Scott Jennings Threw a Fit on Live Television

Summary

Bulwark Takes — "Scott Jennings Threw a Fit on Live Television"

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: The Bulwark team (Tim Miller, Sam Stein, Will Sommer)
Date: May 2, 2026

Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes dives into a viral altercation involving CNN pundit Scott Jennings and young progressive Adam Mochler, analyzing both the fireworks themselves and what they reveal about right-wing media culture. The hosts also take a detour through the world of conservative cruises (including the first Gay Conservative Cruise), escalating feuds inside MAGA circles, and a bizarre Calista Gingrich video. As always, the discussion is sharp, irreverent, and loaded with inside media commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scott Jennings’ On-Air Meltdown (01:00 – 04:48)

• Incident Recap:
  Tim introduces the now-viral panel argument on CNN, where Scott Jennings loses his cool facing off against Adam Mochler, dropping at least one curse and gesturing aggressively.
• Panel Reaction:
  • Tim: “There’s even a curse. And I thought we should watch that together.” (01:15)
  • The group laughs about the cable news tradition of heated panels, noting this goes further than usual.
• Insights:
  • Sam has “never dropped an F bomb on a panel” (03:09) and doesn’t get why Jennings blew up—he didn’t seem that provoked.
  • Tim theorizes Jennings was “owned” by a much younger opponent and got “triggered. I think his cortisol spiked” (04:01).
  • Will points out Jennings was outnumbered by youth and left-wingers: “Scott maybe felt already like a little embattled” (04:37).
  • The group likens Jennings’ escalation to “Michael Tracy-esque” antics, with Tim joking: “meet me at the Hampton Inn after this, Adam Mockler.” (04:16)

Memorable Quotes

• Tim: “A 19 year old was owning him and his manhood was in question and he couldn't. He got triggered.” (04:01)
• Will: “The part where Adam just goes, ‘I was still in high school when you were effing up, buddy, and you’re doing it again...’ then he flips out.” (04:42)

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2. Right-Wing Media Dynamics & Conservative Cruises (05:03 – 11:08)

• Difficulty Defending the War:
  • Tim and Sam express skepticism about whether Jennings genuinely supports the war he’s defending, or if he’s just “playing the heel role” (06:07).
  • “He’s definitely become much more Trumpified than what he once was. And I think it’s been pretty lucrative.” — Sam (06:17)
• Gulf of America Cruise:
  • The team mocks the “Gulf of America Cruise” starring Jennings and radio host Larry O’Connor, joking about the questionable appeal and their personal price to appear.
    • Tim: “If it’s a conservative cruise... I’m like a monkey in a zoo ... I think $100,000 is the number for folks out there.” (08:34)
    • Sam: “I would do it for 99.9.99.” (09:09)
• Will’s Bulwark Cruise:
  The segment escalates into joking about launching their own “Will Sommer Cruise with the Bulwark.” (09:30)

Memorable Quotes

• Tim: “Imagine being at sea for a week. Scott Jennings and Larry o’[Connor]... Am I going to have to see Scott Jennings' nipples if I go on this cruise?” (07:45)
• Will: “You know, conservative cruises are a long time tradition ... I think Scott Jennings is by far like the biggest deal person on this cruise.” (07:57)

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3. The First Gay Conservative Cruise (10:15 – 14:56)

• Rob Smith’s Report from the Cruise:
  • Tim hate-follows gay conservative Rob Smith and plays clips of Smith on the “first annual Gay Conservative Cruise,” marveling at the crowd’s red MAGA shirts.
  • Rob describes “a very diverse movement,” with everyone from “super into the online MAGA thing” to just tax-averse Republicans.
• Hosts React:
  • Tim: “This is a nightmare. ... It’s one third of the boat is conservative homosexuals in red T shirts talking about how much they want to bang Rick Grenell.” (13:51)
  • Sam shares an anecdote about his family stumbling onto a New Year’s Eve boat in Israel that turned out to be a gay party. (15:01)
• Discussion on ‘Normalcy’:
  • Will and Tim push back on Rob’s claim that gay conservatives are “so much more normal than the Alphabet mafia.”
  • Tim: “You guys are all there in your matching red shirts and somebody apparently had a Hillary for prison shirt on ... what is your definition of normal?” (17:19)
  • Sam jokes: “Diversity in this case is some wear truly obnoxious T-shirts and others choose not to. Like, that’s the spectrum here, folks.” (17:44)

