Stop Using Cops as Props!

Summary

Bulwark Takes: "Stop Using Cops as Props!"

Release Date: May 18, 2025
Host: The Bulwark
Guest: Officer Michael Fanone, Former Metropolitan DC Police Department

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Stop Using Cops as Props!" from Bulwark Takes, Ben Parker interviews Officer Michael Fanone, a decorated member of the Metropolitan DC Police Department and a hero from the January 6th insurrection at the US Capitol. The discussion delves into the politicization of law enforcement, the aftermath of January 6th, and the complex relationship between politicians and police officers.

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Background of Officer Michael Fanone

[00:00] Ben Parker:
Ben Parker introduces Officer Michael Fanone, highlighting his bravery during the January 6th insurrection and his long-standing career in law enforcement.

[00:19] Michael Fanone:
Fanone clarifies his role, emphasizing that he was among the police officers defending the Capitol, not the insurrectionists.

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Motivation Behind "From One Cop to Another"

[01:00] Michael Fanone:
Fanone discusses his Substack piece, "From One Cop to Another," written for National Police Officers Memorial Day. He reflects on his two-decade tenure with the Metropolitan Police Department and a year with the US Capitol Police. Fanone expresses concern over how both major political parties have politicized and pandered to law enforcement, adversely affecting officers' integrity and duties.

[02:10] Michael Fanone:
He warns officers about the Republican Party's superficial praise, suggesting it masks ulterior motives that may compel officers to engage in immoral or illegal actions. Fanone underscores the importance of officers adhering to their constitutional oaths over political affiliations.

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Politicization of Law Enforcement

[03:50] Ben Parker:
Parker summarizes Fanone's argument, stating that politicians' overt support for police often seeks something in return, rather than genuine admiration for law enforcement.

[04:20] Michael Fanone:
Fanone cites January 6th as a prime example of politicization. He criticizes the administration's actions, including the pardon of individuals who assaulted officers, arguing it undermines the notion that the Republican Party genuinely supports law enforcement.

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Experiences from January 6th

[06:11] Ben Parker:
Parker prompts Fanone to elaborate on the assaults he and his fellow officers endured during the insurrection, referencing viral videos that captured the brutality.

[06:49] Michael Fanone:
Fanone recounts the violent attacks he faced, detailing how assailants physically restrained and assaulted him, including attempts to disarm him. He emphasizes the coordinated nature of the assault and the use of tools like tasers against officers.

[07:52] Ben Parker:
Parker acknowledges Fanone's testimony during the suspects' trials.

[07:54] Michael Fanone:
Fanone explains that all assailants pleaded guilty, providing truthful accounts during sentencing hearings and accepting responsibility for their actions. He expresses disillusionment when Donald Trump pardoned these individuals, undermining the rule of law.

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Post-Pardon Reflections and Attempts at Confrontation

[08:17] Ben Parker:
Parker inquires about any interactions Fanone has had with the pardoned insurrectionists.

[09:06] Ben Parker:
He references an incident where insurrectionists attempted to confront Fanone at a conference, interpreting it as an attempt to intimidate.

[09:23] Ben Parker:
Parker describes the confrontation initiated by Ivan Ranklin and Enrique Tario, suggesting it was orchestrated for viral attention.

[09:53] Michael Fanone:
Fanone discusses the motivations behind such confrontations, highlighting the commercialization of the insurrectionists' actions through merchandise sales and their attempts to incite fear among opponents.

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The Impact of Politicization on Law Enforcement

[10:28] Ben Parker:
Parker offers a personal perspective, noting his instinct to confront intimidation tactics, contrasting with the insurrectionists' intentions.

[11:08] Michael Fanone:
Fanone reflects on the early signs of politicization within law enforcement, particularly following the Michael Brown shooting. He criticizes how media and political narratives portrayed police negatively, leading to increased violence against officers and eroding community relationships.

[14:45] Ben Parker:
Parker acknowledges Fanone's points and transitions to discussing the absence of a truly pro-police political party.

[14:46] Michael Fanone:
Fanone elaborates on how both major political parties have co-opted law enforcement into the broader culture war, diminishing genuine support for officers. He advocates for distancing politicians from police activities to preserve the integrity of law enforcement.

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Advice to Fellow Officers and Conclusion

[17:50] Ben Parker:
Parker highlights the final advice from Fanone's piece, where he advises officers to respond assertively when ordered to act against constitutional principles.

[18:12] Michael Fanone:
Fanone shares his blunt response to such orders: "This is America and you should go fuck yourself," emphasizing the importance of upholding constitutional values over political directives.

[18:17] Ben Parker:
Parker thanks Fanone for his insights, encouraging listeners to engage with The Bulwark community.

