The Bulwark Invades Canada (or Is It the Other Way Around?)

Summary

The Bulwark Invades Canada (or Is It the Other Way Around?)

Bulwark Takes – September 29, 2025

Host: The Bulwark Team (Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, Sam Stein)
Special Guest: Martin Wendell Jones
Recorded live in Toronto

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Episode Overview

In a high-energy, humor-laced live episode recorded in Toronto, the Bulwark crew—Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, and Sam Stein—connect with their Canadian audience for the first time outside the US. They riff on the state of US-Canada relations, analyze a dark and chaotic American political news cycle, dissect the Trump administration’s latest scandals, play Canadian trivia, and grapple with the role of media and public resistance in an era of democratic backsliding. The episode also features lighter games, audience Q&A, and reflections on hope and solidarity amid democratic crisis.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. US-Canada Relations & Audience Warmth

• Venue Atmosphere: Tim emphasizes the warmth and openness of the Canadian audience compared to the broader “elbows up” stance Canadians might have toward Americans post-2016.

• Bulwark’s Mission: The team sees themselves as stitching together the "small-l liberal alliance" between the two countries.

  "They know we're one of the good ones... trying to patch things up, trying to keep the liberal, small l, Liberal alliance alive."
  — Tim Miller (00:18)

• Canadian Audience Surprise: Sarah notes surprise at the size of their Canadian following, with their Toronto show’s first venue selling out in 24 hours, necessitating a second event.

2. News Rundown & The State of American Politics

The "Parade of Horribles" (08:59–29:50)

• Escalating Authoritarian Tactics: Indictments against James Comey, ICE targeting public officials, networks caving to White House pressure, and politicized DOJ actions signal a worsening climate.

  "This is about just like, I’m mad at these guys and now I have all the power and I’m going to just mess with people's livelihoods."
  — Sarah Longwell (17:25)

• Trump’s Targeting of 'Enemy' Elites: Focus on the Comey indictment as emblematic of intimidation tactics, with panelists noting that while it’s menacing, it’s also often “clownish and scary at the same time.”

  "These things are simultaneously scary and clownish. Right. At the same time.. This is unprecedented and against the rule of law... and also, like, they are big babies, they're extremely thin skinned and it isn't really working."
  — Tim Miller (18:20)

• Media & Culture War: Trump’s media dominance and “culture war” victories via corporate capitulation (notably the Jimmy Kimmel/FCC story), and the normalization of right-wing narratives by business elites.

  “There is a real lesson here, and it goes kind of unnoticed and maybe unremarked upon because we're just shoveling through the shit. But when there is a popular pushback, he has folded.”
  — Sam Stein (21:46)

• Impact on Institutions & Law Enforcement: Erosion of trust and mass departures within the FBI and DOJ create long-term risks beyond headline-grabbing prosecutions.

The "Worst News of the Month" Lightning Round (43:07–54:03)

• TikTok and Media Takeovers: Alarm over the right’s growing control over major media and digital platforms (e.g. MAGA-friendly billionaires acquiring TikTok), and the shift from a diverse news environment to a consolidated, algorithmically-driven ecosystem friendly to Trump.

  "He controlled a massive information stream. More importantly, he controlled the algorithm... And we are about to live in the world where Trump and all of his allies control all the information that the news receivers are getting. There is a reason that young are now leaning right... there is nothing scarier."
  — Sarah Longwell (50:33)

• Domestic Terror, Corruption & Cabinet Extremism: Stephen Miller's appointment to “combat domestic terrorism” (after labeling Democrats terrorist threats); administrative purges; overt intimidation and lawfare.

• RFK Jr. and “Quackery”: Firing of health officials and embracing anti-science rhetoric by RFK Jr., up to and including linking Tylenol to autism, stoking dangerous public panic and measles outbreaks.

3. Canadian Anthems & Trivia Segment (06:15–41:57)

• "O Canada" Performance: Tim gamely leads the anthem, demonstrating both camaraderie and good humor.

• Canadian Trivia: Hosted by Martin Wendell Jones, the team is quizzed on Canadian history, culture, and quirks—from beavers and “loonies” to football teams and the Bata Shoe Museum.

  • Notable Trivia:
    • Canada’s Confederation: 1867
    • The “loonie” is named for the loon bird on the coin
    • Toronto’s largest museum: shoes

• Canadian/American Stereotypes & Good-Natured Jokes: At several points, the group riffs on cultural differences (e.g., Americans’ ignorance of Canadian politics, Canadian “niceness”).

4. Political Game – “Who's the Most Pernicious Cabinet Member?” (59:39–71:16)

• Top Picks for Worst Trump Cabinet Member:

  • Tim: Switches allegiance from Pam Bondi to Kristi Noem due to DHS actions and general “pain being done in the country.”
  • Sarah: Ultimately selects J.D. Vance, the Vice President, as the most pernicious, riffing on his betrayal of principles and performative, “chronically online” persona.

    "Nobody has ever lowered that office more... J.D. Vance is a breath away from the presidency and he sucks so hard and is doing nothing but propping Trump up."
    — Sarah Longwell (69:48)

  • Sam: Stresses the danger of RFK Jr.'s anti-vaccine, anti-science influence.

• Extended Rant on J.D. Vance: Both Sarah and Tim express deep, personal distaste and alarm over Vance’s ambitions and character.

  "I've never felt more disdain from anyone in my life than J.D. Vance... nobody comes close."
  — Tim Miller (67:32)

5. Dream Canadian “Blunt Rotation” Draft (72:02–76:34)

A light-hearted “draft” game where the hosts choose their fantasy group for a weed-smoking session:

• Sarah’s picks: k.d. lang, Megan Follows, Margaret Atwood (winning over the crowd)
• Tim’s picks: Justin Bieber, Michael Cera, Mike Myers
• Sam’s picks: Seth Rogen, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Neil Young

6. Audience Q&A and Final Reflections (76:42–101:44)

• Cross-Border Paranoia: Canadian teacher Corin asks if she should take a burner phone crossing the US border—prompting a candid reflection on the darkness of even needing to consider such precautions.

  "We're in a fucking dark... place that people have to have the conversation... I can't tell you that that's not a legitimate worry... but it is a real thing people have to worry about coming to America now."
  — Tim Miller (95:11)

• Debate on Democratic Party Soul-Searching: Is public Democratic criticism productive or self-defeating? Tim insists on the need for honest intra-party debate, while Sarah calls for clarity of purpose and direction to move forward.

• Media Companies & Cultural Shifts: Discussion of why media companies capitulate to Trump—conclusion: it's about culture, not a “popular mandate.”

• Broader Political Realignment: Sarah warns (and hopes) that the US is experiencing a “backlash to the backlash,” encouraging active engagement rather than giving in to exhaustion.

7. Closing Remarks: Hope, Solidarity, Pushing Back (97:00–101:44)

• The Bulwark’s Origin & Mission: Sarah recounts the platform’s founding in response to the Trumpification of right-wing media, and the unexpected community it's built.

  "They are trying to exhaust us with the constant scandal, the constant corruption, the constant offense... But of course we can do something about it... When you push back, they cave."
  — Sarah Longwell (100:19)

• Don’t Give In to Exhaustion or Fear: The show closes with an optimistic call to resist authoritarian fatigue, calling Trump and Musk “weak men” who succeed if people surrender to fear and weariness.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Do you know all the words to the US Anthem?"
  — Sam Stein (08:19), flipping the ‘anthem’ joke on Tim after the Canadian national anthem
• "I thought all Canadians were nice."
  — Sarah Longwell (02:46), upon encountering a skeptical Canadian VIP
• "The sexual matador."
  — Katie Miller's description of Stephen Miller (44:40 onwards), leading to much hilarity and mockery
• "Sometimes these things are simultaneously scary and clownish."
  — Tim Miller (18:20), on the dual nature of the Trump era
• "Every time they make a paper straw, a Republican gets born."
  — Sarah Longwell (80:22), skewering the “culture war”
• "Don't go to Medieval Times."
  — Tim Miller (101:05), in a parting, tongue-in-cheek warning

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:00 — Introduction & reflections on Toronto live audience
• 08:59 — News rundown: Editorials calling for violence, Trump nuttery, Comey
• 16:05 — DOJ/FBI politicization, lawfare, impact on institutions
• 21:45 — Kimmel, cable news, and the possibility of public pushback
• 29:50 — Martin Wendell Jones hosts Canadian Trivia
• 43:07 — Worst “Parade of Horribles” news/game segment
• 50:33 — Tech/media consolidation and the MAGA-aligned media landscape
• 59:39 — “Most Pernicious Cabinet Member” game
• 69:48 — Deep dive roast of J.D. Vance
• 72:02 — Dream Canadian blunt rotation game
• 76:42 — Audience Q&A (including border paranoia, Canadian/US politics, media companies, Democratic Party)
• 97:00 — “Why The Bulwark?” Sarah’s closing remarks on hope and resistance
• 101:44 — Episode close

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Takeaways for Non-Listeners

• The Bulwark remains a sharp, fast-talking, sometimes profane safe haven for those alarmed by democratic decay and media capitulation in Trumpian America.
• The episode combines incisive political analysis with irreverent, humor-driven games that both skewer serious subjects and bond the Bulwark with its (surprisingly large!) Canadian audience.
• Despite the darkness of the hour, the hosts insist on hope, pushing back, and solidarity—in politics, in media, and across borders.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everybody. Tim Miller from the Bulwark here. We were live in Toronto. That's how you say it. Toronto, Canada on Friday night. It was rowdy, it was fun and it was great. The people of Canada obviously have given a pretty skeptical glance to us Americans these days. Their elbows up for the Americans, as they say, ready, ready for a little brawl. And wasn't true for us. Arms open for the Bulwark. They know we're one of the good ones. We're the ones trying to patch things up, you know, trying to keep the liberal, small l Liberal alliance alive between our two great countries. And it was a delight to be there. We discussed some about the Canada U.S. relationship, of course. We discussed some of the big news. The Jim Comey indictment had happened before we went on and you know, a bunch of the other parade of horribles we've had over the last few weeks because it was a Friday night. We also did some games, was a rendition of the national anthem you might enjoy. We did some Canadian trivia.

[B]

I won.

[A]

There's some jokes, there's some laughs, jovial. The Canadians aren't as humorless, as beady eyed as you may have heard. They're actually quite wonderful and couldn't have enjoyed it more. And so I hope that we'll have a chance to get back there soon. I was there with my colleague Sarah Longwell. Stick around for her, create a core at the end of the event. As well as Sam Stein who has been welcomed into the bosom of Canada even though he teased them a little bit, causing some consternation earlier this year. So Sam Stein, Sarah Longwell, me, live in Canada covering the news, having some fun. It's going to be an enjoyable watch. Stick around for that. We'll be coming to a city near you soon. Go to theborg.comevents to see what our schedule is and we'll talk to you later.

[C]

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

[A]

Hello.

[C]

Hi. Hey, how are you, Canada? Amazing, guys. Thank you for being here. We're so excited to be here. So is this woman wearing a Gavin Newsom shirt right in the front row just to troll me. Just to troll me. Where's jbl? Where is jbl? You know, it's not a long story actually. JBL was too chicken shit to cross the border because he genuinely thinks that they're not gonna let a couple of podcasters back into the United States.

[A]

And.

