Bulwark Takes Podcast

Episode Summary: "Sen. Chris Coons: Democrats Are Willing to Shut Down DHS Over ICE Abuses"

Release Date: January 30, 2026
Host: Sam Stein (Managing Editor, The Bulwark)
Guest: Senator Chris Coons (D-Delaware)

Overview

In this episode, Sam Stein interviews Senator Chris Coons about the Senate standoff over Department of Homeland Security (DHS) funding, with a particular focus on Democratic demands for statutory reforms on ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) and CBP (Customs and Border Protection) practices. The discussion spans the legislative process, political pressures, recent incidents of ICE abuses, oversight of the Justice Department, and foreign policy chaos, including Trump's Greenland episode. The tone is urgent but pragmatic, with Coons balancing process details and passionate dismay over recent developments under the Trump administration.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Legislative State of Play & Democratic Strategy

• Shutdown Looms: At the time of recording (Friday, Jan 26, 2026), a government shutdown seemed imminent, though progress had been made in negotiations.

  • [01:00] Sam Stein: "There will be at least a brief shutdown, but real progress has been made."

• Democrats’ Stance: The Democratic caucus unanimously refused to fund six major federal departments, including DHS, effectively forcing negotiations.

  • [01:54] Sen. Coons: "Every one of us voted against funding six major departments of the federal government... forced the White House to negotiate directly with Chuck Schumer. And they came to an agreement to meet our demand that Homeland Security be peeled off and then given a two week extension to negotiate... statutory constraints on ICE and CBP."

• Why Not Immediate Reform?: Immediate statutory reforms on ICE/CBP weren’t feasible due to the need for unanimous consent and proper legislative language.

  • [03:06] Sen. Coons: "The only way to do that is by unanimous consent. And that means we've got to get the consent of everyone from Ted Cruz to Tommy Tuberville, and we won't get it."

• Statutory vs. Executive Action: Democrats want reforms codified in law, not dependent on executive orders that Trump could easily reverse.

  • [04:22] Sen. Coons: "My caucus said we don't trust Trump, he could change his mind tomorrow and reverse an executive order. If this is in statute... then we can sue."

2. Demands for ICE & CBP Reform

• Specific Demands:

  • End roving patrols and random detentions

  • Require judicial, not just administrative, warrants for home raids

  • Ban enforcement actions in "sensitive locations" (churches, hospitals, schools)

  • Ensure accountability and officer identification (badges, names, no masks)

  • Clarify and monitor body camera use and data storage

  • [06:13] Sen. Coons: "The biggest harm that ICE and CBP have done is these roving patrols where they seem to be snatching people largely at random..."

  • [07:21] "Not going into sensitive locations... requiring accountability through visibility... ICE makes the argument their agents have been doxxed. I... do not think it is acceptable... to have masked, nameless agents roaming our country."

• If No Deal:

  • [08:59] Sam Stein: "Do you believe... 41 Democratic senators... would be willing to say we will shut down DHS unless these statutes are passed?"
  • [09:32] Sen. Coons: (Paraphrased) 41 is the minimum; the caucus is serious about holding the line if meaningful accountability isn’t achieved.

3. Recent ICE Abuses and Political Fallout

• Catalyst Events:

  • The killings of Renee Good and Alex Preddy by ICE/CBP agents, misrepresented as justified acts by Trump-aligned officials.
    • [04:22] Sen. Coons: "...the tragic and horrific killings of Renee Good and of Alex Preddy in Minneapolis in recent weeks."
    • [10:02] "Within a matter of hours you could see on a video that... they were lying. It wasn't true."

• Media & Political Backlash:

  • Prominent Republicans and the NRA joined civil liberties groups in criticizing the administration after the facts were revealed.
    • [10:45] "Your Second Amendment enthusiasts, NRA and others got very mad at President Trump for saying... he brought a gun to a rally. That's unacceptable."

