Sam Stein: The Government is Telling You Not to Believe Your Eyes

Summary

Bulwark Takes Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Sam Stein: The Government is Telling You Not to Believe Your Eyes
Date: January 25, 2026
Host: The Bulwark (Sam Stein, Managing Editor)
Theme: Dissecting the official response and media coverage of the police shooting of Alexander Preddy, an ICU nurse, by ICE agents in Minneapolis.

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Episode Overview

In this urgent edition of Bulwark Takes, Sam Stein reacts to government spokesperson Greg Bovino's appearance on CNN with Dana Bash, following the shooting of Alexander Preddy by ICE agents. The episode centers on the increasingly Orwellian disconnect between the government narrative and the video evidence, media responsibility, and the real-life impact of police violence on citizens and constitutional rights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shooting of Alexander Preddy: Timeline and Facts

• Event: Alexander Preddy, 37-year-old ICU nurse, was shot by ICE agents in Minneapolis while attempting to help a woman whom ICE agents had pushed.
• Eyewitness & Video Account: Multiple videos show Preddy intervening after seeing a woman being pushed, then being pepper sprayed, subdued by several agents, disarmed, and shot.
  • "Preddy was coming to the aid of a woman who had been pushed by ICE agents... Those ICE agents then pepper sprayed Preddy in the face. This is all on video." (Sam Stein, 03:36)
  • "They had four or five agents on him... They took his gun, which he was legally allowed to have, and then they shot him." (03:48)
• Aftermath: No CPR performed; ICE agents currently on administrative duty but will likely be reassigned elsewhere.

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2. Greg Bovino's Media Appearance: Narrative Versus Reality

• Shift of Blame: Bovino claimed the ICE agents were the true victims, not Preddy.
  • "The victims are the border patrol agents... The suspect put himself in that situation." (Bovino, 02:38)
  • Stein names this "one of the more Orwellian interviews" seen in recent memory.
  • "It’s not the person who was shot and killed who’s the victim. It’s the person who shot and killed the person." (Stein, 02:49)
• Denial of Video Evidence: When confronted about the video showing Preddy being disarmed before being shot, Bovino insisted the video could not be trusted until an investigation was complete.
  • "Dana, you don’t know he was unarmed. I don’t know he was unarmed. That’s freeze frame adjudication of a crime scene via a photo." (Bovino, 07:34)
  • Dana Bash presses for clarity, counters with direct video evidence.

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3. Questioning Government Logic and Accountability

• Double Standards: Critiqued the willingness of officials to speculate about Preddy’s intentions without awaiting investigative outcomes, yet their refusal to comment on plainly visible video evidence.
  • "Greg Bovino can say that this dude... came to the scene in order to confront law enforcement agents... but he won't adjudicate a freeze frame clip from a video? I mean, give me a break." (Stein, 08:38)
• Rights and Protest: Emphasizes the right to protest and observe law enforcement.
  • "He was there to protest. That's a right. He has it." (Stein, 05:50)
  • "It’s basically, you cannot protest the state or the state can shoot you, is what he’s saying." (Stein, 06:30)

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4. Propagandistic Rhetoric and Demonization

• Accusations Against Preddy: Bovino alleges without evidence that Preddy intended to "massacre" officers, claiming the intervention "prevented a massacre."
  • "Good job for our law enforcement in taking him down before he was able to do that." (Bovino, 10:33)
  • He blames “heated rhetoric” from local officials for inflaming Preddy.
  • "Did this individual fall victim, as many others have, okay, to that type of heated rhetoric." (Bovino, 11:27)
• Stein’s Response: Calls out the Orwellian nature and dishonesty.
  • "They're just very comfortable, very comfortable lying." (Stein, 09:43)
  • "Again, I've used it a couple times, but it's Orwellian. People know what they see." (Managing Editor, 11:56)

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5. Remembering Alexander Preddy