[C]

Look, I understand guys. Shit is weird and bad, okay? Somebody told me in that we did like a little VIP thing in the beginning and so people were coming up and taking pictures. And one woman was like, yeah, you're not rooted in reality, Sarah. You're just your optimism, whatever. And I was like, nice to meet you, ma'. Am. I thought all Canadians were nice. No, but I get it. Sometimes I can be more optimistic than people. People like. But JVL thinks that we still, we no longer have freedom of movement, which I think is like bleaker than we need to be at the moment. I don't think we have to be that bad. But he is sad that he's not actually. I'm lying. He's not sad. People he takes. So I do a lot of live shows with JVL and before a show he takes two Xanax. And so at live shows he's barely himself and he lets people touch him and he gets kind of sweaty and glassy eyed. So. Yeah, but it's okay because we have Sam Stein with us tonight. I think it's funny you guys are all clapping because as best I understand, all that Sam has done is insult Canada and the Mounties and I think you guys should give them a hard time. But it is his first live show actually. So you love Sam. Yeah. Okay. Okay, that's fine. People have their choices. I just had to stand next to Tim while all of you fanned out over him. That was cool. Thank you. Thank you. I'm not. Whatever. I'm not thirsty, I'm not fishing. I'm just saying there's a whole thing with Tim. Here's the thing I want to say just before we get started, which is this is our first show not in the United States. And yeah, it's cool. And I gotta say, we didn't even know how many Canadian fans we had. We were like, well, look, we should go to Canada because we're all gonna need to live there someday and we should scope it out. We should just check in and see what's happening. And so we were like, well, we'll get like, you know, 450 person venue. It'll be great. And we put it online. We're gonna go sells out in 24 hours. And we were like, oh no. Oh no. And so we had to add a second show. So tomorrow another like 350 people are coming for a Q and A brunch thing that we added just because we didn't want to leave any Canadian behind. Because we need you guys. We need you guys. So I just wanted to thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for supporting the Bulwark. Thank you for not giving up on The United States. We know. Oh, I'm sorry. Have you given up? Okay, okay, okay. We'll talk about it. We'll talk. It's all right. Here's the thing, though. Just to kick it off, we do have a special treatment, a special performance. And so I would like to invite to the stage to sing the Canadian national anthem, Tim Miller. Yeah.

[A]

What up? Stand up. Stand up. Stand up. When the Quebec Nordiques moved to Colorado, my. My dad got us season tickets for a couple years. So I think I've got this right. We're going from memory. Okay. All right, you ready? I might need you to help me a little bit. 3, 2, 1. O Canada our home and native land True patriot love in all thy son's command with glowing hearts we see thee rise A true north strong and free from far and wide O Canada, we stand on guard for thee God sweep our land Glorious and free O Canada, we stand on guard for thee O Canada, we stand on guard for thee all right, you Donald Trump. It's showtime. I'm gonna put on my Canadian tuxedo. I'll be right back.

[C]

Guys, it's Sam Stein. Hey, did you see we all wore our Canadian tuxedos? Yeah. Sam, you look great.

[B]

I'm sorry for not being jvl. Are we doing the US Anthem now or. No.

[C]

Do you know all the words to the US Anthem?

[B]

I do. I'm not going to sing it, though.

[C]

I have a question that maybe somebody could answer while Tim's sitting down. Why is it that you guys know so much about our politics when the average American.

[A]

Because we are the alpha.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is that why?

[B]

Don't say that. It's an odd note to start on, Tim. All right, I'm gonna be the emcee tonight. These two are gonna do a lot of the talking.

[A]

Thank God.

[B]

And then towards the end, we're gonna do some questions. But there's a lot going on in the news. It's a little dark before we even got here. In between boarding the plane and arriving here, a few things happen. I'm just going to go through them. These are real things that happen. The craziest one was a prominent conservative site today published in editorial. I don't know if you guys read the Daily Caller. Probably not, but published in editorial explicitly calling for violence. Did you see that one?

[A]

Yeah, I did.

[B]

Okay. That was dark.

[C]

Do you know him? Do you know Jeff Ingersoll? I do.

[A]

Oh, really?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No. What does he look like? What's his physiognomy?

[B]

Hold on. I'm going to get through some other ones. There was a measles outbreak in Arizona and Utah. Not good. ICE detained a superintendent of Iowa's largest public school district, Epstein. Documents came out showing a potential meeting with Peter Thiel, Steve Bannon, and the possibility that Elon Musk visited Epstein Island. And then I'm just going to go through three Trump ones because they're so good. Trump demanded an immediate investigation into the un. Into the UN Escalator situation. Are you an escalator truth? Tilton was actually responsible for that one.

[A]

Subway man in the escalator.

[B]

This is a good one. Donald Trump put up a post today telling pregnant women not to take Tylenol for their kids and saying, don't get the hepatitis B shot until you're 12. Not just against medical advice. He also misspelled hepatitis. And this one just went under the radar, but it was kind of random. He called for the declassification of the records surrounding Amelia Earhart. Not sure why that.

[C]

That's interesting. Those are not the records I want disclassified.

[B]

I know. Wrong records, Donald.

[A]

Was Amelia lesbian? Was she one of yours?

[C]

I don't think so. I think she was married to a man. But like most lesbian, like you, you think that because she did a great thing.

[B]

Well played. All right. We joke.

[A]

Lindbergh, not one of ours, just in case you're wondering.

[B]

So we joke. We try to have fun with the headlines and. And you need to, because you can't get through the day without it. But serious stuff is obviously happening. The big stuff, of course, has to do with James Comey and what's going on with the charges against him. Obviously, I've talked to a lot of people, like, this is a Rubicon moment. And I gotta be honest, I feel like we crossed the Rubicon prior to this moment. I don't know. But is it a Rubicon?

[A]

A lot of Rubicon.

[B]

I've crossed that Rubicon about 12 times in the past three months. But, Sarah, is this, like, a definitionally different moment than prior Trump scandals?

[C]

I'm not sure that I think it's that different. I mean, I think it's consistent. And this is one of the things about Trump that, you know, there's a lot of things he's doing that people think, well, I didn't think he was going to do that, but this is the kind of thing we were all like, no, he told us he was going to do this, like, by name. We knew he was going to go after people like James Comey. I think what's interesting about the Comey thing is that Trump does have kind of a reptilian sense for who doesn't have a constituency. Like he miscalculated with Jimmy Kimmel. Right. Because a lot of people were like, wait, I love that guy. No, I don't watch Late Night anymore, but I see him on the Internet and I like him. Whereas James Comey. Because Bolton. Huh? Bolton. Right. He rated Bolton.

[B]

Everyone loves John Bolton.

[C]

Yes, he does. He tends to pick. Now, I'll just. I'll admit I like James Comey. His kid went. Played basketball at Kenyon.

[A]

I do, too.

[C]

Yeah, he's a nice. He's a nice guy. Guys, I'm sorry.

[A]

Why don't. I did not like him.

[C]

No.

[A]

I had to interview him for the podcast. I was like, I don't want to interview James Comey. And the producer's like, why? And I was like, because I have to be mean to him. And I just. I don't want to be mean to him. You know, like, poor guy. He's like a little puppy. Tried his best.

[B]

He's like 6, 8.

[A]

He made a bad mistake. He is like a baby giraffe. You're right. He's like a baby giraffe, you know?

[C]

Anyway, yeah, so he's not a bad guy, but because I'm not sure there is any single human being that you could point to to say maybe they had a role in helping to elect Donald Trump. He doesn't have a lot of friends on the left, and because he's been very anti Trump since the moment he left the FBI or was fired by the FBI. If you remember, James Comey was the first thing that Trump did that everybody went like, wait a minute. That's not a thing that happens in America. You don't just fire the FBI director out of nowhere. It seems so quaint and innocent, but that was a big deal. But the right doesn't like him either. And so he doesn't have, like, a Jimmy Kimmel army to come rescue him, and Trump knows it. So I'm just sorry, but you all have to like James Comey now, and you all have to defend him.

[A]

I'm in the market for a Shepard Fairey style James Comey poster for the house. Yeah. No, man. And it's funny when you think about that. I remember I was. When Trump fired Comey, the first time I was at, like, a work, you know, happy hour or whatever, and, like, people's phones started going off and everybody was like, oh, fuck. Like, this is. This is bad. And it's like, that was bad. But. And he replaced him with Chris Ray, who's like, a totally normal, competent person that you would appropriately want to have in front of at the head of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. And, like, here we are now, and it's like Kash Patel is running it. It's like a January 6th children's book author that looks like he should be playing Grand Theft Auto, like, in a fucking crack apartment in Miami is, like, running the FBI now. So that's not great. And so, like, the gap between that. It's hard for you to wrap your head. Like, the gap between the first term type of corruption and what he was doing and what he's doing now is, like, really, really wide. And the danger is wide for that degree. The other thing about this is the other thing that's happened in the interim was that the Merrick Garland DOJ went after Trump and Peter Navarro and a couple of others, Hunter Biden. But yeah, yeah, on the right, they have that fig leaf. You see them saying that this isn't a Rubicon moment. Like, Peter Navarro got arrested by the Trump or indicted by the DOJ during the Biden era. Well, Peter Navarro did crimes. So there is the turnabout is fair play element to this. But. But the thing is that Trump has been out there being like, no, arrest James Comey because he's a bad guy. He's worse than Democrats, He's a political foe. And so he's being very overt about it. And he goes so far as to fire somebody that he appointed because he wouldn't prosecute Comey to replace him with this woman who has no prosecution experience, who would. And so in that sense, it really is like a category difference from the other side.

[B]

It's not just that she has no prosecution experience. She was his literal lawyer. Right. I mean, that. And I think that gets to something that's. That's troubling. More for me about this is that, you know, when he fired Comey the first time and he replaced him with Ray, you know, he at least had some sort of confidence that there were people in the FBI and DOJ who had at least, you know, hold back the worst impulses. And in fact, Jeff Sessions, you know, recused himself, and we had the whole special.

[A]

Jeez.

[C]

Jeez.

[A]

Jeff Sessions.

[B]

Jeff Sessions, my hero. We are in a dark spot.

[A]

If only we had Sessions.

[B]

Now we're. Now we have, like, Pam Bondi, and you're like, well, that's. She's not gonna do anything about this. And obviously, Kash Patel's not gonna do anything about this. And Lindsey Halligan is filing these insane indictments, which is. I don't know if you guys saw the indictment. It was two pages. It was ridiculous.

[A]

There were two twos.

[B]

There were two twos, two second charges. One of the charges was thrown out. But you mentioned something else that actually I think is an important part here, which is Trump's basically live tweeting all of this. And that's both bad, but also, in a way could be the undoing of the prosecution. Right? You can't. Well, you'd like to think. You can't have a president weighing in on every twist and turn and essentially ruining the case for the prosecution. Right?

[C]

Yeah. But that is not. Sometimes we tend to think about these in terms of normal politics. Okay, okay. And like, normal James Comey is going to go to jail. That's not what he wants. He just wants to fuck with Comey's life. Right. This is about. This is about just like, I'm mad at these guys and now I have all the power and I'm going to just mess with people's livelihoods.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And so he's not. It doesn't matter to him if there's a conviction. It matters to him if they're raked over the coals, made to be embarrassed having their livelihood because people don't even. I think sometimes it went under the radar. Comey got audited like they were in back in the first term. Like, they did go after some of these guys just to mess with them. And like, that's all this is. It's an. Trump felt embarrassed by having to go to those, go up in front of judges. And now he wants to do it to these.

[B]

What did Kinzinger tell you is intimidation? Is that what he said?

