Scott Pelley Says the Quiet Part Out Loud

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Scott Pelley Says the Quiet Part Out Loud Release Date: May 27, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Sam Stein and Lauren Egan delve into Scott Pelley's impactful commencement address at Wake Forest University. They explore the broader implications of Pelley's remarks, particularly in the context of the Trump administration's actions against various institutions. The discussion also touches upon recent legal challenges faced by prominent organizations like Harvard University and NPR, highlighting a pattern of governmental pressure on entities perceived to be aligned with Democratic values.

Scott Pelley's Commencement Address

Sam Stein [00:00] begins the conversation by introducing Lauren Egan and her recent work on the Opposition newsletter. However, the focus quickly shifts to Scott Pelley's commencement speech.

Lauren Egan [00:58] reflects on Pelley's reputation as an even-handed and reliable journalist. She emphasizes the gravity of Pelley's message, noting that his alarm about attacks on institutions carries significant weight given his standing.

Key Quote:

Scott Pelley [01:55]: "But in this moment, this moment, this morning, our sacred rule of law is under attack. Journalism is under attack. Universities are under attack. Freedom of speech is under attack. And insidious fear is reaching through our schools, our businesses, our homes, and into our private thoughts. The fear to speak in America. If our government is, in Lincoln's phrase, of the people, by the people, for the people, then why are we afraid to speak."
[Timestamp: 01:55]

This poignant statement underscores the perceived erosion of foundational democratic principles, painting a dire picture of the current socio-political climate.

Context: 60 Minutes and Paramount Law Suits

Sam Stein [03:00] provides context about Scott Pelley's position at 60 Minutes, a news program owned by Paramount. He discusses the ongoing legal battle initiated by Donald Trump against 60 Minutes for allegedly editing Kamala Harris's interview transcript—a standard journalistic practice that 60 Minutes maintains was within their editorial rights.

Lauren Egan [03:44] concurs, highlighting the absurdity of the lawsuit given that such editing is commonplace across news organizations. The financial stakes are enormous, with the lawsuit seeking substantial sums, potentially in the billions.

Recent Actions by the Trump Administration

Sam Stein [05:00] shifts the discussion to more recent developments, citing two significant actions by the Trump administration:

1. Targeting Harvard University: The administration announced efforts to terminate the remaining $100 million in federal contracts with Harvard. This move follows the administration's recent restrictions on visas for foreign students at the institution.
2. NPR's Legal Battle: NPR is suing President Trump over an executive order aimed at cutting federal funding for NPR and PBS. The lawsuit alleges a violation of First Amendment rights, asserting that the President lacks constitutional authority to make such funding decisions unilaterally.

Lauren Egan [06:00] observes a shift in institutional responses, noting that entities like Harvard are now mounting swift legal resistance, contrasting with earlier instances where organizations might have sought negotiated settlements.

Institutional Pushback and Lawsuits

The hosts discuss the significance of these lawsuits as symbols of institutional resistance against governmental overreach. Sam Stein [06:56] points out the speed and determination with which institutions are pushing back, suggesting a growing recognition that compliance is no longer tenable.

Lauren Egan [07:32] elaborates on the broader pattern of attacks, emphasizing that the Trump administration's strategy extends beyond rhetoric to tangible actions aimed at undermining institutions perceived as left-leaning or supportive of Democratic causes.

Historical Context in Pelley's Speech

Sam Stein [04:50] highlights Pelley’s reference to historical classes—1861, 1941, and 1968—as moments when "history chose them." This comparison elevates the current moment to a period of significant crisis, akin to the Civil War, World War II, and the Vietnam War.

Lauren Egan [05:20] and Sam Stein [05:24] discuss the implications of this analogy, debating whether the current state warrants such a comparison. They acknowledge the severity and slow-burning nature of the current challenges, likening it to being a "frog in boiling water"—a gradual yet irreversible situation.

Comparisons to Other Commencement Speeches

The conversation briefly touches upon other commencement speeches, including those by high-profile figures like Ken Burns and Jeff Immelt. Sam Stein [09:02] reminisces about Jeff Immelt's unconventional approach, where he humorously read insults from student forums during his address, showcasing a different method of engaging with the audience.

Conclusion

Lauren Egan [08:14] and Sam Stein [09:40] wrap up the discussion by reflecting on the collective sentiment of institutional leaders who are increasingly unwilling to "play along" with governmental pressures. The episode underscores the escalating tension between established institutions and the Trump administration, framed within Pelley's urgent and evocative speech.

Closing Remarks: Sam Stein encourages listeners to subscribe to both the Opposition newsletter and The Bulwark's YouTube channel, emphasizing the importance of staying informed through these platforms.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Scott Pelley [01:55]:
  "But in this moment, this moment, this morning, our sacred rule of law is under attack. Journalism is under attack. Universities are under attack. Freedom of speech is under attack. And insidious fear is reaching through our schools, our businesses, our homes, and into our private thoughts. The fear to speak in America. If our government is, in Lincoln's phrase, of the people, by the people, for the people, then why are we afraid to speak."

