Rubio Regret Sets In After Insane Trump-Zelensky Meeting

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Rubio Regret Sets In After Insane Trump-Zelensky Meeting
Release Date: March 3, 2025

Host/Author: The Bulwark

---

Introduction

In the March 3, 2025 episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Sam Stein and Lauren Egan delve into the unfolding political fallout following a tumultuous meeting between former President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The episode primarily focuses on the emerging regrets among Democratic senators over their previous support for Marco Rubio’s nomination as Secretary of State and explores the broader implications for Democratic strategies in countering Trump’s influence.

---

Democratic Regrets Over Marco Rubio’s Nomination

The episode opens with Sam Stein highlighting a significant development: two Democratic senators, Chris Murphy and Chris Van Hollen, have publicly expressed regret over their votes approving Marco Rubio as Secretary of State. This regret stems from Rubio’s perceived alignment with Trump’s policies, particularly in the aftermath of the controversial Trump-Zelensky Oval Office meeting.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Murphy ([01:29] MM:SS):
  “I did vote for Senator Rubio to be Secretary of State. I regret that vote because as a member of the Senate, Secretary Rubio was somebody who stood up for American values, American principles. He acknowledged that Russia was the aggressor against Ukraine. He realized that it wasn't Zelensky who was the dictator. And now he's simply taking his directions at the State Department from Elon Musk and essentially parroting the president's position.”

• Chris Van Hollen ([02:07] MM:SS):
  “Nope. It was a mistake. It was a mistake. I think a lot of us thought that Marco Rubio was going to stand up to Donald Trump on an issue like this. That when Donald Trump decided to, to align America with dictatorships again in order to make it easier for him to steal from the American people, to turn America into an illiberal democracy in which, just like Russia, the oligarchs, the economically powerful people in America rule, and the rest of us just feed the powerful.”

---

Analysis of Senators Murphy and Van Hollen’s Regrets

Sam Stein and Lauren Egan dissect the senators' statements, questioning whether Murphy and Van Hollen were overly optimistic or naive in their initial support for Rubio. They ponder whether the senators genuinely believed Rubio would act as an effective check on Trump or if they merely saw him as the lesser of two evils.

Key Points:

• Optimism vs. Realism: Lauren Egan challenges the senators' belief that Rubio would stand up to Trump, suggesting that their expectations might have been unrealistic given Rubio's track record.

• Political Strategy: The hosts speculate that Democrats may have seen Rubio as a manageable nominee within a polarized Senate, opting for a pragmatic approach rather than outright opposition.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Egan ([03:08] MM:SS):
  “I think it was like, all right, we know Rubio. We've been in Congress with Rubio. It could be worse than Rubio. So we're gonna, we're gonna say yes to Rubio.”

• Sam Stein ([03:49] MM:SS):
  “And yet he, he put on a brave face and did the whole spin thing where he said Trump was incredible and rightfully, you know, standing up for America's interests.”

---

Broader Democratic Strategies Against Trump

The conversation shifts to the internal dynamics within the Democratic Party, particularly the tension between the party’s base and its lawmakers. The hosts discuss how some Democrats feel they have been too passive in their opposition to Trump, leading to frustration among voters who expect a more aggressive stance.

Key Points:

• Divided Party: Lauren Egan notes the divide between Democratic lawmakers and the party base, emphasizing the pressure to balance bipartisanship with effective opposition to Trump.

• Strategic Approaches: The discussion touches on differing schools of thought within the party, referencing James Carville’s op-ed advocating for a passive approach until Trump’s support wanes, contrasted with Bernie Sanders' assertion that Democrats must actively fight every battle.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Egan ([04:58] MM:SS):
  “I think there's like, you know, a sense, especially among base Democratic voters, that the party could be doing a lot more to be pushing back against Trump.”

• Bernie Sanders Reference ([07:50] MM:SS):
  “Bernie Sanders was out today, and he basically was like, I don't agree with that. He's like, I think we have to fight all the fights, more or less.”

---

Impact of Public Opinion and Shaping It

Sam Stein and Lauren Egan explore the role of public opinion in shaping Democratic strategies. They argue that Democrats need to be more proactive in influencing public perception to counteract Republican narratives and regain control over the political discourse.

Key Points:

• Public Opinion as a Battleground: The hosts assert that Democrats have a crucial role in shaping public opinion, which has been neglected in favor of reactive measures.

