Sen. Wyden: Banks Knew About Jeffrey Epstein and Looked Away

Summary

Bulwark Takes — Sen. Wyden: Banks Knew About Jeffrey Epstein and Looked Away

Date: August 6, 2026
Host: Katherine Rampel
Guest: Senator Ron Wyden

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Episode Overview

This episode of Bulwark Takes features Katherine Rampel’s in-depth conversation with Senator Ron Wyden, focusing on his recent report into how major Wall Street banks handled the finances of Jeffrey Epstein. Wyden discusses the report's findings, including the failure of high-level banking executives to report suspicious activity linked to Epstein, the lack of adequate federal response, and the proposed legislative paths forward for accountability. The episode also shifts to trade and economic policy, notably the controversy surrounding expanded presidential tariff authority through the Lindsey Graham Russia sanctions bill.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Banks’ Failures and Complicity in Epstein’s Crimes

[01:16–04:29]

• Main finding: Epstein could not have continued his crimes for so long without banks “looking the other way” and failing to follow anti-money laundering laws.
  • Quote: “Epstein would not have gotten away with all this sex trafficking for so incredibly long if banks had done their job and followed the law.” (Wyden, 01:16)
• The misconduct was not isolated to low-level staff, but involved top executives (e.g., Mary Erdos at JP Morgan).
  • Quote: “They were top people. They need to be held accountable... for example, JP Morgan, they are still there and getting bonuses.” (Wyden, 02:04)
• Recent evidence: Deutsche Bank failed to report $250 million in suspicious transactions related to Epstein, and JP Morgan delayed reporting over $1 billion in suspicious transfers.
  • Quote: “That is brand new. That is this week. And it's clear that these big banks just didn't do their job.” (Wyden, 02:39)

2. Evidence of Knowledge and Motive

[04:29–05:44]

• Explicit internal communications: Some bankers discussed Epstein’s preferences for “young girls” in emails, yet did not report suspicious transactions.
• Retrospective reporting (“after the harm was done”) was common; proactive action was rare.
  • Quote: “Most of what they reported... is retroactive. So the damage was done, women and girls had been hurt and they're going, oh my goodness, we were all over it. And the fact is they weren't.” (Wyden, 04:52)

3. Accountability and Federal Action

[06:11–07:44]

• Wyden calls for a regulatory investigation but notes ongoing resistance from federal agencies.
  • Quote: “They got bessant in Treasury Department stonewalled again and again... everything's fine, you don't need any information.” (Wyden, 06:16)
• Congressional avenues: With a potential Senate majority, Wyden pledges to use subpoena power for further investigation and to push both for retrospective accountability and tougher future oversight.

4. The Broader Epstein Network and Follow-the-Money Approach

[07:47–10:05]

• The report raises “very alarming questions” about Epstein's financial associates who plausibly knew more than they have admitted.
  • Quote: “I didn't find those very plausible.” (Wyden, 09:02)
• Wyden underscores the value of “following the money” as a crucial tool in rooting out corruption, noting the example of financier Leon Black transferring implausible sums to Epstein for questionable reasons.
  • Quote: “He gave Epstein like 170 million... His own lawyers thought it was ridiculous that he gave him so much money.” (Wyden, 09:43)

5. Media Suppression and the 60 Minutes Incident

[10:05–11:32]

• The 60 Minutes segment featuring Wyden’s findings did not air, and journalist Sharon Alfonsi was dismissed soon after.
• Wyden’s interpretation: “They threw the game,” suggesting media suppression of the banking angle of the Epstein story.
  • Quote: “They haven't done zip on anything relating to the money. And the follow the money kind of effort has been a blank for 60 Minutes.” (Wyden, 11:24)

6. Legislative Update: The Russia Sanctions Bill and Tariff Authority

[11:35–16:36]