• Sam Stein [04:37]:
  "And to hear him say it is remarkable."

• Lauren Egan [07:32]:
  "It's the Trump administration is doing basically everything that they can to destroy these institutions that they view as, like, working on behalf of the Democratic Party or as they seem aligned with the left."

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This detailed summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened. It highlights the central themes of institutional attacks, legal battles, and the historical gravity conveyed in Scott Pelley's speech, all contextualized within the ongoing political landscape.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark. And I am joined by Lauren Egan, who is author of the Opposition newsletter, which came out over the weekend. I don't know why we did it on Memorial Day weekend.

[Lauren Egan]

I'm sorry I asked for Sunday off. You know, that I was angling for that.

[Sam Stein]

Well, maybe that's why I made you do it. Anyways, it was a great one. It was about substack and how everyone in Democratic politics seems to be decamping towards that platform, which we love. Publishing publisher of the Bulwark as well. But we're not going to be talking about that. We're going to be talking about Scott Pelly and his commencement address at Wake Forest University and a few other tangentially related items about institutions under attack by the Trump administration. Before we get to that, as always, subscribe to our YouTube feed. We really appreciate it. And subscribe to our newsletter feed, too. Substacks where it's at. All right, Lauren, you start. Scott Pelley, Wake Forest, gives this kind of impassioned speech, doesn't actually mention Trump by name, but it's obviously about Trump.

[Lauren Egan]

So, yeah, it's pretty clear. I don't know. I grew up watching Scott Pelley, and to me, he's just always like this super, like, you know, even handed, like, even toned reporter. And that was a pretty. He doesn't mention Trump by name, but it's, it's really clear. It's really obvious. And he's not someone who sort of like, overstates things or sensationalizes things. And that's like his hope, whole reputation as a journalist. So I found this speech to be pretty interesting because he's someone when he's sort of raising the alarm bell like that and saying our institutions, journalism, academic, academics, like, everything's under attack. Like, my ears perk up when it's coming from him, for sure.

[Sam Stein]

Why don't we listen to what he had to say? This is just a portion of it. And then I have some other elements of the speech that I'll read out loud. But here's Scott Pelly at Wake Forest over the weekend delivering the commencement address.

[Scott Pelley]

But in this moment, this moment, this morning, our sacred rule of law is under attack. Journalism is under attack. Universities are under attack. Freedom of speech is under attack. And insidious fear is reaching through our schools, our businesses, our homes, and into our private thoughts. The fear to speak in America. If our government is, in Lincoln's phrase, of the people, by the people, for the people, then why are we afraid to speak.

[Sam Stein]

Okay. So, yeah, I mean, you're right. It's obviously about Trump, and it was kind of surprising to see Scott Pelly do it because he has this reputation. But I guess the context here is kind of important, too, which is that he is with 60 minutes, and 60 minutes is in this incredibly difficult position. I don't even want to say difficult. Like, basically, the journalists, they're all mad because the company that owns 60 Minutes, Paramount, is trying to settle a frivolous lawsuit where Trump sued them for. What was it they, like, edited Kamala Harris's interview transcript?

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, it was. Right. Like, all these news stations enter, for the most part, edit out these. Edit these interviews. And, yeah, they're pissed that they edited Harris's interview, even though that's standard practice. And, yeah, it's. It's pretty silly.

[Sam Stein]

And for, like. And for, like, tens of millions of dollars and. And maybe even billions, I can't even keep track. But. So Scott Pelley works at this institution that's under attack, and. And it's clear from just the tone that he's. He's pissed about it, he's angry about it. And. And this is. You know, he says, first, make the truth seekers live in fear. Sue the journalists for nothing. Then send masked agents to abduct a college student, a writer of her college paper, who wrote an editorial supporting Palestinian rights, and send her to a prison in Louisiana and charge her with nothing. Then move to destroy law firms that stand up for the rights of others. With that done, power can rewrite history with grotesque false narratives. They can make heroes, criminals and criminals heroes. They can change the definition of the words we use to describe reality. I mean, it's dark. Like, that's some dark shit right there. And to hear him say it is remarkable.

[Lauren Egan]

And I think we can talk about all these stories, I feel like, in silos. But to hear him say it and to tie it all together like that in one speech is like, you read that or you listen to it, and it. Yeah, it's dark and it's alarming and it's terrifying.

