Sen. Tom Cotton Defends the Indefensible

Summary

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Bulwark Takes

Episode: Sen. Tom Cotton Defends the Indefensible
Date: December 5, 2025
Host(s): Tim Miller & Jonathan V. Last (JVL)
Main Guests: Rep. Jim Himes, Sen. Tom Cotton, Sen. Roger Wicker

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Episode Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes is a rapid-fire analysis of the contentious Congressional briefing over the so-called “double tap” U.S. military strike in the Caribbean. The Bulwark team, led by Tim Miller and Jonathan V. Last (JVL), examines sharply conflicting reactions from Democratic Congressman Jim Himes and Republican Senator Tom Cotton, with a cameo from Senator Roger Wicker. The hosts scrutinize claims, parse political postures, and question the legal and moral framework behind the strike that resulted in the deaths of alleged drug smugglers at sea.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Double Tap Strike & Congressional Reaction

• Background: Congress was briefed on classified video footage of a U.S. military boat strike (the “double tap”) in the Caribbean, targeting alleged narco-traffickers.
• Central Controversy: Whether the strike was lawful, just, and how members of Congress are parsing what they saw.

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2. Congressman Jim Himes – Grave Concerns & Legal Ambiguity

[02:45–04:16]

• Himes describes the footage as one of “the most troubling things” in his public service, expressing moral and legal discomfort.
• Himes Quote:

  “What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service. You have two individuals in clear distress without any means of locomotion...killed by the United States...the specific example given of an impermissible action is attacking a shipwreck.” (03:14)

• Himes underscores: the men killed had “no means of locomotion” and “were shipwrecked,” but acknowledges the complexities and context offered by military leadership.
• He insists there was not an explicit “kill them all order,” subtly refuting press reports of such.

[Analysis (Tim & JVL): 04:35-06:14]

• JVL and Tim note the internal contradictions in Himes’s language—praising military leaders but describing the event as an atrocity.
• Suggest Himes is striving to be diplomatic, not wanting to “impugn...one admiral in the military who has served the country.” (Tim, 05:34)

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3. Senator Tom Cotton – Aggressive Defense & Moral Certitude

[07:13–09:46]

• Cotton’s Stance: Strongly defends the military’s decision, calling the strikes “righteous” and “needful,” painting the targets as grave threats (“narco terrorists trafficking drugs...to kill thousands of Arkansans and millions of Americans”).
• Cotton Quote:

  “These are narco terrorists who are trafficking drugs that are destined for the United States to kill thousands of Arkansans and millions of Americans. The first strike, the second strike, and the third and the fourth strike on September 2nd were entirely lawful and needful.” (07:13)

• He claims the video showed the survivors “trying to flip a boat loaded with drugs...back over so they could stay in the fight” (07:54).
• Dismisses the need for further inquiry, insists he “didn’t see anything disturbing about it” and would “absolutely” take the same shot again (09:42).
• Host Tim Miller skewers Cotton’s absolutism and machismo, noting:

  “Righteous, righteous, righteous. We must kill them. Kill them all.” (09:49)

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4. Parsing Contradictions and Raising Questions

[10:26–13:15]

• The hosts highlight the wildly divergent “eyewitness” accounts of the same footage (helpless survivors vs. active combatants).
• JVL lampoons Cotton’s justification:

  “Is it a little raft? Is it like a kitty raft?” (10:26)
  Raising logistical questions about the plausibility of the smugglers salvaging their cargo and remaining a threat.

• The hosts ridicule the hyperbolic rhetoric about drugs as “weapons of mass destruction,” questioning underlying assumptions.

[13:15–16:55]

• Point out the leap from naval strike to an act of undeclared war, with no congressional vote or authorization.
• The threat inflation is dissected:

  “The whole basis of this act of war...is that it’s so dangerous...from those drugs that are floating in the Caribbean that we had to bomb...” (Tim, 13:25)

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5. Logic of the Threat and Slippery Slope Arguments

[14:24–16:13]

• JVL wryly observes the bad “business model” of selling a product (cocaine) that purportedly kills “millions” of Americans (14:14).
• Tim mocks Cotton’s depiction of the threat to Arkansas citizens, satirically imagining scenarios of involuntary cocaine use, highlighting logical absurdities.

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6. The Wicker Moment – Silence Speaks Louder

[17:20–17:36]

• Senator Roger Wicker, when questioned, refuses to comment beyond acknowledging the briefing.
• Hosts interpret his “no comment” as notable restraint, possibly indicating unease with what he witnessed.