Notable Quotes

• Rob Smith: “Gay conservatives are so much more normal than the Alphabet mafia. … Everybody is so happy to be an out and proud conservative.” (13:42)
• Tim: “The notion that the MAGA movement was going to be really accepting and excited for gays. I feel like that’s waning.” (17:51)

---

4. Feuds & Lawsuits: Candace Owens, Loomer, and Erica Kirk (18:13 – 25:24)

• Candace Owens vs. Erica Kirk Feud Escalates:
  • Will: Loomer and Candace Owens are circulating rumors implicating Erica Kirk in her husband’s death, leading to a lawsuit from Kirk’s security chief.
  • Will: “The head of Charlie Kirk Security ... finally sued, represented by top DOJ official Harmeet Dillon’s law firm.” (19:52)
• Erica Kirk’s Media Presence:
  • All agree that Erica Kirk’s attempts to lead Turning Point USA—and her social media videos—have backfired, especially after her husband’s assassination.
  • Tim: “She's not good at it...” (23:22)
• Broader Commentary:
  • The hosts comment on political spouses taking over after a leader’s death, noting that Kirk is “subjecting herself to … cruelty” and the organization should have hired someone else. (23:01)

Notable Quotes

• Tim: “If I was married to an NBA player and they got assassinated, I wouldn't take over their role as the shooting guard of the team. ... She's not good at this.” (23:22)
• Will: “I mean, after a couple of months … people cut her a lot of slack ... but it's been a rough seven months in terms of her public image.” (23:51)

---

5. Calista Gingrich’s Bizarre Facetune Video (25:24 – 28:41)

• The Clip:
  • A video of Calista Gingrich, apparently smoothed within an inch of her life by Facetune, leaves the hosts both amused and unsettled.
  • Tim: “What is happening with her face? ... It is creepy. It takes you into the uncanny valley.” (26:16, 27:25)
• Digital Fakery & Legacy Politics:
  • Will: “Famously, she's a big fan of Facetune ... she doesn't give Newt the same treatment.”
  • Tim: “A little light face tuning ... but once you're teetering into, is this a human or ... a foreign species inhabiting our planet, that's a mistake.” (27:25)

Notable Quotes

• Tim: “Once you’re teetering into, ‘is this a human or some other kind of foreign species inhabiting our planet?’ that’s a mistake.” (27:25)

---

Additional Memorable Moments

• Cruise Pricing Joke:
  • Tim and Sam have a running bit about how much they’d have to be paid to appear on a conservative or gay conservative cruise:
    • “I think half a million.” (16:21, Tim re: Gay Conservative Cruise)
• Full Circle:
  • Sam notes that the episode begins and ends with “hands being too close to someone’s face” — a nod to both panels and Facetune. (28:41)
• Will’s Low Bar:
  • Will: “You put me up three hots and a cot. You know, I'll do it.” (09:16)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Scott Jennings CNN Meltdown: 01:00 – 04:48
• Conservative & Bulwark Cruises: 06:45 – 11:08
• Gay Conservative Cruise Clips & Discussion: 10:15 – 17:51
• Loomer/Owens/Kirk Feud & Lawsuit: 18:13 – 25:24
• Calista Gingrich Facetune Video: 25:24 – 28:41

---

Tone and Style

• Sharp, sardonic, deeply informed inside-media banter. Hosts riff on the absurdities of conservative media, poke fun at themselves, and never pass on an opportunity for a digression—especially if it involves cruises, face filters, or the existential woes of cable news talking heads.

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Conclusion

This episode of Bulwark Takes serves up a fast-paced survey of right-wing media’s most embarrassing and bizarre recent moments — from on-air meltdowns to the lonely realities of conservative-brand cruises. With a focus on the constructed spectacle of cable TV, performative politics, and digital fakery, the hosts remind listeners that the culture war, much like a cruise with Scott Jennings, often turns out more surreal and ridiculous than anyone could script.

