Sen. Shaheen: Trump Seizing Venezuelan Oil Tanker Puts Us At Risk

Summary

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Podcast Episode Summary: Bulwark Takes – Sen. Shaheen: Trump Seizing Venezuelan Oil Tanker Puts Us At Risk

Date: December 11, 2025
Host: Charlie Sykes
Guest: Senator Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH)

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Main Theme

This episode features Charlie Sykes interviewing Senator Jeanne Shaheen to discuss two pressing topics: the heated congressional battle over Obamacare premium subsidies and the increasing tensions in U.S.-Venezuela policy—specifically, Donald Trump’s highly controversial seizure of a Venezuelan oil tanker destined for Cuba. The conversation covers the domestic stakes for millions facing healthcare cost increases, the political gamesmanship on Capitol Hill, and the escalating foreign policy risks posed by executive military actions in the Caribbean, all within the context of a Congress struggling to assert its authority.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Obamacare Subsidies and Congressional Dysfunction

• Why the Debate is Front and Center

  • Sykes kicks off with the status of Obamacare subsidies after a government shutdown was ended without resolving the fate of “enhanced premium tax credits.”
  • Sen. Shaheen: She stands by her vote to reopen the government, arguing that highlighting Republicans’ refusal to renew subsidies has drawn attention to real-world consequences:
    • “It was going to mean a huge increase for those people who rely on those premium tax credits and result in about 4 million people losing their health insurance.” (02:20)

• Prospects for a Clean Extension:

  • Shaheen: Democrats will propose a 3-year clean extension, but it’s unlikely to pass due to lack of GOP support. (03:55)
  • A competing Republican proposal omits critical support for those struggling with rising premiums—also expected to fail.
  • Hope remains for a last-minute compromise.

• Health Savings Accounts Proposal:

  • Democrats oppose this favored Republican solution, as “currently those health savings accounts are prohibited from covering premium increases or the cost of premiums. So they don't really help with what people are facing now.” (04:51)

• Real-Life Impact Highlighted:

  • Shaheen recounts a shadow hearing with expert testimony and affected individuals:
    • “Already 10,000 people [in MA] ... had not renewed their health insurance.”
    • “The cost of uncompensated care, people going to the emergency rooms and not having health insurance is going to increase dramatically, $7.7 billion.” (05:51)

• Systemic Implications:

  • Rising uninsured rates will ripple across the system, including for those with employer insurance.
  • Shaheen’s sense of urgency:
    • “There's, as I said, real urgency to do this.” (06:43)

2. Political Haphazardness and Trump's Role

• Breakdown of Normal Legislative Processes

  • Sykes laments the disappearance of “actual hearings” and real debate. Legislative progress seems to hinge on direct intervention by Donald Trump.
    • Sykes: “It seems like the only possible ingredient for something passing ... is if you have direct engagement from Donald Trump himself...” (07:08)

• Trump’s Interference and its Impact

  • Shaheen: Trump floated a proposal that “sounded not bad,” but apparently never followed through after pushback from House GOP. (07:40)

• Personal Anecdotes Demonstrate Urgency:

  • Shaheen shares:
    • “One small business owner from Virginia ... are not going to be able to afford the increases ... they don't have any other option.” (08:28)
    • “A young couple who have young children have some health issues. And we're seeing that repeated over and over again...” (09:01)

• The ‘Over the Cliff’ Dynamic

  • Sykes: Do things need to “really get out of hand” before action is compelled? (09:11)
  • Shaheen: “I hope not. I hope that will prevail and that we can address this before people face those kinds of dramatic consequences.” (10:57)

• Foundational Security:

  • Shaheen identifies health care as one of 3 life basics people need for security, alongside a job and a decent place to live:
    • “And that's a basic that every American should be able to feel comfortable about.” (11:07)

3. Foreign Policy Crisis: Escalation in Venezuela

• The ‘Double Tap’ Boat Strike

  • Sykes pivots to the September 2nd Caribbean operation, where US forces conducted a controversial second strike (“double tap”).
  • Congress is demanding answers—Sen. Shaheen is among those requesting, but not receiving, briefings:
    • “So far those requests have not been granted. ... What's in [the video] that they're so worried that the American people might see?” (12:22, 12:50)
  • Shaheen calls for transparency:
    • “It's important for Congress to see this video, but the American people ought to see it too...” (13:00)

• Ousting of Admiral Halsey

  • Recent, mysterious shuffling of command in SouthCom; Shaheen defers on details but notes the successor “gave the order for that second boat strike. ... The circumstances are still murky about what actually happened there.” (14:11, 14:26)

4. Trump’s Announcement of the Venezuelan Oil Tanker Seizure

• Triggering an International Crisis

  • News breaks that Trump has seized a Venezuelan oil tanker headed for Cuba:
    • “We've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela ... Largest one ever seized, actually.” – Donald Trump clip (14:53)

