Bulwark Takes – "Sen. Warner on the Boat Strike Crisis"
Date: December 7, 2025
Host: Bill Kristol
Guest: Senator Mark Warner (D-VA, Vice Chair of Senate Intelligence Committee)
Overview
This episode features Bill Kristol in conversation with Senator Mark Warner, focusing on the September 2nd boat strike and the subsequent crisis it sparked. Their discussion centers on the decision-making, legal justifications, congressional oversight, and broader implications for U.S. military and intelligence operations. Senator Warner recounts high-level briefings, scrutinizes the administration's shifting narratives, and raises alarms about the politicization of national security.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Sen. Warner’s Briefing and Initial Impressions
- Warner met with General Kane and Admiral Bradley in a confidential setting to discuss the strike.
"I was the last interview and I was the only member in that meeting... we had a very candid conversation." – Warner [02:23]
- Felt the session was more open without others present.
2. Chain of Decision and Legal Process
- The underlying policy enabling the strike was decided in late July, but the formal legal opinion wasn't finished until after the strike.
"The legal opinion was not even fully drafted until September 5th, three days after the September 2nd strike." – Warner [03:07]
- The execution order and real-time communication details remain murky.
- Raises doubt about whether Adm. Bradley and others had updated legal clarity during the strike.
3. Questions About the Operation Itself
- Senator Warner stresses the need for all facts before drawing harsh conclusions, especially regarding potential war crimes.
"Anyone that jumps to conclusion on that before you have all the information is doing a disservice." – Warner [04:13]
- Points out a legal stretch in equating drug running with terrorism or imminent threats.
"Equating basically any drunk person with the equivalent of an ISIS and Al Qaeda... is a pretty legal bit of a stretch." – Warner [04:33]
- Casts doubt on the narrative that individuals remaining on the boat post-strike were a continued threat:
"...these individuals who were holding on to this boat were somehow still in the fight really stretches anybody's imagination." – Warner [04:38]
4. Video Release and Transparency
- Warner calls for full public release of the strike videos, noting only limited snippets have been shown.
"For them to now say, we're going to show you the first strike, but somehow the balance of the next hour with the subsequent strikes is somehow classified. Yeah, that doesn't pass any smell test." – Warner [05:57]
- Dismisses any strong national security justification for withholding the rest of the footage.
"I see nothing here that would display any kind of sources and methods... when they put these videos out in the first place." – Warner [07:29]
5. Chain of Command and the Role of Secretary Hegseth
- Adm. Bradley took over after the initial strike; Secretary of Defense Hegseth left the operation room early.
- Warner suggests that policy and direction from the top created a scenario with little room for alternative approaches.
"Are all these strikes simply to kill not just the first, but all the subsequent ones as well? ...Do we really want to have the policy of America against drug runners that kill, kill, kill is the first, second and third priority?" – Warner [12:43]
6. Congressional Oversight and Approval
- The administration neither sought congressional authorization explicitly nor kept Congress fully informed, in contrast with previous counterterror operations.
"Never vetted with Congress and never authorized by Congress, unlike previous military actions against terrorists." – Kristol [05:40]
- The War Powers notification was sent two days post-strike, but no follow-up for sustained action or funding.
"He continues to make claims about closing the airspace or he might strike the land, he's asked Congress for nothing." – Warner [22:45]
7. Legal and Moral Implications for the Military
- Warner voices deep concern over the American military being placed in positions with ambiguous legality, potentially exposing service members to accusations of war crimes.
"People will view this and could potentially view this as against international law. Oh boy. We're putting our military in the potential for legal jeopardy that we just... It is disrespectful." – Warner [18:04]
- Stresses the risk to morale and the need for lawful, clearly articulated policy.
8. Broader Policy Context, Hypocrisy, and Strategic Questions
- Questions the focus on Caribbean cocaine when most flows are via the Eastern Pacific; also, administration pardoned a key foreign drug trafficker while escalating lethal operations against boat smugglers.
"The hypocrisy of going after these guys. At the same time, the President pardons a convicted drug dealer who is the former Honduran president..." – Warner [21:19]
- Asserts the buildup toward Venezuela has no transparent rationale or congressional debate.
9. Degrading U.S. Intelligence and National Security Institutions
- Warner recounts the politicization and mass firings in the intelligence community, including the ODNI, NSA, DIA, and the FBI’s counterterrorism units.