[A]

Yeah, but I like talking to Adam about this stuff because it's hard to, like, you know, it's hard to explain that, like, at the same, like these things are simultaneously scary and clownish. Right. Like, at the same time, this is unprecedented and again, against the rule of law and against the democratic system. And like, we should be really upset about it. And also, like, they are big babies, they're extremely thin skinned and it isn't really working. Right. Like, it hasn't actually worked yet. And. And so you need to kind of live in that gray area and live in those realities and be both outraged about it, but also mock them. I mean, yeah, they're trying to fuck with James Comey's life. I'm actually more offended by what they're doing to his daughter. They fired his daughter from the government for no reason. She did nothing. All she did was go and put sex predators behind jail, behind bars. So you'd think that the QAnon crowd would be for that. And she's the only one out there getting convictions of sex criminals. She gets fired because her last name's Comey. It's fucking outrageous. But at the same time, like, I don't know, man, like, it isn't. It's not Putin, right? I mean, I don't think Jim Comey is shaking in his boots over there. Like, none of these guys are going to jail yet. They gotta go to grand juries and they've got like the fucking Keystone Cops filing these indictments. And there's, there is something that, like, you shouldn't let the, like, you can both be outraged and mock them at the same time.

[B]

I suppose, I suppose. But I'm not willing to concede that we can. I mean, I don't think you're saying we can live with this, but I think it's fucking bad. Like, it's bad that they're doing this. I think Comey will have the resources to defend himself, sure. But it is an intimidation tactic. And basically it sends a message to anyone else who is willing to push back against Trump, don't do it. And you have. It doesn't take much to imagine a scenario down the line, closer to the midterm elections, where the target isn't James Comey, but it's some trumped up bullshit charge against a Democrat on the ballot somewhere that they don't want to win and they just do this.

[C]

I think that's right. I do think that's right. Here's the thing that, though. And look, there's not that much to be hopeful about, but I do.

[B]

This seems to be a reoccurring theme here.

[C]

I do think that Comey is one of the. It's an emotional decision by Trump, but I think it's a bad one because James Comey is going to have great lawyers. He's. Trump's not going to get him. Comey is going to be defiant. He already is being defiant.

[A]

He's quoting his daughter.

[C]

And here's the thing is right now, one of the reasons that in America things are so terrible and they're so different from the first go round is not just who's in the administration, but how our institutions are responding to it, Right? So when you watch everybody cave that, where people can be intimidated, if you're abc, you're a big company and you just Pay them off. You're like, yeah, yeah, no, sorry, yeah, no, we shouldn't have used the word rape. We should have said sexual assault. Our bad. We'll pay you $16 million for it. That is demoralizing. Watching James Comey fight and win, I think is going to be good ultimately.

[B]

Let's pick up on that because you referenced Kimmel. And today, two other news stories. Sinclair and Nuckstar both announced that they were going to put Kimmel back on.

[A]

They got cucked.

[B]

Cucks. Cable cucks. Yes.

[A]

Sinclair got cucked.

[B]

There's something. I think there's a real lesson here, and it goes kind of unnoticed and maybe unremarked upon because we're just shoveling through the shit. But when there is a popular pushback, he has folded. And there are other cases. I mean, look, we'll see what happens with Chicago. But the military was supposed to be in Chicago by now. They are not. Right. At least. I don't know. I'm not aware. There's also something that went very under the radar today. Video of this DHS agent. Did you see this one slam some woman, this poor mother or wife, just trying to figure out what's going on with her husband who was detained. This guy slammed her to the ground for the first time I can remember. DHS was like, oops, we're sorry. And that's because there's a popular outcry against it. And it does give you a modicum of hope, a little tiny parcel of hope that maybe that's the way to get past this. No.

[C]

So it's not.

[B]

Tim's not convinced.

[A]

No. I'm just fucking with you. Yeah. No. Yes. I mean, yes. El Salvador is the other example. Right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There are supposed to be hundreds of people in El Salvador prison, and there's zero right now from America, at least. And that was because of legal pushback, political pushback, you know, so, like, he can be slowed. I guess that's what I'm saying. That's what I liked about the kin. Like, Kinzinger says he gets us all the time because I think he's like, on the, you know, who might get sent to El Salvador scale. Like, Kinzinger is, like, a little bit in front of me. So I'm always kind of like.

[B]

I'm like, he got a pardon, man. You did not. You're a little bit in front of him.

[A]

You're still hanging. Like, I feel like I'm good. If you disappear, I'm gonna start looking at Uruguay. But, you know. Right. Like, his point Is like, no, fuck these guys. Like, bring it. Like, let's actually see it. I mean, like, there are people that have legitimate reasons to be concerned, obviously. Like migrants and people who aren't traveling to our country anymore. Like, you people and, you know, trans folks. Just come to New Orleans. All right? Nobody, nowhere else. Okay. Carve us out. It's French. There are a lot of Acadians down there.

[D]

The.

[A]

So, like, that part, like, is, you know, like, there are a lot of regular folks that are gonna get fucked. But I do think that, like, the targeting of political elites has been pretty ham handed so far. I think it sucks for James Comey and it sucks for people that work in the government big time. But, like, the political prisoners are going down. I don't know, let's fucking see it, I guess.

[B]

Or are you saying that they should be arresting the people who stole the election away from Trump?

[A]

I was saying that you noticed none of them have gotten in diamonds.

[C]

Oh, I was watching you in the Uber on the way here and I was saying to Sam, I was like, Tim's making a good point. This is actually a good point.

[A]

Yeah, that's interesting. I know. It's the biggest crime in history. They stole the 2020 election from our great president.

[C]

I know I can't.

[A]

And they now have the DOJ and the FBI director.

[B]

And my point to Sarah was, why are you giving Trump ideas?

[A]

Well, there's nobody to arrest. It wasn't stolen. Sam, what's the idea?

[B]

Yeah, fair enough. But this is going to escalate, right? I mean, we just. I don't. There's no. First of all, Trump has said Bolton's.

[A]

Getting indicted any day, for starters. For sure.

[B]

Where does this go, Sarah? Like, what's where? The lawfare stuff.

[C]

I mean, he's going to keep doing it, although I do think, like, he's picked a couple of ones where the public support might not be there immediately, but where the cases are deeply weak.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And so, I mean, I love.

[A]

James has two mortgages. It's like, that's what you're going for. It's like big scary. You know, Victor Orban over here is going after Tish James over her also.

[C]

She didn't do it.

[B]

She didn't do it.

[C]

She's innocent of it. And so, like, these guys are going to get off and they.

[B]

Bill, family did do it. The guy who accused her, his own family member did the same exact crime.

[C]

That's right. And so to me, we have got to normalize the pushing back and Trump losing because that is where then other people will find their spines.

[A]

And that's why we're here in Canada, unlike jbl. Like, I'm gonna. If anybody. If one of you has one of those attitude tees about Fuck Trump, I might wear that going back through customs in Philly or wherever I'm going. Charlotte.

[C]

Tim's like, if I get held up at customs, I will be so much more famous. I am daring them to come get me.

[A]

I dare you to hold me up. I've got a lot of lawyer friends. Yeah, you put me in one of those rooms.

[B]

Just got put on YouTube. Monetize it.

[C]

The Bulwark, Live from the border.

[B]

I want to close out this section by talking sort of what Tim was getting at, which is like, there are things that matter more materially, I think, than Comey. The ICE raids, I think, is a great example. And I was talking to a friend of mine. He follows his stuff. He works with immigrant committees in la. We were talking about Comey. He was like, look, I know it matters deeply, but, like, the people who I work with, they don't know who the hell James Comey is, but they are sure as hell scared of the fact that their communities have people in masks raiding their stores, going into their communities, arresting people, detaining people. Like, that's the stuff that they pay attention to. So I do wonder, like, from a political. Just strictly political standpoint, like, does this matter, the Comey stuff? Do Democrats take this and run with it? Or is it just something that we care about because we're super hyper, you know, into the news?

[C]

So it matters to me in this sort of weird layer of talkers. So the thing about right now, watching a bunch of sort of center right, or not even center right, but, like, people who want to be maga, but they're also watching it being like, ooh, I have a law degree. This is no good. You can't. You shouldn't. Really shouldn't do this. I do think the more of these that pile up, like, it starts to erode people's ability who care about their credibility, right? And this is why. Look, it's a. It's a sick way to think about things or a sick way to talk about things, but it is a real phenomenon. There was a reason that after Charlie Kirk was murdered, they rushed to say this was the left, and it was because they wanted a narrative dominant position in a way to go on offense, right? Because they've been on the back foot. They're on the back foot on the economy. They've been on the back foot on Epstein. And so they are trying to drive media cycles so that they feel like they have something they can be morally outraged about. And so when this stuff happens and those people are like, actually this is indefensible, it chips away over time at sort of the respectable rights ability to defend these things.

[A]

I hope that's right. I don't know if that's true though. I've got a different answer. I think, I don't think it really matters at all politically. I think that it does matter substantively, not just about the legal part, but like again, like Comey's son in law left. Like there's all these like people you don't know, you know, that are leaving the administration. Right.

[B]

Good or bad. Yeah, I'm torn on that one.

[A]

Yeah. And like in the FBI, you're seeing lots of people leaving. And that's true at doj. And I think like these types of things are like, you fucking fire somebody like just like with. Under no pretense other than you want to do a political prosecution on your opponent, I think I assume has other people who are working in the Department of Justice being like, I don't know, some lawsuits. I think I could get a few. Like I could get some more money at the, in the private sector. Right. Like, you know, and so I think that that has some real potential medium tail negative effects that are kind of hard to predict, particularly on the law enforcement side. So I think that is the significance. I don't really think that the Jim Comey thing will have a lot of deep political significance, unfortunately. I would like for it to.

[B]

Sure. All right, we're going to switch tone and focus a little bit.

[A]

Oh, great.

[B]

Back a couple months ago, I did a YouTube video with this man who's about to come on and we were talking about Canadian tariffs. And I may have laughed a little bit too much about the situation and my laugh may have come off as dismissive. And I want to just say I'm deeply sorry and I love you. Underlying this whole thing was this idea that we don't know jack shit about your country and we're embarrassed about it. So we're going to invite that same man, Bulwark editor, adopted son of Canada, Martin Wendell Jones, to come on stage and he's going to quiz us on Canadian trivia. So welcome Martin Wendell Jones.

[D]

Thank you, Sam.

[A]

Okay, getting very competitive.

[D]

Real quick before we start, we've just heard a lot about politics. I want to say something very briefly about history, if you'll humor me. I'M not only a citizen of the United States and permanent resident of Canada. I'm also a Dutch citizen. My grandfather, my Opa, fought in the Dutch resistance during World War II. He was an arsonist. A cheer for the arson party. It's good. He was an arsonist. He specialized in setting fire to Nazi collaborators outbuildings.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[D]

He was questioned by the Gestapo. And when his home was liberated, who was it? Who did it? Canadian soldiers. So it is an honor to me personally to be able to permanently live in a country that has a history of fighting fascism in a very literal way. So with that, let's learn a little bit more about this great country. And see, I just.

[A]

I kind of. I'm going to have to see the facts on that. I'm pretty sure it was the Yankees that saved all of Europe. But we'll just.

[B]

Finally, Tim's less popular in Canada than me.

[D]

You see what I have to deal with here. That's right. This is a game called you Ottawa. I'm going to ask you a series of questions about Canada. You can all collaborate on your answers. No pressure.

[A]

I thought it was a competition.

[C]

It's a competition. Can we ask the audience? No, no.

[D]

There are some questions you are not going to want to ask the audience. We'll see why in just a few minutes. So we'll keep this really simple. We'll just get started here. Everyone knows America became a country in 1776. What year did Canada officially be become a country? Please don't let me down.

[B]

1815.

[C]

1935.

[A]

You're up.

[B]

17.

[D]

Okay, the answer is 1867.

