Bulwark Takes

Episode Title: The Completely Bizarre Fight That’s Eating the Right
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: JVL (with Sarah Longwell & Will Sommer)

Episode Overview

This lively episode dives into the surreal infighting within the MAGA-aligned right-wing influencer sphere, focusing on a public social media feud between Candace Owens and Dinesh D’Souza. Hosts JVL, Sarah Longwell, and Will Sommer unravel the fight's significance, examining what it reveals about the modern right: influencer dynamics, the rise of conspiracy-laden personalities, and the generational torch-passing that’s fracturing traditional conservative media. They explore why figures like Candace Owens are simultaneously untouchable and reviled within their own camp, how this mirrors the GOP’s inability to manage Trump’s ascent, and what the future may hold as culture, conspiracy, and clickbait fuse on the American right.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Candace Owens vs. Dinesh D'Souza Twitter Feud

• Setup: JVL introduces the ongoing, "saddest" Twitter fight erupting between Candace Owens and Dinesh D’Souza, sharing Dinesh’s crass analogy and Candace’s biting comeback.

  • "It's one of the saddest things I've ever seen. These two people, they used to be such good friends... I can't comment on Candace because it's quite obviously a freak show. It's like driving on the highway and seeing a farmer having sex with a sheep. You don't want to look, but you can't look away either." — JVL quoting D'Souza (00:30)
  • Candace punches back: "Who openly admits they wouldn't look away if they watched a person having sex with a farm animal. Why is everyone in politics so sexually perverse?" — Candace Owens via JVL (01:21)

• Analysis:

  • Sarah Longwell: Observes that the fight symbolizes the “humiliation of Dinesh,” one of the first conspiracy-pushers in MAGA media, now being outmaneuvered by Owens.
    • "This is actually about Candace Owens' dominance, and she is cucking Dinesh so hard here… he knows, like, she can put an end to him anytime she wants." (03:16)
  • Dinesh’s attempts to deflect (posting “happier days” photos) come off as desperate.

2. Power Dynamics: Why is Candace Owens Untouchable?

• Sarah: Candace Owens currently holds the most sway among right-wing influencers—her critics (like Megyn Kelly) are wary to cross her.

  • "People are, like, kind of scared of her. Even though she's a raging anti-Semite and an idiot, she is now up some of the highest reaches of MAGA influencer dumb." (03:57)

• Will Sommer:

  • Describes Owens’ appeal: She is “entertaining,” “more energetic,” and “constantly willing to violate good taste.”
    • “She’s a lot more entertaining than a lot of people. She just puts out a better product… keeps being successful while doing it, and that’s built her an enormous audience.” (04:46)
  • Other right-wing influencers tread lightly, worried she could “obliterate” their followings if provoked—just as Trump used to cow his rivals.

3. MAGA Influencer Feuds as Spectacle

• JVL: Draws a parallel to the rise of Trump, noting Republicans lacked any mechanism to resist someone willing to completely break the rules.

  • "That kind of sounds like how they approached Trump in 2015." (06:01)

• Sarah: Compares these feuds to 1990s hip-hop beefs—fuel for their audience and a cynical strategy for influence.

  • "If your main metric is not: 'Is what I'm saying true or useful or additive to humanity,' but 'What’s my clout level?' They understand there's both value for eyeballs in this—because people engage in the sides like it's a sport or pop culture." (08:03)

• Will: The incentives reward drama and ruthlessness over truth or consistency.

4. The Old Guard’s Dilemma — Megyn Kelly, Tucker, et al.

• Will: Classic conservative pundits (Megyn Kelly, Laura Ingraham) are visibly uncomfortable but refuse to challenge the new guard—out of self-preservation.
  • "Megyn Kelly has taken a similar approach… not going to look into [Nick Fuentes] more… She used to take shots at Candace too. Now she's saying, 'That person's off-limits to me.'" (10:37)
• JVL: Old-school Republicans had no preparation for influencers like Candace who mix reality TV, culture, and “prophecies” into their message.