Transcript

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[Tim]

Hey everybody. The trio is back. We are already being mean to each other in the green room. There hopefully is no HR people on this video and we're excited to be here with you guys. Me and Sam are going to be in California. May 20 in San Diego, downtown. May 21 in LA downtown. Get your tickets now. Well, Summer and I might have some live shows coming up too. We'll see. So just everybody's getting involved. Everybody's getting involved. It might be, might be happening, but come on down to SoCal. Come hang. All right guys, we've got a lot to cover today. A lot happening in the right wing media. But we do want to start with what's happened in the late at a legacy media outlet, which is cnn. Well, it's legacy media for now, I guess until the Ellison's take it over and turn it into, I don't know, make Scott have like four hour blocks of Scott Jennings. I don't know what's exactly gonna happen on CNN once Allison's takeover. You know, Bari Weiss's sister will probably have a show. Four hours of Scott Jennings TBD on what happens with Jake Tapper. So I want to play last night Jennings was going after my boy Adam Mockler and. And things got a little heated. That was. There's even a curse. And I thought we should watch that together.

[Host/Advertiser]

I mean honestly, they have been at

[Will]

war with us for 47 years.

[Tim]

We all know that Scott Jennings is more than happy to defend a war with a country that starts with the letters IRA that we are currently failing that is going to put us trillions and trillions of dollars more in debt. I was only a few years old While you were in the administration defending prior endless wars, now this war is failing.

[Host/Advertiser]

Eight weeks is endless to you, okay?

[Tim]

You said it was going to be six weeks.

[Host/Advertiser]

You have the attention span of a gnat, homie.

[Tim]

I debated you on TV four to six weeks ago when you said we were weeks away from it. Now you're making condescending remarks because you can't defend the fact that this war is not going your way. Wait one more time.

[Host/Advertiser]

Not going.

[Tim]

One political concession.

[Host/Advertiser]

Honestly, I'm not going to have this guy.

[Will]

Everybody hang tight.

[Tim]

Honestly, he's aware of this live tell.

[Will]

Everybody calm down. Okay? We're having a debate. Got her all over there in the corner.

[Tim]

Wow, Sam, you've been on a lot of panels on cable news you've had. There's been some heated moments. That's, that's a little different.

[Sam]

I've never dropped an F bomb on a panel. At least I don't think I have.

[Tim]

You definitely never pointed at somebody's face.

[Sam]

And was he even. Yeah, okay. I was going to say was Adam. Point was Adam.

[Tim]

I mean, Jennings turned around like, get your hand on my face. Like he was pointing at mler telling him to stop.

[Sam]

I mean, I was gonna make.

[Tim]

That's lost cool.

[Sam]

I was gonna make the note of Haraldo being there. Haraldo must have been just absolutely, like aroused by it all. It's like this is, like, this is Haraldo. Right? Like, he loves this, but also like the, the whole thing afterwards where Scott like felt like he needed to talk to Abby about. I'm not going to deal with this guy's hand in my face.

[Tim]

Like, I don't want.

[Sam]

I don't want to deal with this hand in my face. His hand really wasn't in his face. So I don't know what prompted it. It didn't seem like that serious an attack on Scott even. I don't know. Why did he blow up?

[Tim]

What prompted it is a 19 year old was owning him and his manhood was in question and he couldn't. He got triggered. I think his cortisol spiked.

[Sam]

His cortisol spike. But that's crazy, that type of reaction.

[Tim]

Yeah. I don't know. I think he felt like he got mogged very hard by Adam Mochler. And he looks at Adam Mochler and It's like, you're 12 and I can't. I'm losing badly to you. And so I'm going to try, I'm going to threaten to fight. I mean, it was kind of. It's Michael Tracy esque. A little bit. It's like, meet me at the Hampton Inn after this. Adam Mockler. I don't know, Will, what did you make of it? You're in cortisol.

[Will]

Yeah, in cortisol. Spiking up. You know, I think you're right on there, Tim. I think you can tell me. We have to also consider, you know, Kat Abu Ghazala, another kind of young left wing person is there too. So I feel like Scott maybe felt already like a little embattled. And then, you know the part where Adam just goes, you know, I was still in high school when you were effing up, buddy, and you're doing it again and another disaster for you. And then he just goes, ah, you know, he flips out.