• Wyden expresses deep concern over the Lindsey Graham Russia sanctions bill, which he argues would unnecessarily expand the president’s tariff authority — something Trump seeks for reasons unrelated to sanctions on Russia.
  • Quote: “The idea of giving Donald Trump more tariff authority strikes me as one of the most flawed economic theories I've heard in ages.” (Wyden, 12:31)
• Wyden argues current law already provides sufficient sanctions authority and that expanded tariffs are “taxes” that would hit ordinary Americans hardest (fuel, groceries, rent).
  • Quote: “All these extra tariffs this fall are going to hit Americans with extra expenses, extra taxes.” (Wyden, 13:06)
• He criticizes Congress for ceding its constitutional trade powers and notes the political maneuvering that led to the bill’s advancement despite these issues.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On bank executives’ awareness:
  “The bank executives knew Epstein was dirty and they basically looked the other way.” (Wyden, 01:16)
• On the significance of the report:
  “This is the first and only follow the money effort into Epstein's activities.” (Wyden, 09:14)
• On expanded tariff authority:
  “Tariffs are taxes. The idea of giving Donald Trump more tariff authority strikes me as one of the most flawed economic theories I've heard in ages.” (Wyden, 12:31)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:16: Main findings from the Senate Finance Committee’s Epstein/banks investigation
• 02:39: New evidence about bank reporting failures (Deutsche Bank, JP Morgan, BoA)
• 04:29: Internal emails and bank knowledge of Epstein’s criminal behavior
• 06:11: Regulatory (in)action and the challenge of federal oversight
• 07:47: Accountability for others in Epstein’s network and the “follow the money” strategy
• 09:29: Leon Black’s questionable payments to Epstein
• 10:05: The 60 Minutes suppression controversy
• 11:35: Discussion shifts to Russia sanctions bill and trade authority
• 12:20: Wyden’s critique of increased presidential tariff powers
• 13:54: Constitutional role of Congress in trade and Wyden’s frustration
• 14:51: Senate dynamics and the politics of the Russia sanctions bill

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Overall Tone and Closing

The tone throughout is direct, urgent, and focused on institutional accountability — both in financial regulation and federal oversight. Wyden repeatedly stresses the societal costs of regulatory and legislative failure, advocating for consequences (not just reforms) for elites who enabled criminal activity for profit. The episode concludes with gratitude and an openness to continue the conversation as investigations and legislative battles progress.

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Transcript

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[Katherine Rampel]

of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms. Hi everyone, I'm Katherine Rampel, Economics editor at the Bulwark and I am here with Senator Ron Wyden. Delighted to talk with him about all things trade, banking, money laundering, all sorts of sexy stuff today. Senator, thanks so much for joining me. I'm wondering if we could talk first of all about a recent report that you released relating to Wall Street Bank's relationships with Jeffrey Epstein and others in that orbit for the last few years. As I understand it, you and your team have been looking into the late Jeffrey Epstein's finances. What have you uncovered and what surprised you most?

[Senator Ron Wyden]

What is the most important single aspect of this, Catherine, is Epstein would not have gotten away with all this sex trafficking for so incredibly long if banks had done their job and followed the law. That is the single most important finding of our report. The bank executives knew Epstein was dirty and they basically looked the other way. And what we do in the report is lay out a roadmap for prosecution and further investigation. And the other point that really has been missed is that the people that were involved in this in the banks were not some junior deputy bottle washer

kind of, you know, person.

They were top people. They need to be held accountable. Some of them, for example Mary Erdos,

for example JP Morgan, they are still there and getting bonuses and the like.

[Katherine Rampel]

So can you dig in a little bit and explain to people what evidence we have that the banks and some of these particularly high level executives may have known what they were financing, may have known that their customer was using their accounts potentially for lawbreaking?

[Senator Ron Wyden]

We go through a variety of examples in the report, but let me tell you about one that is really just hot off the presses that are just in the last couple of days, Deutsche bank failed to promptly report to treasury more than $250 million in suspicious transactions tied to Epstein. That is brand new. That is this week. And it's clear that these big banks just didn't do their job. They looked the other way, which is

the title of the report.

Why did they do it? In my view, mostly because it led to more money for them.

In other words, if they spend stopped dealing with Epstein directly, they could say,

oh, we're getting clean.

But then they would take all of

his referrals and there are example after

example of those kinds of things.

And because you follow the federal regulatory

agencies, I know very, very closely, I mean treasury, the Federal Reserve, doj, all

of these agencies ought to follow the road map and start with what wasn't reported, because this should have been for the most part reported to treasury. And you deal with them more than I do.

But FinCEN is kind of the lead in terms of treasury.

[Katherine Rampel]

So you mentioned the Deutsche bank example. I believe your report also found that JP Morgan delayed reporting over $1 billion in suspicious Epstein linked transfers to Treasury. Bank of America failed to properly screen and report $170 million in payments to Epstein. I should clarify. All three banks deny that they acted inappropriately. Is your view that this was negligence, incompetence or something potentially more deliberate?

[Senator Ron Wyden]

We've gotten emails, for example, from bankers talking about Epstein's preference for young girls, but they didn't report his money. So this comes up again and again and I think it was because they could get away with it. In other words, they always talk about, well, I reported such and such.