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Notable Quotes

• Michael Fanone on Political Motivations:
  "[...] the motivation behind it is because this administration wants you to do things that are immoral and in many cases, illegal."
  [02:10]

• Michael Fanone on Constitutional Oath:
  "It's important for officers to think about their oath to the Constitution and what that means and recognize the fact that they work for the American people..."
  [02:10]

• Michael Fanone on January 6th Assaults:
  "It was a violent and brutal assault."
  [07:52]

• Michael Fanone on Pardons:
  "[...] he would pardon individuals who were afforded due process after having assaulted police officers and then sentenced to jail time and then were let go. It just doesn't. It doesn't add up."
  [08:26]

• Michael Fanone on Politicization:
  "Politicization, regardless of what side of the aisle is incredibly dangerous in this country."
  [14:46]

• Michael Fanone's Advice:
  "This is America and you should go fuck yourself."
  [18:12]

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Key Takeaways

1. Politicization of Law Enforcement: Both major political parties have leveraged police support for partisan gains, compromising the integrity and neutrality of law enforcement.

2. January 6th Insurrection: Fanone emphasizes the violent assaults on officers during the insurrection and criticizes subsequent political actions, such as pardons, that undermine justice and the rule of law.

3. Impact on Officers: The politicization has led to increased violence against officers, erosion of community trust, and internal conflicts within law enforcement regarding allegiance and duty.

4. Call for Neutrality: Fanone advocates for the separation of politics and policing, urging politicians to refrain from using police as political props to preserve the sanctity and independence of law enforcement.

5. Personal Integrity: Officers are encouraged to uphold their constitutional oaths above political pressures, even in the face of intimidation or coercion.

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Conclusion

In "Stop Using Cops as Props!", Officer Michael Fanone offers a poignant critique of the current state of law enforcement's relationship with politics in the United States. He calls for a return to principled policing, free from political agendas, to ensure that officers serve the American people with integrity and uphold the Constitution above all.

Transcript

[Ben Parker]

Hi, everyone. Ben Parker from the Bulwark. It is my pleasure and honor to be joined by Officer Michael Fanone, one of the Heroes of the January 6th insurrection at the US Capitol, former member of the Metropolitan DC Police Department. Officer Fanon, thanks for joining me.

[Michael Fanone]

No, thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it. And it's sad, but we actually have to quantify. I was, when he says I was a hero of January 6th, I was one of the police officers that showed up that day, not the insurrectionists.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, that's right. To me, that's what being a hero on that day meant. I guess other people have a different interpretation, but we will talk about that because on your substack, you had a really powerful piece you wrote for National Police Officers Memorial day, which is May 15, and it's called From One Cop to Another. What made you want to write this piece, Officer Fanon?

[Michael Fanone]

I mean, coming from a law enforcement background, for those that don't know, I spent two decades with the Metropolitan Police Department in Washington, D.C. before that, I spent a year with the United States Capitol Police. And so I spent the better part of my adult life as an American law enforcement officer. And I am seeing the way that or have experienced the way that law enforcement officers in this country have been pandered to and politicized by both the Republican and Democratic Party.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, we got to talk about this, because this is what the piece is all about. It's how politicians use and abuse their relationship with law enforcement for political ends. And obviously you have a huge amount of experience with that because of January 6th. And you wrote a lot about. Again, From One Cop to Another is the title of the piece. You wrote a lot about what other police officers should think about January 6th and everything that happened after. So why don't you just give us a summary, if you had to put it in a few sentences. What should other police officers, what should everyone think about what it means to back the blue?

[Michael Fanone]

I think most officers recognize pandering when they see it. And, you know, we're experiencing that as a community now with the Republican Party that seems to be showering us with this hallow praise. And I think it's important for officers to recognize the motivation behind it is because this administration wants you to do things that are immoral and in many cases, illegal. And listen, you know, as a police officer for two decades, I, I had what I would probably describe as a high school level understanding of the Constitution, being that I was actually a high school dropout, I didn't even quite surpass that. But that being said, I. It's important for officers to, in this moment, think about their oath to the Constitution and what that means and recognize the fact that they work for the American people and they work for the principles that are enshrined in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Not for Donald Trump and not for maga. And you really can't be a supporter of both. And so the purpose of the piece is for officers to hear from another law enforcement officer that perspective and that point of view in hopes that it will get them thinking about what it is that they're doing in the moment, that they may be asked to do something that is immoral or illegal.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, it's less about interacting with police and more about interacting with politicians. Right. So whenever a politician is being really nice, it means they want something. And in this case, politicians definitely want something from law enforcement. And you write a little bit about what that is, why the Republican Party really wants to portray itself as being closely allied to law enforcement. But it's not because they like enforcing the law. It's not what they like the guys with badges and guns who are allowed to do nasty stuff.