• Shaheen's Immediate and Stern Reaction:

  • “It's a further escalation ... and again, it puts at risk Americans, puts at risk our men and women in the military. He's taking action without congressional authorization and risking a further, further conflict in Venezuela.” (15:23)
  • On the legality: “Unfortunately, the answer is yes,” he can do this “as long as people are not willing to prevent him.” (15:54)
  • Legislative efforts to rein in Trump have begun, led by Senator Kaine.
  • Key warning:
    • “We should not let the executive and the President get us into another war that the American people don't know about, haven't supported. And there's no transparency for what the President is doing.” (16:33)

• Sykes' Recap:

  • “No hearings, no rush, no rationalization, no legal justification. It's quite something.” (16:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Congressional Responsibility:

  • Shaheen: “Congress needs to act. We need to make our voices heard that we should not let the executive ... get us into another war...” (16:30)

• On Governing Fundamentals:

  • Shaheen: “There are some fundamentals that are critical for people to feel like they have security with themselves and their families... health care ... every American should be able to feel comfortable about.” (11:07)

• On Systemic Impact:

  • “The cost of uncompensated care ... is going to increase dramatically, $7.7 billion for that.” (05:51)

• On Executive Overreach:

  • Sykes: “No hearings, no rush, no rationalization, no legal justification. It's quite something.” (16:54)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:34] – Senator Shaheen joins the interview
• [02:20] – Shaheen defends her shutdown vote and stakes out consequences of lost subsidies
• [03:55] – Likelihood of passing Obamacare subsidy extensions
• [04:51] – Democrats reject Republican Health Savings Account proposals
• [05:51] – Testimony from shadow hearing, real-life stories of lost coverage
• [07:08] – Sykes on Congress’s dependence on Trump’s engagement
• [09:11] – Do politicians only act after crisis?
• [11:07] – Foundational American needs: health care as security
• [12:22-13:17] – Congressional stonewalling on Navy boat strike footage
• [14:53] – Trump announces oil tanker seizure
• [15:23] – Shaheen condemns executive escalation
• [16:33] – Calls for Congressional reassertion of war powers

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Conclusion

Senator Shaheen’s interview underscores grave domestic and foreign policy risks rooted in legislative gridlock and presidential overreach. On health care, she presents a dire portrait of looming mass coverage loss without swift congressional compromise or pressure, while expressing skepticism Congress is currently up to the task. Abroad, she warns of escalating military entanglement with Venezuela absent any congressional check on Trump’s power, urging bipartisan action to restore transparency and constitutional balance.

The candid, sometimes exasperated tone between Sykes and Shaheen highlights the stakes: a country at risk of falling into health and international crises, unless its institutions—and the public—reclaim their roles.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host]

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[Charlie Sykes]

Stein, managing Editor at the Bulwark. This is a Bulwark Take interview with Senator Jeanne Shaheen of the great state of New Hampshire, where I went to college, so I feel some affinity for New Hampshire.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

As always, Senator, thanks so much, I assume.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, yes, I did and I appreciate it. I take the assumption very pleasantly. Thank you very much. It's a great school. Senator, I want to talk to you about what's happening on the Hill today, and then I want to talk to you about what's happening overseas. But let's start with the Hill, because your chamber and the House are both engaged in this debate over what to do with the Obamacare subsidies. The the reason that this debate is happening is because you were part of a group of Democrats that made the decision to open the government or reopen the government, I should say, without a deal on the Obamacare exchanges. At the time, it was a very contentious decision to take that vote and to reopen the government. But now that the issue of subsidies for Obamacare is front and center, do you feel vindicated with your vote?

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Well, I think we made the point that people were gonna see a huge increase in the enhanced premium tax credits if Republicans didn't act. And when they passed the big betrayal bill, as I call it, in the summer, we tried to get an extension of those premium tax credits, which they did not approve. And so we wanted to point out that it was going to mean a huge increase for those people who rely on those premium tax credits and result in about 4 million people losing their health insurance. And that will have ripple effects across the whole health care system. So I think that point was made during the shutdown. We thought it was important to be able to ensure that there is a vote so that people will know who's responsible for the fact that those tax if those tax credits don't get extended and they'll be able to hold our Republican colleagues accountable in the elections next year.

[Charlie Sykes]

So the vote's coming up in a matter of days, maybe a day tomorrow. I was trying to be generous about who knows what happens on the floor and also when this comes out. But yeah, it's scheduled for tomorrow. This is recorded on Wednesday, the votes on Thursday. There's like half a dozen, maybe more proposals flying around. It's hard to actually keep track of what's happening. What are the prospects, what are the chances that you put of a clean extension? Maybe it could be a year, two years, three years potentially of these enhanced Obamacare subsidies. What are the chances you put of something like that passing through your chamber?