• Strategic Communication: Emphasis is placed on the need for Democrats to engage more creatively and assertively in media and public forums to effectively communicate their stance against Trump’s policies.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Egan ([05:28] MM:SS):
  “Democrats have a role to play in shaping public opinion. They do. That's why that argument from Carville, I'm just like, okay, like, I don't know.”

---

Discussion on Joe Rogan’s Elon Musk Interview

The episode also touches upon Elon Musk’s controversial statements during his appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience, particularly his characterization of Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. Sam Stein and Lauren Egan critique the Democratic response, suggesting it has been tepid and insufficient in addressing such provocative claims.

Key Points:

• Insufficient Response: The hosts criticize Democratic leaders for their lack of a strong rebuttal to Musk’s remarks, viewing it as a missed opportunity to defend social programs and counter misinformation.

• James Carville’s Strategy: They link this to James Carville’s advocated strategy of minimal confrontation, questioning its effectiveness in the current political climate.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein ([08:15] MM:SS):
  “On the Joe Rogan experience, Elon Musk did call Experience. It's an experience. He called Social Security a Ponzi scheme. And I'm old enough to remember when that would get you in real trouble.”

• Lauren Egan ([09:17] MM:SS):
  “They're, like, handing Democrats, like, cards for them to play. Like, play it if you're trying to win here, you know, like, what are you doing?”

---

Conclusion and Future Outlook

In closing, Sam Stein and Lauren Egan express skepticism about the effectiveness of the current Democratic strategies in countering Trump’s maneuvers. They highlight the need for a more dynamic and assertive approach to regain momentum and address the challenges posed by both Trump and influential figures like Elon Musk.

Key Points:

• Need for Creativity: The hosts call for Democrats to adopt more creative and proactive strategies rather than relying solely on traditional media appearances and reactive measures.

• Uncertainty Ahead: They acknowledge the unpredictable nature of Trump’s actions and the necessity for the Democratic Party to remain adaptable and resilient in the face of ongoing political turbulence.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein ([10:03] MM:SS):
  “They just feel like, so JV right now. It's just like they're playing in different leagues, like, entirely.”

• Lauren Egan ([10:26] MM:SS):
  “This is the first hour. That's fine. It gets a little crazy after that.”

---

Final Thoughts

The episode of Bulwark Takes provides a critical examination of the Democratic Party’s recent decisions and strategies in the wake of Trump’s enduring influence. Through insightful analysis and candid discussion, Sam Stein and Lauren Egan highlight the urgent need for the party to reassess its approach to effectively challenge and counteract the actions of Trump and his allies.

---

For those interested in the intricate dynamics of current American politics and the internal debates within the Democratic Party, this episode offers a comprehensive and thought-provoking narrative.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys. Me, Sam Stein, back again. All I do just YouTube all day. It's unbelievable. I'm here with Lauren Egan. Sunday, we're going to be talking about Democratic regrets. They have more than a few, I suppose. Before we do that, you know the routine. Subscribe to the feed. We're well over a million folks. This is a great feed. It should be on your to do list, if you haven't done already. Lauren, how's your Sunday going?

[Lauren Egan]

Hey, great.

[Sam Stein]

Yes, it's good. This is exactly what I wanted to be doing.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, same, same.

[Sam Stein]

Nothing beats YouTubing with Lauren Egan on a Sunday. All right, so we were talking about Sunday shows, and notably, not one, but two Democratic senators were asked this morning if they have regrets about voting for Marco Rubio. Now, I guess the, the context here is what happened with Zielinski in the Oval Office on, on Friday. Marco Rubio, I don't know if I could do the proper impression. He sat there like this, just, like.

[Lauren Egan]

Pull up the meme. So unhappy. He's not happy.

[Sam Stein]

And yet he, he, he put on a brave face and did the whole spin thing where he said Trump was incredible and rightfully, you know, standing up for America's interests. And so Chris Murphy and Chris Van Hollen both were asked about their support for Marco Rubio, his confirmation for Secretary of State. And we'll play it back to back. Here's what they said.

[Chris Murphy]

I did vote for Senator Rubio to be Secretary of State. I regret that vote because as a member of the Senate, Secretary Rubio was somebody who stood up for American values, American principles. He acknowledged that Russia was the aggressor against Ukraine. He realized that it wasn't Zelensky who was the dictator. And now he's simply taking his directions at the State Department from Elon Musk and essentially parroting the president's position.