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7. Final Reflection – The Righteousness Narrative

[18:22–19:33]

• The team discusses the danger of an attitude that presumes American military actions are unquestionably “righteous.”

“As long as the bombs got a bald eagle and a US flag on it, don’t matter what happens. Because it’s righteous by definition.” (Tim, 19:14)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• Rep. Jim Himes:
  “What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service. You have two individuals in clear distress...were killed by the United States under the DoD manual...” (03:14)
• Sen. Tom Cotton:
  “These are narco terrorists who are trafficking drugs that are destined for the United States to kill thousands of Arkansans and millions of Americans. The first strike, the second strike, and the third and the fourth strike...were entirely lawful and needful.” (07:13)
  “I saw two survivors trying to flip a boat loaded with drugs...so they could stay in the fight.” (07:54)
  “I didn’t see anything disturbing about it. What’s disturbing to me is that millions of Americans have died from drugs being run to America by these cartels.” (08:37)
• Tim Miller:
  “Righteous, righteous, righteous. We must kill them. Kill them all.” (09:49)
  “How are all these Americans? Is there forcible cocaine use happening in Arkansas?” (16:13)
• Jonathan V. Last:
  “Is it a little raft? Is it like a kitty raft?” (10:26)
  “It’s a very bad business model for the cartels to sell a product which kills the people who will purchase their product.” (14:14)

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Memorable Moments & Tone

• Sharp, sardonic tone by Tim and JVL, mercilessly interrogating political spin and military justifications.
• Use of humor and incredulity to spotlight tottering logic, e.g., the “involuntary hairdresser cocaine attack” scenario (16:13).
• JVL’s dry asides draw attention to the inconsistencies and evasions among congressional statements.
• The team’s skepticism about government transparency and the wisdom of military escalation is palpable throughout.

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Key Timestamps

• 01:31 – Tim & JVL introduce the “double tap” briefing and set up the debate.
• 02:45–04:16 – Rep. Jim Himes’s statement.
• 07:13–09:46 – Sen. Tom Cotton’s presser: full-throated defense.
• 10:26–13:15 – Hosts dissect contradictions, exaggeration of threat.
• 14:24–16:13 – Satirical analysis of logical holes in the “millions at risk” narrative.
• 17:20–17:36 – Sen. Roger Wicker’s notable non-statement.
• 19:14–19:33 – Summary critique of the “righteousness” posture.

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Summary & Takeaway

This episode spotlights profoundly conflicting Congressional accounts of a controversial American military strike, raising troubling questions about the laws of armed conflict, the expansion of executive power, and the intoxicating narrative of American righteousness. Bulwark’s hosts marshal biting wit and forensic skepticism to peel back the rhetoric and demand clear-eyed accountability—a quintessential Bulwark Takes clinic in media and political analysis.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

It'S Tim Miller here with my buddy Jvl. Go sign up for his newsletter at the bulwark.com it's called the Triad. It's the best newsletter in the business. We we are here in Washington ourselves just in different offices and across town Congress has just been briefed about the so called double tap strike in the Caribbean where the Secretary of War Pete Hegseth took out the boat of alleged drug smugglers and then proceeded to not kill two of the drug smugglers and then just bombed them again in the water against against the rules of engagement.

During this briefing on the Hill they actually got to watch videos of it and so we have now can see some reactions from Congress before I go to Jim Himes. Any anything you want people to look out for. JVL Any top top thoughts?

[Jonathan V. Last]

Well I mean we do seem to have conflicting stories. We do which is hard because everybody saw the same video.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, well, we're not just people to.

[Jonathan V. Last]

Keep that in mind while they listen to the. The accounts of what people say they saw.

[Tim Miller]

First up is Congressman Jim Himes, friend of the Bulwark takes feed. And here's what he had to say.

[Congressman Jim Himes]

Let me just say this.

Admiral Bradley and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the right thing.

And Admiral Bradley defended the decisions taken. And Admiral Bradley has a storied career and he has my respect and he should have the respect of all of us. But what I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service. You have two individuals in clear distress without any means of locomotion with a destroyed vessel were killed by the United states under the DoD manual for abiding by the laws of armed conflict. The specific example given of an impermissible action is attacking a shipwreck.

Any American who sees the video that I saw will see the United States military attacking shipwrecked sailors. Bad guys. Bad guys. But attacking shipwrecked sailors. Now, there's a whole set of contextual items that the admiral explained. Yes, they were carrying drugs. They were not in the position to continue their mission in any way. We don't.