[Tim]

Yeah. I also just think, look, when I was on Peers, I think I brought this up on our last trio, but like, they can't. Pierce can't find people to come on and defend the war. When I was on, I agreed to someone to argue about the war, and it was supposed to be Doug, the person that calls himself a pastor. And Michael Knowles. Michael Knowles didn't show up. And even Doug is not like, is more excited about bringing slavery back than he is about this war. Like, Doug wasn't like very, Like Doug was very kind of passive in his support for the war. And so it's like, it's hard to. And there are a handful out there. And, you know, you can have Mark Thiessen and Micropenis, Mark Levin. I've been like, they can't be on every pin channel, you know, and so it's tough. And I think Scott is in a situation where he's like playing the heel role where he has to defend everything. He's decided that that's his role. And. And it's like there's not a lot of good stuff to point to here.

[Sam]

Yeah, I think that's a big problem. Do you think Scott doesn't actually support the war and he just is like having to. He knows that this is his. His livelihood, is. He has to just carry the water.

[Tim]

Does Scott even think about what he really supports anymore? As I guess a question? You know, he's definitely not in character.

[Sam]

I think he's in character.

[Tim]

I mean, I'm fully in character.

[Sam]

So this is not. This is not me speaking. Sure. I don't think I'm speaking out of turn here because I think other people have made this observation about Scott, but, like, there's a. I didn't. I never considered a major source of any variety, but Like, I definitely talked to Scott over the course of years, many years ago, and he's definitely become much more Trumpified, much more Trumpified than what he once was. And I think it's been pretty lucrative to the guy, honestly. Right. Like he, that's it.

[Tim]

And he's got a lot of doors for him, including this Will flagged us right before he came on. I want to go ahead and put this up in the screen here. This is the Gulf of America cruise. A week at sea with those who share your values and perspective. Scott Jennings is the main character there. Mike Gallagher. I thought that was Roger Stone until I read the words there. But that's Mike. Mike. Larry O' Connor is like a local D.C. conservative. Talk radio.

[Sam]

Larry O'. Connor.

[Will]

Larry O', Connor, I believe, just got bumped up to national. They made a big deal about it this week. It's the 6am slot though, so, you

[Tim]

know, don't get too excited. 6am talk radio. So yeah, Will, I mean, you know, the conservative cruises are a thing always been, been happening for a long time. But the Gulf of America cruise with Scott. Imagine being at sea for a week. Scott Jennings and Larry o'.

[Sam]

Connor.

[Will]

Get that finger out of my face.

[Tim]

I like how they're all suit jackets in the picture as well. It's like, are these guys going to be shirtless? Am I going to have to see Scott Jennings nipples if I go on this cruise?

[Will]

Well, you know, as you said, I mean, look, conservative cruises are a, a long time tradition. You know, I believe our colleague Bill Crystal at least, and maybe some others have definitely, you know, hit the lido deck once or twice, you know, and so, you know, in this case, I do think this is a bit lower rent. We're kind of going down. I think National Review is out of cruise. You know, it's that, I mean, Scott Jennings is by far like the biggest deal person on this cruise.

[Tim]

Yeah.

[Sam]

How much do you get to be on this cruise if you're Scott Jennings, do you think, like, what are they paying you here? Who's doing this cruise, by the way?

[Tim]

I'll allow you to put this in my, like, from my perspective, how much

[Sam]

would they have to pay you, Tim?

[Tim]

I think $100,000. I think $100,000 a week at sea. You're trapped on a boat with people that like want to corner you. And all the time, I mean, if it's definitely, I mean, if it's a conservative cruise, anything. I'm trapped on a boat and I, and I'm like, I'm like A monkey in a zoo. Like, you're paying me to go and just clap the chimes and, like, walk around and talk. I have a life, man. I've got a. I've got friends. I've got family. Like, what. Why would I want to do. I don't. I wouldn't take my family on a cruise. I think a hundred thousand dollars is

[Sam]

the number for folks out there. I would do it for 99.9.99.

[Tim]

Okay.

[Sam]

You get a deal.

[Will]

Well, look, I mean, I think this shows. I've never been on a cruise before. I'm curious. I was going to say, look, I mean, you put me up three hots and a cop. You know, I'll do it.

[Tim]

You know, there you go. Why not? The Will. The Will Summer Bulwark Cruise is coming into focus right now.

[Sam]

Oh, man.

