Podcast Summary: The Bulwark is on Trump’s Naughty List

Bulwark Takes – The Bulwark
Date: December 14, 2025
Hosts: Bill Kristol & Sam Stein

Episode Overview

This episode delivers an incisive, wide-ranging conversation between Bill Kristol and Sam Stein focusing on recent developments in American and global politics, mass shootings in the U.S. and Australia, antisemitism, the Republican Party's internal frictions, the Bulwark's own encounters with political backlash, the impact of Trump-era policies (particularly the Doge budget cuts), and a moving update on pediatric cancer legislation. Throughout, the tone is candid and thoughtful, mixing serious analysis with wry humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mass Shootings: Brown University & Bondi Beach

Timestamp: 01:41–08:52

• Emotional Reflections:
  The show opens on a somber note as both hosts reflect on tragic mass shootings: one at Brown University and another at a Hanukkah event at Bondi Beach, Australia.
• Media Saturation & Humanity:
  Sam Stein highlights how "ubiquitous" graphic footage has become, particularly of the Bondi Beach shooting:

  “You’re just watching it as if it’s almost a video game. It’s very... unsettling, obviously.” — Sam Stein, 02:30

• Acts of Bravery:
  Bill points to footage of a bystander bravely intervening in the attack:

  “That one very brave person who seems to have charged the armed terrorist... That was impressive.” — Bill Kristol, 02:46

• The Tragedy of Recurrent Victims:
  Stein reads from a striking report about a student who survived two school shootings:

  “The idea that this person has to go through this twice is awful.” — Sam Stein, 06:00

• Antisemitism and Lack of Progress:
  Both hosts note that, despite repeated tragedies, neither gun control nor fighting antisemitism have gained enough traction:

  “It’s not like antisemitism, unfortunately, is receding here in the US either. I’m afraid so. And it’s not like gun violence is being acted against in any serious way.” — Bill Kristol, 08:13

2. Republican Party Troubles & Bulwark Coverage Fallout

Timestamp: 09:09–14:43

• RNC Chair Expresses Doom:
  Sam recounts a Bulwark article quoting new RNC Chair Joe Gruters, who openly admits looming disaster for the GOP in the midterms:

  “There is… an absolute disaster. … The chances are Republicans will go down and go down hard.” — Joe Gruters, via Sam Stein, 10:13

• Unusually Honest Assessment:
  The hosts discuss how rare and controversial it is for party officials to be so frank about electoral prospects.
• RNC’s Angry Rebuke:
  The RNC, angered by the piece, attacks The Bulwark and reporter Andrew Egger online:

  “Their Twitter account was calling anyone who quoted it a scumbag and an offense to journalism and, you know, a loser. And… the more attention to our piece, the better.” — Sam Stein, 12:53

• Reflection on Media & Criticism:
  Bill and Sam compare coping strategies for public blowback, with Sam joking about the value of taking hits online “at least once a month.”

3. Being Put on the Trump 'Naughty List'

Timestamp: 15:45–17:16

• Bulwark Reporter Adrian Carrasquillo Targeted:
  Adrian was named to a White House “naughty list” for reporting on internal Trump world tensions, notably Kristi Noem’s vulnerabilities as a potential vice presidential pick.

  “Congrats to Adrian. His offense was that he reported that Christine Noem is on thin ice.” — Sam Stein, 16:12

• Confirmation of Reporting:
  Stein affirms that Adrian’s scoop on potential VP replacements has since been substantiated by other outlets.

  “It’s fairly well known... I appreciate the recognition.” — Sam Stein, 17:11

4. Immigration, Civic Engagement, and Democratic Candidate Recruitment

Timestamp: 17:16–21:22

• Impactful Immigration Reporting:
  Adrian’s reporting is praised for deeply engaging with affected communities and not relying solely on political insiders.
• Emerging Grassroots Candidates:
  Both hosts see a parallel between today’s activism and the 2018 “wave” of nontraditional Democratic candidates, motivated by real-world impacts of Trump-era policy:

  “It feels a little like 2018 in that respect. ... There are people showing up to run who were not simply the traditional candidates.” — Bill Kristol, 19:26

• Enthusiasm as Political Currency:
  Stein observes that visible enthusiasm—evidenced by citizens volunteering to run—contrasts with the RNC’s public pessimism.

  “If enthusiasm is currency in politics… one side is running because they’re disgusted, and the other side’s leader is telling them they’re going to get clobbered.” — Sam Stein, 20:10

5. 2026 Election Forecast & “Enthusiasm Gap”

Timestamp: 21:22–23:32

• Political Forecasts:
  Bill shares his prediction that Trump’s approval rating dropping below 40% points to possible major GOP losses in 2026:

  “If it gets into the high 30s, mid-30s, God knows, it becomes a very, very big Democratic year.” — Bill Kristol, 22:23

• Warning Against Fatalism:
  Both stress uncertainty, noting that “the Senate could be in play,” countering any assumptions of electoral inevitability.

