So Awkward! Elon Humiliates Johnson Over Trump’s Bill!

Summary

Bulwark Takes Podcast Summary

Episode Title: So Awkward! Elon Humiliates Johnson Over Trump’s Bill!
Host/Author: The Bulwark
Release Date: June 4, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Sam Stein and Tim Miller delve into the escalating confrontation between Elon Musk and Mike Johnson concerning a contentious bill championed by former President Donald Trump. Released on June 4, 2025, the episode provides a detailed analysis of the unfolding political drama, exploring the strategies, implications, and future ramifications of this high-stakes exchange.

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Elon Musk vs. Mike Johnson: The Escalation

Sam Stein initiates the discussion by highlighting the third round of the ongoing clash between Elon Musk and Mike Johnson, describing it as increasingly "juicier" and more intense. The conversation centers around a specific bill associated with Trump, with both figures taking opposing stances.

• Sam Stein [00:00]: "Hey, guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing out at the Bulwark. I'm here with Tim Miller. We're going to be discussing round three of Elon Musk versus Mike Johnson. Just keeps getting better. Juicier."

Tim Miller probes into Mike Johnson's performance in their exchanges, revealing that Johnson has yet to score any points against Musk.

• Tim Miller [00:10]: "Has Mike Johnson won any rounds yet on the points?"

• Sam Stein [00:14]: "No."

Despite the lack of direct victories, Sam Stein notes Johnson's composed demeanor amidst Musk's aggressive tactics.

• Sam Stein [00:15]: "But he's not flustered. This could. He's. He maintains his very calm demeanor amidst the barrage."

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Timeline of Events

The hosts walk through the chronological sequence of recent interactions, emphasizing the rapid developments that have intensified the conflict.

Mike Johnson's Initial Criticism

The episode begins with Mike Johnson publicly challenging Elon Musk's stance on the bill, criticizing it for potentially increasing the deficit.

• Sam Stein [00:26]: "It all starts this morning when Mike Johnson goes to the cameras and he says, look, I think Elon's dead wrong about this bill that he wants to kill."

Johnson further claims he attempted to contact Musk, who did not respond.

• Sam Stein [00:35]: "I called Elon and he didn't answer my call. And you know, poor Mike. That's rough."

Elon Musk's Twitter Response

In response, Musk takes to Twitter, advocating for a new bill that doesn't exacerbate the deficit, thereby undermining Johnson's criticism.

• Elon Musk [02:56]: "We need a new bill that doesn't grow the deficit."

This triggers a public exchange where Johnson reiterates Musk's stance, framing it to garner support against the bill.

• Mike Johnson [01:48]: "Elon Musk just said, we need a brand new bill that doesn't grow the deficit... We need a brand new bill that doesn't grow the deficit."

Musk elaborates on the bill's merits, emphasizing its complexity and benefits despite imperfections.

• Elon Musk [01:59]: "We worked on the bill for almost 14 months. You can't go back to the drawing board, and we shouldn't. ... We're proud of this product."

Subsequently, Musk urges his vast social media following to pressure representatives and senators to oppose the bill.

• Sam Stein [02:39]: "Elon Musk's tweets out again, urging people to call the representatives and senators to what he says, 'kill the bill.'"

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Analysis of Political Tactics

Tim Miller draws parallels between Musk's approach and former President Trump's 2016 campaign strategies, highlighting the tactical advantages of swift, unfiltered communication.

• Tim Miller [03:07]: "Listening to you run through all of that, it's reminiscent of something for me... the rapidness of it... that's not how this shit happens now."

He contrasts traditional political operations, which rely on carefully crafted press releases and strategic communication, with Musk's direct and immediate engagement via social media.

• Tim Miller [03:46]: "Elon popping out with his thumbs to 100 million people on X and just being like, this guy's a loser."

This unmediated approach grants Musk a significant tactical edge, reminiscent of Trump's ability to quickly shift narratives and mobilize supporters.

Sam Stein concurs, suggesting that this dynamic creates a challenging environment for traditional politicians like Johnson to effectively counter Musk's narratives.

• Sam Stein [06:10]: "Any Republican who does have reservations or wants to seem like they have reservations won't be stepping into an abyss."

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Impact on House Republicans

The hosts discuss the broader implications for House Republicans, particularly those balancing loyalty to Trump with navigating Musk's influential stance.

Sam Stein points out that Republican figures with closer ties or more freedom to align with Musk, such as Rand Paul, Holly Murkowski, and Susan Collins, may find themselves in precarious positions.

