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Sarah (1:01)

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Sam Stein (1:30)

Hey everyone, it's me, Sam Stein. I'm here right after taping a segment on MSNow with Nicole Wallace. We spent a lot of time talking about this explosive piece on White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles that came out this morning in Vanity Fair. If you haven't seen it yet, go check it out. It is two separate pieces built off of 11 separate interviews that Susie Wiles conducted. The author, Chris Whipple, who has written the book on White House Chiefs of staff. I'll let you watch the Ms. Now clip with Nicole. I'm kind of curious for how you feel about what I said and also just sort of the piece in general. So please drop some comments in the feed. I'll take a look at them. What struck me about the reaction to the interview is just how perplexed everyone is. And we're not talking just about, you know, the the Republicans. I mean that we could spend a lot of time there. The general reaction from Republicans is why did she do this? Why Vanity Fair? What was she possibly thinking? And all those are very valid questions. I actually don't really understand why she chose to do this. We're talking about someone who's incredibly reclusive. She doesn't do interviews, she never tweets. In fact, today in respons response to the Vanity Fair piece was, I believe, the first time she had posted an original tweet since October 31, 2024. It's over a year. That's a lot of time. She just doesn't speak to the public. She did speak to Vanity Fair 11 separate times on the record. And it's just a sort of curious decision, especially because this administration rarely works with non maga outlets, at least in this fashion. Part of me wonders if it's just because they like the allure of Vanity Fair and they really just wanted to get their photos done and look all glitzy and glamorous and, you know, part of, you know, some of them think, well, Democrats get to have all the fun and be in Vanity Fair. Why can't we do it? And so maybe they decided to set sit down for that reason, which is kind of hilarious. But it's not just Republicans who are perplexed by this. I've been talking to some Democrats too, obviously, I think it's fair to say they're fairly giddy with what Weil said because she affirmed basically the most critical characterization of Trump you could possibly imagine. Right. She called him sort of unencumbered narcissist, someone with an alcoholic personality. She more or less copped to the idea that there is political retribution happening. She described the Letitia James and James Comey cases, which are dormant right now but could come back. She described them as politically motivated, just as if that were of course obvious, when in reality that's both an absurd thing to admit and potentially legally damaging in a court of law. She talked about some of the most temple policy pursuits of the administration as failures. The tariffs she criticized the impact them doge very critical of that. US Aid, the cuts to that program she thought was, you know, calamitous. Some of the deportations, she was very critical of that. She went after Cabinet members. Right. She went after Pam Bondi. She went after J.D. vance, both of them in the Cabinet. Russ fought, went after that guy, called him a zealot notable who wasn't actually in for criticism here. We can save that for another day. But she was very Nice about Bobby Kennedy. Well, note that. So anyways, Democrats are looking at this like what the heck is going on? Why would she do this? And a few of them I talked to today speculated that she is trying to cover her ass, that she's on her way out, wants the record to be shown that she objected in real time to this administration and hopefully she can wash her hands of it. I don't know if I buy that you don't give that many interviews over that long a period of time if the goal here is for cya. Right. You just don't because otherwise you would do it once and get out the door. The other speculation is is she trying to signal to some degree to Trump that he needs to pull back a little bit? Again, it just doesn't make sense if you're doing that many interviews over that many periods of time to try to send a signal to the boss. Besides, you could just do it in private. So what is she doing and why is she acting this way? I mean, my theory, as you'll see on msnow, well, I'll leave that for you to watch. But I talked to one really top Democratic operative about this. I didn't get his permission to go on the record. So I'm just going to use it on background for now. He writes this. I think she looks at this at times and says this is not smart and this is why the thing she doesn't say is and if you do it, you'll do without me. There's always been this tension there. This person says of ours she's a rational actor working for a deranged person. Maybe being the child child of an alcoholic has conditioned her for this. Try and stop destructive behavior, but if you can't facilitate it as best you can. I think I sort of agree with that, that she's trying to facilitate something. I think where I disagree is that she might find the behavior destructive, but she doesn't view it as her job to stop it. She views her job as someone who needs to execute on orders. So that's the point I made during my msnow appearance. Hope you enjoy it. And like I said, give me your feedback in the comments. I'll take a look. Appreciate you tuning into Bulwark takes. Subscribe to the feed and we'll catch you later.