[Commercial Narrator 1]

We don't.

[Congressman Jim Himes]

People will someday see this video and they will see that that video shows, if you don't have the broader context, an attack on shipwrecked sailors.

The last thing I'm going to say. The last thing I'm going to say is that the admiral confirmed that there had not been a kill them all order and that there was not an order to grant no quarter.

[Tim Miller]

Again, Congressman Jim Hines, Democrat from Connecticut. One of the most distressing things he's ever seen.

Jonathan.

[Jonathan V. Last]

So I'm. I'm a little confused. He said that.

The admiral did exactly the right thing.

That what he did should be respected, and that it was one of the most disturbing things he's ever seen and that these were shipwrecked sailors who had no means of locomotion in open water. I'm having trouble reconciling this. Also saying that we know that these were bad guys and that they had lots of drugs. Again, very eager to see the evidence of this. I assume there must be.

But hard to parse. Am I misreading this? I fully understand this.

[Tim Miller]

To me. Well, I'll parse it. I think this, to me, seems like a congressman that does not want to impugn.

One admiral in the military who has served the country.

In particular. For whatever reason, maybe he has reasons, maybe his information about what Secretary Hegseth did, or he's just trying to be respectful, I don't know. But I mean, that's what that was, right? And he's saying, look, anybody that sees this video will see us just eat two shipwreck sailors out of the water who had no ability to do anything to the country. And like that's what he said. And so assuming that that part of the press conference is accurate, we can all see it, then the debate comes over like the implications of that and you know, who, who is responsible for that?

[Jonathan V. Last]

And he then says there was no kill order. Right. So he then disputes the Washington Post reporting that there had been an order leave no survivors ahead of time. Now, how, how he would know there was none is again, I mean, he, he may have testimony from the admiral that there was none, but that is different than saying there wasn't a thing Again, if we're just going to parse it all.

[Tim Miller]

Very sure, of course. Yeah. We have a counter narrative from Senator Tom Cotton, Republican senator for Arkansas, really trying quite hard in this upcoming video to butch himself up. I want to warn everybody it's long because what he's saying doesn't make a lot of sense and he's taking some questions from reporters. And so there's a back and forth. So stick around for it. If you can only take so much of his little fake fake lilt, you know, you just hit the fast forward button and we'll get. We'll give you the details on the other side. Let's watch. Senator Cotton.

[Jonathan V. Last]

Yeah.

[Senator Tom Cotton]

I want to thank Admiral Bradley and General Kane for coming to brief about the strikes on September 2, which were righteous strikes. These are narco terrorists who are trafficking drugs that are destined for the United States to kill thousands of Arkansans and millions of Americans. The first strike, the second strike, and the third and the fourth strike on September 2nd were entirely lawful and needful and they were exactly what we'd expect our military commanders to do.

[Tim Miller]

What exactly did you see in terms of the video of the second strike? Were there survivors?

[Senator Tom Cotton]

I saw two survivors trying to flip a boat loaded with drugs bound for the United States back over so they could stay in the fight. And potentially, given all the context, we heard of other narco terrorist boats in the area coming to their aid to recover their cargo and recover those narco terrorists. And just like you would blow up a boat off of the Somali coast or the Yemeni coast and you'd come back and strike it again. If it still had terrorists and it still had explosives or missiles, Admiral Bradley and Secretary Heb said, did exactly what we would expect them to do. It's one of the most disturbing things he's seen in his career. Did that match who did, Congressman?

No, I didn't see anything disturbing about it. What's disturbing to me is that millions of Americans have died from drugs being run to America by these cartels. What's gratifying to me is that the President has made the decision finally, after decades of letting it happen, that we're going to take the battle to them and we're going to continue to strike these boats until cartels learn their lesson that their drugs are no longer coming to America.

[Tim Miller]

After what you heard today, do you think it's appropriate for Senator Networkers to be launched into its investigation into the second storm?

[Senator Tom Cotton]

Well, I mean, I think what we saw today and what Senator Wicker and Senator Reid on the Armed Services Committee saw today is a very thorough inquiry into exactly what happened. I can't say what's going to happen on the committee in the future, but I think what happened today with General Kane and Admiral Bradley coming up and showing us the videos, kind of talking through everything that led up to September 2, is very. A very thorough review of what's happening.

[Tim Miller]

No more information is needed.