• Sam Stein [09:05]: "Rand at this point is gone. Mike Lee seems like he's getting towards that place... They can't lose a fourth, so that's that."

Tim Miller emphasizes that Musk's direct intervention limits traditional backchannel negotiations, leaving Republicans with diminished options to sway the situation discreetly.

• Tim Miller [08:17]: "They have some real moneyed interest in a megaphone right behind them, cheering them on... What leverage do they have over Elon at this point?"

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Elon Musk's Influence and Political Leverage

Tim Miller assesses Musk’s influence, suggesting that despite his wealth and status, his impact on the legislative process may be limited when compared to entrenched political interests.

• Tim Miller [08:16]: "Zero... You've already taken his Precious tax credits out of the fucking bill."

He critiques Musk's focus on issues like the debt, proposing that aligning more with popular areas such as Medicaid or tax reforms might yield greater political traction.

• Tim Miller [08:22]: "If I was advising Elon and I'm like, you really want to fuck these guys up, you should maybe lean a little bit more into the Medicaid or a little bit more into some of the tax stuff."

Despite strategic misalignments, Musk's persistent opposition introduces a significant variable into the legislative process, compelling Republicans to navigate this unorthodox challenge.

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Media Involvement and Future Implications

The discussion touches upon the role of media outlets like Breitbart and their evolving stance in the context of this conflict. Sam Stein notes the historical friction between Musk and Breitbart, suggesting potential for further media-driven confrontations.

• Sam Stein [09:49]: "Elon and Breitbart have a little bit of friction in history. So we could end up seeing a bit of back and forth there, too."

Tim Miller observes an ironic shift, with Breitbart now seemingly supporting establishment agendas that Musk opposes, indicating complex media dynamics at play.

• Tim Miller [09:05]: "Breitbart was the terrorists trying to ruin every bill... now it's Matt Boyle running cover for this."

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Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Sam Stein and Tim Miller reflect on the unpredictable and high-energy nature of the ongoing Elon Musk versus Mike Johnson saga. They anticipate continued developments and express their intent to revisit the topic in future episodes.

• Sam Stein [10:17]: "Let's sit back, pop the popcorn... Actually, no, I do the gummy."

• Tim Miller [10:36]: "Appreciate this. I'm sure we'll be talking about Elon versus Mike Johnson tomorrow."

The hosts underscore the significance of this conflict as a microcosm of modern political battles, marked by rapid communication, personal branding, and the interplay between traditional politics and unconventional influencers.

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Notable Quotes

• Sam Stein [00:15]: "He maintains his very calm demeanor amidst the barrage."
• Elon Musk [01:59]: "You cannot make perfect the enemy of the very, very, very good. We're proud of this product."
• Tim Miller [03:07]: "The rapidness of it... that's not how this shit happens now."
• Sam Stein [06:10]: "Any Republican who does have reservations... won't be stepping into an abyss."
• Tim Miller [08:22]: "If I was advising Elon... you should maybe lean a little bit more into the Medicaid or a little bit more into some of the tax stuff."

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This episode of Bulwark Takes offers a comprehensive and insightful exploration of the dynamic and evolving confrontation between Elon Musk and Mike Johnson, situating it within the broader context of political strategy, media influence, and legislative processes.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing out at the Bulwark. I'm here with Tim Miller. We're going to be discussing round three of Elon Musk versus Mike Johnson. Just keeps getting better. Juicier.

[Tim Miller]

Has Mike Johnson won any rounds yet on the points?

[Sam Stein]

He. No.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Sam Stein]

But he's not flustered. This could. He's. He maintains his very calm demeanor amidst the barrage.

[Tim Miller]

No knockouts. It's just 10 to nine on the scorecard for all three rounds.

[Sam Stein]

Who's doing the rope? A dove? We don't know yet. We'll figure it out. Elon may be throwing too many haymakers here. We'll see a little bit of sort of fourth wall here. We were talking about doing this recording and Tim was like, well, I've already talked about it. And in fact, we have talked about. I think you and I have done two Elon recordings in a row at this point. But it's an evolving storyline and it just got really a lot more interesting and juicier in just the last hour. We're recording this around 3:30pm on, on Wednesday. So I'm going to go through chronologically what happened and. And then Tim's just gonna, you know, do his thing. So cook this morning. It all starts this morning when Mike Johnson goes to the. The cameras and he says, look, I think Elon's dead wrong about this bill that he wants to kill. It's weird because we talked about it for 20 minutes and then he did a 180. And then he adds this. I called Elon and he didn't answer my call. And you know, poor Mike. That's rough. Okay, thank you. So now fast forward a couple hours. The count unusual whales clips Mike Johnson saying, I called Elon Musk last night and he didn't answer my call. And Elon Musk responds on Twitter, quote, we need a new bill that doesn't grow the deficit. And that's it. And then Mike Johnson gets asked about Elon Musk and he says this.

