Bulwark Takes: Rubio Regret Sets In After Insane Trump-Zelensky Meeting
Release Date: March 3, 2025

Host/Author: The Bulwark

Introduction

In the March 3, 2025 episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Sam Stein and Lauren Egan delve into the unfolding political fallout following a tumultuous meeting between former President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. The episode primarily focuses on the emerging regrets among Democratic senators over their previous support for Marco Rubio’s nomination as Secretary of State and explores the broader implications for Democratic strategies in countering Trump’s influence.

Democratic Regrets Over Marco Rubio’s Nomination

The episode opens with Sam Stein highlighting a significant development: two Democratic senators, Chris Murphy and Chris Van Hollen, have publicly expressed regret over their votes approving Marco Rubio as Secretary of State. This regret stems from Rubio’s perceived alignment with Trump’s policies, particularly in the aftermath of the controversial Trump-Zelensky Oval Office meeting.

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Murphy ([01:29] MM:SS):
  “I did vote for Senator Rubio to be Secretary of State. I regret that vote because as a member of the Senate, Secretary Rubio was somebody who stood up for American values, American principles. He acknowledged that Russia was the aggressor against Ukraine. He realized that it wasn't Zelensky who was the dictator. And now he's simply taking his directions at the State Department from Elon Musk and essentially parroting the president's position.”

• Chris Van Hollen ([02:07] MM:SS):
  “Nope. It was a mistake. It was a mistake. I think a lot of us thought that Marco Rubio was going to stand up to Donald Trump on an issue like this. That when Donald Trump decided to, to align America with dictatorships again in order to make it easier for him to steal from the American people, to turn America into an illiberal democracy in which, just like Russia, the oligarchs, the economically powerful people in America rule, and the rest of us just feed the powerful.”

Analysis of Senators Murphy and Van Hollen’s Regrets

Sam Stein and Lauren Egan dissect the senators' statements, questioning whether Murphy and Van Hollen were overly optimistic or naive in their initial support for Rubio. They ponder whether the senators genuinely believed Rubio would act as an effective check on Trump or if they merely saw him as the lesser of two evils.

Key Points:

• Optimism vs. Realism: Lauren Egan challenges the senators' belief that Rubio would stand up to Trump, suggesting that their expectations might have been unrealistic given Rubio's track record.

• Political Strategy: The hosts speculate that Democrats may have seen Rubio as a manageable nominee within a polarized Senate, opting for a pragmatic approach rather than outright opposition.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Egan ([03:08] MM:SS):
  “I think it was like, all right, we know Rubio. We've been in Congress with Rubio. It could be worse than Rubio. So we're gonna, we're gonna say yes to Rubio.”

• Sam Stein ([03:49] MM:SS):
  “And yet he, he put on a brave face and did the whole spin thing where he said Trump was incredible and rightfully, you know, standing up for America's interests.”

Broader Democratic Strategies Against Trump

The conversation shifts to the internal dynamics within the Democratic Party, particularly the tension between the party’s base and its lawmakers. The hosts discuss how some Democrats feel they have been too passive in their opposition to Trump, leading to frustration among voters who expect a more aggressive stance.

Key Points:

• Divided Party: Lauren Egan notes the divide between Democratic lawmakers and the party base, emphasizing the pressure to balance bipartisanship with effective opposition to Trump.

• Strategic Approaches: The discussion touches on differing schools of thought within the party, referencing James Carville’s op-ed advocating for a passive approach until Trump’s support wanes, contrasted with Bernie Sanders' assertion that Democrats must actively fight every battle.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Egan ([04:58] MM:SS):
  “I think there's like, you know, a sense, especially among base Democratic voters, that the party could be doing a lot more to be pushing back against Trump.”

• Bernie Sanders Reference ([07:50] MM:SS):
  “Bernie Sanders was out today, and he basically was like, I don't agree with that. He's like, I think we have to fight all the fights, more or less.”

Impact of Public Opinion and Shaping It

Sam Stein and Lauren Egan explore the role of public opinion in shaping Democratic strategies. They argue that Democrats need to be more proactive in influencing public perception to counteract Republican narratives and regain control over the political discourse.

Key Points:

• Public Opinion as a Battleground: The hosts assert that Democrats have a crucial role in shaping public opinion, which has been neglected in favor of reactive measures.

• Strategic Communication: Emphasis is placed on the need for Democrats to engage more creatively and assertively in media and public forums to effectively communicate their stance against Trump’s policies.

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Egan ([05:28] MM:SS):
  “Democrats have a role to play in shaping public opinion. They do. That's why that argument from Carville, I'm just like, okay, like, I don't know.”

Discussion on Joe Rogan’s Elon Musk Interview

The episode also touches upon Elon Musk’s controversial statements during his appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience, particularly his characterization of Social Security as a Ponzi scheme. Sam Stein and Lauren Egan critique the Democratic response, suggesting it has been tepid and insufficient in addressing such provocative claims.

Key Points:

• Insufficient Response: The hosts criticize Democratic leaders for their lack of a strong rebuttal to Musk’s remarks, viewing it as a missed opportunity to defend social programs and counter misinformation.

• James Carville’s Strategy: They link this to James Carville’s advocated strategy of minimal confrontation, questioning its effectiveness in the current political climate.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein ([08:15] MM:SS):
  “On the Joe Rogan experience, Elon Musk did call Experience. It's an experience. He called Social Security a Ponzi scheme. And I'm old enough to remember when that would get you in real trouble.”

• Lauren Egan ([09:17] MM:SS):
  “They're, like, handing Democrats, like, cards for them to play. Like, play it if you're trying to win here, you know, like, what are you doing?”

Conclusion and Future Outlook

In closing, Sam Stein and Lauren Egan express skepticism about the effectiveness of the current Democratic strategies in countering Trump’s maneuvers. They highlight the need for a more dynamic and assertive approach to regain momentum and address the challenges posed by both Trump and influential figures like Elon Musk.

Key Points:

• Need for Creativity: The hosts call for Democrats to adopt more creative and proactive strategies rather than relying solely on traditional media appearances and reactive measures.

• Uncertainty Ahead: They acknowledge the unpredictable nature of Trump’s actions and the necessity for the Democratic Party to remain adaptable and resilient in the face of ongoing political turbulence.

Notable Quotes:

• Sam Stein ([10:03] MM:SS):
  “They just feel like, so JV right now. It's just like they're playing in different leagues, like, entirely.”

• Lauren Egan ([10:26] MM:SS):
  “This is the first hour. That's fine. It gets a little crazy after that.”

Final Thoughts

The episode of Bulwark Takes provides a critical examination of the Democratic Party’s recent decisions and strategies in the wake of Trump’s enduring influence. Through insightful analysis and candid discussion, Sam Stein and Lauren Egan highlight the urgent need for the party to reassess its approach to effectively challenge and counteract the actions of Trump and his allies.

For those interested in the intricate dynamics of current American politics and the internal debates within the Democratic Party, this episode offers a comprehensive and thought-provoking narrative.