• Who Was Preddy: ICU nurse, VA hospital worker, described by colleagues and friends as kind, compassionate, and community-minded—not a radical.
  • "He was literally a choir boy, a boy scout by all recollections from people who have known him." (Managing Editor, 12:13)
• Emotional Moment:
  • 00:13:40–00:14:06 – Clip of Preddy reading final honors at his father’s funeral:
    • "Today we remember that freedom is not free. We have to work at it, nurture it, protect it..." (Mac Randolph reading Preddy's words)
• Testament from Mac Randolph (friend/colleague):
  • "Alex was an example of brimming human compassion, doing one of the hardest and most honorable jobs you can do. Caring for veterans in their time of need... The real heroes are the nurses and the doctors that work at the VA hospital, not the untrained thugs murdering our heroes in our would be peaceful streets." (Managing Editor reading Mac Randolph, 14:30)

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6. Media Responsibility and Moral Stakes

• Calling Out Lies: Stein argues journalists must not pretend both sides are equally credible when clear evidence of government lying exists.
  • "You don’t have to treat it journalistically. As he said, she said... No, the correct journalistic instinct right now is to say I see video in my own eyes. You are lying." (Managing Editor, 15:20)
• Obligation to the Public: Urges directness and honesty in reporting to honor victims and combat misinformation.
  • "Our obligation is to be honest and straightforward with the public about what happened here." (Managing Editor, 15:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:38 | Greg Bovino | "The victims are the border Patrol agents... The suspect put himself in that situation." | | 03:46 | Sam Stein | "They had four or five agents on him... They took his gun... and then they shot him." | | 06:30 | Sam Stein | "It's basically, you cannot protest the state or the state can shoot you, is what he's saying."| | 07:34 | Greg Bovino | "Dana, you don't know he was unarmed. I don't know he was unarmed. That's freeze frame..." | | 08:38 | Sam Stein | "He can conclude all that without any investigation and... he won't adjudicate a freeze frame?"| | 10:33 | Greg Bovino | "Good job for our law enforcement in taking him down before he was able to do that." | | 12:13 | Managing Editor | "He was literally a choir boy, a boy scout by all... who have known him." | | 13:40 | Mac Randolph | "Today we remember that freedom is not free. We have to work at it, nurture it..." | | 15:20 | Managing Editor | "You don't have to treat it journalistically. As he said, she said... The correct... is to say I see video in my own eyes. You are lying." |

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• 01:22–02:49: Introduction, context of shooting, Bovino’s CNN appearance
• 02:50–04:00: First major soundbite—ICE agents portrayed as “victims”
• 04:06–05:34: Legality of Preddy’s protest and response to “assaulting officers”
• 06:54–08:38: Disputing video evidence, shifting of burden of proof
• 09:55–11:32: Allegations Preddy intended a “massacre,” blaming local rhetoric
• 13:28–14:06: Preddy honors his father; testament to his character
• 15:20–16:40: Concluding thoughts on media responsibility and ongoing injustice

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Tone & Language

• Direct, unsparing, and often incredulous regarding official statements.
• Sam Stein and the Bulwark team are openly critical of the government narrative, calling out misinformation and distortions.
• The conversation is urgent and mournful, particularly in discussing Preddy’s life and the responsibility of the media.

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Conclusion

This episode is a searing examination of how governmental agencies attempt to control narratives in the face of damning evidence, the duty of the media to challenge lies, and the real loss suffered by the needless killing of an engaged citizen. The Bulwark calls for clarity, courage, and compassion—not only in journalism but in public response to state violence.

Transcript

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[Sam Stein]

Supply hey everybody, it's me, Sam Stein.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Managing at the Bulwark. It is Sunday morning. We are one day removed now from the shooting of Alexander Preddy, the 37 year old ICU nurse in Minneapolis. You almost undoubtedly have seen coverage of this ICE agents firing multiple rounds into him and then you probably have seen the aftermath of it.

[Sam Stein]

But this morning Bavina went on CNN.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

With Dana Bash to talk about the.

[Sam Stein]

Incident and it was honestly one of.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

The more Orwellian interviews I've seen in.

[Sam Stein]

A long time on a Sunday show.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

It basically he asked you to just ignore your own eyes and he basically defied fact and truth and presented a narrative around the shooting that you would.

[Sam Stein]

More or less have to have never.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Seen the video and have no functioning thought ability for rational thought and independent rational thought at that to understand or to believe what Bovino was saying.

[Sam Stein]

Let's start. We could start with any of these clips. I have four that I want to.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Play, so just bear with me. But I think it's worth watching all of these clips with respect.

[Dana Bash]

It feels as though in some ways you're blaming the victim here.

