Podcast Summary: "Stop Waiting for a Happy Ending—This Is the Fight!"
Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: Jonathan V. Last (JVL), The Bulwark
Guest: Richard Rushfield, The Ankler
Date: September 19, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Jonathan V. Last sits down with Richard Rushfield for an urgent, unsparing conversation about the collapse of resistance to authoritarianism in America, Hollywood’s complicity, the tech industry’s growing power, and the perils of waiting for a ‘happy ending’. The discussion ranges from the Jimmy Kimmel controversy and late night TV’s decline under political pressure, to systemic democratic erosion, historical analogies, and strategies for meaningful resistance. The tone is frank, at times despairing, but also searching for pragmatic ways to oppose creeping fascism, with both hosts drawing on their experience in journalism, entertainment, and history.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Hollywood Panic & the Jimmy Kimmel Controversy
[03:05 – 07:44]
- Richard Rushfield introduces Hollywood’s state of “full-blown panic and freak out” after news about Jimmy Kimmel’s position on late night television, referencing political pressure on entertainment.
- Rushfield to JVL: “So you’re here to reassure us that it’s all going to be just fine, right?”
- JVL’s bleak reply: “Sure. In the long run, everyone’s dead, we’re all food for worms. But this is what Hungary looked like a decade and a half ago, right? …This is how it goes. This is… fascism.” [03:55]
- Both note that the threats to media are now happening out in the open—no more backdoor strong-arming.
2. The Retreat Under Authoritarian Pressure
[07:39 – 12:56]
- JVL highlights the real danger: The state doesn’t even bother to hide its extortion or threats to media companies—power is now exercised “in public.”
- Rushfield is stunned by Hollywood’s silence: “For the first time in its history, Hollywood has been strangely silent on everything that has happened.”
- The two agree that Hollywood’s expectation to be left alone is foolish: “If you think Hollywood is not on the list of priorities, you’re out of your damn mind.” [09:49]
- JVL articulates why this moment feels so dangerous: “There is much less dissent now because people understand that there are stakes and it isn’t free… You saw what J.D. Vance said… they will take your property, take your employment, and if you’ve broken the law, take your freedom… That’s just textbook authoritarianism.” [12:46]
3. Tech Takeover & the Shifting Foundations of Power
[10:48 – 14:41]
- JVL: Tech conglomerates now dictate a large portion of what was formerly "Hollywood"; their priorities are strictly mercenary and accommodationist, not ideological.
- Insight: “It’s easier to hurt Elon Musk by driving down the price of the stock…than to boycott a Disney streaming service.” [19:31]
- Tech’s consolidation gives them “feudalistic” control—dangerous in a system rewarding loyalty over prosperity.
4. Is Resistance Futile? Where Does Change Come From?
[14:41 – 20:37]
- Rushfield asks: “Are we at the place now where there is no—like, everything helps and silence doesn’t do any good?”
- JVL: “I don’t know that there is anything affirmative that any of us can do to stop this train. Because the problem, the root of the problem, is that the American people are rotten. The American people wanted this. They voted for it.” [14:41]
- Historical parallel: Calls for resisting, “Don’t surrender in advance…make them fight for every inch of ground.” (Timothy Snyder reference, [18:03])
- Mass mobilization, real-world protests, and targeted actions (e.g., Tesla boycott) might have practical effects.
5. Consolidation, Oligarchy, and the End of the Studio Era
[23:20 – 26:22]
- Discussion about the shift from independent Hollywood studios to vast, tech-owned media conglomerates—leaving virtually no room for artistic, ideological, or business independence.
- Rushfield: “We’re a vassal state now... You’ll have two studios, Universal and Sony, independent of tech. The tech world’s priorities are what we have to live with.”
- JVL: “At best they are purely mercenary and at worst they are interested in a kind of feudalism…”
6. Fascism, Plutocracy, and the Historical Analogy
[26:22 – 40:11]
- JVL explains: Authoritarian regimes create incentives for monopolistic loyalty, not prosperity: “They don’t need prosperity… they need loyalty from the business class. And so one of the ways to get loyalty is to give away consolidation.”
- Both reflect on what it’s like watching former friends and colleagues in conservative circles willingly submit to authoritarianism, and how party structures once prevented the slide to extremism.
- JVL: “The root of the problem is the collapse of institutional power… once you allowed Republican voters to have the full say, then voters got to choose Donald Trump, and they really, really wanted it.” [34:00s]
- Mature societies rarely ‘rebuild from the ashes’; best case is muddling through.