• Trump’s Response:

  • Political pressure and the potential for losing ally support forced Trump to back down, replacing controversial officials and agreeing to negotiations.
    • [12:25] "Trump tried a sort of step down and walk back to kind of lower the temperature... it's the first time I've seen Trump genuinely back down in the face of national anger at his aggressive overreach."

4. Justice Department Oversight & Erosion

• Don Lemon’s Arrest & Bondi’s Role:

  • The arrest of journalist Don Lemon, orchestrated by Attorney General Pam Bondi, exemplifies the politicization of the Justice Department.
    • [13:31] Stein: "Attorney General Pam Bondi putting up a post that said this was done at her direction... the Justice Department has very much transformed itself into a tool for the president."
    • [14:22] Coons: "I voted against Pam Bondi... because I was confident that she would cave to Trump's demands... the most shocking recent instance... Trump on social media demanded that the attorney general move to investigate and indict people... which she then did."

• Oversight Prospects:

  • Coons calls for renewed Judiciary Committee oversight but expresses skepticism over the effectiveness or willingness to challenge the current regime.
    • [14:22] "Chairman Grassley... has championed the committee's oversight role... He has underperformed on that in this administration."

5. Foreign Policy: The "Invasion of Greenland" Debacle

• International Alarm at US Behavior:

  • European allies, especially Denmark and Greenlandic leaders, were deeply unsettled by Trump’s saber-rattling over Greenland, fearing U.S. unpredictability.
    • [16:51] Coons: "That this is batshit crazy. I'm not quoting them. I mean, what they said was this is unthinkable... In Denmark... after the Second World War... Denmark was one of the original NATO allies... They lost 52 Danes... highest of any NATO ally."
    • [18:26] "With Greenlandic leaders who said their children are terrified of an imminent American invasion."

• Trust Undermined:

  • Allies accelerate hedging against US unreliability—pivoting to China, India, South America.
    • [19:15] "Look at what our allies are doing. They are closing trade deals with China... actively talking about what Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney spoke about in Davos after Trump's actions and said we need to prepare for a world where we cannot count on the United States."

• Consequences of Trump’s Style:

  • Coons warns that treating foreign policy like a real estate negotiation has profound and lasting costs to American interests.
    • [19:56] "Trump's chaos, Trump's disrespect, Trump's lack of grasp of history and facts... You can't do that as president without deep and lasting costs and harm to the American people."

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On ICE/CBP Reform Needs
  • [07:21] Coons: “I do not think it is acceptable for us to have masked, nameless agents roaming our country.”
• On Trump’s Leadership
  • [12:55] Coons: “This is the first time I’ve seen Trump genuinely back down in the face of national anger at his aggressive overreach.”
• On Global Reaction to U.S. Instability
  • [16:51] Coons: “That this is batshit crazy. I’m not quoting them. I mean what they said was this is unthinkable, this is unimaginable, this hurts, this is just unimaginable.”
• On Rule of Law Crisis
  • [14:22] Coons: “Attorney General Bondi is trying to demonstrate that she is acting against Trump’s political enemies. And the Judiciary Committee has an obligation to conduct oversight.”

Key Segments & Timestamps

• [01:00-04:20]: Legislative background and Democratic shutdown strategy
• [06:03-08:59]: Specific reforms Democrats seek for ICE and CBP oversight
• [10:02-13:31]: Fallout from the Alex Preddy killing, political blowback, and Trump’s retreat
• [13:31-16:05]: Discussion of DOJ politicization, Don Lemon’s arrest, and lack of oversight
• [16:05-20:38]: Foreign policy fallout from Greenland incident and loss of allied trust

Overall Tone & Takeaway

The conversation is a candid look at high-stakes legislative brinkmanship, a pivotal moment for immigration enforcement accountability, the collapse of established political norms, and alarming signals about America’s standing abroad. Senator Coons is forthright in his skepticism, critical of Trump and certain federal agencies, yet focused on the practical work of legislating change. For listeners, the episode is a snapshot of legislative urgency, inter-party tension, and the broader consequences of American policy volatility.