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- [00:00]
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- [01:11]
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- [02:03]
Sam Stein
Hey guys, me Sam Stein, Managing editor at the Bulwark and I'm joined by Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, who was gracious enough to come on and talk about. I don't even know how to describe what's actually happening in the Eastern District of Virginia with the US Attorney there, but the latest as of 10 minutes ago, I should say we're recording this at like 2:45. On Monday, September 22nd, President Trump intends to appoint his personal former defense attorney Lindsey Halligan to the role of U.S. attorney of Eastern District of Virginia. Over the weekend, he fired the U.S. attorney there, Eric Seibert. And the reason he did so explicitly, as I understand it well, explicitly, period, was that cyber was not going after Letitia James, the who had brought charges against Donald Trump, obviously in Trump's time out of office. Senator, what is happening in your state?
- [02:59]
Senator Mark Warner
I mean it's, it's, it's. Well, let me take two minutes and just, I know everybody follows the ball, workers all follows all the process stuff, but the way we do U.S. attorneys, and we did this under Biden, under Trump, under Obama. Tim Kaine and I, we have a bipartisan group and they take anybody that wants to apply to a U.S. attorney, they review them and then we interview three to five. And we know when there's a Republican president, you know, we got to pick people with good Republican credentials. We still want them to follow the law, but want them sure. You know, we recognize president's got a right to pick who he wants. He doesn't have to pick the people we suggest. So starting with the Western District of Virginia, the other, we'll come to Eastern District in a second Western District. We picked two great names. Trump White House said, these are great. Matter of fact, one was the Republican speaker of our state House.
- [03:55]
Sam Stein
Right.
- [03:56]
Senator Mark Warner
He was the guy who was picked. He was in for about a couple months. All of a sudden we get this call, he's getting forced out supposedly because he wouldn't do what the Justice Department asked on moving things around. So I think following law, Eastern District of Virginia and Eastern District of Virginia, again for non legal beagle types, it's the frickin number one or number two, most important U.S. attorney in the country. This is the office that does all the counterterrorists, does all the counter espionage, a lot of the cybersecurity. So again we go through this process, we come up with two folks to recommend Trump. White House said, great, great, great. Appoint Eric Seaver, he's the acting going in. And then, you know, at least the first time I heard was last Thursday where they're saying, oh my gosh, they're going to push him out as well because he's not bringing a case against one of Trump's political enemies. And it's like, holy crap. I mean, the one thing I did feel, Tim and I, Tim Kaine and I both talked about it, you know, the one thing we asked both of all of the candidates is, you know, you're going to work for President Trump, that's fine. But at the end of the day, you got to follow the law. And it appears to me that at least on character basis, we made pretty darn good choices.
- [05:20]
Sam Stein
Yeah, I mean, it's not. What's interesting about this, I suppose, is that there's not even any subtlety to it. They're pretty explicit that Sabert is getting axed because. Or was axed, I should say, because he was not bringing charges against Letitia James over mortgage fraud. Allegations of. I'm curious, are you. Have you. Were you given any heads up that this was coming? Did the Trump administration ever say, hey, we're thinking of doing this, or was this all discovered vis a vis?
- [05:51]
Senator Mark Warner
First I heard with Thursday. I need to check with my staff to see if they heard any rumblings. And, you know, went from Thursday, and it felt like there were a lot of people that were trying to protect, you know, Eric in the Justice Department. And, and so, you know, Thursday we said, holy crap, what's going. And then we said, well, wait, well, maybe he may be able to be saved. But to your point, you know, I'm old enough to remember Richard Nixon. At least Nixon tried to do this stuff late at night and hide it. The fact that Trump is now blasting his US Attorney for not bringing a case and then blasting his attorney general.
- [06:32]
Sam Stein
Yes, that was the weird part. It was the post where he said, pam, we gotta get this moving. Actually, the real historical parallel here for me at least, is The Bush era 2006 US Attorney saga I was talking about with a colleague here, where for the Bush administration, if people forget fired a number of U.S. attorneys, it's within their right to do. I mean, no one. I don't think you're disputing the president, but it was because it seemed like it was being done by political or for political means that it became a scandal for the Bush administration. Trump's not even riding the ball on that.
- [07:05]
Senator Mark Warner
Didn't the Attorney general then end up having to resign?
- [07:08]
Sam Stein
That is correct, yes. And. But Trump's not even bothering to hide the ball in this case. He's basically saying, yes, it is because of political means.