[Greg Bovino]

The victim. The victims are the border Patrol agents. I'm not blaming the border patrol agents the victim. Are the border Patrol agents the suspect? Police put himself in that situation. The victims are the border patrol agents there.

[Sam Stein]

Okay. The reason to start with that one is it just sets the tone for everything in his recollection and his telling. It's not the person who was shot and killed who's the victim. It's the person who shot and killed the person. Is a galling way to look at this. One thing Bina could have done is just said, we are letting this investigation proceed. We're not going to comment on it. Our sympathies are to the family, to everyone involved.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Law enfor enforcement's put in a tough position.

[Sam Stein]

We never want to see people die. Of course, we need to get to.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

The bottom of this before we talk about it.

[Sam Stein]

That's not what he did. The victims, he said, are the ICE.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Agents who shot and killed Preddy. It's just. It's just remarkable.

[Sam Stein]

Now, if you had watched the video, you would know that that's not exactly at all how it went.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Preddy was coming to the aid of.

[Sam Stein]

A woman who had been pushed by ICE agents. Those ICE agents then pepper sprayed Preddy in the face. This is all on video.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

They knocked him down. They pushed him down.

[Sam Stein]

They had four or five agents on him.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

They took his gun, which he was.

[Sam Stein]

Legally allowed to have, and then they shot him. I'm sorry, but that is not. That's not. That doesn't make the ICE agents the victim.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Of course. It's stupid. It's stupid. He thinks you're dumb.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, let's go on in.

[Dana Bash]

There's no evidence that he was perpetrating violence. And there's no evidence unless you have it, and we'd love to see it if there is, that he was intending to massacre law enforcement other than the fact that he was there and he had a gun lawfully.

[Greg Bovino]

He meant to be there beforehand. Again. Again, Dana, he meant he came there beforehand.

[Dana Bash]

How do you know that? How do you know that?

[Greg Bovino]

Because he was there.

[Dana Bash]

But all he was doing was filming and documenting it, which is legal. He was carrying a gun, which in Minneapolis.

[Greg Bovino]

I didn't say it wasn't and I didn't say it wasn't legal.

[Dana Bash]

So then what did he do that was illegal?

[Greg Bovino]

I assault federal law enforcement when he does that. That's an active law enforcement crime.

[Dana Bash]

Where do you see in the video.

[Greg Bovino]

That he decided to enter into?

[Dana Bash]

Where do you see in the video that he was assaulting law enforcement? Because from everything we have seen, law enforcement was assaulting him when he was there trying to help another individual.

[Greg Bovino]

Dana, law enforcement doesn't assault anyone. Follow directions of law enforcement. Follow directions of law enforcement in an active crime scene. It's very evident he didn't want to do that. Very evident that the other individuals didn't want to do that. And, you know, it's. It's too bad the consequences had to be paid because he injected himself into that crime scene. I can't say that enough. He made the decision to go there. We didn't make the decision to talk to him. We. We didn't even know that individual was in these crimes until he came into that crime.

[Dana Bash]

I want to go back.

[Sam Stein]

So there you have Bavino basically saying that Preddy decided to be there, and therefore he is.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

What, you know it's right that he was shot.

[Sam Stein]

He meant to be there beforehand.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Was the quote.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

No.

[Sam Stein]

Who gives a shit? He was there to protest. Who gives a shit? What difference does it make? He was there to. He was there to protest. That's a right. He has it. But in fact, he wasn't really just there to protest. He was there to help people who were being, you know, intimidated, assaulted, pushed around by ice. We know this because it's on video. And even if he was there to protest, it doesn't matter. That is a right. So Vivino makes no sense. He's got nothing there. He's got nothing there. And if the idea is that you are, you know, law enforcement's allowed to.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Assault you and even shoot you because you had.

[Sam Stein]

I don't know. What is he even saying?

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

You had the intention to be there.

[Sam Stein]

And watch law enforcement. Are we not allowed to watch law enforcement? It's really Orwellian stuff here. It's basically, you cannot protest the state or the state can shoot you, is what he's saying.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

If you take it to its logical.

[Sam Stein]

Conclusion, it's wild stuff. All right, let's keep going. Again, we're asked to believe stuff that we can see is not true.

