stein]

Oh, it tastes like. It tastes like ice cream. It just tastes like liquid melted ice cream.

[Catherine]

Yeah.

[JVL]

Wow.

[Sam Stein]

Oh.

[JVL]

While you harden your arteries for the entertainment of our audience, Sam, I will just say there is something absurd about having a roided out ketamine addiction.

[Sam Stein]

Yes.

[JVL]

Who looks like he injects HGH into his eyeballs every morning and horse steroids into his ass every night. Running around telling people what they can and can't put into their felt holes.

[Catherine]

You know what Sam really needs in his beverage? You know what he really needs? Beef tallow.

[JVL]

Beef. Right.

[Catherine]

Yeah. I think that our HHS secretary would be into that.

[JVL]

This is the thing about the Maha stuff. It isn't the case that they want everybody to be healthy. They just want everybody to use the weird. They like, they want you to take ivory. They don't want you to get the MMR vaccine. But if you've got a cough, you should be starting to take some ivermectin to head that off. Right. You gotta get your ivermectins and they want ketamine. You should be microdosing ketamine. And everybody shouldn't be on hgh. And they have a million quack supplements and. Well, have you tried colloidal silver? It is. It isn't even about make America healthy. It's. It's this weird group of crazy people who just want to force everybody else to be as crazy as they are.

[Catherine]

Well, and there may be some MLM side to all of this too, right? Maybe not for the Ivermectin, but for some of this other stuff, Chinese peptides and whatever else.

[Sam Stein]

He's been asked about this, right? Like someone was like, you know, you go tanning in like tanning salons and you, you, you're zinning all the time. Like, who are you? Right? And I think he said, well, I never said be like me. It's like don't. Which is you can't dictate to everyone else what they can and can't do if they can't be like you. So I find it, I find it absurd and there's better ways to go about doing this than shaming people. You know, you can like educate them and work with Duncan rather than outlawing.

[JVL]

No, no. See, because if you do that, like Michelle Obama, you're a communist.

[Sam Stein]

Yes, that's communism, right?

[JVL]

If you, if you simply do after school programs where you tell, keep, tell kids to exercise and you try to get vegetables into school lunches, well, that's the mark of the beast. And we need to have an insurrection and a Tea Party and all that stuff. Because you're a communist. When you do this, you're making America healthy again.

[Sam Stein]

Well, I will say this. I think reaching going after Duncan is a step too far. Already we have the governor of Massachusetts, more Ahili, saying come and take it with us with an iced coffee and the logo. People will revolt legitimately if he goes after Duncan. That's just, you can't do that.

[Catherine]

He's going to lose Massachusetts, you know, when he runs for president for the fourth time, Trump better be worried.

[JVL]

Let me ask you guys a question though. Does this have the, if you were Duncan, would you be spooked at being turned into a blue brand by accident? So I mean, if, if, right. If, maybe if the governor of Massachusetts is latching on and saying, come and take it, are you concerned that people in Texas are going to decide, well, shit, I can't be drinking no Dunkin Donuts. That's lib juice. I gotta go to Buc ee's and get Bucky's coffee with 85 sugars in it?

[Sam Stein]

Sure. I mean, yes and no, because I don't think there's market penetration of Duncan and Texas yet. Although the map says they are in some of the urban zones. It's mostly, it's really mostly east coast with spots of California. But two is, I, I don't know, maybe this is just my New England bias here, but like, Duncan is iconic. Like no one. I, I think People just don't associate Duncan politics, period. And I don't think RFK Jr turning his focus on them was going to make them into a blue brand.

[Catherine]

Have you, have you memory hold what happened with, with Budweiser? But that Budweiser was different.

[Sam Stein]

This is sugar. Not, not having trans, you know, spokespeople is fundamentally different. Sugar. Everyone loves sugar. Come on.

[Catherine]

But I think at the point that you enter the culture wars, for whatever reason you enter the culture wars, they

[Sam Stein]

didn't enter the culture wars. RFK brought the culture wars on them. They're just doing sugar.

[JVL]

You may not be interested in the culture war, but the culture war is interested in you. Sam.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, Duncan is just an icon, iconic. And it's also sort of like, that's a blue collar coffee. Come on. That's not.

[Catherine]

As opposed to Bud Bud Light.

[Sam Stein]

Well, that's Bud Light was trying. Bud Light was moving away. That was the whole problem with the Bud Light thing. They're moving away from the blue collar nature. You're wrong on this one. Way wrong.

[JVL]

Catherine, how would you advise Duncan corporate to manage this? Because on the one hand, you can't look like you're capitulating to him because then you'll anger your, your lib customers. But you don't want to be turned into like democratic blue juice. What do you do?

[Catherine]

I think there's probably nothing you can say or do that will not alienate somebody. Because it's so much fun to talk about Duncan as we are doing right now. Like, there are going to be other politicians who seize on it, and you're going to be drafted into one side or another, whether you want to be drafted in the culture wars. So I think if I were them, I would just shut up.

[Sam Stein]

Well, this raises a great question. This raises a great question. Are there brands iconic enough that they could live above the culture wars and not get dragged into them? Is there like something so Americana that you're just like, huh? I mean, not the NFL. And you would think the NFL would

[JVL]

be not the NFL. I mean, didn't McDonald's try to signal like, hey, yeah, we're gonna test pilot beef tallow or something, right? To get K off their, their back. And so they did like, whatever, but like what Foxconn Apple do with Trump. Yeah, we're going to spend a bajillion dollars on American manufacturing someday. And then Trump declares victory. And they, they keep doing what they're doing. McDonald's did that, right? They, they pretended to capitulate for a half hour until the circus Moved on. I guess Duncan could do that, but I don't know, man.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, we'll look into. We'll look into, like, less sugar. We'll cut it down a few grams from 115 to 112.

[JVL]

On the app. We won't let people select more than 15 additional sugars.

[Sam Stein]

You can top out of five flavors, not eight.

[Catherine]

I mean, they can say we're not forcing anyone to order all the disgusting stuff that's in Sam's drink.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Catherine]

Freedom.

[Sam Stein]

Well, we'll see. Guys, this has been a real pleasure. I do need to wash out my mouth. It's. Yeah.

[JVL]

Enjoy your freedom Coffee, Sam.

[Sam Stein]

It's turning really dry, and the coconut flavor is awful. Don't combine it.

[Catherine]

I think that's. That's the diabetes that you just induced in yourself.

[JVL]

Diabetes. Wilford Brimley. It's the diabetes Sam got.

[Sam Stein]

Got to go walk down to GW Hospital, get my cholesterol checked out after this. All right, jbl. Catherine, thanks so much to the good folks at Duncan. Look, we love you. If you want to come sponsor the Bulwark, happily would take your ad dollars. We support Duncan. And one more for good measure. Oh, so good. Thank you for subscribing to the Bulwark where you support good stuff like this. Talk to you soon. Goodbye. I spilled a little on my mic.

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[JVL]

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