[Tim]

And the names right there, we already have the pun. It's the Will Summer Cruise with the Bulwark.

[Will]

Yes. I like that.

[Tim]

You could be the mc. All right, well, there. This isn't the only cruise out there that I wanted to chat with you guys about. We have a cruise themed episode. I came across this video on Instagram. I have a hate follow on Instagram, which is a gay conservative named Rob Smith. And occasionally, when I'm feeling a little feisty on Instagram, we'll argue with each other in the comment section of our Instagram post, which is a very healthy thing to do. Yeah, it's definitely what I should be spending my time on, but I came across this and it caught my eye. This is Rob Smith from the first annual Gay Conservative Cruise. Let's watch.

[Rob Smith]

All right, as you can see behind me, I am on the first ever gay, lesbian, Conservative Cruise. We are about to sail away right now. All these red shirts you see behind me are gay and lesbian Trump supporters. It is absolutely incredible. Thanks to Steve for putting this on at Right of Center events. It's absolutely incredible. The energy has been so good. Everybody is so happy to be here. Everybody is so happy to be an out and proud conservative.

[Will]

Looks like a lot of fun.

[Rob Smith]

And I gotta tell you, if you were not here this year, you definitely gotta be here next year.

[Sam]

Where are they? Is that a parking lot?

[Tim]

I want to go also, before we get out, your reaction. You know, everybody got a visual there. You could see the crowd size. Everyone there in the red shirts. Matt, can we look at the other video where Rob gives his top takeaways from the cruise?

[Host/Advertiser]

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[Tim]

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[Host/Advertiser]

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[Sam]

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[Rob Smith]

I'm on the first ever gay and lesbian conservative cruise. Here are three things that I learned about the gay conservative movement. Number one is that it's actually a very diverse movement. You've got the people that will wear T shirts that says, like, Hillary for Prison 2016. They'll wear Trump 45, 47 hats. They'll wear maga hats. Like, they're super into, like, the online MAGA thing. But also you have people that are just chill. Republican conservatives make money, don't want to pay taxes. You know, they voted for Trump, but they're not like, super into all of that MAGA stuff. So, you know, it's a very diverse group of people. The second thing that I learned is that gay conservatives blend within just basically mainstream straight world, probably better than a lot of the Alpha mafia does. This is not the entire boat. We've got about a third boat. So there are straight men and women and kids and all that stuff and kind of like corporate coexisting their children

[Tim]

on the gay conservative cruise.

[Rob Smith]

And number three, honestly, it's just gay conservatives are so much more normal than the Alphabet mafia. I mean, look, people want to have their cocktails.

[Tim]

You know, they're like, imagine you sign up for a cruise, okay? It's you, you brought your mom along. It's grandma's there with you. You've got your three kids, you're going to the cruise, you get onto the ship, you're excited for dinner and a show, some time by the pool. And it's one third of the boat is conservative. Homosexuals in red T shirts talking about how much they want to bang Rick Grenell. Like, what? That is? That is a nightmare.

[Sam]

You're like, I thought I was just here to see Scott Jennings. Where's Scott Jennings? Oh, wait, where's Larry o'? Connor?

[Tim]

What belt company did this? Is this carnival? Like this is an affront whatever boat coming. You cannot have a 1/3 full cake. If you can't fill up the boat, you can't have the cruise. Okay? I mean, we don't want like cruising sauna time between these fucking pudgy ass gay homos.

[Sam]

You can say this. You can.

[Tim]

Kids are running by. Kids are running by.

[Sam]

Yeah, it does. There's a story. Can I tell you a story about this? Almost this kind of happened to me. Not to this degree, and I was younger, but my family was on a trip in Israel and I was like 12 or something, maybe 11, and we were at the Sea of Galilee. This is going places. And it was happened to be New Year's Eve. And my sister, who's older than me, was like wanting to party. And because she was like 13, 14, she wanted to actually go out and do something. And so she organized our whole family, including my younger brother, who's like six years younger than me, to go on a boat on the Sea of Galilee that night. And so we're like, cool, we'll go on the boat. We all get on the boat and we look up and we notice it's all men on the boat. And it's just all men and just my family and they're all dancing with each other. So we're stuck on the Sea of Galilee with a bunch of his gay Israelis for New Year's Eve for hours. So yes, this would be an equivalent of that. Except they'd be conservative in this case.