5. Owens’ “Dream Prophecy” About Charlie Kirk (12:43–14:19)

• JVL (plays a clip): Candace claims to have received a dream “prophecy” from Charlie Kirk’s spirit, asserting he was betrayed and that the truth would come out with “international consequences.”
  • "Had a vivid dream this weekend and Charlie came to me and told me he was betrayed... it's going to have international consequences. Take that to the bank. Quote me on that." — Candace Owens (12:43)
• Sarah: Mocks the embrace of superstition; points out old media types like Kelly have no answer to “I received a message from the great beyond.”
  • “Tucker Carlson’s wife does not know how to know when a bad guy’s there. There’s one right next to you. He’s in the house.” (14:19)

6. The “Red-Pilled” Era: Culture, Conspiracy, & Celebrity

• Sarah: Explains how modern right-wing influencers blend culture, politics, and conspiracies, making them more akin to pop culture figures than politicians.
  • "It has become almost just like... I don't even know that it's right wing. The red-pilled phenomenon is so pernicious. It's a mix of culture and politics that's kind of culture first with reality TV. Freak show." (18:16)
• Will: Candace Owens mixes lifestyle content, celebrity gossip, and then injects politics, which brings in diverse, mainstream audiences.
  • “Part of her appeal is that it’s not just traditional Republican talking points. She does a lot of entertainment and gossip coverage—those are real gateways.” (17:22)

7. Is There a Ceiling for Candace Owens?

• Will: It's hard to see one; her success is not strictly tied to “politics” but a blend of fringe culture and spectacle—making her reach particularly broad and resilient.
  • “I think it’s at the level of tens of millions of YouTube views per video.” (17:55)
• Sarah: In focus groups, Owens is often named as a desirable presidential candidate, especially among younger women who like her for her celebrity/entertainment-political mix.
  • “She has a lot of young women as an audience… it has become almost just like, I don't even know that it's right wing.” (18:16)

8. Anti-Vax, Wellness & “Red-Pill” Lifestyle

• Will: Notes the overlap between anti-vaccine influencers, lifestyle gurus, and right-wing politics—driven by generalized anti-institutional sentiment, not just party loyalty.
  • “It’s kind of this like political lifestyle... right-wing coded but not necessarily traditional politics.” (19:26)

9. Final Thoughts: The Unsustainable but Entrenched Freak Show

• Sarah: The influencer wars that look senseless or unstable are, in fact, the future of the right. Old-guard gatekeepers aren’t coming back.
• JVL: “In 2032, that sort of thinking is going to make her president. Guys, we're going to be on the Candace Owens watch, I have a feeling, for a good long time.” (20:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dinesh D’Souza’s analogy:
  "It's like driving on the highway and seeing a farmer having sex with a sheep. You don't want to look, but you can't look away either." — (00:30)

• Candace Owens’ clapback:
  "Why is everyone in politics so sexually perverse?" — (01:21)

• Sarah on old vs. new right:
  "There’s these influencers—MAGA and red-pilled—they’re like siblings. The old guard are distant cousins who still come to the family reunion to gawk at the famous ones. But they're not going anywhere." — (15:24)

• Will on influencer ruthlessness:
  "She just has a way of obliterating people. People have come at her before... and Candace blew most of her empire up. So, it’s a brutal world." — (06:30)

• Sarah, on the genius of Candace’s tactics:
  "Nobody else thought of saying 'Charlie Kirk's ghost visited me.' That’s entrepreneurial in a way I couldn’t even imagine." — (20:03)

• JVL’s closing warning:
  “In 2032, that sort of thinking is going to make her president.” — (20:48)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:30 — Introduction of the Candace Owens and Dinesh D’Souza feud
• 01:21 — Candace’s response and escalation
• 02:32 — Why Owens is dominating the right-wing influencer space
• 04:46 — Will Sommer on Owens’ unique power and appeal
• 05:44 — The MAGA influencer ecosystem: humiliation & dominance
• 06:30 — Parallels to Trump-era GOP capitulation
• 08:03 — Feuds as spectacle, “90s rap beef” analogy
• 10:37 — Old guard panic: Megyn Kelly & Nick Fuentes
• 12:43 — Candace Owens’ “dream prophecy” clip
• 14:19 — Supernatural claims & right-wing media
• 17:22 — Owens’ mix of lifestyle and politics, youth appeal
• 18:16 — Focus group insights: Young women want Owens for president
• 19:26 — Anti-vax, lifestyle, and “red-pilled” convergence
• 20:03 — Candace’s unique entrepreneurial mentality
• 20:48 — Closing warning: Owens’ future influence

Episode Tone & Conclusion

The discussion is wry, blunt, and exasperated, highlighting the absurdity and danger in the influencer-driven direction of today's American right:

• Humor and sarcasm permeate the episode, as the hosts mock both the players (Owens, D’Souza) and their methods.
• Underlying seriousness emerges, though, as they point out the lack of safeguards, the surrender of old media to newer, more radical personalities, and the role of spectacle over substance.

Best for listeners who want to understand why right-wing political feuds are more than just entertainment—they're a window into who holds the power, and what ideas and personalities are winning among conservative Americans today.