[B]

Wow, that's really late.

[A]

So as a quick follow up, when price is right style 100.

[D]

As a quick follow up, of course, we have Independence Day day in the United States. In Canada, we have Canada Day. What month is Canada Day?

[B]

Wait, hold on. Are you talking Canada Day or civic holiday?

[D]

Sam is asking this because he sees my time off requests.

[A]

Canada Day.

[D]

We are talking about Canada Day.

[B]

July.

[D]

Very good, Sam.

[A]

I was going to say June. I was in the right ballpark.

[B]

Price is right rules, bitch.

[A]

1, 1, 0.

[D]

What is the national animal of Canada?

[A]

Beaver.

[B]

Beaver.

[C]

No, no. That was supposed to be mine.

[B]

That was supposed to be yours. It is yours.

[A]

We'll give it to you. 111.

[D]

So the $1 coin here in Canada is called a. But why is it called a loonie?

[A]

Because of your beady little eyes.

[C]

Louie.

[A]

Looney.

[D]

Looney.

[C]

Oh, a loony.

[D]

Why is the $1 coin called a loony?

[C]

Looney Tunes.

[B]

Why The.

[A]

Would I know this?

[B]

Am I gonna look stupid if I. Why? I don't know.

[D]

It has a loon on it. The actual bird. Something.

[A]

What is a loon?

[B]

Why is the dime called a dime? I don't know.

[D]

So bonus question. What is a $2 coin called?

[C]

A toonie.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Did you know that or did you guess that?

[C]

You know. I knew there was a word toonie and it made sense in context.

[D]

What a great country. The United States and Canada share a lot of holidays. What month is Canadian Thanksgiving?

[B]

November.

[A]

No. Canadian Thanksgiving is in October.

[B]

I was one month off. You guys booed that. Jeez. Come on. Fair enough.

[A]

Who is the Canadian Pocahontas? Do you guys have one of those? Canadian Thanksgiving.

[C]

Yeah. Like what's the Thanksgiving story here?

[A]

It's just harvest.

[C]

Did you.

[A]

It's not related to the native.

[D]

Moving on. Excuse me.

[A]

It's kind of a touchy subject here right now. Actually. I don't think we should be bringing up the native. Anyway.

[C]

Moving on. Moving on. Moving on.

[D]

Canada is officially a bilingual country.

[A]

French.

[D]

What. What percentage of the overall Canadian population is fluent in both English and French?

[A]

I know that you have a dumb rule that your prime minister has to be able to speak both Canadian and French. Which is silly. Canadian and French. And that's a. That's a perfect slip. Because it should be English. Just embrace the English. I don't know. Probably. What? 30%.

[B]

I'm going to go higher. I'm going to go with 60.

[C]

I'm going to go. I think it's. I think it's 18%.

[A]

Hey.

[D]

That's correct.

[B]

I thought higher of you people. I thought higher of you people. My mistake.

[C]

I looked up Canadian facts right before we went on. That's how I knew about the Beavers.

[D]

Here's a Canadian fact for you. If you walk into a Tim Hortons and you order one medium regular coffee and one medium double double. What have you ordered?

[A]

It's kind of like a sausage and cheese biscuit.

[B]

They got good donuts there. Is it donuts?

[C]

Do you smash two donuts together here?

[B]

Is that a thing?

[C]

That sounds good.

[A]

The double double.

[B]

That sounds amazing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Sounds like something we'd eat in America. Actually.

[D]

Regular coffee is one cream and one sugar. And a double. Double is two creams and two sugars.

[B]

I think I got that one.

[D]

Name one CFL football team.

[A]

The Saskatchewan.

[B]

The Calgary. The Calgary.

[A]

There's a Road Runners.

[C]

Wait. Is this. Is this. Is this soccer or football?

[A]

Football.

[B]

Which one did Fluty play?

[C]

Right?

[A]

I know.

[C]

But is it the one you kick or the one you throw?

[B]

Throw.

[A]

American football. It's American football.

[B]

The Calgary Flames.

[A]

Saskatchewan.

[B]

No, I'm kidding. I know that's hockey. Cheese.

[A]

Saskatchewan something.

[C]

Are there any women's teams?

[D]

Would you like to know the teams?

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[D]

The teams are the Hamilton Tiger Cats, the Montreal Alouettes, the Ottawa Red Blacks, the Toronto Argonauts.

[A]

Oh, fuck. I should have had the Argonauts shout.

[D]

Out to my wife's Uncle Gordon who played for them.

[A]

Shout out.

[D]

BC Lions, The Calgary Stan Peters, the Edmonton Elks, the Saskatchewan Rough Riders and the Winnebago Road Runners.

[A]

Rupture. I was close.

[B]

Which one? Which one was Fluteon? Which one was Fluteon?

[D]

All right, here's one that I think Tim specifically will love. Which of the following movies did not premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival? Here are the four movies. The Princess Bride, Boogie Nights, the Shawshank Redemption, or Black Swan.

[A]

I'd say Shawshank, probably.

[B]

I would have gotten Shawshank too, but that's so random. Why is that? Who would know that?

[A]

Black Swan would definitely have been here.

[B]

Feels like Boogie Nights would be here too. I don't know.

[D]

All of these films premiered at tip except Black Swan, which premiered at the Venice Film Festival.

[A]

All right, weird question. The crowd didn't even know that.

[B]

Yeah, no.

[D]

Here's a question that everyone here is definitely going to know. In July 1989, Nirvana served as the opening act at a show in Madison, Wisconsin, for what? Legendary tragic rehab. Yeah.

[A]

I feel like I have a commanding lead at this point, but let's keep going.

[D]

Before it entered bankruptcy protection earlier this year, the Hudson's Bay Company was. Was known as the oldest continuously operating corporation in North America. In what century was it founded?

[A]

The 17th?

[C]

The 18th?

[B]

The 19th?

[D]

The 17th?

[B]

Ah, damn.

[C]

You just picked the earliest century.

[B]

What the hell is going on with Tim?

[D]

I have a sports question.

[A]

All right.

[D]

What percentage of active roster NHL players for the 2024, 2025 season were from Canada?

[A]

Probably like 57, 40.

[C]

I don't know.

[D]

41%. 41%. Good job.

[A]

Yeah, we got all the Ruskis in there.

[B]

Yeah, I was going to say the Finns. The Russians.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Which Canadian writer described in the award citation as a master of the short story won the Nobel Prize in literature in 2013?

[C]

Margaret Atwood.

[D]

No.

[A]

Oh, is George Saunders from Canada? No. Is he one of yours?

[C]

Lucy Maud Montgomery.

[D]

Alice Monroe.

[C]

Oh, that's a good one.

[A]

Never heard of her.

[D]

She is wonderful.

[A]

Two more.

[B]

Two more. How many more do you got there?

[A]

This is like I Got a few.

[D]

Toronto is home to the largest museum in the world. Dedicated to what?

[B]

Shoes.

[D]

That's right. Wow, Sam.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

That was a tough one.

[D]

The Bata Shoe Museum's permanent collection contains over 13,000 shoes. And some of them are as old as 4,500 years.

[A]

W. Cool. Pretty good. We can see why such a big tourist destination.

[B]

Last one. Choose your best.

[D]

Okay. No, we're gonna jump down here. Okay. What did Trump accuse Canada of doing to the White house during a 2018.

[B]

Call with Trudeau burning it?

[D]

That's correct.

[C]

It was the British, though.

[B]

I know Trump's not the brightest guy.

[D]

Quick follow up. Who won the War of 1812? I'm just kidding.

[C]

Don't answer that.

[A]

Don't answer that.

[D]

Do not answer that.

[B]

Ladies and gentlemen, Martin. When. Oh, one more, one more.

[D]

Okay, one last question.

[A]

Alex Trebek.

[D]

Toronto are heading to the playoffs. They last won the World Series.

[B]

1993.

[D]

1993.

[C]

I got it. I got it.

[A]

Joe Carter. Joe Carter. Game six. Mitch Williams.

[D]

Well, congratulations, everybody.

[B]

Ladies and gentlemen, Martin Wendell Jones.

[C]

Good job.

[A]

Who can name more 1993 Toronto Blue Jays.

[B]

I don't want to do that anymore.

[A]

Just talk around. Just sit around naming 1990 sports figures. That's for later night.

[B]

All right.

[C]

That is the most I've ever heard Martin talk. He's funny, man.

[B]

He's hilarious. All right, all right.

[A]

I'm feeling pretty good after that victory.

[B]

I don't know if I need another. We're going back to the news. We're going to do a little bit of kind of a game type thing here. I picked 10 actual news items that happened in the past month, all of which are varying degrees of horrible. And I've asked. They know these items. I'm asking them to give me what they think are the worst. And you guys can tell us if we. If you. If we got it right or not, but I'm going to read them out loud, so bear with me for a second. Number one, Tom Homan took a $50,000 bribe delivered in a kava bag.

[A]

We got a couple of presents from the audience, and I love presents. So in the future, if you're.

[B]

If you want to come to the.

[A]

Matinee show tomorrow, I'll accept more presents. Nobody offered me a single fucking dollar, though. Like, there's. I'll take a cash.

[C]

Somebody gave us gummies, though. And I love that lady there.

[B]

She is. Your hero. I love you. Thank you. All right, two, Trump, we talked about this. One, Trump fired a U.S. attorney, stalled his own lawyer to bring charges against James Comey. Don't need to linger on that one. 3. The FCC blatantly pressured a major network to throw a comedian off the air. 4. RFK Jr. Decided to host a press conference saying tylenol causes autism. 5. RFK fired the CDC director because she wouldn't preemptively sign off on his vaccine quackery. 6. The Epstein Estate produced a letter from Trump to Jeffrey Epstein showing Trump writing love poems and signing his name in the Pubic region. 7. Military leaders were purged and now have been summoned for a cryptic meeting with Pete Hegseth. 8. Trump sent the guard into DC, pledged to send the military into Memphis. 9. TikTok was placed in the hands of MAGA loving billionaires. 10. Stephen Miller was appointed head of the administration's efforts to combat domestic terrorism a day after declaring Democrats a domestic terrorist organization. And 11, this is another one. Katie Miller described Stephen Miller as a sexual matador. Which one of those is most horrifying?

[C]

11.

[B]

11. No. All right, in all seriousness, 10 stories, one month. Any of those in normal times would have been shocking, but this is our lives. Of those, which one did you find the most horrifying? Let's start with Tim.

[A]

I'm sorry, I just like the Stephen Miller image. I'm just really struggling.

[C]

That sound you're hearing is millions of American women turning into lesbians.

[A]

My dick has receded into my stomach. Okay, I guess I'll probably zag here because I think the most ominous one is, well, both of the last two. I think that the TikTok thing, it's. I didn't even. So I guess I'm going against my own behavior here because I didn't even mention it on the podcast today. I've talked about a bunch of this other stuff, but, like, just over the medium term. I mean, the degree to which TikTok has a hold on the youth of America as far as an information device is, like, pretty alarming to me. Having now, like Trump, like, handing out goodies, the buddies, like, not even included in that is there's the corruption element of it, too. They essentially said TikTok is worth like 14 billion, which is like less than Snapchat. It's crazy. Like, all these rich conservative billionaires are gonna make a shit ton of money on this. They have control over the algorithm. If you now combine it with Zuck having Facebook, Musk having X Barry Weiss taking over CBS and cnn, maybe Fox News Newsmax. Kirk, the degree to which the right is going to control the media space and the social media space is really kind of hard to wrap your head around. And it's a huge. It's a sea change from five years ago. And Trump won in 2016 with having a lot of these institutions against him, really. You know, I mean, like, there was some Russian stuff happening on Facebook, but all that stuff was on the edges. Like, most of the tech CEOs, they weren't like progressive heroes or anything, but, like, were basically hostile to Trump. Like, most of the media networks were, like, basically hostile to Trump. So now, like, he'll be in a position going into 26, 27, where he has, like, him and his allies have control over almost all of them. And so I find that to be quite, quite alarming. And it relates to the Stephen Miller stuff because it allows for cover.