6. Indiana State Senate Rebuke of Trump

Timestamp: 23:36–27:39

• A Notable Republican Defection:
  The Indiana state senate's rejection of a pro-Trump, gerrymandering-driven measure is viewed as a rare, significant rebuke:

  “A majority of the Republicans in the Indiana state Senate voting against Trump… In a very red state… is really striking.” — Bill Kristol, 24:40

• High-Stakes Pressure:
  The episode details intense White House and party pressure—including threats of primary challenges and withdrawal of funds—and how the legislature held firm.
• Implications for GOP Discipline:
  Stein points out the irony that obscure state senators showed more independence than Republican US Senators:

  “The irony of these like random state senators that the White House couldn’t bully while there’s actual United States senators who have no spine whatsoever… should not be lost.” — Sam Stein, 27:09

7. Pediatric Cancer Legislation: A Personal & Political Story

Timestamp: 27:54–33:50

• Decade-long Coverage:
  Sam outlines his ten-year reporting journey following pediatric cancer funding legislation—from its beginnings during the Obama administration, through Republican-induced austerity and, most recently, delays under House GOP leadership.
• ‘Doge’ Budget Cuts Fallout:
  Elon Musk’s aggressive “Doge” agenda led to severe federal funding cuts, with devastating ripple effects for medical research and pediatric cancer treatment.
• Human Cost – A Moving Story:
  Sam recounts a particularly poignant advocacy effort:

  “There was this one girl… she had two weeks to live… She decided she wanted to fly from Colorado and advocate for this bill instead of staying at home and dying. … They renamed the bill after her… Three hours after Senator Hickenlooper called her, she dies. … Shortly after that, they pass this thing through the House.” — Sam Stein, 31:22

• Frustration at Political Paralysis:
  Despite broad, bipartisan support and no cost, the Senate remains one vote shy, leaving crucial legislation in limbo.

8. The Lasting Harm of Trump’s ‘Doge’ and Anti-Immigrant Policies

Timestamp: 33:50–41:14

• The Damaging Legacy of “Doge”:
  Bill and Sam lament the deep, often invisible harm caused by the Doge budget cuts—especially their chilling effect on scientific research and American academic appeal.
• Attack on Non-Native Scientists:
  Bill raises the critical question of how exclusionary policies damage American scientific progress:

  “Does Stephen Miller really think that every, all progress that we made in America in the last 30 years was from third generation and fourth and fifth generation Americans? I don’t think that’s empirically correct…” — Bill Kristol, 40:10

• Nativism as Cruelty and Idiocy:
  Bill’s memorable line on Trump-era nativism:

  “Nativism is a very unusual combination in that respect of… cruelty and idiocy.” — Bill Kristol, 41:14

9. Looking Ahead: A Crucial Election with Many Storylines

Timestamp: 41:45–43:44

• Importance of Non-Economic Issues:
  While the economy often dominates, Bill and Sam emphasize that deeper questions about American identity, immigration, and the country’s future will also shape the 2026 elections.
• Individual Races, Individual Issues:
  Sam notes the importance of local issues—meat plant closings, targeted ICE raids—not just national narratives.

Memorable Quotes

• On Growing Cynicism:
  “Everything is kind of colored to a degree by what’s happening in Gaza and the politics around that… I don’t have much confidence.” — Sam Stein, 07:56
• On Political Honesty:
  “Definition, the worst thing you could do after Washington is inadvertently telling the truth about something.” — Bill Kristol, 11:48
• On Political Attacks:
  “You become that because you’ve been through this. … Oh, you’re calling me a scumbag? Okay, yeah, I’ve been there before. Try harder.” — Sam Stein, 14:32
• On Legislative Paralysis: “It’s so ridiculous, this thing that’s unjectionable. … We spent 11 months… how many kids could have gotten some sort of combo therapy treatment in 11 months?” — Sam Stein, 33:27
• On the Damage of Nativist Policies:
  “The idiocy of it, just hurting our own country side of it, is what strikes me almost as much. … Nativism is a very unusual combination… of cruelty and idiocy.” — Bill Kristol, 40:55 & 41:14

Notable Moments & Lighthearted Exchanges

• Bill’s Lighting as a Running Joke:
  Fans at home (including Sam’s mother!) weigh in on whether Bill’s on-screen lighting is “fine from our perspective.” (43:53)
• Closing on Family:

  “My mom texted me. She’s watching live. She says Bill’s lighting is fine from our perspective.” — Sam Stein, 43:53

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment Description | Start | |------------------------------------------------------|----------| | Mass shootings & antisemitism | 01:41 | | RNC panic, Bulwark backlash | 09:09 | | Trump “Naughty List”, immigration & enthusiasm gap | 15:45 | | Local candidate recruitment wave | 17:16 | | Political prognosis, 2026 forecast | 21:22 | | Indiana Senate rebuke of Trump | 23:36 | | Pediatric cancer legislation journey | 27:54 | | The damage of Doge, science, and nativism | 33:50 | | Big-picture stakes for 2026 | 41:45 | | Lighthearted closure and viewer feedback | 43:53 |

Summary

This episode of Bulwark Takes offers a vivid, honest meditation on loss and resilience—in politics, policy, and American civic life. The hosts expertly weave the day’s grim news cycle into broader reflections on institutional rot, courage, and the difficult, often thankless work of reform. In doing so, they remind listeners of the value—and vulnerability—of truth-telling, activism, and hope, even when placed on the so-called “naughty list.”