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Well, I think the proposal that the Democrats are going to put forward would be a three year extension, clean extension of the premium tax credits. I don't think that will pass. So far we haven't been able to get enough Republicans to say that they would support that. There will be a Republican proposal that was put out today by Senators Cassidy and Crapo that don't extend the premium tax credits and don't provide the kind of help that people really need to help pay their health care premiums. I think that will also fail. And then hopefully maybe we can get people to work together to see if we can't find a compromise that will address those increased costs of premiums. Because we've got to do something about those premium tax credits.

[Charlie Sykes]

Is it fair to say that Democrats are not on board with a version of the health savings accounts that have been so popular from Republicans right now?

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

I think that's correct because currently those health savings accounts are prohibited from covering premium increases or the cost of premiums. So they don't really help with what people are facing now. And there's real urgency about this because people have gotten their rate increases. They see what they're going to be paying. We had a shadow hearing earlier this afternoon, Senator Warner and I, with a number of Democratic senators. And we heard from experts like from Georgetown University, all the way to the woman who heads the Massachusetts Connector, who's dealing with efforts for people to get into the marketplace, to Susan Stearns, who heads the NAMI New Hampshire, which helps people who have substance use disorders and mental illness. And they all talked about what's going to happen if we don't extend these tax credits, the number of people in Massachusetts. I think she told us that there were already 10,000 people who had not renewed their health insurance. We know in New Hampshire we're going to have people who are not going to be able to afford those costs and renew. So it's going to have significant impacts, not just on the people who are losing their health insurance because of those costs, but on the whole health care system. We know analysis says that the cost of uncompensated care, people going to the emergency rooms and not having health insurance is going to increase dramatically, $7.7 billion for that. We know that it's going to have an impact on emergency rooms and the ability to provide coverage for people. So. And for those of us who have health insurance, employer sponsored health insurance, it's going to affect our rates too. So, so we've got to address this issue. And there's, as I said, real urgency to do this.

[Charlie Sykes]

It's funny, it's almost remarkable that you had a shadow hearing. I'm old enough, I report on the passage of Obamacare to remember actual hearings around health care policy where people were debating legislation and amending it. It's just absent from any of this discussion. And it does kind of get to sort of the lingering tension around the shutdown and I think around the debate over the enhanced subsidies, which is everything's happening in a very haphazard way. And it seems like the only possible ingredient for something passing through Congress, at least on the Republican side of the ledger, is if you have direct engagement from Donald Trump himself, if he says, yes, I will allow my party to support this measure. Is that how you view the political prospects here, is that Donald Trump has to do some form of direct engagement, maybe outline a plan of what he wants? Is that the only thing that we get, is that the only way that we get some sort of constructive bill or negotiation?

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Well, I don't think it's clear yet. I think, unfortunately, President Trump talked about putting forward a proposal. What we knew about the proposal that he seemed to be offering sounded not bad. And I think maybe that's why he was, he never formally offered it because he got blowback from particularly Speaker Johnson and House Republicans who didn't want to vote on something that actually provided health care under the Affordable Care Act.

[Charlie Sykes]

Right.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

So I hope the president's going to get involved. I think it's important as we talk about affordability and, you know, the president can't decide if he's on board with trying to address affordability for people or.

[Charlie Sykes]

Not on board with, no, no, that's a hoax. That's a hoax. Come on now.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

But as we talk about that, one of the huge costs that people are facing is for health care coverage and health insurance. And what we heard today in our hearing from people who were affected, one small business owner from Virginia who talked about that she and her husband, both of whom were small business, have started their own businesses, are not going to be able to afford the increases to cover their health insurance and they don't have any other option.

[Charlie Sykes]

Right.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

A young couple who have young children have some health issues. And we're seeing that repeated over and over again in state after state across.

[Charlie Sykes]

Well, do you think it's, do you think it's one of these situations where you have to go over the cliff? Unfortunately, people, I mean, I know people are getting already notices that their premiums are going to spike in the new year, but they haven't yet. Spiked Bulwark Takes is sponsored by OR Frames. I've got a bit of a holiday gift giving pattern. I tell myself this year it's going to be different and then I will panic at the last minute because I forgot to get the more thoughtful gift and I'll just buy a gift card. Well, this year I skipped the panic and I gave an Aura frame. They are an absolute hit among people at the Bulwark. And I am jealous of Sarah Longwell every time I go into her office because I see that frame right there. It looks so good. You can upload unlimited free photos and video. Just download the Aura app and connect to Wi Fi. You can preload photos before chips. Keep adding from anywhere, anytime. You can share photos and videos effortlessly straight from your phone all year long. It's perfect for sending grandparents their ideal gift, which is pictures of their grandkids. Every frame also comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag for a limited time save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get $35 off or as best selling Carver matte frames. It was named number one by Wirecutter. Use the code. Use the promo code Bulwark takes at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code bulwark takes. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out pretty fast. So order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at the checkout. Is it one of those situations where things really get out of hand? People start saying they stop, start dropping insurance, stop showing up for care, start, you know, filing, you know, I don't know what they would have to do in this case, but they basically can't afford their health insurance. And only then you compel action.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Well, I hope not. I hope that will prevail and that we can address this before people face those kinds of dramatic consequences.