"We could end up seeing people consciously or unconsciously start to shade the product to try to meet the approval of a political agenda. And that makes America less safe." – Warner [28:07]
- Allies have signaled they may no longer trust the U.S. as a partner in intelligence sharing.
"Our best allies like the British, the Dutch, are publicly stating they're not sure they can share intelligence with us anymore." – Warner [29:01]
10. Transparency, Accountability, and Alarm about the Future
-
Warner and Kristol both mourn the absence of congressional action or even adequate debate.
"The degree, I think of lack of people say transparency, that's not even the beginning. Accountability and just even visibility into what's happening. I find it, it's pretty astounding." – Kristol [32:26]
-
Warner highlights that the new National Security Strategy pivots away from China and Russia toward the Western Hemisphere and culture wars, leaving the U.S. ill-prepared for critical technological rivalries:
"This document focused almost exclusively on the Western Hemisphere... spends more time about, you know, culture wars in Europe than how Europe can be our partner." – Warner [32:49]
-
Warner closes with a direct appeal to both parties for responsible, legal policies that protect both national interests and the men and women in uniform.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the Legal Opinion Delay:
"The policy was decided in late July. The legal opinion was not even fully drafted until September 5th, three days after the September 2nd strike."
—Senator Mark Warner [03:07] -
On War Crimes Accusations:
"That is such a serious accusation that I think anyone that jumps to conclusion on that before you have all the information is doing a disservice."
—Senator Mark Warner [04:13] -
On Video Transparency:
"For them to now say, we're going to show you the first strike, but somehow the balance of the next hour with the subsequent strikes is somehow classified. Yeah, that doesn't pass any smell test."
—Senator Mark Warner [05:57] -
On U.S. Military’s Position:
"My belief is that the admiral and the troops were put in, frankly, a fairly untenable position."
—Senator Mark Warner [04:18] -
On the Hypocrisy:
"The hypocrisy of going after these guys. At the same time, the President pardons a convicted drug dealer who is the former Honduran president..."
—Senator Mark Warner [21:19] -
On the Intelligence Community:
"We could end up seeing people consciously or unconsciously start to shade the product to try to meet the approval of a political agenda. And that makes America less safe."
—Senator Mark Warner [28:07] -
Bill Kristol on Transparency:
"The degree, I think of lack of people say transparency, that's not even the beginning. Accountability and just even visibility into what's happening. I find it, it's pretty astounding."
—Bill Kristol [32:26]
Key Timestamps
| Time | Segment / Topic | |----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:30 | Introduction: Bill Kristol welcomes Sen. Warner | | 02:23 | Warner’s private debrief with generals/admiral after the September 2 incident | | 03:07 | Policy timeline confusion and late legal justification | | 04:38 | Evaluation of the strike video and the war crimes question | | 05:57 | Debate over releasing the full strike video | | 07:29 | National security concerns and video transparency | | 09:30 | Execution orders: Who decided, and when? | | 12:43 | The core question: Was "kill" the default mission? | | 16:09 | Missed opportunities for intelligence/capture; the alleged second boat | | 18:04 | Potential for international law and war crimes risks to U.S. service members | | 21:19 | Critique of administration's focus and alleged policy hypocrisy | | 24:33 | Congressional oversight and lack of transparency | | 26:16 | Warner on the politicization and gutting of the U.S. intelligence community | | 29:01 | Allies questioning intelligence sharing | | 32:26 | Kristol & Warner: The breakdown of democratic oversight and accountability | | 33:58 | National Security Strategy: China and Russia deprioritized | | 34:34 | Warner’s closing concerns—moral, legal, and operational | | 35:50 | Conclusion |
Tone and Style
The conversation is direct and searching, with Warner measured but frank about his concerns. Kristol echoes the urgency and the sense that this represents a significant departure from established norms in both congressional oversight and military/legal accountability. The tone is sobering, occasionally incredulous, but ultimately focused on the responsibilities of policy makers and the risks to American principles and security.
Summary for New Listeners
This episode is an essential listen for anyone concerned about the rule of law in U.S. military operations, congressional checks on executive power, the politicization of intelligence, and the larger strategic direction of U.S. foreign policy. It offers insight into both the technical and deeply human costs of a crisis still unfolding, with Senator Warner providing a rare, candid look inside the ongoing debate.