[Sam Stein]

And he said something about. He said. He tried to put a historical context in. In the speech. He said, the Wake forest class of 1861 did not choose their time of calling. The class of 1941 did not choose. The class of 1968 did not choose. History chose them. So he's putting this. This moment in. In. In the context of the Civil war, World War II in Vietnam, um, which I guess if you step back, you're like, Holy. Maybe that's overstating things, but maybe not.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Not in a time of war, but he seems. I feel like comparing the three.

[Lauren Egan]

I feel like that's always been kind of the hard. This hard thing about Trump. It's like, just how much trouble are we in? And it's like, you know. Yeah, it's not war. It's not something that maybe you're gonna, like, see overnight, but it's kind of like this, like, you know, and maybe.

[Sam Stein]

That makes it worse. Right? It's like. Yeah, it's long and slow, and you sort of. Yeah, you're. You're the frog in the boiling water. Exactly. So we had two stories that happened since then that kind of get to this. One is that this morning, two things happened. One is that the Trump administration announced that it's going to try to go after the remaining federal contracts for Harvard University. $100 million left. I. I'm shocked that they had anything left because last week I giggled and I'm sorry, I shouldn't be giggling. It's not funny. But last week they went after the foreign students who studied there, said they can no longer get visas to study, and then morning, they had went after $100 million left in federal contracts. And then the other thing is that this morning we got word that NPR is suing President Trump over his executive order that would end federal funding for NPR and pbs, saying it's a violation of their First Amendment rights. Quote, the president has no authority in the Constitution to take such actions. Lawsuit says in the contrary, the power of the purse is reserved to Congress. So you have Harvard sued over the foreign student visa thing, too. You have two lawsuits now from these institutions pushing back. I'll just say it does seem like you're beginning to see more forceful and quick, I should note, pushback from these institutions. The Harvard lawsuit was, like, within a matter of hours.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. Clearly, it's, like, not what we first saw with the big law firms, where it was like, oh, well, we'll figure out how to make a deal and, like, just get on with things. That. Yeah, it's changing. And I don't know, it's like the Trump administration is doing basically everything that they can to destroy these institutions that they view as, like, working on behalf of the Democratic Party or as they seem aligned with the left. And it's not just verbal attacks. Right. And I think there's just sort of like, a realization that playing along or trying to figure out sort of, like a middle ground with him, like, doesn't really work And I don't know.

[Sam Stein]

I feel like. I feel. I feel like there are people who continue to do it. Like, we were talking about this with last month, Gretchen Whitmer. Right. They're polled today has her at, like, 63 approval ratings in Michigan. Like, she's ascendant. And she played alarm. She went into the Oval Office. She had that famous photo. What was it?

[Lauren Egan]

This where she's, like, holding.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

Oh, God, don't do it. Yeah, but I think that's different than, like, Harvard, you know, where, like, that's just seen as, like, you know, Harvard can't play along.

[Sam Stein]

Like, what can they do? They're. They're getting completely eviscerated.

[Lauren Egan]

Right. I do think people have tried to do it, but it's just. You only just. I think you just get yourself sort of in, like, more, you know, sticky territory if that's the case.

[Sam Stein]

Right. You appease, and then you keep coming after you. All right, let's do this. Who is your commencement speaker?

[Lauren Egan]

Mine was Ken Burns. But it was nice. I heard it was nice. I didn't go to it.

[Sam Stein]

You didn't go to your graduation?

[Lauren Egan]

No, I went to my graduation. But our speaker sounds like, no, that's only. I could get my diploma. Our commencement speakers spoke the next night, before which I'm like, what college student is going to show up the night before?

[Sam Stein]

People who want to hear Ken Burns.

[Lauren Egan]

Sorry. Okay. I mean, I'm sure there's, like, a YouTube video of it.

[Sam Stein]

Did you watch it?

[Lauren Egan]

No, but now I might go back and watch it. This is like the conversation we had with when Trump went to Alabama and gave the commencement address.

[Sam Stein]

Yes.

[Lauren Egan]

It wasn't the actual graduation, and so, like, obviously students were doing other things.

[Sam Stein]

That's true. That's true. I'm still waiting on my records request from that University of Alabama. Get on it.

[Lauren Egan]

Okay, well, mine was watching this.

[Sam Stein]

Mine was Jeff Immelt. And it was funny because at the time, everyone was like, ah, we don't want Jeff Imalt. Then all these student forums online were, like, trashing the pick. And he. He. For a speech, he read from the. From the student forums.

[Lauren Egan]

No way.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. He's like, that's hilarious. Yeah, he's like. He's like, I just. And he's just going off. He was, like, reading off all the insults of him. It was really. It was really well done.

[Lauren Egan]

That's pretty good.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, that I do, too. All right, Lauren, thanks so much for doing this. Appreciate it, everyone. Subscribe to the opposition newsletter. Subscribe to the Bull work on. Subscribe to the bull. Work on YouTube. God, a lot of subscribing going on, but it's worth it, and we appreciate it, and we'll talk to you soon.