[Michael Fanone]

I tackle that as well. And, you know, the example, obviously, that I point to is January 6, 2021, an insurrection which was incited by Donald Trump, carried out by his supporters, who assaulted members of law enforcement, myself included, at our Capitol building in the hopes of preventing Congress from certifying a free and fair election. Now, listen, that event in and of itself has been politicized to no end. And I think a lot of police officers are just tired of even hearing about it. And I hear a lot of whataboutism and, you know, the riots in 2020. And while I experienced this, and we'll take, for instance, you know, break it down into the individual assaults of police officers and recognize the fact that behind each of those individuals that Trump later pardoned was an assault committed against a police officer in which a police officer, know you, the American law enforcement officer's brother or sister, who went to court, testified, swore under oath that they would give a true and accurate accounting of what happened. And then those individuals were either found guilty or pled guilty as part of their due process, which they were afforded and then sentenced in accordance to the law. And so how can you support a political party or feel that this political party supports you when they would pardon individuals who were afforded due process after having assaulted police officers and then sentenced to jail time and then were let go? It just doesn't. It doesn't add up.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, and it's, you know, it's not just the sworn testimony they provided. We've all seen the videos. If it's been a while since you watched the videos, go back and re watch the videos because it's, there's no question about what's happening. Right. You and your fellow officers were clearly labeled as police. You were wearing, you know, police uniforms. Some people were wearing like, you know, the full riot control gear. There was no question. And people were what, spraying bear spray into your faces, bashing you with, with, with you know, flag poles and I think in one case with a fire extinguisher. I mean, just crushing you. You told the story before about, at one point they were yelling and grabbing at you, get his gun. Get his gun. Right.

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah. No, the individuals that assaulted me and, and there was a total of five that, that were involved in a direct assault of my person. You had Albuquerque Cosper head who grabbed me around the neck, pulled me off the police line and restrained me in this crowd of thousands of, of individuals. During that time, another individual, Kyle Young, lunged at me, tried to remove my firearm from its holster. All the while, you know, members of the crowd were yelling to get his gun and kill him with his gun. I had Daniel Rodriguez use a taser device and apply it to my neck a number of times. And Wayne Snoots, who restrained my, my arms, you know, while individuals were beating me with their fists, some with, you know, metal objects. I mean, it was a, it was a violent and brutal assault.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, you testified at their trials.

[Michael Fanone]

So none of them went to trial. Each and every one of them pled guilty, you know, admitted under oath, you know, in their pre sentencing sentencing hearings, what they were culpable of the assaults that they committed against me, accepted responsibility and were sentenced.

[Ben Parker]

And then how did you feel when on one of the first days of his second term, Donald Trump pardoned them and thousands of other people who had also assaulted law enforcement?

[Michael Fanone]

It was expected, but it still was shocking. I mean, listen, the guy announced his candidacy for his second term in office in Waco, Texas, the scene of one of the bloodiest encounters between the American fringe militia movement and law enforcement, in which numerous law enforcement officers lost their lives. He's been promising these pardons literally since day one, and has stood shoulder to shoulder with members of the January 6th insurrection and called them heroes and patriots.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, and he claims to back the blue, but you were the blue that day. Have you heard from any of the people who attacked you or any of the other January 6th insurrectionists since they've been free, have they tried to get in contact with you or have you heard from them at all?

[Michael Fanone]

No.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah. There was the episode, though, we were, we were both at the principal's first conference where there was a bomb threat by some of the proud boys. So that, that maybe counts, I think.

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah, I guess that's a, in a form of reaching out. Um, and then Ivan Ranklin and Enrique Tario showed up. So I, I guess.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, and they showed up because they knew that you and Henry Dunn and you're a few of the other officers from January six. They knew you were going to be there, so they showed up to confront you. And someone called in a bomb threat?

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah, no, they, they were looking for a viral moment. I mean, that's what it's all about. I mean, you can, There was an article that came out, I think it was yesterday in the Washington Post that talks about all the money that's being made by these insurrectionists in the aftermath of their pardons by selling swag and, you know, T shirts and other, I guess, memorabilia. But that, that's really what I think what that moment was all about. And an attempt to, you know, strike fear into those that are in opposition to, to the MAGA extremist movement.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah, well, look, I, I'm gonna go out on a limb here. We've only just met, we don't know each other well, but I'm just looking at you, and just from what I know about you, when I look at you, the first thing I think is I'm going to try to strike fear into this guy. That's not my first reaction, saying he looks easy to scare. No, that's, that's not, that's not what I think. Um, so I, I, I want to ask you, you spent this long career in law enforcement before January 6th, did you see signs of politicians trying to politicize law enforcement then? And what did you think about it before it all came to a head during the insurrection?