[Senator Tom Cotton]

I don't personally need any more information.

[Tim Miller]

You said that the strikes were righteous, that there were four of them. Would you have taken the same shot if you're in that position?

[Senator Tom Cotton]

If I was Admiral Bradley and I'd been delegated that story, absolutely. And I'd do it again.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

Righteous, righteous, righteous. We must kill them. Kill them all. Okay, baby, look, you know, you could parse the Heim statement. There's. He's. There's nothing to parse there. I mean, one of them's lying. I mean, like Cotton's story. Now, they saw the same video. Heim said that anybody that sees the video would see clearly that it was two sailors that had no locomotion. Right. You know, and a burning boat. Cotton is saying they're trying to. These are active terrorists. Try to flip the boat back over.

[Jonathan V. Last]

Is it a little raft? Is it like a kitty raft?

[Tim Miller]

That.

[Jonathan V. Last]

Or is it a fast. Again, these are things that. It would be nice. What is the displacement on this boat so we can understand? Would it be possible for two people to flip it? They're trying to salvage the cargo. Okay, how does that work? Where is the cargo? Is the cargo loose? Is it at the bottom of the ocean? Is it floating? In packets. Did the drugs have little life vests on it in case such a thing.

[Tim Miller]

Happens in a waterproof pack, you know, packaging.

[Jonathan V. Last]

I have a third question. I don't know if you want to. I'm sorry, I'm monopolizing things. But we did get testimony from another person just the other day where the Secretary of Defense. Not war. War is just how he identifies. That's his preferred pronoun. Yeah, but the Secretary of Defense said that he did not give the order for a double tap because after the first strike, there was nothing to see because the boat was destroyed and it was on fire. And so he got up and he left the room because the damn thing was on fire and it was destroyed. There was nothing other important things to do. So, like, again.

Was it on fire and destroyed? These things can't be the same.

[Tim Miller]

This is a Titanic situation. You know, Leo's in the water, they're paddling around. Maybe there was a life. One of the lifeboats wasn't on. The cocaine just kind of landed fortuitously, like right next to the shipwrecked sailors. So they're sort of hugging the keys of cocaine and using them as a raft. Possibly, is how you could make the two stories work together again.

[Jonathan V. Last]

These people are all making radically different representations on what is the exact same video, and they can't all be true.

[Tim Miller]

As usual, every time we bring this up, I do want to take the lens back, because one of the other things you heard Mr. Cotton saying there.

He'S masculine, loves killing people.

He talks about the threat to the country from the two guys that we had to kill out of the sea. Right.

[Jonathan V. Last]

Millions of people.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. He cares.

[Jonathan V. Last]

He starts with thousands and then goes quickly to the millions of people who were about to die from these drugs.

[Tim Miller]

He compares this to the terrorists and how we would act outside of Yemen and Somalia. And it's interesting when he's telling the stories because he's like, okay, let's say this has happened and we're off the coast of Yemen. And these terrorists, they still have weapons, they still have tools they'd used to attack us with. This is no different than that, because.

Venezuelans in the Caribbean. And he doesn't say they have dangerous weapons or easy to come attack us with. He says that they've got drugs.

[Jonathan V. Last]

The drugs are the weapons.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. So the whole.

[Commercial Narrator 1]

This whole.

[Tim Miller]

The whole basis of this act of war, which we haven't declared, which Congress hasn't voted on, where there's no authorization of military force, is that it's so dangerous the threat is so dangerous from those drugs that are floating in the Caribbean that we had to bomb. We had to. Six, seven. These guys from the sky had no choice. There was no other choice because the threat is so great. And that's crazy. I didn't take one piece of self accountability. It's important as a pundit. I had a comment bring this up when we were convincing on the same question on tnl and we're like, how does this even work? That it could be millions of Americans that are in threat of these drugs. They'd have to do the drugs to die. It's not like cocaine is anthrax. If you're around it in the air, could die. There's no secondhand smoke for.

[Jonathan V. Last]

It's a very bad business model for the cartels to sell a product which kills the people who will purchase their product. I don't understand how they're doing so well with their narco terrorism.

[Tim Miller]

And I was speculating and I was like, well, let's even say that all the people that were doing this were dying. Like, what percentage of Americans do cocaine? I was like, 15%. One of the commenters, like, does Tim really think 15% of Americans are cocaine users? I was like, fair critique. I was just spitballing, okay? I was on the high end. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I was like, you know, let's just say, I mean, it's. Who is. How are millions dying? Like, the whole thing is preposterous. That is what makes you a little bit upset about Himes, who at least is speaking clearly about. About the atrocity that happened. It feels like the. Even the Democrats that are speaking there are, like, giving too much, you know, credit to the. To like, the rationale for us doing this at all. What is the threat?