[B]

Sexual Madad.

[A]

No, not the sexual matador, but like, the targeting of domestic foes. Like when we were talking earlier about how I want to. Like, the James Comey stuff is both scary and offensive, but also mockable. Right, because he has the resources, to your point, like, he's gonna have lawyers, he's gonna have a team of media folks behind him, like, to fight this. Right? Like, if they start, like, treating, you know, left wing activist organizations as like domestic terrorist groups and, like, they start bringing down the power of the Justice Department and the fucking masked thugs, like, going after people in the streets, like, that stuff starts to get really, really dark. So I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of bad stuff there, but I just like projecting out. Those are the two things that have me the most alarmed. It's also the corruption. I don't like the corruption either.

[B]

Well, the corruption is the through line through all of those. Sarah, go ahead.

[C]

Well, we should have talked about this beforehand, because if I had realized you were gonna say that, I would have picked a different one.

[A]

You can go say yes and yes.

[C]

And the FCC, the TikTok thing was also. Yeah, not FCC. The TikTok thing was also mine. But I guess it is for a slightly different reason. I think that there are the things that Trump is doing now that are going to be very scary, but they are going to be sort of contained to Trump, and we have to push back against them and we have to fight against them. The thing about the takeover of the media companies is it's about the future and it's. And one of the things. I don't know if you guys listen to the pods. We did talk about this a little bit, but when Elon Musk. It's very difficult. I know that we're in the political prognostication business, but it's very difficult to predict the future. And sometimes when you're looking at the things that are right in front of you. For example, when Elon bought Twitter, we all thought, what a dumb move. Like, just from a value standpoint, from a business standpoint, he overpaid for it. He immediately trashed the value. And we were like, what is he doing? But of course, it became clear in 2024 what he was doing. He controlled a massive information stream. More importantly, he controlled the algorithm. And I want to. The thing about. And when Tim says CBS, that Larry Ellison, the Ellison takeover of CBS, and then now Time Warner.

[A]

These are TikTok. Yeah. I mean.

[C]

Right. The same people, and they are going to work that algorithm. So the thing that's changing about the news, the number one thing is that people used to be news seekers. All of you in this audience go looking for reliable information. Young people. Yeah. Good. Good job. Thank you. That's how you found out.

[A]

Way to go, news seekers.

[C]

No, but this is actually. This is a really important distinction about the future. Now people are just news. Like receivers, imbibers. Receivers. Right. It just comes to them algorithmically. They are going to control the full suite of what is being shown to people. And they can. Like Elon, you can see it when something. Right. Elon was doing a thing after the Charlie Kirk murder where he made sure that anybody on the left who said something really insensitive or celebrated the death, that. That got ramped up to make sure everybody could see it. And we are about to live in the world where Trump and all of his allies control all the information that the news receivers are getting. There is a reason that young are now leaning right. In a world where it has been axiomatic for so long that young people lean left, that's not happening anymore. And so for me, in terms of the dominance of Trump and Trump, like, people going forward, there is nothing scarier than the way Trump is making sure that all of his friends now control the information stream.

[B]

I would just.

[A]

I also think the TikTok thing just. Do you have something?

[B]

I was just gonna add one element to this. I actually had a different thing that scared me. But I think the other element that doesn't get enough attention almost is that these people who control the major media outlets all have business before the government. So it's not like they can wake up with the, you know, conscious and say, ah, you know what? I'm just gonna actually not tinker with that algorithm. Because Trump's gonna hold it over them. I mean, that is, I think, really what's driving so much of this. When Jeff Bezos pulled his endorsement in the Washington Post, surely in the back of his head, it's because he has billions, if not trillions of dollars at stake, and he wants to be on the good side of Trump.

[C]

I don't think it's in the back of his head.

[B]

It's in the front. Yeah. And it's just. It's very rare that we have media consolidation at this stage. The idea that. The idea that Ellison is going to control a major broadcasting network, the biggest social media company in the world, on top of a few other media entities in cnn, is shocking, and it's deeply troubling. And I think the other thing that makes me anxious is that it's hard to find a way around it. Right. I mean, what we're building is great. I love what we're building. And everyone should go and subscribe. If you haven't and tell everyone to subscribe.

[A]

I'm pretty sure we got it.

[B]

Yeah, I think you're already there. But. But how do you get around what is essentially like five different fire hoses? It's hard to actually see away.

[A]

Yeah, the TikTok. I mean, at some level, like, I do think that there's opportunities. I mean, I think that, like, this is where my used to be a Republican part does come in a little bit about, like, there's not just three channels, right? Like, the market, you know, people. You can go out and find a market and go out and find an audience. Like, we're doing that. Other people are doing that. And so I don't, like, it's not so bleak, but like, but can you.

[B]

If they can. If they're putting their stamp on, you know, your ability to do that?

[A]

Well, I think it might be, who knows, like, it might be tough on TikTok, for example, but Zuckerberg is not, like, so much in the tank for them that he's like, so, you know, there's Instagram, there's YouTube. Like, at this point, it's alarming, the TikTok thing. For me, the tough part is, and I don't. And I don't know, it was just such a political pickle for the Democrats because it's like, they're not. They're not even fighting it now, and you kind of can't fight it. I don't even want them to. Like, you go out there and you're like, no, TikTok shouldn't exist. And then People get. Really. Then it's not gonna work, for starters. And then people are gonna get mad at you for doing that. So it's like, it's just ridiculous.

[B]

This was Donald Trump's original idea that Joe Biden then picked up, that Congress then passed, that the Supreme Court then affirmed, and then Trump saved the company.

[A]

And Biden looks like an executive order. So it's like. I know. So like, that's the part about it. Like, it's totally against the rule of law. It's totally insane that they're able to do it that way. It's like at the anti Schoolhouse Rock. But it's also like, what do you do about it? Right? I mean, I guess you go bill, you go try to compete in other places and build other companies. But it's like a real fucking pickle. It's bad.

[B]

Let me. So my, My, My numbers were different than yours.

[A]

Okay, great. Can I guess what yours was? You know what mine is? It was about rfk. Just because your mommy is an OBGYN doesn't mean you have to be so narrowly focused on the health of our babies.

[B]

Someone has to be, Tim. I think telling people that Tylenol is going to cause autism and then taking away vaccines is bad. I don't know.

[A]

Have there been any measles outbreaks up here? I don't know anything. Yeah, we're getting measles. Where?

[C]

Don't worry, we brought it with us.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Out west. Calgary, Alberta, Ontario.

[B]

Yeah, it makes sense.

[A]

Which brings us to Mennonites catching strays.

[C]

Wait, let's talk about the Tylenol thing for a second, because the problem is not.

[A]

I thought you were supposed to put Tylenol between your legs.

[B]

That was the foster freeze.

[C]

That's what they told us in, like, middle school about how. Well, no, I heard that about. It was birth control pills. Like the way to tears birth controls is put between your knees and hold them there.

[A]

Got it. Okay.

[C]

It's like my high school gym teacher told us that. And cool story.

[B]

On the quick, quick aside on the issue of my mother, since you brought it up, she.

[A]

I love your mother.

[B]

She taught the sex ed class at my school. Do you realize how embarrassing that is? That's horrifying. It was like eighth grade and I'm sitting there, I'm just like, oh, my God, get me away.

[A]

Did you guys watch, like, sexy movies together?

[B]

I don't want to relive this. Go ahead, Sarah.

[A]

I like sexy movies. I don't know. Don't.

[C]

Why would they watch sexy movies together?

[A]

Everybody have that trauma together where you're, like, at the movie theater and there's one sex scene, but you're, like, there with your mother, and you're like, oh, my God. For me, it was Jarhead. Jake Gyllenhaal does a very. There's a very aggressive masturbation scene, and Jarhat. And Jake Gyllenhaal is going after it, and he's handsome. And I'm there with my mother and father as a closeted teenager. I'm going, this is horrible. But maybe it would have been better if a mother like Dr. Fine, who had talked me sex ed. Maybe it would have been more comfortable.

[C]

It's so funny. The difference between.

[B]

There's so many stories here, but I can't tell any of them.

[C]

The difference between gay men and lesbians is really funny because mine is like, the sexual tension in Fried Green Tomatoes was so between. Like, I've seen Jarhead a bunch of times, and I don't even remember the masturbation scene.

[A]

Like, I might pull it up back at the hotel room.

[C]

Okay, I had a point about.

[B]

Get to it, please, quickly.

[A]

What were we talking about?

[B]

RFK Jr.

[C]

Here's the thing. Read the hepatitis thing that Trump tweeted out today in, like, all caps. I don't know whether or not Tylenol has any relation to autism. Actually, when we discussed it on the show. Just hold on a second. What we don't want to do is be in a position where, based on who is giving us the information. Right. We are polarized against scientific information. However, what we do know about Donald Trump is he is neither a doctor nor a smart person. Same with rfk. And so this is something that people are interested in figuring out, like, why it's happening. And so for them, the reason that they did it was because they promised they would. And so, like, the level of irresponsibility. It's not us saying we know what does or does not cause anything.

[A]

The geriatric sperm.

[C]

You just like that.

[B]

You just like that one. He's right. Old, old man sperm is more likely to cause autism than tylenol. It's true. Dr. Fine said so.

[A]

His mother said, sure, we're still researching.

[C]

That's fine. But the entire. I just. To me, the idea that the President of the United States is out there tweeting these things, when parents have real, like, feelings about this, the way that they're putting this on mothers like, it is. It is like, one of the cruelest things I have seen them do.

[B]

Oh, it's incredibly cruel.

[C]

And irresponsible.

[B]

What killed me about the press conference with RFK about Tylenol, in addition to how ridiculous it was and how unscientific it was and how Trump had to insert himself like he should never have been there, is I couldn't help but imagine the mother who had just given birth and had taken Tylenol at the worst parts of her pregnancy when she was in pain and feverish, and then was told by the President of the United States, you might have just given your kid autism for no reason whatsoever. That is cruel. Psychologically cruel.

[C]

I got a text message from somebody I know and love who's got a seven month old who they put on a Tylenol drip when she was just giving birth, spiking a fever, because that's what they do. And, like, the level of panic that people are feeling right now by this, like, sometimes it's. We laugh because he can't spell hepatitis, but, like, it is causing real damage to people or pronounced acetaminophen.

[B]

All right, we got to move the fucking horrible. We're going to move the show along quickly. But before we exit this segment, we're going to do a game that I've done with Tim multiple times, but I never actually done with Sarah, which is who's the most pernicious cabinet member. Based on all this, you know, my choice. It remains RFK Jr. I think I know Tim's choice still. Pam Bondi.

[A]

I'm switching.

[B]

You're switching? You coming to my side?

[A]

No.

[C]

Who you is?

[A]

It's your turn.

[C]

I didn't know that this was coming and I didn't think about it.

[A]

You know, it's been such a competitive category, you know, and my rankings, I had a little gimmick I was doing for a little while on Twitter. I should re up it where I was like doing like the grade rankings of all of the Trump cabinet members. And I kept just giving Doug Burgum A and then like B, C, D were all empty. And then I was just like, f, F minus. Doug's doing fine. Yeah. It turns out Doug actually has some corruption issues too, which isn't surprising. But I think I have to be with Christy Gnome right now.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And this is the first reveal of that. This is her first time in the pole position in the rankings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is down the stretch, but I don't know. Did you read Ben Terris profile?