[Dana Bash]

I want to go back to the gun, sir, because I think this is really, really critical. You can see an agent, and I just want to go to. Let's see here. Video 5. You can see a screenshot of an agent in a green jacket approach Preddy, and then he appeared to take a gun away. When the agent took the gun away, which seems as though it was Preddy's gun. That happened before Preddy was shot. Why was an unarmed man shot multiple times by law enforcement, by your border Patrol agents?

[Greg Bovino]

Dana, you don't know he was unarmed. I don't know. He was unarmed. That's freeze frame adjudication of a crime scene via a photo. That's why we have investigators. That's why we have an investigation that is going to answer those questions. How many shots were fired? Who fired shots? Where was the guns? Where were the guns located? All those questions are going.

[Dana Bash]

Sir, I just, I think you can.

[Greg Bovino]

See the screen in the investigation. We're not going to adjudicate that here on TV in one freeze frame there.

[Dana Bash]

Okay, it's not a freeze frame. We're show. We have, we're showing a video of one of your agents taking the gun away. And that happened before Preddy was shot.

[Greg Bovino]

We don't know that agent was taking any gun away. That could have been the agents because we don't know that the facts are going to come to light.

[Dana Bash]

So you're disputing the video.

[Greg Bovino]

That's what happened with an investigate. That's why we investigate.

[Dana Bash]

Well, with respect, you say that's why we investigate, but you're also drawing other conclusions that sort of fly in the face of waiting for an investigation.

[Sam Stein]

Thank you. Thank you, Dana Bash. Just so we have this straight, Greg Bovino can say that this dude, Alexander Preddy, came to the scene in order to confront law enforcement agents, prevent them from doing their job and to, I don't know, assault them. I mean, they called him an assassin, right? That's what Steve Miller, that he can conclude all that without any investigation and that therefore it's justified to shoot him, but he won't adjudicate a freeze frame clip from a video? I mean, give me a break. Also, it's obvious that they took the.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Gun from the guy.

[Sam Stein]

It's right there. It's on multiple videos. They themselves rushed to get out a picture of that gun on a car seat to their favorite news outlets. They themselves kept talking about how this man had a gun and therefore, who would go down to a scene with a gun armed like that? I mean, that's, that's the whole talking point. But now that you point out that he was unarmed, disarmed prior to being shot. Well, we don't talk about the gun.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Can't talk about the gun. Why would we talk about the gun?

[Sam Stein]

Who knows? Could have been multiple guns. If he had multiple guns, they would.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Have told Fox News he would have multiple guns. I mean, give me a break. These people, they're just very comfortable, very comfortable lying.

[Sam Stein]

And that's it. All right, last one.

[Dana Bash]

Well, you said yesterday that this looks like a situation where the individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement. What evidence do you have that he wanted to massacre law enforcement? Because all the videos that we have, and I do want to. We just have a still shot up now, but I do. Control room, want to play one of the other videos? Let's play video number one again. It doesn't look anything like he's trying to massacre. In fact, he was filming, and then it looked like he was trying to help another individual there who was pushed down by law enforcement, and then they went after him.

[Greg Bovino]

In fact, I believe that the fantastic training that our law enforcement partners have, the fact that they're highly trained, prevented any specific shootings of law enforcement. So good job for our law enforcement in taking him down before he was able to do that. And again, Dana, let's look at why he was there in the first place. Was he simply walking by and just happened to walk into a law enforcement situation and try to direct traffic and stand in the middle of the road and then assault, delay, and obstruct law enforcement? Or was he there for a reason? Did he fall victim to that violent and heated rhetoric by a Mayor Fry, Governor Waltz? Look, Dana, they're. They're. They're trying to portray Border Patrol agents and ICE agents as Gestapo, Nazi, and many other words. Did this individual fall victim, as many others have, okay, to that type of heated rhetoric.

[Sam Stein]

It's hard to describe what's happening here.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Kudos to the border patrol agents, the ICE agents, he says, for preventing a massacre.

[Sam Stein]

And then within the same, you know.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Graph, he's like, we don't know if.

[Sam Stein]

This guy had been just.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

His brain had been fried by anti ICE rhetoric and ideology, and he could.

[Sam Stein]

Have just shot up anybody.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Could have been a huge massacre.

