Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes

Episode: Sen. Gallego: Trump Wants Venezuelan Oil and a Place to Deport Migrants
Host: Sam Stein (The Bulwark)
Guests: Senator Ruben Gallego (Arizona), Lauren Egan
Air Date: January 6, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features a candid and wide-ranging conversation with Senator Ruben Gallego on the fifth anniversary of January 6th. The main focus is American foreign policy under Trump, specifically recent moves in Venezuela and talk of military action against Greenland. Gallego, a combat veteran and vocal Senate critic of interventionist policy, discusses the underlying motives—oil and deportation deals—while connecting these international maneuvers to domestic political vulnerabilities. The discussion also grapples with the Democratic Party’s evolving stance on national security and the ongoing erosion of democratic safeguards since January 6th.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Combat Experience and Evolving Democratic Foreign Policy (03:03)

• Gallego’s Iraq War Experience:

  • Serving as a Marine in Iraq left Gallego wary of foreign interventions with dubious motives.
  • “I was there in an illegal war largely to satisfy George Bush’s, you know, lust to prove his daddy wrong and to get more oil money. Just drove me nuts.” (Sen. Gallego, 03:17)
  • The personal toll—friends lost, PTSD, rare cancers—fuels his anger at new calls for interventionism in Venezuela.

• Democratic Party Shift:

  • Unlike post-9/11, today’s Democrats are not rushing to support military actions for political cover.
  • “Democrats finally are understanding that the American public is not pro-war and we’re not afraid to push back on this administration.” (Sen. Gallego, 04:57)
  • The current generation of elected officials came of age during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars—a key reason for greater skepticism about interventionism.

2. Greenland: Trump’s Fantasy or Geopolitical Threat? (07:11)

• Context: Stephen Miller, Trump advisor, floats possibility of U.S. military action to annex Greenland.

• Gallego’s Take:

  • Dismisses any security rationale. “This has nothing to do with national security. This has to do with Donald Trump wanting to see a big, big island as part of the United States… This is all about humoring this dumb man.” (Sen. Gallego, 07:16)
  • Warns such moves would undermine NATO and embolden adversaries:
    “If we do anything in Greenland… NATO is destroyed at that point… and that’s when China and Russia can start picking off all of our former friends and allies.” (Sen. Gallego, 08:11)
  • Lambastes Trump’s inner circle: “Everyone else around him, they’re all a bunch of spineless idiots. They’ll just make up any excuses just to go along with it.” (Sen. Gallego, 09:09)

3. Senate Tactics & Republican Complicity (10:36)

• Blocking Military Funding Amendments:

  • Gallego introduced an amendment to block using funds for military action in Greenland.
  • Strategy: Force Republicans to take an explicit stand, creating public pressure.

• GOP Senators’ Private Dismay:

  • Some Republicans privately voice concern over Trump’s recklessness with NATO and Greenland, but “if I have to put them in the situation, they’ll actually do it. But in the meantime, they’ll be cowards.” (Sen. Gallego, 11:13)
  • “There is no foreign policy. This is just Trump—whatever comes up in his brain while he’s on the toilet… The biggest danger right now… is that he has had ‘success’ with these military operations, and the same time, he's failing domestically... A dumb person like Donald Trump is going to continue doing what he knows is working, which is...military success, and hopefully that'll make me more popular. The problem… at some point he's going to mess up and people are going to die.” (Sen. Gallego, 12:47–13:18)

4. The Real Motives in Venezuela: Oil & Deportation (13:24)

• Oil Motive:

  • Trump briefed oil executives and sought to boost U.S. oil access by striking deals with Venezuela’s dictator.
  • “He wants to be claimed victory. So his claim of victory is going to be oil production for the United States.” (Sen. Gallego, 14:19)

• Deportation Motive:

  • Administration struggling to find countries accepting deportees, especially Venezuelans losing protected status.
  • “Stephen Miller is going to negotiate so that way Venezuelans and other people… are going to be deported to Venezuela.” (Sen. Gallego, 14:41)
  • A “win-win” for Trump: oil for the U.S., deportations for domestic politics, dictator keeps power.

5. Political Messaging & Public Perception (15:21)

• Domestic Impact on 2026 Midterms:

  • Voters only care about anti-corruption when it lands close to home—like using U.S. military to aid oil executives.
  • “Most Americans do not care about foreign policy, especially when they’re barely making ends meet. And they’re certainly not going to care about it when it comes to oil and oil executives.” (Sen. Gallego, 16:32)

• Republican Vulnerability:

  • If economic anxiety persists while Trump focuses on flashy foreign interventions, Gallego predicts political trouble for the GOP.

6. January 6th: Lessons and Lingering Threat (16:45)

• Unbroken Cycle of Anti-Democratic Actions:

  • “There are January 6th moments happening right now. What do you think gerrymandering is?” (Sen. Gallego, 17:12)
  • Distinguishes between “actual insurrectionists” and “Brooks Brothers insurrectionists…dismantling democracy as much as they can by whatever means they can.” (Sen. Gallego, 17:28)

• Accountability & Regret:

  • Blames Merrick Garland for slow-rolling accountability:
    “Merrick Garland’s cowardice and his… want to protect the institution of the DOJ instead of the institution of democracy is what is the, the biggest problem that we’re dealing with right now.” (Sen. Gallego, 18:19)
  • Urges future Democratic administration to “appoint real defenders of democracy and not cowards like Merrick Garland.” (Sen. Gallego, 18:58)
  • Cites Brazil’s decisive prosecution of coup-planners as a model.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the motives for war:
  “We all knew they were lying to us the whole time… They got one, and they… invaded. And now you have the lies again from Marco Rubio, saying, well, this is a police action.”
  (Sen. Gallego, 03:49)

• On GOP courage:
  “I’m going to basically try to create that wedge.” (Gallego, re: forcing Republicans to vote against Greenland invasion, 11:19)

• On Trump’s unpredictability:
  “There is no foreign policy. This is just Trump. Whatever comes up in his brain while he’s on the toilet, and then it’s… a toy to him.” (Sen. Gallego, 12:47)

• On America’s place in the world:
  “These guys think because we are strong and we are the strongest, we could just bully, bully, bully, and there will be no pushback, there’ll be no repercussions. If you look at world history, that has never been the case.” (Sen. Gallego, 08:35)

• On Democratic mistakes:
  “The next time we find ourselves in this situation, we need to do what the Brazilians have done, right?… We have to understand the moment of time to defend democracy is immediate and not process-oriented…” (Sen. Gallego, 18:45)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:03 – Gallego on Iraq, Venezuela, and Democratic foreign policy shift
• 05:57 – Stephen Miller’s Greenland remarks played; Gallego’s blunt critique
• 10:36 – Gallego on tactics to block military action and Republican private/public splits
• 13:24 – Discussion of true Venezuela motives: oil and deportations
• 15:21 – Midterm messaging fallout and economic anxiety
• 16:45 – Reflection on January 6th, ongoing threats to democracy, and DOJ failures

Summary

Senator Gallego’s interview is a bracing indictment of Trump-era foreign and domestic policy as driven by personal whims, political cover, and elite interests—not national security. As a veteran, he is particularly attuned to “wars of choice” and their hidden, often oil-driven motives. He warns that Trump’s unpredictable, legacy-building impulses threaten both U.S. alliances and the health of democracy, especially as Republican officials privately worry but publicly acquiesce. The episode closes with a stark admonition: future defenders of democracy must act quickly and decisively, learning from failings since January 6th and from examples abroad, rather than prioritizing institutional process over foundational norms.