[B]

It's pretty good.

[A]

It is. I mean, and the fact that she's having an affair with Corey Lewandowski, who had the worst breath that I've ever encountered in my life. In a spin room in South Carolina in 2016, he got right up in my face and kind of hip checked me and I almost fell down. Not from the hip check because his breath was so rancid. He's a really unappealing human. And so they're having. He's apparently running dhs. Like you did mention the one example, the guy they fired today. But there's just no accountability. They're hiring all these people. They're hiring. All the ICE agents are doing it totally irresponsibly. Like the amount of just damage and pain being done in the country by DHS right now, I think outstrips the damage that other folks are doing. I mean, the RFK could pass her again for sure that Pam Bondi is in the competitive set.

[B]

It's real time.

[A]

Luckily, Pete Hegseth, we kind of just rolled over his little meeting today. I mean, on Monday. It sounds like he's just going to give like a. What was the movie where Bill Paul, Independence Day. Sounds like he's just going to give like an Independence Day speech to the generals and then give them a challenge coin or something. Or give them like a branded cash coin. Yeah, branded. A branded quarter zip. You know, that says war fighters on it. So he hasn't done enough damage yet to be in there. So I'm going Gnome, Bondi and rfk.

[B]

Okay. What about you, Nutlik?

[A]

We do love Howard Nutlik.

[B]

How can you not love Howard?

[A]

We do love Howard Nutlik. Yeah, he is clownish.

[B]

Clownish, but not totally damaging.

[C]

Okay. So I've sat here and tried to think who is in the cabinet. So I'm going through them all in my head. So let's just take them one by one a little bit. I don't know if I can name all the cabinet members, but we've got Hegseth who I would say his. The apex of his effort was when he did a war thing on signal. Right. Like I know that's not in your month thing because that was just a couple months ago.

[A]

You know what else wasn't in your month thing that happened this month is Hegseth is just drone striking random boats in the.

[C]

So Hegseth's committing war crimes and then often including random people on signal and he's talking about it. Okay. Also he does his pull ups the wrong way. I get a lot of emails about how he does his pull ups the wrong way. Marco Rubio, who's supposed to be the normal one, now has many jobs but is shutting them all down. Spends a lot of time with dictators and spends a lot of time covering for Trump's worst things by putting a normie sheen on it. So that's bad.

[A]

Can we pause on Rubio for a second?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We got a minute, right? We got nowhere to be. We're doing okay, everybody. You guys are having a good time. We're doing good.

[B]

Let's go.

[A]

Like it is. Just because we're out of the, you know, because, like, Rubio at some level has some jurisdiction over, you know, cross border relationship here and our friends in the north. It was kind of interesting. I was emailing this guy or I was interviewing this guy from the Daily caller yesterday for YouTube and he was unhappy with a segment Sam and I did where we ruthlessly mocked his media outlet and he wanted a chance to rebut it. And so I gave him a chance. It was interesting. He pulled like, he kind of conceded on a couple of points, but one of them that he was very quick to concede on was the Rubio green card stuff, like around the free. Like, I do feel like he doesn't get enough attention for this. It is so pernicious. Like, this idea that, like, you might. Your green card, you know, like, that you might not get that if you had, like, criticized Israel or like, done a mean tweet about Charlie Kirk. Like, it is, it is. It's very un American. It's very against free speech, very against everything that Rubio is for. So with. If you lump that like a assault on essentially the freedom to travel in the country and have whatever political views you have with the total shuttering of usaid, I think I've convinced myself Rubio might be on my. On my top three.

[B]

Who are you going to knock off? It's tough, man.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

You think about that. You keep going.

[C]

Okay. So Rubio, I thought, deserved at least some consideration.

[A]

I'm glad you brought him up. And his ears are just unbelievably big right now. Yeah, it's like inhuman how big. He's like jumbo.

[C]

Every time you see Marco Rubio, he's like sallow and sweaty and he looks like his soul has just left his body, but he's also small and. Yeah. So I actually, because I was a Rubio person at one point.

[A]

Yeah. Couldn't have been me because he was.

[C]

A Jeb person, because this is. What'd you say?

[A]

Please clap for Jeff. Please clap.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you. He deserves that. Jeff deserves that. He did his best up there.

[C]

Okay. But then let's talk about cash for half a second.

[B]

Not in the Cabinet. Not Cabinet.

[A]

He would have been in my top three.

[B]

Yeah, easy. Easy pick, but not Cabinet. Sorry.

[A]

Yeah, moving on. If you lump him in with Bondi. Yeah. As a tag team.

[B]

It's not a package deal. No one Tulsi, where is. No, she used to be your top.

[A]

Tulsi was on my top for a while.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She.

[B]

She's drifted.

[C]

Okay, well, here's gonna be my pick.

[A]

Fire a lot of our top intelligence officials. But okay. Yeah. Scott Besson. Anti gay homophobia.

[C]

Scott Besson is gay and keeps punching people. I was gonna talk about Besson.

[B]

You're gonna be the anti gay person by picking him. But go ahead. Stop interrupting her, Tim.

[C]

Yeah. No, no, no. My.

[B]

I want her answer.

[C]

My answer is the Vice President.

[B]

Oh, I hadn't even thought about that.

[C]

He fucking sucks, the Vice President. So I was going to go through the cabinet and just talk about all of the insane things that they've done because I think sometimes one of the. The trouble with the Trump administration is that they do so many outrageous things and they are muscling through it. This time. Hegseth should have been gone over the signal thing. Bondi should have been gone over the Epstein files. Her people came for her and she's still there. Car I know is not in the Cabinet, but like, these people, you know, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. Like, each one of them has done something that should have gotten them fired, but he's not firing people this time. But the worst person in the cabinet is J.D. vance.

[B]

Do you want to expand on why?

[C]

I mean, a. Because.

[A]

Have you ever hated anyone more than you hate JD Vance?

[C]

And you know, part of it, and.

[A]

It'S like, not even close for me. I've spent. I spent a lot of time. I just kind of sat alone one night and I was like. I keep making this statement that he is. I've never felt more disdain from any. For anyone in my life than J.D. vance. And I was like, going back to childhood and I was like, what about the guys that bullied me? Like, what about the people that were mean to my mom? You know? And I, like, thought about it and tried to feel how I felt about them. Nobody comes close.

[B]

What is it about him that draws this?

[C]

There's two things. There's two things, and it's a little bit. One of the reasons I was talking about Rubio is there's nothing worse than the people who we know. J.D. vance was one of us. He was a never Trumper who saw Trump clearly said he was Hitler. Like, the only member of Trump's Cabinet. No, sorry. Everybody who's like, you can't call Trump Hitler. That's incendiary. You're inciting violence. I'm, like, the only person to call Trump Hitler is his vice president.

[B]

No, RFK Jr. To RFK Jr.

[C]

True, right? That was like, a very good Twitter correction. But that's not just that.

[A]

To be honest, there are some people on Blue sky calling him Hitler as well.

[B]

Whatever. Don't go there. Don't bring Blue sky into this.

[C]

But the reason that I am Most worried about J.D. vance is that J.D. vance is going to run for president. He's going to run in Trump's legacy, and he is up close learning every bad lesson. And the reason that you think you hate him. Here's the thing. The reason that American politics, we can't get a handle on it and we can't figure out how to push back is because it's too chronically online. And so it doesn't feel real, right? It doesn't feel like a serious thing up there. Yesterday, he called Jon Favreau, just our podcasting friend. He got on Twitter and called him a dipshit, right? He just, like, gets in the mix as the Vice President, United States. Nobody has ever lowered that office more. Nobody has ever. He went after Zelensky and told him, hey, have you ever said thank you? Like, you can make all the couch jokes you want, but it's almost not funny because J.D. vance is a breath away from the presidency and he sucks so hard and is doing nothing but propping Trump up.

[A]

It's also just. It's fucking. It's just so fucking fake. He's just such a smarmy, fake, condescending piece of shit. Like, Donald Trump obviously, like, does fake stuff he doesn't believe, but, like, kind of like you're getting his ID most of the time, you know? Like, J.D. vance is a performative prick, and there's like, there's nothing worse than being a fucking performative prick, right? It's like he's not. He's like, I'm pretending like. Like, I am a total sociopathic asshole, because I think that is what I need to do to get power, and I find it so fucking appalling. And also, his face, I don't like. I don't like his haircut. Really.

[B]

I don't mind the eyeshadow.

[A]

I don't like his haircut. I didn't like his book I didn't like the movie. That's also fake. He's had three names and two or three religions, and his book was all like, oh, I got to Yale, and I didn't know where the fork went. It's like, nobody knows where the fucking fork went, okay? I didn't become. You don't become a Nazi because you don't know where the fork went at the fucking formal party at Yale, okay? I fucking hate J.D. vance so much.

[C]

So do I win that game?

[A]

Honestly, I would say we're going go.

[B]

To a game a second. I'm just going to add my 2 cents on JD they're kind of serious.

[A]

Contrary views. No, no, no.

[B]

Yeah. I love JD On a very serious note, anyone who could admittedly lie about a Haitian. A disparaged and endangered Haitian community eating cats and then admit that he did it so that you can get the media to focus on it, to do that in service of some political aim says something about you. And I think that summarizes. J.D. vance, we are gonna actually lighten the mood a little bit because. Lighten, Tim.

[A]

I'm feeling light.

[B]

You're feeling light? Tim has a game. I'm gonna let Tim introduce his game.

[A]

We kind of do this on Saturday night around the house, me and my husband. You do? Yeah, we sit around. No, no, no. Well, we do this next game too, but we also do, like, eight minute hate on J.D. vance. Like, it's been a long week. Can we just get it out?

[B]

Tyler, you go first. Eight minutes sharp. Eight. Tyler.

[A]

All right. Did we come up with a name for this game? I don't know. I like to do when I'm doing interviews, I like to ask people what their dream blunt rotation is. And so since we were given some weed gummies behind the stage, I thought we'd have a draft with what our Canadian blunt rotation would be. If we just got to hang out after this. Sorry. It wouldn't be with you guys. It would be with our dream people. And so we'll have a draft at the end. You can decide which group you want to get high with starting first. Sarah, who's your first choice?

[C]

Katie Lang.

[A]

Horrible choice. Sam, who's your first choice?

[B]

Seth Rogen. Easily.

[A]

Seth Rogen. No, I'm taking Bieber. You?

[C]

Justin Bieber.

[A]

Obviously. Biebs.

[B]

What kind of high are you gonna get?

[A]

Whatever he's into.

[C]

So we don't even get to, like, tell stories at all about why we chose who we chose? We're just going fast.

[B]

We got you.

[A]

Can you. Can.

[C]

You can if you want, I would just say. I'll just say.

[A]

My choices are.

[C]

I would. I would like to sit down with Katie Lang and tell her about the time my mom just gave me a Katie Lang CD and was like, here. I think you need to hear this.

[A]

That's a lovely story. Yeah.

[C]

All right. Okay. My second one, Megan Follows. They don't even know who that is.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna.

[C]

I wanna see a show of hands of people who know who that is.

[A]

Who is that? What do they do?

[C]

Anne of Green Gables, my most formative work.

[A]

Is that a lesbian show?

[C]

No.

[A]

Okay. I'm taking Michael Cera.

[B]

Basically, Megan Follows. I want the guy who runs the shoe museum. No, I don't. I have no desire to get high with that guy. Sga. I want to talk ball.