Most of what they reported, Catherine, is retroactive.

So the damage was done, women and girls had been hurt and they're going, oh my goodness, we were all over it.

And the fact is they weren't. And they had a friendly administration that was supportive of it.

And by the way, the Biden people helped a bit, but not a whole lot.

Nowhere near what I thought was necessary in terms of getting the sars, the reports.

[Katherine Rampel]

And to clarify, is your finding or contention that the banks had him as a customer and maybe that was inappropriate, full stop, or that they explicitly financed some of his unlawful activities?

[Senator Ron Wyden]

Well, he was a customer, but when you're looking the other way, you're enabling somebody to do all these horrifying things.

And so you talked about what I started with.

I went to the floor of the Senate, you know, those following your, you

know, reporting and the like can see what we did.

It was over a billion dollars of J.P. morgan wire transfers and nobody said anything. And when you have that kind of

suspicious activity, this is not rocket science. You're supposed to, under the laws, report it to the federal agencies and they didn't.

[Katherine Rampel]

You have called for federal regulators to investigate. To your knowledge, has any of that happened?

[Senator Ron Wyden]

No. They got bessant in Treasury Department stonewalled again and again, and they sent, you know, Republicans on the floor of the

Senate to go and say everything's fine, you don't need any information.

[Katherine Rampel]

If the executive branch does not investigate treasury or DOJ or any of the issues, independent agencies for that matter, what options does Congress have here to hold anyone accountable?

[Senator Ron Wyden]

Well, the first thing I can tell you is I believe we're going to retake the Senate. If we retake the Senate, and I am the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, we will use our subpoena power

to go get this information.

We also make a variety of recommendations to get tough with both individual bankers and individual banks because there is culpability

on both sides of that house.

[Katherine Rampel]

Can anything be done about actions that have already been taken? Again, some. Some of the findings that you have about banks potentially looking the other way in the past, or would everything that you would be able to do be prospective like to.

[Senator Ron Wyden]

Well, we're, we're, we're certainly going to focus on accountability that relates to abuses in the past, but we're following up right now. For example, a number of the victims

groups have asked for some of the information.

Some of them have actually used it. And these court proceedings proceed very slowly,

but they're even making progress in the lower courts.

[Katherine Rampel]

Were you able to find any additional evidence about people beyond Jeffrey Epstein, but others in his network in his orbit who may have also participated in crimes? One of the frustrations, I think, particularly that I hear from victims, survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse, is that, yeah, there's been a lot of attention paid to him and one person has gone to jail, Ghislaine Maxwell, but he was obviously enabled and abetted and, you know, maybe colluding with lots of other people who may have also been participating in sex crimes through, through his facilitation. So were you able to uncover anything that potentially would allow law enforcement to hold other people accountable? So not just the banks, not just, you know, the late Epstein estate, but, but others.

[Senator Ron Wyden]

Yeah, we found some very alarming questions with respect to the people around Epstein who for years have denied these are his financial people who said, oh, I just wrote up the forms and I didn't have anything to do with it.

I didn't find those very plausible.

But what's important here is this is the first and only follow the money

effort into Epstein's Activities.

And the history in our country is

that if you really want to root out corruption, you have to follow the money. And I wanted to just make a point with respect to Leon Black, the financier. That's why we got into this.

You know, my guys, I have terrific investigators. I went to school on a basketball scholarship.

I recruit these guys like they're LeBron James or something.

And what we found is, is that Leon Black was doing stuff that was just implausible.

He gave Epstein like 170 million, some gigantic sum of money.

He said it had to do with legal assistance. He's not a lawyer.

His own lawyers thought it was ridiculous that he gave him so much money. And same with estate planning. And that's how you catch people who are engaged in corrupt activity. And we're going to continue to focus on it.

[Katherine Rampel]

Notable part of your report, the report that your office released related to 60 Minutes. As I understand it, you were interviewed by Sharon Alfonsi into how major financial institutions had handled Epstein's accounts. That story did not air. Alphonse was fired a couple of months after your interview. What is your interpretation of what happened there?

[Senator Ron Wyden]

Well, first of all, I'd encourage you to reach out to her because she

was pretty outspoken and I've appreciated her comments.

But the reality is that she filmed a major program.

We were in the Finance Committee office for a long time. She came to the Senate office for a decent chunk. Her staff came to the Senate office for a decent chunk of time. And I just think they threw the game because we had a specific effort

to reach out to her question.

She asked him about matters relating to the Virgin Islands, where there was also corrupt activity going on. We went through all this in great detail, and we were led to believe that it was going to have been on by now.