[Mike Johnson]

Elon Musk just said, we need a brand new bill that doesn't grow the deficit. He was actually, quote, tweeting a video of you from the press conference this morning saying you tried to reach him last night. Do you have any response? He says, we need a brand new bill that doesn't grow the deficit.

[Elon Musk]

Elon, we don't have time for a brand new bill. And I want Elon and all my friends to recognize the complexity of what we've accomplished here. This extraordinary piece of legislation. Record number of savings Record tax cuts for the American people and all the other benefits in it. We worked on the bill for almost 14 months. You can't go back to the drawing board, and we shouldn't. We have a great product to deliver here. So I know it does it. It's not perfect by some people's estimations, but you cannot make perfect the enemy of the very, very, very good. We're proud of this product. The Republicans are proud of it, and we're happy to go out and explain that to everybody. So I'll continue to try to reach Elon and tell him, extol the merits of our work here. I hope he'll understand it.

[Mike Johnson]

Thank you.

[Sam Stein]

And then Elon Musk's tweets out again, urging people to call the representatives and senators to what he says, quote, kill the bill. And so here we are with Elon Musk calling for the bill to be killed.

[Tim Miller]

So I'm having one element. I want to get into the substance here because I do think it's pretty important, but I want to have one kind of element of PTSD about the tactics. Just listening to you run through all of that, it's reminiscent of something for me.

[Sam Stein]

Is it Obamacare?

[Tim Miller]

No, it's Jeb versus Trump 2016. Right. You know where Mike Johnson is in the Jeb role, where it's like, is he too good? Anybody? I don't mean to pick on Jeb in particular, who I worked for, who I love, but it could have been Marco, anybody. It was really normal politician versus Trump. But the PTSD is there for me since I worked for Jeff. But it's like this notion of normal politician, like, provides a talking point, you know, that is. That is calc. That is very careful. You know, that's like, we've been working together. There is a coalition. You know, there's a certain amount of time that we need to get this bill done.

[Sam Stein]

Don't you know how it's always done, Eli? Yes.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. We need it to work for the American people. You know, you do the politician hand thing, and it's like, okay. And then you say that. And then usually in the old days in politics, you know, you'd wait till the next news cycle, maybe the next day, and like, your other. The. The other guy would be like, well, I don't know. I'm still against it. It's a dumb bill because of this policy issue. But that's not how this shit happens. Like, you give a press conference where you've given your response, you've talked to your team, you've talked to your strategist, and as soon as your response is out there, Elon's popping out with his thumbs to 100 million people on X and just being like, this guy's a loser. Call. Call his office and tell him to tell. And like, that was such a tactical advantage for Trump in 2016 during these primaries is. It was just a. The rapidness of it. You know, the press release wasn't getting edited by the communications director and the team. It's just, it's the candidate and their thumbs just going ham. And that is a tactical advantage versus, you know, a more traditional political operation. And that's not to say that in this specific case, Elon, what could Mike Johnson.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, what could Mike Johnson do different right here?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. You're not saying he's not going to.

[Sam Stein]

Go on Twitter to be like, elon, lay off the ketamine motherfucker.

[Tim Miller]

That's one thing he could do. You know, Elon, I challenge you to a cage match. You know, so, so, so, right. Is a structural disadvantage to be Mike Johnson in this case, substantively. Look, I think what is meaningful about this is there was a question when we got on yesterday to talk about this about, like, was Elon off his meds? Is he just popping off? Because, you know, after, after he had popped off yesterday, he also, like, retweeted Mike Lee approvingly. He'd retweeted some weird red pill stuff like, okay, Elon's not really going full force here. He sent one thing. Let's play it by ear to go from that till today, being like, call your Senate off, call your offices. And then. And then next November, this was another tweet you didn't read. But next November, you know, the people that betrayed the country are going to lose something. He said something to that it in front of me. Right. Like, that change is pretty notable and, like, might impact the actions of the people on the Hill. I still kind of think that, like, the inertia of they have to do something for Trump, like, will outweigh anything Elon does. But. But this is becoming much more politically prickly in the last couple hours than it was before for House Republicans.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, yeah, 100%. 100%. Because now, though, any Republican who does have reservations or wants to seem like they have reservations won't be stepping into an abyss. Right, Right. They be, they'll be, They'll. They'll know that they have some real moneyed interest in a megaphone right behind them, cheering them on. And let's be real about these people, I mean, that's all they really care about is being cool with the crowd, right? They want the crowd's love. And that's what honestly prevents a lot of them from taking quasi principled stands. And in this case, they'll be much more unlikely to do it because they know that they will have a safety net underneath them. I will say the other thing that's interesting is that it's clear that Johnson, at least, And I'm assuming the Trump.