[Tim]

Wow, that's quite the story. That was a formative moment for you, Sam.

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Tim]

Did you see anything?

[Host/Advertiser]

Was.

[Will]

It was a great new year.

[Tim]

Did you learn about paupers on that trip?

[Sam]

11 or 12. Actually, this does raise another question. How much would it, would you charge to go on that cruise?

[Tim]

The gay conservative?

[Sam]

The gay concerted cruise? Buck fifty?

[Tim]

I. I think half a million. Just so you guys know, we had some technical difficulties and I got Sam down to $49,000. On the Wills Wills Summer Cruise. So only 49,000. Sam's probably happening for Sam. Well, what did you have? There have been a lot of buzz about the gay conservative crews.

[Will]

This is really the first time hearing of it. I mean, I think I was looking at this website, this. This right of center, you know, gay cruise operation. And, you know, I think for one of their cruises, it's like 30 people. It looks like Rob's was a little bigger than that. I will say Rob is pretty willing to do stuff for a paycheck. I mean, he famously just took. A couple months ago, he took a trip to Qatar and was just like, Qatar is an amazing American ally. So the one other thing I wanted to note is like, you can see kind of the quandary of the gay conservative where he's like, the big difference with us. We can be around kids and it's like, okay, you know, I think liberal gay people can be around kids too.

[Tim]

I have kids. It's also very strange. It's like, we're normal. Are you. You guys are all there in your matching red shirts and somebody apparently had a Hillary for prison shirt on that was. That's a decade old. Like, what is your definition of normal? So it's like the Vance was like, the normal gays are with me.

[Sam]

You know, I like how the. Yeah, I like how the Peter Thiel,

[Tim]

whose diversity is melting.

[Sam]

Diversity in this case is some wear, like, truly obnoxious T shirts and others choose not to. Like, that's the spectrum here, folks.

[Tim]

Wow. It seemed like the turnout wasn't great, I guess, is really the big takeaway. I don't. I think that Rob is in. I think that Rob has a good grift going. I think he's realized this. But, you know, it's just the whole notion that the maga movement was going to be really accepting and excited for gays. I feel like that's waning, you know?

[Sam]

And this is the guy you engage on Instagram.

[Tim]

Didn't see a lot of hotties with bodies on that quiz either. I guess I'll throw that out there. All right, we have a couple other things. Wanna update us on Last Trio Video? We were discussing the Candace Loomer feud, which has escalated some. How could you escalate from tramp stamp and your husband is gay, you wonder? Well, this is how the screenshot of Candace sending a text saying Erica killed Charlie.

[Will]

Oh, that was put out by Turning Point usa. We saw Erica Kirk had this disastrous appearance where she dressed like a rapper or like a paramilitary and Then Turning Point said, oh, my gosh, we got to turn the heat up. And so they put out this text that Candace sent to a Turning Point employee who was kind of, like, under her sway and said, you know, you should ask Erica why she killed Charlie Kirk. Which was, like, pretty poor advice, I would say. But, you know, basically, this is all really ramping up. Laura Loomer dug up Candace's husband's DUI arrest and his mug shot. So let's take a look.

[Tim]

Let's take a look at that. Oh, he's kind of a handsome guy, George Farmer. It's too bad that he's. He's in the clutches of Candace. You would think he could do better.

[Will]

Oh, and he's rich too, you know, and they got married within, you know, like, a couple weeks of knowing each other.

[Tim]

It does raise questions. I don't want to be on the side of Candace, but it is. It is a little curious to meet somebody immediately get married when you have a lot of options. You know, generally you see the kind of minor. Minor notables, minor royals, you know, kind of playing the field a little more.

[Will]

So for a long time now, you know, people have been saying, when is someone going to sue Candace over this stuff? Obviously, Brigitte Macron is suing her over the trans stuff, but Candace had not been sued over the Turning Point stuff. So then on Thursday, the head of Charlie Kirk Security, who, as you can imagine, was very implicated by Candace and all these theories, guy named Brian Harpole, he finally sued, represented by top DOJ official, Harmeet Dillon's law firm. So you can see there's kind of like, some official MAGA backing here. So he's suing over a truly bizarre, you know, of all Candace's ideas, she had had this guy on who argued he saw Erica and this Brian Harpole guy at a military base the day before the assassination, suggesting that it was kind of this, like, deep state plot. So now he's suing over that.