[C]

Ooh.

[A]

Shy Gilgeous Alexander. Okay, well, you're going to lose, I think. What is. Who's your final choice for your Blunt Rotation?

[C]

Margaret Atwood. See, here's the thing.

[A]

Here's the thing. Sarah's going to win, but that's because you guys don't really know, don't understand what a real Blunt rotation is. The last person you want in a Blunt rotation is Margaret Atwood, okay? Literally the last person to get high.

[C]

And ask people questions. I want to be like, what's it like to know that your fictional work became a documentary?

[B]

Sounds like a thrilling conversation.

[C]

Also, if I wasn't here to name these blunt rotations, it would just be a bunch of dudes talking about sports. Lot of people love Anne of Green Gables.

[B]

Does Katy Perry count yet? No. Okay. I was gonna go with Neil Young. Neil Young.

[A]

Fuck. Neil Young's a good choice. I was trying to go for an entire twink Blunt rotation, but I couldn't think of any other ones besides Michael Cera and Justin Bieber. So I have to take Mike Myers as my final one, and we're gonna discuss. So I married an axe murderer. Okay? So there you go. Who do you want to get high with after the show? Cheer for Sarah.

[B]

This is rigged.

[A]

I want you to remember that my Blunt rotation has Justin Bieber in it. Cheer for me if you want to hang out with me and Sam. Nobody. Okay?

[B]

Sarah wins.

[A]

You guys are fucking lame. You wanna get high with Margaret Atwood and. And talk about female sex slavery. Megan Fellows, life is too short to get high with Margaret Atwood, okay? And I'm not upset because she didn't come tonight. We did invite her. Would have been great to.

[C]

We did invite her.

[A]

I would love to have Margaret Atwood on the podcast. But we're gonna do it sober. And, you know, it's different at the fun times. Do we have more politics to do?

[B]

We have one last segment, which is we got some questions submitted from audience members. We're going to pose a few of them.

[A]

All right. Rapid fire style or.

[B]

Well, they don't lend themselves to rapid fire, to be honest. We can try. We're going to go through a lot.

[A]

Of email questions about the authoritarian moment. Have you gotten.

[B]

Yeah, we got one about the Pennsylvania Supreme Court race. We're going to skip that one. Sorry, sorry. Judy.

[A]

You know what we haven't talked about for you to do you have any thoughts on Mark Carney, how he's been doing? What does everybody think about? I feel like Mark. I'm trying to decide if Emmanuel Macron or Mark Carney is the most bulwarky world leader. You guys think Carney. I think probably Carney's just such a globalist, you know, kind of lib.

[C]

Did you guys see his closing ad? Do you remember this at all? I was in it. And do you know why I was in it? It's not because he was like, look at this cool chick. It was like he was like, we don't want to be like these Americans. And it was me going like this to Scott Jennings on CNN.

[A]

Anything we can do to help Mr. Carney? Are we worried a little bit that he's kind of wussing out? No, we're feeling good. You don't want to turn up the pain a little more on the Yankees? No, we're happy. Okay, good. I'm not sure at a guttural level, I want you to tax us. Okay. Like at a deep level. But I think probably that strategic consideration would be.

[B]

Are you aware of the phenomenon called maple washing?

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

Are you aware of maple washing?

[A]

It's kind of like greenwashing, I guess, but Canadian washing. What? You have like a mountain.

[B]

US Goods coming into Canada, but the people selling them are presenting them as Canadian products.

[A]

Oh, death penalty for those people.

[B]

The other great news story that I discovered in my 10 minutes of research prior to this show was that the U.S. ambassador to Canada.

[A]

Hold on, hold on.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

Can you name how many people can name the ambassador?

[B]

I guess so.

[A]

Wild. Who's your ambassador to US? Who? Hillman. She's really knocking it out of the park.

[B]

She's doing great.

[A]

Or them. They.

[B]

So Pete Hoekstra apparently said he was disappointed to find out that there isn't more maga in Canada.

[A]

We also Invited Pete to come out here tonight, and he declined as well.

[B]

He's not in my blunt rotation. All right, let's take some audience questions. All right. Michael writes about the Kimmel situation. Did the C Suite, in this instance believe Trump's spin that he's a popular mandate? And that's why they underestimated the public backlash. It's a crazy brand decision to cave to this administration. It seems wildly ignorant of public opinion. I think that's basically kind of what.

[A]

You were getting at.

[B]

Or. No.

[C]

Okay. This is tough to say. Like, Donald Trump absolutely does not have a popular mandate by the vote. Right. So he didn't. Okay, I know. Yeah. Clap, clap, clap. Good, good, good. Anyway, here's the thing. Trump did win the culture in America by more than he won the vote. Like, there were a bunch of things that Americans are really frustrated by. They are frustrated by our border situation. They are frustrated. What?

[A]

The straws, you guys.

[C]

Paper straws. Every time they make a paper straw, a Republican gets born. Okay.

[A]

I'm telling you to drink a chocolate shake out of this thing.

[C]

It's awful.

[A]

That is an affront to my freedoms.

[C]

Yeah, There I get it.

[A]

I mean, I'm not going to fascism over it, but.

[C]

Right.

[A]

They have a point on the straws.

[C]

No, it's true.

[A]

Important to note.

[C]

And there's a lot of people who voted for Kamala Harris because they're like, yeah, this guy is no good. But, like, we've got to stop with the insert dei, insert woke, insert political correctness. There is a real thing happening in America, and a lot of it is because of COVID And in the post Covid world, where people are like, that went too far. And look, we can have a conversation all day long about who was president in 2020 during COVID I think it was Trump. It is the most misunderstood thing in America. Who was president at different times. You guys, there's this call in.

[A]

You got called out for that recently. Did you see that when you were like. Because we make this joke about how people can't remember who was president in 2020. And then you did the thing on the next level. You're like, on January 6, 2020, fans were like, Sarah, it was 2021. Oh, Donald Trump was still president in 2020.

[C]

Right.

[A]

It's okay. That's all right. We all forget. It's tough. It's tough.

[C]

It was a long time ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Anyway, wait, what was the question?

[B]

We're going to go to the next question from Debbie.

[A]

Look, debut Trump winning the culture. And that's why the fucking suits folded. The suits are still trying to navigate it.

[C]

That's right. It is not. It is not. It is not like the first time where everybody's like, Trump is a historical accident. The second time, everybody knew everything.

[B]

Why the popularity then? I'm kind of curious about that because, yeah, I agree with you on the cultural stuff. And yet you look at these polls and he's at 42, 43. That's.

[A]

Here's the thing. Nobody fucking believes them.

[B]

The polls.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, like, that's just like, again, I'm not saying they shouldn't believe them, but, like, if you're trying to understand behavior, like, the question is trying to understand behavior. Trump's polls are bad.

[B]

Yeah. But you.

[A]

Why are the CEOs folding them? They don't. They don't buy.

[B]

Push back a tiny bit. You. Because you've been covering the stuff about those podcast bros who have basically been like, I didn't sign up for this. And they're great. They were like, at the front. They are the vanguard of the cultural shift, I would argue. And now they seem to be retreating a little bit. Like Theo Vaughn, you know, seems uncomfortable with.

[A]

Yeah, but the suits, I think, I think the suits are pretty comfortable right now. I think the oligarchy is feeling pretty good. And the suits, they don't love the tariffs, but he's been tacoing on them and then they've been bribing him. And so, like, I think as far as Trump's constituencies are concerned, like the, you know, MAGA base that hates the woke stuff, the people that are nativists that want the immigrants out and like, the corporate rich guys are probably the happiest right now. I think that's probably part of it.

[C]

Sorry, what about it?

[B]

What about it?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, but this is sort of the point, right? Like, I, I do think that they. People believe in America now, and I believe this, too, listening to voters. America is still a center right country. And I also think that the linear spectrum of, like, right and left is starting to become more and more meaningless. But there is a blowback, a pushback, a backlash, whatever you want to call it in the United States to basically everything that happened from 2020 on, including when Trump was president, that it goes for Black Lives Matter, it goes for Covid, and we are still living in it. And I think that every one of these media companies has decided that the future is on the center right? And, like, that is a real thing that's happening right now. And one of the things that I'm going to start doing more and more. As mad as I think it's going to make people at me is that there's a Hopium out there. This idea that, like, well, Trump is unpopular is at 44%. People are seeing in the demographic information that, like, they're like, yeah, I don't want him to deport criminals, but I want the border closed. And like, yeah, I don't want them to be like, crazy on, like, putting the National Guard in the streets. But we do want something done about crime. And Democrats are gonna have to figure out how to navigate that. And it's gonna be. And it's the reason that Democrats can't find their footing right now, because for a long time in 2020, they thought, oh, okay, well, if we're, you know, left on this stuff, it'll work. And that's where our base is. But it is not where the majority of Americans are. And there's a reshuffling going on that people are trying to find their way through that.

[A]

But also, these guys are such fucking reactive wusses, you know, and it's like literally the same people that put end racism in the end zone on the football field, like, did a 10 minute ode to Charlie Kirk this time. Like, these guys are just totally reactive to what's happening. And in the same way they overstepped in the past, they're overreaching this time. And there will be a backlash to the backlash. Of course.

[C]

I agree with that. That's Sarah being optimistic that people tell me I'm delusional. Like, I think there's going to be a backlash, but also, I just also think it's really important people understand, like, why this is happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, I want to get to two more. One is Timmy. Take this one from Debbie. Why are the America first idiots bailing out Argentina?

[A]

Why are the American first idiots bang up Argentina? Does anybody. I mean, I guess I like the answer to that. Like the obvious Occam's Racer answer that is like, Trump just wants people to be nice to him. Like, honestly. And like, yeah, like Malay. Yeah, Malay sucked up to him. And so he's like, whatever, I'm going to be nice to this guy because he sucked up to me. It is crazy, though, that there's not more backlash to it. And it's like an outrageous policy. Like, we're going to do a $20 billion bridge loan to Argentina while we're like, shutting down aid to the poorest people in the world. Like, it's an insane Policy. It's on the merits. It's also insane politics.

[B]

But it's crazy because Milei came to America, brought a fucking chainsaw with him, handed it to Elon Musk and said, go cut your government. And we did it. And now we're bailing out his government with our money.

[A]

What the fuck? We're still paying all the people Elon Musk fired because he did it illegally.

[B]

Getting them, trying to get them to come back to work. It's not.

[C]

Wait, hold on. Just there is. The reason that we're bailing them out is because they don't want his project to fail because the American right feels connected to that project 100%. Yeah, that's the answer.

[A]

Sorry, you don't think it's Donald Trump got sucked.

[C]

I think that's probably it, too. But I do think that they feel like they staked something on that political project, and if it fails, that's a problem for them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, last question.

[A]

Jared Polis, during our interview with him, said he wanted Javier Millay to be in his blunt circle. And that's the only worst answer I've heard than Margaret Atwood. I love Jared Polis. It wasn't a great blunt circle answer.

[B]

He would be terrible in a blunt circle.

[C]

Yeah, we do have a little bit. As much as I love my moderates, some of them are doing some very weird things to express their moderation. Like, you do not, under any circumstances, have to hand it to RFK Jr. If you're the Democratic governor, that's your boy.

[A]

Tim. I'm sorry. I got. Sometimes I got a soft spot for people. All right, let me.

[C]

Oh, you're kidding. The gay gamer for. Yeah.

[A]

Where does your soft spot. He's doing a great job.

[B]

All right, last.

[A]

Are not that great. Last question is a future as a podcast host. It's covered in is.

