Bulwark Takes: "Sen. Kennedy Tried to Humiliate This Witness… It Backfired"

Host: Tim Miller
Guest: David Bier, Director of Immigration Studies at the Cato Institute
Date: March 17, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into David Bier’s recent viral Senate testimony on the impact of immigration, the surprising tactics of Senator John Kennedy (R-LA), and the broader implications for U.S. immigration policy. Host Tim Miller and Bier unpack not only the substance of the hearing but its spectacle, discussing the real-world effects of anti-immigrant policies—from family separation to labor shortages in Louisiana's crawfish industry—and, as a Cato Institute libertarian must, the case for abolishing the TSA.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. David Bier’s Senate Testimony

[01:25 – 04:32]

• Purpose of the Hearing:
  The Senate Budget Committee convened to examine the fiscal impact of immigration, particularly regarding "sanctuary cities." Bier was invited for his expertise and his team’s three-decade study showing immigrants reduced government deficits by $14.5 trillion.
• Top Line:
  David Bier:

  “Immigrants, when they come here, we basically get a free worker…they’re contributing to the economy, not sucking in resources.” [02:39]

• Key Stats:
  • Immigrants are less likely to use government benefits, especially federal ones like Medicare and Social Security, than native-born Americans.
  • They have a 12 percentage point higher labor force participation rate and pay more in taxes, on average.

2. Senator John Kennedy’s Viral Confrontation

[04:32 – 12:03]

• Kennedy’s Tactics:
  Instead of debating facts, Senator Kennedy read Bier’s social media posts aloud, accused him of hyperbole, and launched ad hominem remarks, e.g., "you trigger my gag reflex."
  Quote:

  "Don’t you think your hyperbolic statements undermine your credibility?" – Sen. John Kennedy [05:03]
  “What hyperbolic statement did I make?” – David Bier [05:10]

• Kennedy’s Examples:
  • Criticized Bier’s post about urging service members to refuse unethical orders (“Do you disagree? Do you think people should do unethical things in their capacity?” – Bier [05:51])
  • Objected to Bier’s assertion that mass deportation policies amount to "ethnic cleansing."
    Bier explains:

    “That was in regard to a [DHS Tweet] about advocating 100 million deportations. That is what DHS has tweeted from their own account. 100 million deportations would be ethnic cleansing.” [06:29]

• Memorable Moment:
  • Kennedy dodges substance, sticks to performative outrage.
  • The “Blue Ski” (Bluesky, a social platform) mispronunciation adds comic relief.
  • Tim Miller:

    "The only kind of charming thing about it for me…the malapropism on ‘Blue Ski.’" [07:10]

3. The Larger Landscape: Radicalization of Immigration Policy

[13:22 – 17:01]

• Anti-Immigrant Factions:
  Bier and Miller note there are two main groups:
  • True believers/ideologues who drive extreme policy
  • Those who downplay or ignore the radicalism, pretending no such policies exist or that reports are exaggerated.
• Unprecedented Policy:
  Policies now bar spouses and children of U.S. citizens from 90+ countries—even after applicants undergo vetting and pay fees.
  Bier:

  "If you're from one of those 90 countries, you cannot receive an immigrant visa. You're categorically barred..." [15:07]

4. Legal vs. "Illegal" Immigrants (and Political Manipulation of Data)

[17:01 – 20:36]

• Misinformation:
  Right-wing figures (e.g., Sager Enjeti) claim millions were let in “illegally” under Biden, conflating legal and humanitarian admissions with illegal border crossings.
• Bier’s Response:

  "There's not a distinction in their mind between the legal non-citizens and the illegal non-citizens. It's an invasion, in their view." [17:41]

• Mass Deportation Fallacy:
  Exaggerating numbers doesn’t justify mass deportation—it would only be more expensive and disruptive.

5. ICE Quotas, Racial Profiling, Surveillance

[20:36 – 23:39]

• Recent Oregon Case:
  Court testimony revealed ICE had arrest quotas and used facial recognition surveillance, contradicting Secretary Noem’s denials.
  Bier:

  "Any time...you have to make this number of arrests...you're making arrests of people who really shouldn't be arrested just to meet your quota." [21:04]

• Civil Liberties Violations:
  ICE's sweeping tactics result in vast overreach, detaining many citizens and violating civil rights.
  • In one incident, agents arrested 30 people but stopped/interrogated 300.

6. Impact on Local Culture: Louisiana’s Crawfish Shortage

[23:39 – 25:14]

• Economic Fallout:
  Miller notes Louisiana’s crawfish industry’s labor shortage due to lack of immigrant workers. Tim Miller:

  "If you're gonna be a hardline immigrant senator from Louisiana, I would think that he should at least fight for our cultural heritage...the ability to eat crawfish." [23:39]

• Bier:

  "We never have the hearing in Congress...immigrants are just supplying us with lots of good stuff that we really love..." [24:28]

7. Libertarian Corner: Abolishing the TSA

[25:30 – 28:30]

• Bier’s Take:
  Argues TSA is ineffective, political, and should be privatized—airports have the incentive to protect their customers.

  "We know the TSA is ineffective. Their own audits show that they're ineffective at the only thing they're supposed to be good at." [26:19]

  • Points out post-9/11 security could’ve relied on reinforced cockpit doors and other measures, not a government security force.
• Miller’s Banter:

  "You had me almost all the way there until the fighting pilots...I don't know if I want pilots with nunchucks..." [28:30]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bier on immigrant contributions:

  "They're getting, they're improving things at both ends of the spectrum when it comes to taxes and benefits in the United States." [03:55]

• On Sen. Kennedy’s attack:

  "He didn't really come with any arguments. He was just gonna, I'm gonna read these statements and they're gonna be self evidently show that this guy is hysterical..." [08:15]

• On ICE quotas and profiling:

  "Thousands, tens of thousands of Americans are being detained and harassed by ICE agents just based on what they look like." [21:47]

• On government hypocrisy:

  "Even with this senator who I just talked about...we're destroying the legal immigration system, which is affecting the crawfish suppliers in your state..." [24:39]

Timestamps for Significant Segments

• [01:25] – Bier explains the reason for his Senate testimony and key immigration fiscal findings.
• [05:03] – Sen. Kennedy’s viral confrontation begins.
• [06:29] – Explanation of “ethnic cleansing” comment and mass deportation math.
• [13:22] – Miller and Bier break down how anti-immigrant policies get normalized.
• [15:07] – Details on current bans for family-based immigration from 90+ countries.
• [17:41] – Bier details how current enforcement treats legal and undocumented immigrants alike.
• [21:04] – ICE quotas and civil liberties discussion.
• [23:39] – Louisiana crawfish industry, economic fallout of immigration restrictions.
• [25:30] – Bier’s libertarian argument: Abolish the TSA.

Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is sharp, evidence-based, and occasionally darkly comic—especially when Kennedy's interrogations backfire. Bier’s measured policy dork persona contrasts with Miller’s quippy, exasperated asides. Together, they expose how performative outrage distracts from the human and economic realities of immigration policy. The episode closes on a textbook Cato libertarian recommendation—privatize airport security, complete with playful debate about “nunchuck-wielding pilots.”

For further reading: Follow David Bier on X (and, apparently, “Blue Ski”).
Key message: "Focus on real policy, not out-of-context tweets and performative outrage—immigration, and sensible policy, matter to all Americans."