[Sam]

Assume that Harmeet Dylan signed off on this and is orchestrating this.

[Will]

Well, you know, I have to assume that now that she's in government running the civil rights division, I would assume she's, like, not that involved. But, I mean, this is like an official, like, well, you know, it is called Dylan Law, you know, so, you know, I do think that this is like a group that is very much like a conservative movement law firm. Like, they've represented a bunch of other people in, like, defamate. They represented Loomer, you know, in the past. Now she's she's suing one of their lawyers or, you know, one of their attorneys did.

[Sam]

Can we talk a little bit about the Erica Kirk appearance? The video she cut from the studio wearing looking like Jamari Choi? A little bit. Why? Why? Why did she do that? What's the explanation? I'm not trying to, like, I'm honestly not trying to, like, I feel for her. She has to do this. And she went through another trauma at the White House Correspondent Association Dinner and, like, what people give her a lot of. And I'm not for that. But it does seem like at some point she should recognize that the more she puts herself out there, she's not doing herself any favors, I guess.

[Tim]

Does she need to do this? I've also. I've also been sympathetic. I cringe a little bit at some of the more over the top attacks on her, particularly in the wake of her husband's death. But it's been going on for a while now. She decided to take over an organization that's a political organization, and with that comes criticism and mockery. Like the Druski video, which was fucking hilarious.

[Sam]

I serve a righteous God and that is why we say our prayers.

[Tim]

Hilarious. But, like, I don't know, if I got assassinated next week, I don't think Tyler would take over the podcast. You know what I mean? It's kind of a rare thing. Like, every once in a while this will happen where a spouse will take over their. You know, it's usually the wife takes over their husband's mission. This does happen in politics from time to time. But, like, she doesn't have to do it. I mean, that's Andrew Colvitt. Guy is like. Seems like he's basically running TBUSA anyway. He could have done that. They could have gone and done a search and found someone else, you know, whoever is the most impressive of the little Nazis running their various campus organizations. Like, that person could have taken it over. Right? Like, I just. It's strange and she seems very volatile and emotionally unstable, and it's just like, why are you doing this?

[Sam]

Yeah, I mean, I give her some leeway for the emotional instability, but to your point, like, every time she goes public and this is. It happens every single time. It just doesn't really. I mean, she's just subjecting herself to this cruelty and maybe something is just like, fuck the haters, right? But at the same time, it doesn't seem like she does herself any favors by doing these types of videos.

[Tim]

She's also just not that good at it, which is like, the other Thing, Right. Like, she's just not good at it. And it's like, okay. I mean, the things I'm not good at, right. If I was right, if I was married to an NBA player and they got assassinated, I wouldn't take over their role as the shooting guard of the team. You know, Like, I can't. I'm not good at that. I can. And she's not good at this. And so I just think that would be.

[Sam]

Will do the. Do the people. Is there any, like, internal TPUSA gossip you hear about this or.

[Will]

No, you know, I. I hear from sort of people, sort of like tertiary TVOSA people. And I do think there is this sense of, like, I think after a couple, you know, a few months, people, I think, cut her a lot of slack because obviously she was grieving, facing these things. But I think as we're saying here, you know, it's been a rough seven months in terms of her public image and stuff. And for me, I think what was so crazy was this outfit. This, like, this all black, this kind of like, you know, whatever you want to call it.

[Tim]

Like a cat burglar.

[Will]

Yeah, like a cat burglar. And so I think after, like, a couple months of being like, okay, I think my instincts are off. Even if you're going to stay in this role, I think maybe let's have a more, you know, conservative, sort of less ambitious look for this, you know, and the. The other. The other thing I would say is that, like, you know, she mentions the Drew Ski skit, which you mentioned him. I mean, she said, you know, I've been taking all these arrows. You know, Candace Owens says I murdered my husband. There are comedians doing white face of me.

[Host/Advertiser]

I have comedians dressing up in whiteface.

[Sam]

I have people saying, I'm not fit to be CEO. And I have Candace Owens claiming I murdered my husband.