- [07:15]
Senator Mark Warner
Yeah. And, Sam, that's the part where, you know, I've had people say, well, what do your Republican friends say? I'm hoping that Grassley will stay with the blue slips and keep the process. But frankly, on this one, if lawyers across the country, if the judiciary across the country, if people who believe in rule of law.
- [07:34]
Sam Stein
Right.
- [07:35]
Senator Mark Warner
Aren't saying, hold it, this is not just one more. Oh, there he goes again. But this is plain old you go after my political opponents and to heck whether there's any evidence. Bring a case. Regardless. If that becomes the new norm, we're more screwed than we think we are.
- [07:52]
Sam Stein
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- [09:50]
Senator Mark Warner
You know, so far, not much. You know, I guess we could do this all happened on a Friday afternoon. The normal.
- [09:59]
Sam Stein
Right, right.
- [09:59]
Senator Mark Warner
Dump news time. It's Monday. Now. Monday afternoon, if everybody rolls over and just says, oh, there he goes again, then you know when evidence is brought and if it's not against a political enemy. It could be against a broadcaster or a podcaster or a politician. And we don't say, well, until they come. For me, it's just okay, right. And the thing that has blown my mind the most, mostly around national security, because the ironic irony of this was I was doing a bunch of stuff Thursday and Friday pointing out the politicization of the intelligence community that also want to scare the heck out of us. But there have been so many times in these last eight months where I thought, okay, this will be the thing where my Republican friends, who I know love our country every bit as much, they're going to finally say, no mas, this is enough. And we blow through these events and then they start aggregating and like, and then I think people feel. I don't know what they feel unless.
- [11:06]
Sam Stein
They feel, oh, because it becomes the new norm. Right? I mean, you start to feel like, okay, that's just the baseline. I. I'm a little confused about one other element. Then I actually do want to talk about some national security stuff with you. There was reports over the weekend that Pam Bondi was going to nominate or appoint, I should say, Mary Maggie Cleary for this role, but it turns out to not be the case. And it is, in fact, Stacey Halligan, and I'm sorry, Lindsey Halligan, I should say, do you have any insight into what's going on here?
- [11:38]
Senator Mark Warner
And again, I don't want to. Ms. Clary, we had interviewed at one point, I think she may be at least temporary. I don't know for a fact, but the fact that they're nominating the other young attorney, and I'm not going to speak about her because I don't know her yet, I want to see her record. My understanding is, at least from what's been press report, is that she did insurance law, didn't do prosecution. But I got to tell you this, that Eastern District of Virginia, maybe with the exception only in the Southern District of New York, the number one or number two most important U.S. attorney. This is not a place for on the job training. This is a place where we got to have a prosecutor that knows I have to go after terrorists, knows how to go after spies, understands technology, because this does a lot of the cyber docket. And again, if the president's going to take a look at it, but it would also seem to me that the president is going to kind of blow off then what has been the tradition for decades and decades that senators from the state at least get to recommend names. And then the President can choose them or not.
- [12:45]
Sam Stein
Right. Well, she. So Halligan will, if she does take the job, will serve in an interim basis. At some point that runs out. I think it's like 100 training days or so. Do you expect at that point that the President will in fact have to go back to the Senate and that because Chuck Grassley has stood by the blue slips process, that you and Senator Kaine will in fact have some say, or do you just imagine that.
- [13:07]
Senator Mark Warner
I don't know. I mean, I hope so.
- [13:09]
Sam Stein
Right.
- [13:10]
Senator Mark Warner
I'm not sure I should actually tell the President that, you know, because we work well. So. You know what, hear me out on this. I don't know.
- [13:20]
Sam Stein
Well, that's what did in Eric Cyber. Right.
- [13:22]
Senator Mark Warner
And judges that we nominated in his first term.
- [13:26]
Sam Stein
Right.
- [13:26]
Senator Mark Warner
And if he says, oh, my God, Warner and Kane, they're sleeves balls. And they said awful people. You know, I don't know whether. Does he know that we actually there's our judges that were Trump appointees that we recommended that he thought were great.
