Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes
Episode: Sarah & JVL Roast MAGA’s Weird “Trad” Fixation
Date: August 27, 2025
Hosts: JVL & Sarah Longwell
Overview
In this lively episode, hosts JVL and Sarah Longwell explore the right-wing "trad" fixation—especially the bizarre media takes around Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's engagement and conservative commentator Charlie Kirk's reaction. With humor and candor, they dissect why these "trad wife" and "women must submit" narratives keep spreading, what motivates figures like Kirk, and what it says about contemporary conservative culture. The conversation moves from media trolling to personal insecurity, and what healthy partnerships really look like, tying in trenchant commentary with plenty of laughs.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Engagement Heard Around the Right-Wing Internet
- JVL sets the stage for the episode with Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s engagement, then introduces Charlie Kirk’s viral reaction.
- [00:15] JVL: “Before we go, do me a favor. …Do me a solid, hit like, hit subscribe… All right, Sarah, you've been away. You came home from a legit vacation to the news that Travis Kelce had popped the question to Taylor Swift. And it was all cool until Charlie Kirk decided to talk about it.”
2. Charlie Kirk’s Comment: Trolling or True Belief?
- Kirk’s take: Taylor should “reject feminism. Submit to your husband. Taylor, you’re not in charge.”
- JVL and Sarah debate whether Kirk genuinely embraces this or is just out for provocative content.
- [01:18] Sarah: “I know that he plays football. I know that she sings. And unfortunately I'm more familiar with Charlie Kirk's.”
- [02:21] JVL: “I think she's the most gifted lyricist of her generation, honestly. But... Charlie Kirk here. I guess my question for you is, is Charlie Kirk on the level or is this just trolling?”
3. The Evolution of Charlie Kirk and MAGA “Trad” Culture
- Sarah details Kirk’s transformation from campus populist to “trad husband” and “women submit” evangelist.
- [03:47] Sarah: “I've now watched Charlie Kirk really evolve into one of these women-submit-to-your-husband guys… This cannot be overstated as a political phenomenon… he's turned into a trad husband, trad wife evangelist… much more conservative… marrying together the MAGA vibes with the trad wife ethos.”
- Sarah notes the audience to these speeches—young conservative women and men—shows something real, not just an online phenomenon.
4. The “Trad” Persona: Overcompensation and Hypocrisy
- JVL catalogs prominent right-wing “trad” or manosphere personalities whose personal lives don’t match their public image.
- [07:13] Sarah (provocatively): “When you say weird, do you mean gay?”
- [07:16] JVL: Provides examples (Jack Murphy, Jerry Falwell Jr., Mike Cernovich), noting, “so many of these guys, not to mention… a bunch of the super trad Catholic guys who are just clearly gay. …there’s so much weirdo over-compensation here.”
5. Insecurity Behind “Trad” Public Rhetoric
- Sarah’s theory: Men who need to loudly preach about women’s submission are exposing deep personal insecurity.
- [09:56] Sarah: “If you're the kind of guy who has to say, women's sports is so stupid... or ...like, women should submit to their husbands... I'm always like, oh, no one danced with you at the seventh grade dance, and now we all have to suffer through your nonsense because of it.”
- Ties “broken man theory” to tech/billionaire figures too—men acting out their emotional hangups on the public stage.
6. What Real Partnerships Look Like
- JVL offers practical wisdom, contrasting the “submit” model with happier, healthier partnerships.
- [11:01] JVL: "Having a partner who is submitting to you is going to be, like, weirdly unsatisfying and also make it all so much harder... you want somebody who's a partner, not part of the help... that's just what... you're gonna miss out on, like, all of the good stuff. Don't do that. It's weird."
- Sarah agrees, emphasizing mutual support rather than dominance.
- [12:34] JVL: “Real relationships aren't about dominance and submission. I'm sorry. Like, that's a kink. That's not a normal kind of relationship.”
- [12:34] JVL further: “Family life can be very, very hard… And you should have a partner to navigate all that together, not someone who works for you.”
7. Celebrity, Politics, and Making Things Better
- Sarah closes the point by contrasting Kirk’s choice to make something ugly out of joy (Swift-Kelce romance), versus fostering positivity.
- [13:48] Sarah: “You can either use your celebrity to make people feel good and… make things better or you can make things worse. And Charlie Kirk and the Taylor Swift thing is a perfect example of… a little beacon of something nice in the world. And Charlie Kirk has to turn it into his own weird pathology around his sense of insecurity with women.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Kirk’s fixation:
- JVL: “You know, she’s got to submit to her husband, like. Cause that’s. That’s just fucking weird.” ([03:17])
- On MAGA “trad” culture:
- Sarah: “Marrying together the MAGA vibes with the trad wife ethos. It's an interesting corner of the MAGA coalition. But Charlie Kirk... this is his shtick now: I am a biblical man. It's weird.” ([05:04])
- On insecure men and “trad” rhetoric:
- Sarah: “I'm always like, oh, no one danced with you at the seventh grade dance, and now we all have to suffer through your nonsense because of it.” ([09:56])
- JVL: “Real relationships aren't about dominance and submission. I'm sorry. Like, that's a kink. That's not a normal kind of relationship.” ([12:34])
- On what to aspire to:
- Sarah: “Be a Taylor Swift and Jason Kelce. Don’t be a Charlie Kirk.” ([13:48])
Timestamps for Highlights
- 00:15 – Setup: Taylor & Travis engagement, Kirk’s viral comments
- 01:18–02:21 – Sarah & JVL on Kirk: trolling vs. true belief
- 03:47–05:25 – Sarah on Charlie Kirk’s MAGA “trad” turn
- 07:13–08:35 – JVL runs through male “trad” hypocrisy and weirdness
- 09:56–11:01 – Sarah’s ‘broken man’ theory; JVL on healthy partnerships
- 12:34–13:48 – JVL & Sarah on real relationships, culture, positivity
Tone & Final Thoughts
True to The Bulwark’s style, the episode blends snark with sincerity. Both hosts skewer right-wing culture-war excesses, but also offer practical, lived wisdom about healthy relationships and resilience in a tough world. Sarah’s and JVL’s dynamic is at once comedic and critical, driving home their point: modern right-wing “trad” obsessions stem less from strength and more from insecurity—better to build each other up than buy into those pathologies.