[Michael Fanone]

Really, the first time that I ever experienced the politicization of, of law enforcement on a personal level was, you know, in the aftermath of the Michael Brown shooting, which I believe was in late 2015, early 2016. And then you saw this national media attention turn towards these polarizing events involving communities of color and police officers. And so on the one hand, I'm the first person to tell you that law enforcement in this country most certainly is not above reform and reproach. That being said, the way that those conversations were conducted and handled was not in any way, at least in my mind, productive. In fact, in a lot of ways, it was counterproductive and it was dangerous to police officers. And what I experienced was the assassination style killings of uniformed law enforcement officers for no other reason than they were wearing a uniform and doing their job. And so it had a chilling effect, I think, on police officers across this country. And at a time in which, you know, there was a lot of focus on rebuilding relationships with the community, this idea that, you know, legacy media organizations and politicians would paint a picture of police officers as being, you know, these rabid animals out in the streets trying to kill people of color was just not productive. And, and it was destroying, you know, any headway that had been made in rebuilding some of those relationships. I mean, I worked for the Metropolitan Police department in Washington, D.C. d.C. Is a bastion of far left politics. We were doing progressive community policing before that was even a term. And so, you know, what I saw was relationships that had been built come tumbling down in the aftermath of this. And then officers like myself, I mean, that was the main reason I voted for Donald Trump in 2016, was because I saw one political party that in my mind was anti police, that was about punishing people for choosing the profession of law enforcement. Now, whether or not that was the case with, you know, each and every member of the Democratic Party, I mean, I know that for a fact that now that is not true. And obviously, you know, Fox News did a wonderful job of making it seem as though that was the case. But, you know, perception in a lot of instances is reality, and it was my reality. That, coupled with the things that I was actually seeing and witnessing, made it impossible for me to support a Democratic candidate at that time. And then I saw Donald Trump come along and whisper sweet nothings into my ear as a police officer. And I bought into that bullshit. And so.

[Ben Parker]

I.

[Michael Fanone]

What I wanted to say in the piece was that while, you know, in the one hand, being politicized in a negative light is bad. So is being pandered to and politicized in a positive light. It's all, you know, if a politician wants to do something good for a police officer, then do your job. Draft legislation that, you know, in some way raises funding for training for law enforcement officers or, you know, whatever the case may be. But we have a Hatch act for a reason. I don't care if it's a leisurely photo or not. I don't think police officers should be taking pictures with politicians and vice versa. I think that, you know, politicization, regardless of what side of the aisle is incredibly dangerous in this country. And, you know, we're living that right now. I mean, we literally have a political party in the Republican Party that celebrates the weaponization of law enforcement.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. You know, the best thing to do for politicians to do during campaign season with police is leave them out of it. Right? Yeah. Do you think we have a pro police party in this country today? No, I think that's right. I mean, you know, I'm sure there are. There are a lot of Democrats who take your points about policing very seriously. And I think, you know, there are a lot who have learned a lot since, as you said, the Michael Brown era. I really, you know, Republicans pretend to be pro police, but as you said. Right. Like they're partying the people who attacked you and tried to kill you and try to take your gun and shoot you with it.

[Michael Fanone]

Law enforcement's gotten, you know, sucked up into the culture war, just like the military and just like any other organization that, you know, at. At its face, you would associate with, you know, patriotism and, you know, the red, white and blue and all that just jazz. But it's. It's just an incredibly complicated issue. You know, law enforcement is not something that we can just say, all right, we're going to stop and fix this problem. Like, you got to refit the ship while it's at sea.

[Ben Parker]

Yeah.

[Michael Fanone]

So I, I would much rather see, you know, politicians stay the hell away from police officers because it doesn't do us any good in the community. Right. You know, some poor schmuck officer riding his bicycle being forced to do a photo op with, like, Kevin McCarthy when he did his National Police week bike ride. You know, somebody's going to go see that guy in the community and say, oh, I know what kind of cop he is. He's a MAGA cop. It just doesn't, you know, it doesn't help. And law enforcement agencies should. Should recognize that, and they should do a much better job of keeping their people separate from these events that are clearly designed as a publicity stunt.

[Ben Parker]

All right? So I would be remiss if we didn't talk about the very last line of your piece because you give a little bit of advice. You say the next time your MAGA loving supervisor gives you an order that is contradictory to the principles and laws enshrined in our Constitution and Bill of Rights, the one you sort of uphold, you told them what to say. What do they say?

[Michael Fanone]

I told them this is America and you should go fuck yourself.

[Ben Parker]

Michael Fanone, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for watching the Bulwark. Make sure you like the video, subscribe to the page, leave a comment, and if you really like what we're doing, come on over to the bulwark.com Become a bulwark, please +member. We'll see you back here next time.

[Michael Fanone]

Thanks, Ben.