- [13:40]
Sam Stein
Just to get the viewer to understand it's specifically because, I mean, he referenced the fact that you and Tim Kaine recommended or appreciated Cyber as a reason to fire the guy. He said, well, you know, if they have the backing of Warner and Kane, ergo, they must be bad, he must be a bad guy. And so, yes, you have this perverse incentive to not throw your support behind people you like. Let's talk quickly about some other issues, the national security stuff. There's some preliminary reports about this TikTok sale that has come to fruition. We're going to get an actual announcement, apparently later in this week, some confusing details to me about whether or not the Chinese government will still have the ability to sort of decide the algorithm. What's your understanding of the contras of this deal? Have you been, as someone who's high up in the Intelligence Committee, have you been briefed about any of this?
- [14:30]
Senator Mark Warner
No, I have not been briefed at all. You know, and again, irony of ironies, it was Donald Trump and then Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin back in like 2019 that first convince. Yeah, Mnuchin and I were friends and it was Mark, this is really bad news. And I looked into it and then 80% of the Congress said, yeah, this could be a real propaganda tool for the Communist Party. And Trump led the charge. And then I'm going to reserve judgment till I look at the deal. But. But at the end of the day, the challenge can be, can we make sure that the algorithm, which is so good at figuring out what we like before we know what we like, whether that has some American control over it. That's really critical.
- [15:17]
Sam Stein
Well, but I mean, the flip side of this is that there's real concern among people who are very concerned already about media consolidation that the people who would essentially get granted control of the algorithm in light of this deal would be Trump friendly maga, billionaires, Oracle, and then Trump briefly mentioned the Murdochs among other people who potentially have this. I mean, media consolidation now is becoming paramount issue for Democratic voters, too.
- [15:43]
Senator Mark Warner
I would have again thought having an FCC commissioner threaten public broadcasting licenses and again, a lot of things I don't agree with Ted Cruz on, but I give Ted Cruz credit for at least speaking up on that.
- [15:56]
Sam Stein
Yeah, two more questions for you. Bagram Air Force Base. Donald Trump has now said he, I think, wants to reacquire it. There's reports about talks with the Taliban. Obviously going back in would require an incredible footprint for American personnel, I imagine, if you want to at least protect the base. I ask again, have you have any insight into what's going on here?
- [16:19]
Senator Mark Warner
No. I remember Donald Trump was going to end the war in Ukraine and Russia. If anything, it's gotten worse because Russians are flying through Estonia, sending drones into Poland. It's going to end the war in Gaza. It's obviously worse. And Bibi Netanyahu's government thumbing his nose at Trump in terms of bombing our ally Qatar. And now this idea that he's going to put American forces back in Afghanistan. You know, for everybody who supported President Trump, is this really the kind of national security war ending guy you thought you were hiring?
- [16:56]
Sam Stein
All right, last question for you. We're facing a shutdown in a matter of like a week and a half. Virginia, as you obviously know, tons of jobs with the federal government. Everyone's sort of looking at you to get a temperature or a read on the temperature of the Senate. Democrats, where do you stand on the shutdown right now?
- [17:17]
Senator Mark Warner
Listen, Virginia's already gotten doge. We've lost hundreds of thousands of positions. But I what I hear is people also are terrified about losing health care. And I don't care whether you buy your health care through the Obamacare marketplace or get it elsewhere. We take away those premiums and everybody's rates are going to go up. And the idea will. We can talk about that later. Baloney. The rates are going out right now in October 1st in Virginia. So all we're saying is Trump, sit down with the Democrats, see if we can cut a deal. You know you're supposed to be the world's greatest deal maker. Let's not do further damage to health care and let's not do further damage to, to our government. This is, I think there was a deal to be done, but it's, you got to have two at the table. And if Donald Trump is the ultimate dealmaker, why shouldn't be afraid to sit down with a couple of Democrats.
- [18:12]
Sam Stein
We'll see if he takes you up on that offer. Look, I was going to ask you to make a tuna melt on this, but your staff forbid you.
- [18:18]
Senator Mark Warner
That's way too classified. You know, the secret is heavy on the mail.
- [18:28]
Sam Stein
I think that's what's the TikTok algorithm is going to be rejiggered to make sure that it's only videos of your tuna melt making prowess from here on out. Okay, Senator Warner.
- [18:38]
Senator Mark Warner
Happy?
- [18:38]
Sam Stein
Too much.
- [18:39]
Senator Mark Warner
Take care.
- [18:39]
Sam Stein
Take care.
- [19:03]
Shopify Advertiser
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof Allbirds or Skims, sure you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making, selling and for the shoppers, buying. Simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret with shop pay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web and in your store, in their feed and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify, upgrade your business and get the same checkout skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com audioboom all lowercase go to shopify.com audioboom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com audioboom.