[Jonathan V. Last]

Well, I mean, I'll take it a step further, if true that each of these boats is responsible for the death of 25,000Americans, meaning that we are only like 12,000 boats away from every man, woman and child in America being dead. Like America could become extinct if 12,000 of these boats reach our shore. Then why haven't we invaded Venezuela to put a stop to these weapons from these narco terrorists who are trying to kill America? Why are we just. Why are we just dropping bombs in the middle of the ocean instead of going after them on the land where the President said it was much easier?

[Tim Miller]

And we're going to start doing those strikes on land too. You know, the land is much easier. It's much easier.

[Jonathan V. Last]

It's okay. So we should be invading Venezuela tonight.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Senator Scarfy, Senator Scarfi said he was for that. It's like, yeah, sure, we could go to the cartel corps.

How are all these Americans? Is there forcible cocaine use happening in Arkansas? If he's worried about Arkansas citizens, does he think that the Trenda Aragua, they come into the country, they've got their hairdresser implanted in America. You sit down, you go to the barber shop, and they're just like, you know, you think they're going to cut your hair. Then he sticks a little fentanyl cocaine from Venezuela in your nose and you drop dead. Like, the whole thing, the premise of this is just totally preposterous. I do feel crazy, like watching these serious senators, like they're on tv. A serious senator and a congressman, like, oh, I'm going to do a press conference about whether this was right, or like, the whole thing is crazy that we're doing this.

[Senator Tom Cotton]

Yes.

[Jonathan V. Last]

Do they not believe in personal responsibility?

[Tim Miller]

Exactly.

[Jonathan V. Last]

Tim, Couldn't people just say no to cocaine? In fact, shouldn't people deal with the consequences of their actions? That is, I believe, the conservative way.

[Tim Miller]

No. Something to think about. One final clip. Different. Senator Roger Wicker, Republican from Mississippi.

He off. Well, let's just. Let's just watch together what he had to say coming out of the meeting.

[Jonathan V. Last]

Are you concerned, though, what you saw in the video?

[Congressman Jim Himes]

I'm going to withhold comment. Beyond the fact that we were brief.

[Tim Miller]

About hearing, did you see evidence of a war crime in that video?

[Congressman Jim Himes]

I'm going to withhold comment, but thank you so much.

[Jonathan V. Last]

It's nice that he doesn't reach over and start tapping the door close, door close, door close button because he wants to. He's like, why is this taking so long?

[Tim Miller]

I. I guess if I was Pete Hegseth, I'd be a little concerned about that video. Senators watched this video. He's not received the talking points yet. He's not as shameless as Tom Cotton, who's just going to go outside and put on his big boy britches and scarf and say whatever war crimes he saw was great because he's the national security man. Like, Wicker saw the video, looked at it, saw the thing that Himes said it was one of the most disturbing things that he's seen. And he came out of there before he could hear his message points from the White House. And his response was.

No comment. Maybe a war cry, maybe tv.

[Jonathan V. Last]

I mean, this is actually to go back to Cotton. So Cotton did say the second strike was righteous. And so was the third and the fourth. And again, I'm sorry to be parsing everything. Were there a third and a fourth strike? Like this is a real question, right? Or was he just rhetorically trying to say no matter how many strikes we. We do, they're all righteous, Right? Like there is no such thing as an unrighteous. Which again, it just seems like it's an important thing to know. Because if Cotton's position is that there is no such thing as a war crime and we can, we can do, we can do what we need to do to stop these narco terrorists, okay, that's a position. But it is strange that if that's so self obviously correct, why is the other senator, the distinguished gentleman from Mississippi, being like, yeah, don't ask me.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know, maybe a worker. I'm not sure. No comment. Yeah, I think Cotton's used as long as the bombs got a bald eagle and a US flag on it. Don't matter. Don't matter what happens. Because it's righteous by definition. It has God's stamp on it.

Great. That's an ethos. Jbl, it's been good to see you in person, buddy. Everybody else subscribe to the feed. We're gonna have a bunch coming at you tomorrow. I finally figured out who the podcast was gonna be. I think you'll like them. And so we'll see you all then.

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[Tim Miller]

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