[B]

Okay, last question from. From Virginia. Sir, you're going to take this one.

[A]

Is it fun?

[B]

No.

[A]

Can we have a fun one? Can we have two more?

[B]

There are no fun ones.

[A]

No one submitted a single fun question.

[B]

No, I guess there's one that's kind of funny. Let's. Let's go with this one, then we'll do. The funny one is from Virginia. Haven't Dems shot each other enough? I get that Kamala Harris's book just came out, but good Lord, Exclamation point. Stop criticizing everyone who might shoulder some blame over the 2024 loss. It's been done and done and done again.

[A]

No, I will not. I will not have we not learned anything? Did we not live through 2024? If your lesson from 2024 was we should not talk about bad things that the Democrats are doing, we should just be quiet and just cheer for every Democrat, no matter what they're doing, then I don't know what to tell you. I think you've gone insane. I think politics has made you insane. Like, the lesson we learned from 2024 is that more Democrats should have been like, why are we doing this crazy thing, renominating somebody that every single person in every focus group and every poll tells us they don't want us to nominate? So maybe we should have been doing that in 2024.

[B]

Have you read the full book yet.

[A]

Or no, I have not. I don't. Do I have to. I have to try to get on the pod. It's one of the burdens of being a podcast host. I don't really know why she's writing the book, and I'm hoping to ask her about it.

[B]

The book's a little wild to come out there and just rehash this stuff, I got to say.

[A]

Do you have anything to ask?

[C]

I mean, it was a question for me, so I'm going to.

[A]

Was it?

[C]

It was.

[B]

It was.

[C]

That's okay.

[A]

Sometimes when women's names get said that it's like, over my head. Like, what? Virginia, Sarah, Lauren, Rebecca.

[C]

Sometimes I ask Tim. I'm like, tim, do you like. Do you like, like, this shirt? And he'll be like, I can't see you. I don't even like where. I don't. I don't see girls or women.

[A]

I apologize.

[C]

So anyway, why here? Here? Actually, I think. I think differently from. From Tim. I do think. I think the reason that Democrats continue to shoot at each other is that they don't have an answer for what it means to move forward. And I think they've got to get that answer because I do want them to move forward. I think it's very important to learn the lessons of 2024, but, like, the time to solve that is kind of now and then to figure out, where do we want to go. You know, JVL had a really good newsletter the other day about, like, where's our project 2029? And I actually don't think Democrats. Well, let's not remember, Project 2025 was, like, not a popular thing, and Trump ran away from it. And I.

[B]

So JVL's not here. Don't need to clap. I'm here. I'm here. Okay.

[C]

But broadly, the idea of, hey, we're a political party that has a direction, has a stance, knows where we're going, knows what we stand for, and we can explain it to you or articulate it to you. You're like, yeah, it's about time you guys did that. We're all waiting. What is it? And instead, they're gonna continue to shoot at each other until somebody's got an answer. And so I think it's very important they figure out an answer so that they can stop shooting at each other.

[B]

This is a good point, and I think there's a lot to actually marinate on about what that project should be. And I think we should discuss this tomorrow. Honestly, there's a lot to go on here. There's a big debate happening in the Democratic Party come tomorrow, all right?

[A]

By saying, can I do another thing.

[B]

And another thing and another thing about.

[A]

Why we should all. It's cool. Like, let's. Let's all criticize each other and talk about it and figure out what the best thing to do is. We don't have to do exactly what I want. We don't have to do narrow ones. We surely shouldn't do. Do whatever Sarah wants. We don't need center, centrist neoliberalism.

[C]

I'm sorry, what is. What would you call your brand of politics?

[A]

Exactly the same as yours. Just a little chiller about it. But, like, I get this thing sometimes for libs that don't, like, actually watch Republican stuff, like, or Fox or anything. And you shouldn't, by the way. I do that to punish myself. Like, the Republicans don't do this. Like, they say stand in line and they have an echo chamber, and they all say exactly the same thing. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, Donald Trump ran again against the most popular governor, Republican governor in the country, and called him Meatball Ron. Called him Ron desanctimonious. And, like, he made fun of all their, like, half his cabinet. He's made fun of their faces. Like, he made fun of how they looked. He called Jeb. Like, that is not true. That's not true. Like, they fucking fight it out. And Donald Trump won because he won people over. And by the way, he won running against the Republican Party. He won running against the establishment because people didn't like the Republican establishment. And so the Democratic establishment can't get their shit together over the next year or two. You know who's gonna win the Democratic nomination in 2028? Somebody's running against them. They have somebody who is calling them all weak and somebody is saying that they failed people, and so we shouldn't. And maybe that's good, by the way. Maybe that's okay. I don't know. God willing, we have real fucking elections in 2028, and we can have somebody that does that and galvanizes people and has a plan for 2029, and that's good and okay. And we should all encourage that and shouldn't be so sensitive about it. It's nice.

[B]

I'm into that.

[A]

Debate it out.

[B]

Hell, yeah, I agree with that. All right, this is the closest we get to a fun question.

[A]

All right, let's do it.

[B]

This is from Corin.

[A]

Are you in the crowd?

[B]

Corn.

[A]

What up, girl? Do you want to come up here and read it yourself?

[B]

Come on, Corn.

[A]

Or is it a boy? Is Corn a boy's name?

[C]

Corn. Corn.

[A]

Corn is a male name.

[B]

Get up here, Corn.

[A]

Final question.

[C]

All right. Come here.

[A]

Final question.

[C]

Hi.

[A]

You have to read the one that was on the paper, though. Okay.

[B]

You don't have to read all of it. I was so thrilled JBL liked my question.

[A]

All right. There we go.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Where are you from? Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Where are you from?

[B]

Oh, I'm from Toronto.

[A]

Right here in Toronto. Right here. And.

[B]

And I'm at your show tonight, and my question is, I'm going down to celebrate Thanksgiving with family in San Francisco in October. In November, they don't. Yeah, we're going in November and. But I'm a Canadian, so my question is, should I buy a burner phone to cross the border? Hey, everyone, clap for Corinne.

[C]

Like, what's. What's your job?

[B]

I was a high school teacher, but now I'm retired.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Get up for Corin. Thank you. Corinne. What's the answer?

[A]

I've got some great.

[C]

First of all, your legs look great. Second of all, I don't know that retired high school teachers are what they're targeting at the border, so I don't.

[A]

Think that's what's on that phone. Can I see your. Can I see her for you? Paige, can I take a peek at your Instagram reels page? I want to see what your kind of material you're looking at, but before.

[C]

I weigh in, I mean, I think you're okay.

[B]

Yeah, you'll be all right, man.

[C]

You'll be okay.

[A]

I think you're all right. You know, little fun tip I learned from an attorney is maybe you turn your phone off before you go through so they, you know, they can't compel you to go through it. Here's my thing. I think you're fine, man, but we're in a fucking dark. This is why it's not a funny question. We're in a dark place that, like, people have to have the conversation. Like we really are. And I don't. You know, my bestie that lives for four blocks from me, his wife's from Spain, God love her. She got. She's a citizen now. Just recently, like, right before Trump came back in, she'd kind of gone through the process, but, like, her parents come in and out a lot, right, to come see the grandkids, to come visit. And, like, they're worried, like, you know, they're Spanish. They're worried about being targeted, you know, racially. And, you know, they're worried, like they're old, you know, you know, like, deal with the hassle and stress of being targeted, detained. And she asked me about this, and I was like, I can't tell you that that's not a legitimate worry. I don't think that your mother, your abuela, is going to end up in Sakat in El Salvador. But it is a real thing that people have to worry about coming to America. Now, that's a legit worry. I think you can enjoy your Thanksgiving. But I do think it really, it sucks that it's our reality and that this is what Donald Trump has signed us up for it. And that's why we wanted to come to Canada, to be in solidarity with you guys.

[B]

That's a great note. To end the Q and A. We're going to turn to Sarah now for our closing remarks. But before we do, I want to just say thank you, guys. You were awesome. Appreciate it.

[A]

Aren't we so lucky to have Sam? How great is Sam? Sam.

[B]

My girl. My girl right there.

[A]

Yes. We could not run a real business without Sam. I just let you tell you that.

[C]

Say what you say.

[A]

I said we could not run a real media company.

[C]

That is true. We hired Sam. And it was one of the best things that we ever did.

[B]

One of the best things I ever. That ever happened to me, honestly.

[C]

And actually, I'll. I'll. I'll start my close closing by telling you a little bit about how Sam came to us, because it's only been two years, maybe not even.

[B]

I came in July 1st of 2024. So a year and three months.

[C]

A year and three months feels like longer. But, you know, when Sam came, he came and sat down, and Tim is like, you know, Sam Stein keeps saying he wants to come work here. And I was like, really? And when Sam and I sat down he was like, I see what you guys are doing. I see that you're building a community more than you're building an audience. And I see that you guys want to be this, you know, sort of, like, fearless, scrappy thing. And I was like, this guy gets us, and, yeah, you should come work here. And, you know, the thing about the Bulwark is that, like, we didn't. It just sort of happened. Like, we didn't start a media company so we could sell it to somebody like a lot of these guys do. We started it because the Weekly Standard got shut down because it was insufficiently pro Trump. And a bunch of us were really upset about what was happening to the country. And as we've grown and as we've gotten bigger and as we've built this community, the thing that we hear over and over again is you keep us sane. And we heard that tonight. But the thing is, like, you guys keep us sane, right? Part of what happens when the world feels like it's upside down and the reality that you've lived with goes away. The only way that you can orient yourself morally, ethically, intellectually is by looking back and forth with people that you respect and people you trust to say, you see the sky's blue, right? It's blue for you, too. And, like, that was part of what happened when Sam came to us. He's like, I see what you're doing. I see who you are. Like, I want to do this, too. Which has really been our litmus test for people who join us. Like, you're watching us grow, and it is people coming to us and saying, like, I see what you guys are doing, and I want to be a part of it. Because everybody else right now, they don't see what's happening. They don't see what time it is. They're going through the motions, like, the world is still normal. And so the thing about authoritarians, and I do close all the shows the same way, because it's a real thing where they are trying to exhaust us with the constant scandal, the constant corruption, the constant offense. It is meant to put us on our back foot. It is meant to make us tired. It is meant to make us feel like there's no way to push back against it. It's too much. It's changing too fast. We can't do anything about it. But of course we can do something about it. And what the Jimmy Kimmel thing shows us is that when you push back, they cave. Like, the point. The thing about Donald Trump is that he is A weak person. Elon Musk is a weak person. These are weak and broken men who for some reason, because of their weakness and their brokenness, have found each other and have found a way to make themselves feel big and strong. And the worst thing we can do is let them, right? And so, like, I love JBL with all my heart. He is one of my best friends. For real? For real. But he should have come. I don't mean to shit on him, but he should have come. Because we should never let them make us afraid. We should be together and we should show up and we should keep pushing back and we should keep saying it's wrong and we should never for one second. And when people say, sarah, you're too optimistic to the point of delusion, all I'm saying is do not give up. Do not let the darkness swallow you. Do not make it so that you say, well, things are too bad that I can't do anything about it, because that's how they win. I promise you.

[A]

Don't go to Medieval Times.

[C]

And I just want to say, when we come and do things like this, it makes us so happy. We love to see you guys. We love to be with you. We love to hear from you. And I just. We came because we felt all the love from Canada coming our way when this stuff happened. And we just really appreciate you guys. Tell all your friends about the bull work. Help us build a big community, and we will keep coming back and we will keep showing up and we will keep doing the things that we're doing. Thank you so much, Toronto.

[B]

Thank you.