[Katherine Rampel]

Just so our audience knows, CBS released the statement saying, we are proud of our aggressive and extensive reporting on the Epstein scandal. That reporting continues. We air pieces when they are ready. And suggesting that an interview is being suppressed for any reason is categorically false.

[Senator Ron Wyden]

So I would only respond by way of saying they haven't done zip on anything relating to the money. And the follow the money kind of

effort has been a blank for 60 minutes.

[Katherine Rampel]

Yep. Well, as you say, you know, I think it is sort of untrod territory for years. So I'm very glad that your investigators were able to put this together. So, on a separate note, I wanted to ask you about a different issue that I know that your office, and you particularly in particular, are working on. There is a bill that is moving its way through the Senate, the Lindsey Graham Russia sanctions bill, that, as I understand it, would massively expand Donald Trump's tariffing authority. And you are working to try to strip that from the bill. Could you lay out some of your concerns with what this legislation would do?

[Senator Ron Wyden]

My biggest concern, and we see it, is, you know, Trump is now looking at scores of additional countries that he wants to tariff. The idea of giving Donald Trump more

tariff authority strikes me as one of the most flawed economic theories I've heard in ages. And these tariffs are taxes.

You know, number one, Trump, by the

way, under the existing sanctions law, we sent our lawyers out to really look at this in detail.

He's got all the authority he needs for sanctions. He wants to do this as a

way to hit the country with more tariffs because he thinks that's the way to go. And I pointed out to my colleagues,

the number one concern that we've had

as Senate Democrats is we've been concerned

about the cost of living.

That is our top priority. And my concern is all these extra tariffs this fall are going to hit Americans with extra expenses, extra taxes. People are going to find it harder to pay for gas and food and rent and all the rest. I think this is a major mistake from an economic standpoint. And in terms of, you know, politics, I think it's just a huge mistake. And that undermines the affordability and cost of living agenda.

[Katherine Rampel]

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the frustrations that a lot of Americans have not, you know, everyone from, you know, nerdy propeller headed experts who fixate on trade to normal people who are just trying to buy their groceries, is that Congress is supposed to have power of the purse. They are supposed to be regulating international commerce and laying taxes.

[Senator Ron Wyden]

You're being logical.

[Katherine Rampel]

And this president has seized a lot of that authority. That is the Constitution says Congress is supposed to have. He has seized a lot of it. The court says unlawfully, unconstitutionally. And here, this bill would willingly hand over more power to the president to lawfully impose tariffs and mandate that he impose more tariffs. In fact, and I guess my question is, who? How did this bill get this far? I mean, 80 plus members of the Senate, including lots of Democrats, have helped push this bill forward. So I don't understand, like, how we got to this point where this is so close.

[Senator Ron Wyden]

Well, every single Democrat that I know feels strongly about trying to help Zelensky and trying to help his government. So start with that. And I've said, let's do that and saw off the tariff provision.

And I think Lindsey Graham came in,

put together a bulldozer and made it

out like this was necessary, but it's not.

[Katherine Rampel]

Does the legislation actually even require the president to get tougher on Russia or help Ukraine? My understanding is that, like, there are no, there are no new sanctions authorities in this. It just sort of implores Trump to get tougher when it comes to the

[Senator Ron Wyden]

sanctions and the language. There's very little there, there. This is all about giving Trump more flexibility.

It's why he signed off.

I don't think he's going to do anything to his buddy Putin because he

hasn't done anything to him really before. And I think he's going to hit the consumer with these taxes and tariffs and extra expenses.

[Katherine Rampel]

Do you think Democrats would, would own some of the potential costs here then? If this bill does get through right

[Senator Ron Wyden]

now, I can tell you, my Democratic colleagues come up and say, Ron, you, how can we help Zelensky without having all these tariffs?

And I try to find ways to answer the question.

[Katherine Rampel]

Okay, well, we're still waiting for the answer to that question. But not, not from you, but potentially from some of your colleagues. So, yes, thanks for your work on that. You know, like many people out there,

[Senator Ron Wyden]

the more you, the more you can do, because you're, you're our economics authority to just say, look, sanctions you can do under existing rules. Why is everybody trying to inflict the American people with more economic pain related

to groceries and rent and gas and all the like? And that's what I keep coming back to.

This is not a close call, in

my view, with respect to economics.

[Katherine Rampel]

Fair enough. Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, thanks so much for your time today and would love to have you back anytime.

[Senator Ron Wyden]

Let's do it again.