[Sam Stein]

So kudos to our guys for taking.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Out the threat before it presented itself, before it manifested. I mean, again, I've used it a couple times, but it's Orwellian. People know what they see.

[Sam Stein]

This guy, Alexander Preddy, he was an.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

ICU nurse at a va. He was literally a choir boy, a boy scout by all, you know, recollections from people who have known him, who.

[Sam Stein]

Have talked to him, who have worked with him.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

He was a decent human being who was compelled to go there, compelled to go there because he was shocked at what was happening with ICE and he.

[Sam Stein]

Wanted to help people. And in that video, in the runup, it's all on video, he runs to help a woman who's pushed by ice. He throws himself in between ICE and this woman, and then I Slatches onto him, beats the hell out of him.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Takes his gun away from him, shoots him dead. And then they don't bother doing a cpr. They're according to an affidavit of counting the bullet wounds. And Greg Bovino wants to sit there and say, oh, this guy was trying to, who knows, probably massacre all these people. If not for not for those ICE agents, we would have had blood on the streets. Give me a break.

[Sam Stein]

It's just backwards to this point.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

About Alex Preddy, Our colleague got a.

[Sam Stein]

Comment from Mac Randolph who posted the.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Video of Preddy reading the final honors to his father. His father was a veteran. Alex was ICU nurse and his father died. Alex Preddy read the final honors.

[Mac Randolph]

Today we remember that freedom is not free. We have to work at it, nurture it, protect it, and even sacrifice for it. May we never forget and always remember our brothers and sisters who have been served so that we may enjoy the gift of freedom. So in this moment, we remember and give thanks for their dedication and selfless service to our nation in the cause of our freedom. In this solemn hour, we render our honor and our gratitude.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

And the videos just. It goes to show you that this wasn't some insane, deranged, anti ice lunatic. It was just a normal guy upset with what was happening in his community who went and demonstrated, practiced his first.

[Sam Stein]

Amendment rights alongside with his second amendment.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Rights and was killed.

[Sam Stein]

Mac Randolph writes, we are tired of being lied to.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

When does this end? Alex was the best of U.S. ice. And this administration has proven time and time again to be the worst of us. Alex was an example of brimming human compassion, doing one of the hardest and most honorable jobs you can do. Caring for veterans in their time of need, easing their pain and answering their questions even when those answers are hard to absorb. The real heroes are the nurses and the doctors that work at the VA hospital, not the untrained thugs murdering our heroes in our would be peaceful streets. This is not left or right. This is common sense human compassion. So yeah, Greg Bovino can go on TV and spout his it's lies. You don't have to treat it journalistically. As he said, she said. I thought Dana Bash did a good job, but you know, it's incumbent upon people who work in this industry to just call a lie a lie and not worry about feeling like, you know, I might come across as impartial. No, the correct journalistic instinct right now is to say I see video in my own eyes. You are lying. That's our obligation is to Be honest and straightforward with the public about what happened here.

[Sam Stein]

Alex Preddy's done.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

He's gone. He's dead. He's killed. We have an obligation to tell his story truthfully. But I'm left with one other comment from Bavino on cnn, which we're not gonna play the video for, but it does relate to these ICE agents. He was asked by Dana Bash, well, what's going to happen with them? Are they going to go back out into the field? Are they still employed by ice?

[Sam Stein]

And the answer is, yeah, they're still employed by ice.

[Managing Editor (The Bulwark)]

Bavino says they're now on administrative jobs in Minneapolis, which you might think, okay, at least there's that. They're not back out on the street. But then he added an addendum. They will be sent to another city when ICE moves their operations to another city, inevitably. And they will be back on the street. So Alex Preddy is dead for having exercised his constitutional rights. These vice agents will be back on the street because Greg Bevino, frankly, doesn't care. Pretty bleak morning, honestly. But we will be monitoring this stuff and trying to bring as much of it as we can to you. We appreciate your support. There's a separate conversation this morning that I had with Bill and Adrian. Adrian was in Minnesota, in Minneapolis, for a number of days. You should read his newsletter about the heroes there. It's really worth it. You should subscribe to the book if you can, so that you can support our mission here. We're trying our best to be honest, direct, and to really properly underscore the moral stakes happening in stories like these. And we appreciate your support. Thanks for watching.