[Will]

And, you know, Ashley Sinclair and both Milo Yiannopoulos, after that video came out, they said, look, like Charlie Kirk loved when he was lampooned in the mainstream media, because obviously it's a sign of his success. It kind of makes more people aware of him. They said he would have, you know, had. Had Drew Ski done a whiteface thing of him, he would have been dining out on that for six months. He maybe would have done a video Drew Ski. And so, I mean, I understand that she's not up for that, but. But at the same time, it's kind of like what the modern media environment requires.

[Tim]

Yeah. Yeah. Rough all around for old Erica. Okay, what else do we have Here. I don't know what this is. I've just been told that there's a Calista Gingrich Facetune item that has been prepared for this video. And let's just take a look, and I'll be learning along with of yours. Hello, I'm Calista Gingrich, and I'm delighted

[Sam]

to celebrate National Apprenticeship week.

[Tim]

What?

[Sam]

As U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, I've seen firsthand the power of apprenticeship.

[Tim]

Play it again. Play it again. I was too far. I couldn't. I was scared. It's like an apparition.

[Sam]

Hello, I'm Calista Gingrich, and I'm delighted to celebrate national apprenticeship week. As U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, I've seen firsthand the power of apprenticeships.

[Tim]

What. What is happening with her face? What is that?

[Sam]

I don't know. Why did they do the blue screen behind her?

[Will]

I mean, that looks like the kind of thing in a movie that's like, welcome to the bunker. Like, the world as you know it no longer exists.

[Sam]

That does seem like that.

[Tim]

Can we just pull it up as a still? Can we pull it up as a still? I need to take more look at it.

[Sam]

Did they mean. What do they mean? But did they mean for the blue screen to have, like, a fake CGI backdrop on it and they just didn't put in, like. Was it, like, supposed to be, like, Switzerland, the Swiss Alps or something?

[Will]

Like apprentices?

[Sam]

Yeah.

[Tim]

It feels like this is supposed to be from the leftovers, like, type situation. I mean, that is spooky. That is spooky. Do you think her and nude are still kissing?

[Sam]

Yeah, man. They send. They put up pictures all the time on the golf course.

[Will]

That's. That sort of gets to another point. I mean, famously, she's a big fan of Facetune, Right. Where you kind of, like, smooth out your face and she doesn't give Newt the same treatment. Yeah. And so, you know, Newt will look like an old guy, and then she has, like, a totally smooth face. So I kind of assume the same thing's going on here.

[Tim]

Can I just tell everybody? Look, if you want to do something to make yourself feel better, like to your face or to your body, I'm for it. Okay. I don't do anything that would make you feel. I don't want to do anything that would inhibit your ability to be your true self. Just as an objective observer, though, if you overdo it on the face tuning, it is creepy. It takes you into the uncanny valley. Like, I would rather see a couple of your Wrinkles like, I would rather feel like you're a human that I can touch, who breathes, who has a beating heart, who gets excited in the bedroom. This does not look like that. This looks like a strange apparition, inhuman, that is very scary and makes me want to run away from you. And I see this in my personal life. I see some people that overdo it on the facetune, and I'm like a little light face tuning. Spruce things up a little bit. Little thought pick. Sweet. But once you're teetering into is this a human or is this some other kind of foreign species inhabiting our planet, that's a mistake. And if you just need. If you want somebody to just be a gut check for you on that, you can just shoot me a message with the draft and I'll do my best to review.

[Sam]

We've really come full circle on this conversation. We started with hands being too close to someone's face, and we've ended with face tuning. Look at that.

[Tim]

Well, there you go, Samstein. This is why you're usually in the host chair. We'll leave it there. Come see us in San Diego or Los Angeles. Subscribe to the feed. We're going. We are getting passed by some of these MAGA losers on YouTube subscriptions. So fucking subscribe right now. Please subscribe and tell your friends to subscribe and if you have a second account to subscribe on that one, too, just for fun.

[Sam]

And if we raise enough money from paid subscriptions, we will use those funds to pay for Tim to go on

[Tim]

a gay cruise for will Summer cruise. Will summer cruise brought to you by the Bulwark. We'll see y' all then. Bye.

[Host/Advertiser]

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[Tim]

Sometimes mom doesn't let me use my tablet.

[Host/Advertiser]

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[Tim]

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[Will]

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[Sam]

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[Will]

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