[Lauren Egan]

You voted to approve his nomination to be Secretary of State. You still think you made the right choice?

[Chris Van Hollen]

Nope. It was a mistake. It was a mistake. I think a lot of us thought that Marco Rubio was going to stand up to Donald Trump on an issue like this. That when Donald Trump decided to. To align America with dictatorships again in order to make it easier for him to steal from the American people, to turn America into an illiberal democracy in which, just like Russia, the oligarchs, the economically powerful people in America rule, and the rest of us just feed the powerful.

[Sam Stein]

Two senators, both expressing regret. What do you make of it? Is this. Oh, were they, Are they naive to assume that this would come yeah, well.

[Lauren Egan]

Like, when Murphy was like, we thought he would stand up to Trump, it's like, why? Like, why? Like, like, what would make you think that? Like, we've seen enough now. Like, no one is going to do that.

[Sam Stein]

That was, that was my thinking.

[Lauren Egan]

Was there anything in history, like, I just don't believe that he actually thought that. You know what I mean? Like, so what do you think they.

[Sam Stein]

Thought when they were voting for the nominees?

[Lauren Egan]

I think it was like, all right, we know Rubio. We've been in Congress with Rubio. It could be worse than Rubio. So we're gonna, we're gonna say yes to Rubio.

[Sam Stein]

You know, there's also this thing. It's also this thing where Democrats feel like they have to show that they are bipartisan in nature. And, like, this was sort of.

[Lauren Egan]

Right.

[Sam Stein]

Relatively low stakes.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, yeah, right. And like, there's a point to that. Like, it could have been worse than Rubio from their perspective. So, you know, is that like the Hill you die on? Probably not, but still, like, none of them actually thought that he was going to get in there and act as, like, a serious check on Trump, at least. I don't buy that.

[Sam Stein]

Well, I guess. And then the question is like, were they naive? Because the first term didn't show that there were points in the first term, Trump's first term, where there were some pushback on the foreign policy stuff, but it wasn't like, substantial. Uh, so I guess maybe.

[Lauren Egan]

I don't know. I just feel like the amount of, like, ass kissing behind the scenes that, like, Rubio probably had to do to get this nomination, it's like, you seriously think that he's gonna turn around and five weeks in, like, act as some sort of, like.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, well, that's the other thing. What. What did they expect him to do in this specific moment? Was he gonna say, how dare you, Donald? And, like, storm out of the, like.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, I don't understand, like, what they thought was gonna happen, but whatever. They got to do their thing on the Sunday show. Like, I get it, but.

[Sam Stein]

Right, so you've been. But you've been reporting a lot on Democrats and the kind of divide that's existing between the party's base and the lawmakers. And obviously there's a lot of frustration out there that the party hasn't done enough to fight Trump. And I suppose there's some frustration that they did give sign off to some of these nominees. Not that they could have held them up. It only takes 50 votes. But talk a little bit about your Reporting and how, how that pertains to this specific situation.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, I think there's like, you know, a sense, especially among base Democratic voters, that the party could be doing a lot more to be pushing back against Trump. And, you know, I think like, Democrats have a role to play in shaping public opinion. And it seems like, you know, these first five weeks they've kind of just like given in or just like let Republicans kind of like, you know, control the narrative and run with things instead of like trying to pick fights or trying to sort of shape public.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, but let me, let me play devil's advocate. Like, what, what, what could they do? Like, even if they hadn't voted for Ruby, he was going to get confirmed, right?

[Lauren Egan]

Totally fair. Yeah, he was going to get confirmed. But it's like, do you want to win on that? Do you want to win on public opinion? Like, I don't know. If you just let like, Trump kind of. I think that there's, you know, and like, James Carville obviously, like made this argument in a New York Times op ed. Was it last week that like, Democrats should roll over and play dead? So there is one.

[Sam Stein]

Is that like a real school of thought? I. I feel like that's James.

[Lauren Egan]

There's a James Carville school of thought that I guess.

[Sam Stein]

I mean, there's, there's something to it. I just want to explain to the view of what he means.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Stein]

He basically is saying Trump and Elon are gonna dig their own graves and you shouldn't get in the way of it. And only when Trump's down To like high 30s, low 40s approval rating is when you should. Democrats should start going after him. I don't know if I buy it, honestly. I feel like it also sort of. Don't you want to expedite him getting into.