7. Searching for Hope: Incompetence, Contradictions, and Long-Term Reforms
[40:49 – 48:34]
- Rushfield’s "Colonel Winter" theory: Authoritarians’ own incompetence could lead to failures that open political opportunities. “They will so deeply screw up everything they come into contact with…”
- JVL: The contradiction at the heart of the current coalition; Trump is not a Republican, and his voters won’t turn out for others—so how does the ‘dynasty’ sustain? Predicts “someone named Trump” will be the next nominee after Donald.
- Discussion of radical reforms: expanding the Supreme Court, adding new states—to fix the “age of minority rule” and reduce vulnerability to authoritarianism.
8. The Point of Comparison: The 1920s & ‘Witness’ by Whitaker Chambers
[55:23 – 60:14]
- Required reading: JVL recommends Witness by Whitaker Chambers, focusing on the contrast between the real-world trauma that created the 1920s and 1930s turn to authoritarianism and the current ‘decadent’ choice of authoritarianism absent crisis.
- “People chose fascism out of decadence. Things are basically as good as they’ve ever been… That incongruity might help spark your thinking…” [58:47]
9. Personal Reflections: Sanity, Meaning, and Sticking It Out
[52:54 – 55:23]
- Rushfield: “How do you stay sane during this?”
- JVL’s response: He doesn’t turn it off; devotes himself to his work and family, “because this is important. It isn’t politics as game…it’s real.”
- Both share appreciation and respect for the other’s work and platforms.
Memorable Quotes
- JVL: "Sure. In the long run, everyone's dead, we're all food for worms. But this is what Hungary looked like a decade and a half ago, right? This is… fascism." [03:55]
- JVL: “The fact that they are able … to carry out these threats in public shows how strong their position is. You don’t have to hide.” [05:14]
- JVL: "You either have to maximally capitulate or at some point you have to fight. … If you are Disney and you think this is the easy way, you’re fucking stupid. … You’re going to have to fight this eventually. You might as well fight it over Jimmy Kimmel right here when everybody’s watching it.” [08:28]
- JVL: “The root of the problem is that the American people are rotten. The American people wanted this. They voted for it. Donald Trump did not hide the football.” [14:41]
- JVL (on protest): “Do not surrender in advance and don’t surrender when they come to push you—make them fight for every inch of ground.” [18:03]
- Rushfield: “We’re a vassal state now…about 70% of [Hollywood output] funded by the tech world. That’s…what we have to live with, and my sense is those priorities are not very good.” [24:09]
- JVL: “Because Dynasty is the only other answer to this problem for the Republican Party.” [43:25]
- JVL: “I think the best case scenario is just that we all find a way to muddle through.” [49:17]
- JVL’s required reading: “Witness by Whitaker Chambers…because it provides contrasts. People chose fascism out of decadence…That incongruity might help spark your thinking.” [58:47]
Important Timestamps
- Jimmy Kimmel & Late Night TV Panic: [03:05 – 07:44]
- Out-in-the-Open Authoritarianism/FCC Pressure: [05:14 – 08:28]
- Hollywood’s Strange Silence: [09:49]
- Tech Industry’s Control over Hollywood: [10:48]
- Collapse of Dissent: [11:50 – 12:56]
- Why Resistance Is Hard (Mass Mobilization, Boycott): [18:03 – 20:14]
- Concentration of Oligarchic Power/Feudalism: [23:20 – 26:22]
- Why Party Structures Matter—Rise of Trump: [34:00s]
- Comparison to 1920s, ‘Witness’ Recommendation: [55:58 – 60:14]
Episode Tone & Final Thoughts
The conversation is urgent, bleak, but emotionally honest—a call not to await happy endings but to face reality, fight for every inch, and refuse to surrender in advance. Both hosts warn against passivity, wishful thinking, and letting the forces of authoritarianism consolidate without resistance. The episode concludes with a hope that meaning might someday be restored and with practical counsel to look to history for perspective—even if solutions remain elusive.
Required Reading (per JVL):
Witness by Whitaker Chambers – especially for its insight into why once-reasonable people can abet dangerous systems, and what’s different—and more chilling—about today’s willing embrace of authoritarianism.
Further Reading / Listening
- The Age of Acrimony (book recommended in passing by JVL)
- The Bulwark and The Ankler for ongoing commentary and analysis