[Tim Miller]

People, too, Ron Johnson or Mike Johnson.

[Sam Stein]

Mike Johnson, have tried to back channel to Elon and he's just not having it. And I think that's the tell here is like, he didn't answer the call, right? Like, he. In normal times, if he wanted to be a team player, if he wanted to, like, or at least, you know, give him some benefit of the doubt, he would have answered the call. But he's not answering the call. So he's just. He's in.

[Tim Miller]

The thing about ptsd, within the band of normal politics, there's like an omerta, you know, like, again, I'm just going back to 2016. There were a couple of times where something happened. Like somebody from the Ted Cruz team would call me and just be like, bro, like, this isn't right. Like what. You know what I mean? Like, you can have. You can have a behind the scenes. Like, like, this isn't fair or this is right, or that's not in our interest to both do this. Like, like, let's think about something else, you know, and maybe.

[Sam Stein]

Would you ever have those calls with the Trump team?

[Tim Miller]

No. That's what I'm saying. Maybe you wouldn't listen to them, right? But they would know. They would know that you're. I'm not. That Jeb isn't going to pop off on Twitter and just be like, we just got a call from some loser over at the Trump team. And I don't. So that's what you. You can't deal with Elon or Trump like that because they're just wild animals. You know, it's like if you're, like, if you call them, they might live, tweet the call. Like you have no idea what's going to happen. And so, like, in this case, like that type of politics, like kind of the back room politics, like, ain't working with you.

[Sam Stein]

Exactly. The leopard eating the face or whatever cliche you want to have. But, like, what leverage do they have over Yale in this point?

[Tim Miller]

Zero.

[Sam Stein]

None. None.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Zero. I mean, I guess they already took.

[Sam Stein]

His Precious tax credits out of the fucking bill.

[Tim Miller]

Right, like that. Right. Like some star, they give him some other carrot for some bill, but he's like the richest guy in the world. Does he care about that stuff? Yeah, and I know it's. It's a. It's a sticky wicket for these guys. I do think that the fact that Elon has, like, leaned in on the debt as if he's Alan Simpson from 2006 is not like, really the strongest political area. Like, if I was advising Elon and I'm like, you really want to fuck these guys up, you should maybe lean a little bit more into the Medicaid or a little bit more into some of the tax stuff. But that said, he's correct on the merits and. And there will be some audience for it in both the Senate and the House with Ron Johnson in particular is coming to mind and some of the freedom.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, yeah, well, Rand. Rand at this point is gone. Mike Lee seems like he's getting towards that place. Ron Johnson now has complete liberty to say, yep, I'm right. That's three right there. Then you had the Medicaid stuff. You have Holly Murkowski, Collins. I mean, you can't lose a fourth, so that's that. They might still sneak it through, but it's going to be really, really interesting to watch. I will just note Breitbart map Oil is now out there suggesting that Elon's doing this because of the electric vehicle tax credits, that it's all about the bottom line. Those two sites, Elon and Breitbart, have a little bit of friction in history. So we could end up seeing a bit of back and forth there, too.

[Tim Miller]

What an interesting change of place. For years, Breitbart was the terrorists trying to ruin every bill that went through Congress and threatening anybody that voted for it, saying, you're for swamp here for the big debt and deficit. And now it's Matt Boyle running cover for this. The. The establishment's desire to increase the debt by, you know, 2.5 to 5 trillion over 10 years. Really, really interesting change of.

[Sam Stein]

Well, let's sit back. Let's sit back, pop the popcorn, watch a little bit. Yeah, yeah, little bong hit and just enjoy it. Actually, no, I do the gummy. All right, Tim. Thanks, man. Appreciate this. I'm sure we'll be talking about Elon versus Mike Johnson tomorrow, so save your.

[Tim Miller]

Thoughts and see you then, buddy.

[Sam Stein]

All right, talk to you later.