Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes

Episode: Sen. Brian Schatz: When You PUSH BACK, Trump Folds!
Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Sam Stein (The Bulwark)
Guest: Senator Brian Schatz (D-HI)

Main Theme

This episode explores Senate Democrats’ response to an ongoing government shutdown and the dynamics behind standing firm in legislative negotiations with Republicans and the Trump administration. Senator Brian Schatz offers a first-hand perspective on why the Democratic caucus is more resolute than in past standoffs, the consequences of Trump-era governance, the challenge of “rescissions”, and why direct pushback against authoritarian tactics is critical. The discussion balances policy specifics with broad civic and political themes—especially the importance of resisting authoritarian overreach.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Evolving Democratic Stance in Shutdown Politics

• Schatz distinguishes between his spring vote for a Continuing Resolution (CR) and his current firm opposition to further concessions (01:12).
• "The most urgent thing in front of us is that premiums are going to go up by 114% on average for about 22 million Americans." – Sen. Brian Schatz (01:17)
• He underlines that Democrats warned Republicans that continued brinksmanship would not be tolerated, countering the perception Democrats always “cave”.

2. Healthcare as the High-Stakes Flashpoint

• Schatz frames healthcare premium spikes as an immediate, nonpartisan crisis, with insurers’ warning letters giving the issue “unspinnable” urgency for both sides (01:50).
• He identifies a second layer: ensuring Democrats are still relevant in negotiations, thus upholding legislative checks and balances (02:45).

3. Political Psychology & Why Democrats Aren’t Folding

• Democrats are firmer now because "the parade of horribles" that might stem from a shutdown has, in some ways, already happened in advance (03:44).
• Schatz notes the importance of not allowing oneself to be bullied: “Politicians don't love to get shoved around.” – Sen. Brian Schatz (03:48)

4. The Bark vs. Bite of Republican Threats

• Sam Stein lists threats (firing federal workers, canceling projects, withholding pay), and asks if this is bluffing (04:52).
• Schatz responds that while threats are serious, many impacts have already occurred: “I’m not going to beg the monarch for mercy.” – Sen. Brian Schatz (06:46)
• He clarifies federal worker backpay is already protected by law, undercutting the administration’s intimidation tactics.

5. The “Rescissions” Debate Explained

• “Rescissions” are when the executive branch refuses to spend money already appropriated by Congress.
• For a short-term CR, Schatz can tolerate temporarily tabling this issue—but says it becomes central when negotiating full appropriations bills (07:48).
• He offers a peek behind the curtain: Republican colleagues are privately reassuring about not supporting future rescissions but won’t do so publicly.

6. The Perils (and Politics) of Rule Changes

• Discussion of possible GOP moves to end the legislative filibuster. Schatz avoids hypotheticals but warns this might mean Democrats lost the healthcare fight (09:13).

7. On the GOP’s Changing Healthcare Politics

• Stein highlights Marjorie Taylor Greene advocating for subsidy extensions; Schatz notes these tax credits are popular in Trump-voting, rural communities (10:46).
• “A doubling of a big part of your monthly expenses is unspeakable... when your prices double, then you're just frigging furious.” – Sen. Brian Schatz (11:19)

8. Shaping a Proactive Democratic Platform

• On what Democrats should offer: acknowledge cost-of-living crises, housing, energy, and the impacts of AI-fueled job disruption (12:55).
• “Democrats became the party of protecting a bunch of institutions… for a lot of people it's like, I don't know what the hell that is, but it ain't helping.” – Sen. Brian Schatz (14:43)
• Schatz floats bold ideas like a shorter workweek in response to AI, arguing that Democrats must show they’re not afraid of the future (13:11–15:10).

9. The Crisis in Chicago & Authoritarian Probes

• They discuss the chilling precedent of red-state National Guards going to blue states and federal threats to jail officials (15:31).
• Schatz asserts that Trump “probes the system for weakness” and backs off when met with strength: “Pushback actually works.” – Sen. Brian Schatz (18:28)
• Warning against fatalism: “People are now talking like it's already done, like he's already taken over. And this is not a democracy… that can be... a death spiral for people wanting to even get involved in the process.” – Sen. Brian Schatz (18:52)

10. Authoritarianism & Civic Resilience

• Schatz stresses that some things (the First Amendment, rule of law, not jailing political opponents) must remain non-negotiable (20:19).
• Despite alarm, he stays “hopeful while being as alarmed as I've ever, ever been.” (20:45)

11. On Hyper-Digital Trumpian Politics

• Lighthearted question: Has Schatz ever gotten a stray Trump DM? (“Never,” he says) (21:33).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Healthcare urgency:
  “The most urgent thing in front of us is that premiums are going to go up by 114% on average for about 22 million Americans.”
  — Sen. Brian Schatz (01:17)

• On Republican threat tactics:
  “I'm not going to beg the monarch for mercy.”
  — Sen. Brian Schatz (06:46)

• On the effectiveness of resistance:
  "Pushback actually works. … the road to authoritarianism is not some instantaneous switch that gets flipped. It is a question of where we resist, how smart we are in resisting, how disciplined we are in resisting, how determined we are in resisting.”
  — Sen. Brian Schatz (18:28)

• On Democratic messaging:
  “Democrats became the party of protecting a bunch of institutions and kind of like Atlantic Council vibes where it's like the global order must be preserved. And for a lot of people it's like, I don't know what the hell that is, but it ain't helping.”
  — Sen. Brian Schatz (14:43)

• On the need for hope and resolve:
  “Some things that are non-negotiable. The First Amendment is among them. The rule of law is among them. The idea that you don't jail your political opponents is among them. And so I'm still hopeful while being as alarmed as I've ever, ever been.”
  — Sen. Brian Schatz (20:45)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Introduction & Shutdown Dynamics: 00:30–03:44
• Healthcare Premium Crisis: 01:12–02:54
• On Democratic Resolve: 03:44–04:18
• Republican Threats & Actual Impacts: 04:52–06:46
• The Rescissions Debate: 06:47–08:47
• GOP, Filibuster, & Internal Republican Politics: 08:47–09:44
• Populist GOP & Healthcare: 09:45–11:22
• Proactive Democratic Policy Directions: 12:26–15:21
• Authoritarian Overreach & Pushback: 15:31–20:45
• Digital Politics, Trumpian Flubs: 21:05–21:40

Final Takeaways

This conversation illustrates the stakes and strategy behind Democratic resistance to Trump-era strong-arm tactics, focusing both on policy fights (especially health care and budget priorities) and the broader challenge of defending democratic norms. Senator Schatz highlights the need for hope, specificity in messaging, and disciplined, collective pushback—rejecting both fatalism and appeasement, while recognizing the political realities and dangers ahead.