[Lauren Egan]

Well, that's the thing. It's like we don't know what that timeline is, you know? Right. Like, that could. Sure. It could happen in a few months. It could also happen in like, I don't know, like 2027. Like, we don't know when that's going to happen. So like. Sure. If you just want to see what.

[Sam Stein]

Happens premised on this idea that they're just like, Trump will just fuck up. I mean, I mean, sure, there's a lot of history.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. And it's premised on this idea that again, that Democrats don't have a role to play in shaping public opinion. They do. That's why that argument from Carville, I'm just like, okay, like, I don't know.

[Sam Stein]

So Bernie Sanders was out today, and he basically was like, I don't agree with that. He's like, I think we have to fight all the fights, more or less. There is this new sort of burgeoning school of thought among Democrats that they just have to go at it. Like, they have to, you know, take more and more swings that they were almost too passive early on. And I guess that's where this Chris Murphy, Chris Van Holland stuff is from, is that, you know, there's just no reason to. To give to Trump, especially if he's going to do stuff like what he did with Zelensky in the O office or if he's just going to hand over the keys of the car to Elon Musk when it comes to government spending. So that's like the new school of thought.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. And I mean, I think, like, if they're actually, like, trying to sort of, you know, ramp that up a bit, obviously, like, they're gonna have to get a bit more creative than just going on the Sunday shows and saying something.

[Sam Stein]

Right.

[Lauren Egan]

But, yeah, you're starting to see it, like, crack a little bit.

[Sam Stein]

Well, that was my. So that was. The other thing is that happened. And I guess this gets to, like, the whole, can you be more creative and can be more hyperactive like Elon, you. Did you listen to all three hours of Joe Rogan with Elon or.

[Lauren Egan]

No, No. I know you told me to, but no, I thought I couldn't make it. It was like 5pm on Friday, and I was like, I got halfway through.

[Sam Stein]

You were at 2. 2 times speed, though.

[Lauren Egan]

Okay. I had to. Two times speed is too intense. It, like, I felt like my mind was going to break. Like, it hurt. It hurt.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, fine. I, I will just say I had to do that, everyone.

[Lauren Egan]

Did you listen during the campaign?

[Sam Stein]

During the campaign? Yeah, I listen to, you know, some people are.

[Lauren Egan]

That one wasn't three hours, though.

[Sam Stein]

It was three hours, him and Trump. Yes, it absolutely was. It was long. Anyways, on the, on the Joe Rogan experience, Elon Musk did call Experience. It's an experience. He called Social Security a Ponzi scheme. And I'm old enough to remember when that would get you in real trouble.

[Lauren Egan]

Like, and this is where. This is where, like, the Carvel thing, I'm like, what? Like, they're, like, handing Democrats, like, cards for them to play. Like, play it if you're trying to win here, you know, like, what are you doing?

[Sam Stein]

But I totally agree. And they all. The thing that the, like, I think the Only thing from Schumer was some written statement being like, how dare you?

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. Or something. Yeah, yeah. It's a Sunday. I get it. But no, wait. Okay, so it's been a full 48 hours. They've had plenty of time to, like. I don't even know. Yeah, like, what? What on earth?

[Sam Stein]

So Bernie was out there and he's talking about it, and I know a few others were talking about it, but, like, I just gotta be honest. If you gotta be more. If you wanna. It just feels to me like Republicans are at a different pace. It's like watching a power walker and a sprinter.

[Lauren Egan]

No, it's like.

[Sam Stein]

Like sometimes the sprinter's gonna fall on his face, and that's.

[Lauren Egan]

They just feel like, so JV right now. It's just like they're playing in different leagues, like, entirely.

[Sam Stein]

Well, we'll see if they pick it up, but it's not going well so far. All right, Next time when there's a Joe Rogan experience and it's three or four hours, you just gotta. Gotta grin and bear it. I'm sorry.

[Lauren Egan]

I'm in. I'll do it.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, right. You're a liar. You're just lying. All right, Lauren, thanks so much.

[Lauren Egan]

This is the first hour.

[Sam Stein]

That's fine. It gets a little crazy after that. All right, Lauren, thank you so much. Thank you, guys for watching. Really appreciate it. Always subscribe to the feed. Be in touch.