[Charlie Sykes]

Yeah.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

You know, one of the things that I learned early on when I got involved in politics is that there are some fundamentals that are critical for people to feel like they have security with themselves and their families. One is a decent place to live a job. But the third is health care. Being able to know that when they or their families get sick that they can make sure they get the care that they need. And that's a basic that every American should be able to feel comfortable about.

[Charlie Sykes]

Yeah, I want to switch to foreign policy right now. The preponderance of attention is what exactly is happening with respects to Venezuela, our actions in the Caribbean, and in particular this double tap boke strike that happened on September 2nd in which the Pentagon ordered a second strike because there were survivors of the first. We know that a video of that second strike was shown to the Gang of Eight. I'm wondering if you are going to get the opportunity to see it, if you've requested the opportunity to see it, if you've heard about what's in it.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Well, we've requested briefings both in the Foreign Relations Committee and in the Armed Services Committee. So far those requests have not been granted. As far as I understand, I have not. So I have not seen what's in the film. But what's interesting about that video is the administration has been very quick to release videos of boat strikes.

Over the last few months. And it raises questions about why are they not willing to release this one. What's in it that they're so worried that the American people might see? And it's important for Congress to see this video, but the American people ought to see it. Too, so that they can determine whether this is the kind of stance that America should be taking and whether it's consistent with our values. All right.

[Charlie Sykes]

The, the other thing that's kind of percolating all over this is that South Khan Admiral Alvin Halsey was pushed out of his position under very weird circumstances. Frankly, no one was quite certain why he was, but it seemed very much related to the campaign that we're now undertaking in the Caribbean. Reports this week is that he has been talking to, or did talk to a couple of your colleagues. I presume you want to talk to him, too, and get him before your committee. But I'm just sort of curious you can give us a little insight into what efforts have been undertaken to reach this admiral to see if he has any insights into what is actually happening.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

I'm, I have not been part of those discussions, so I really can't speak to that.

[Charlie Sykes]

Okay.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

But the admiral has an, an honorable record. I'm sure that it's important for him to be able to retire with honor. And.

You know what? We, what we heard from his successor has indicated that he gave the order for that second boat strike. And the circumstances are still murky about what actually happened there.

[Charlie Sykes]

Yeah. And then the last thing I want to ask you about, and we're going to do something I haven't really done on a take before, which is this, is this happened today. Donald Trump, we're going to play some video for you. I don't know if you've seen this, but Donald Trump today it reported by Bloomberg. Then Donald Trump announced that we have apparently seized a oil refinery boat from Venezuela that was en route to Cuba. I want to play the video of Donald Trump announcing it and I want to just get your reaction on the other side of that video of that.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Fma, from the standpoint of news, as you probably know, we've just seized a tanker on the coast of Venezuela, large.

[Charlie Sykes]

Tanker, very large.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Largest one ever seized, actually. And other things are happening. So you'll be seeing that later and you'll be talking about that later with some other people.

[Charlie Sykes]

Sorry, I said oil refinery obviously meant oil tanker. What is going on here?

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Well, it's a further escalation of the actions by this administration in the Caribbean and in against Venezuela. And again, it puts at risk Americans, puts at risk our men and women in the military. He's taking action without congressional authorization and risking a further, further conflict in Venezuela.

[Charlie Sykes]

Can Trump do this without congressional authorization?

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Well, as long as people are not willing to prevent him from doing it. Unfortunately, the answer is yes. I'm hoping that our Republican colleagues will speak up with. With us to say this is not appropriate action. I know that there is an effort, legislative effort that Senator Kaine is. Has engaged in to try and call out this action if he further escalates.

But again.

Congress needs to act. We need to.

Make our voices heard that we should not let the executive and the President, the executive branch and the President get us into another war that the American people don't know about, haven't supported. And there's no transparency for what the President is doing.

[Charlie Sykes]

Yeah. No hearings, no rush, no rationalization, no legal justification. It's quite something. Senator Shaheen, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Thank you.

[Charlie Sykes]

Please come back anytime. Obviously, I have a soft spot for anyone from New Hampshire, so thank you. I appreciate it.

[Podcast Host]

Good.

[Senator Jeanne Shaheen]

Well, we. We consider you a Granite Stater who graduated from Dartmouth.

[Charlie Sykes]

I'll take it. I'll take it. Thank you so much. Senator.

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[Charlie Sykes]

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