The Only NORMAL Democrat Is Showing How To WIN (W/ Gov. Jared Polis)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – “The Only NORMAL Democrat Is Showing How To WIN (W/ Gov. Jared Polis)”

Release Date: February 24, 2025

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller from The Bulwark engages in a candid and insightful conversation with Governor Jared Polis of Colorado. The discussion delves into governance, policy reforms, economic strategies, social issues, and the future of the Democratic Party. Through a dynamic exchange, both speakers explore how principled leadership and pragmatic solutions can pave the way for political success and societal prosperity.

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1. Introduction of Guests (Heath Mayo, 01:00)

The episode begins with Heath Mayo introducing Governor Jared Polis and Tim Miller. Heath highlights Polis as a “solutions-driven governor” known for his ability to collaborate across party lines to tackle Colorado’s affordability crisis. Polis’s background as a business entrepreneur, education leader, and Congressman is emphasized, showcasing his multifaceted approach to governance.

Notable Quote:

"I think Governor Polis is really a solutions driven governor who has really shown the ability to work with anybody and everybody in his state who is willing to tackle the affordability crisis across a number of metrics."
— Heath Mayo [01:00]

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2. Opening Banter and Setting the Tone (03:21 – 04:51)

Tim Miller opens with light-hearted banter about incorporating pyrotechnics in future events and humorously suggests exchanging Polis for another politician. This sets a relaxed atmosphere for the ensuing serious discussions.

Notable Quote:

"Next year we're going to make this happen. It's my home state, Governor. Not anymore. I'm in Louisiana now."
— Tim Miller [03:21]

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3. Alignment on Principles and Policy Overlap (04:11 – 06:17)

Miller references Heath's 15 principles, urging Polis to identify areas of alignment. Polis acknowledges the abundance of principles and emphasizes key values such as integrity, character, virtue, and the importance of free and functioning markets.

Notable Quotes:

"Integrity, character, and virtue matters. That might be sort of a sad wish as opposed to kind of a value..."
— Jared Polis [05:28]

"Free and functioning markets deliver prosperity. I mean, absolutely. And I think that's been forgotten."
— Jared Polis [05:42]

Miller and Polis discover significant policy overlap, particularly in areas like free markets and regulatory reforms, highlighting their shared commitment to economic freedom and efficiency.

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4. Tax and Housing Reforms in Colorado (06:42 – 08:59)

The conversation shifts to Colorado’s tax policies and housing initiatives under Polis’s administration. Polis details substantial income tax reductions, from 4.63% to 4.25%, and efforts to cut property taxes and cap future increases.

Notable Quote:

"Our income tax rate was 4.63%. We cut it at the ballot box to 4.5, we cut at the ballot box to 4.4, and then we cut it through the legislature to 4.25%."
— Jared Polis [08:46]

On housing, Polis discusses innovative approaches to increasing supply, such as modular homes and faith-based land initiatives, aiming to reduce Denver’s high rent and housing costs.

Notable Quote:

"We have artificial government imposed constraints on supply. That is a single reason why a home would cost a lot more than its replacement value."
— Jared Polis [08:40]

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5. Environmental and Regulatory Reforms (05:00 – 07:38)

Polis addresses the need for EPA and NEPA reforms, emphasizing that these regulatory bodies require updates to better serve economic and environmental goals. He recounts eliminating 208 outdated executive orders to streamline government operations.

Notable Quote:

"We got rid of 208 old executive orders... vast majority over the last 10, 20 years."
— Jared Polis [07:06]

Polis urges the legislature to follow suit in reviewing and eliminating inefficient laws, advocating for a government that facilitates rather than hinders economic growth.

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6. Social Issues and Women's Sports Policy (09:07 – 12:03)

The discussion turns to social issues, particularly the contentious topic of women's sports and gender participation. Polis shares a personal anecdote about his children’s experiences, highlighting the importance of fairness and participation without compromising integrity in sports.

Notable Quote:

"We want fairness and we want to provide ways people can participate."
— Jared Polis [11:23]

Polis emphasizes rational discourse and the need to focus on substantive issues like the cost of living rather than peripheral controversies.

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7. Current Administration’s Policies and Challenges (12:03 – 18:28)

Polis critiques the current administration’s handling of tariffs and trade policies, expressing concerns over economic uncertainty and potential recession risks due to prolonged trade tensions.

Notable Quote:

"Whatever is happening here, please try to wrap this up in the next few months because investment is frozen. Nobody can plan. The uncertainty is the enemy of prosperity."
— Jared Polis [13:25]

He also discusses the impact of government cuts on essential services in Colorado, such as fire prevention and park management, advocating for thoughtful and efficient government operations.

Notable Quote:

"They actually laid off a lot of the folks involved with fire prevention, park management in Colorado, which are incredibly important."
— Jared Polis [13:56]

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8. Government Efficiency and Fiscal Responsibility (18:28 – 20:54)

Polis highlights the necessity of fiscal responsibility, supporting a balanced budget and expressing the need for a balanced budget amendment to the U.S. Constitution. He underscores the importance of evaluating government programs for necessity and efficiency.

Notable Quote:

"For every government program, you should ask really two questions. First is, should we even be doing this?"
— Jared Polis [15:31]

Polis advocates for strategic budgeting to prevent waste and ensure that government initiatives are both effective and economically viable.

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9. Health Policies and Future Collaborations (21:10 – 22:39)

The conversation shifts to health policies, where Polis discusses his collaboration with RFK III on health and prevention initiatives. He expresses enthusiasm for reducing chronic diseases and enhancing public health in Colorado.

Notable Quote:

"Colorado is a healthy state. We have one of the lowest obesity rates, healthy diet, we get one of the longest lifespans."
— Jared Polis [21:20]

Polis also addresses concerns about pandemic preparedness, reaffirming the importance of scientific research and effective health policies.

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10. The Democratic Party and Future Strategies (23:41 – 27:55)

Miller probes Polis on how the Democratic Party can regain appeal among working-class voters and avoid being perceived as the establishment. Polis responds by emphasizing the importance of offering viable economic alternatives and embracing free trade, reflecting on past Democratic successes in fostering economic growth.

Notable Quote:

"We need to offer the alternative. And the Democrats have not always been, you know, pure on these issues."
— Jared Polis [24:13]

Polis outlines Colorado’s initiatives, such as free universal preschool and tax reductions, as models that focus on addressing constituents’ immediate needs while promoting long-term economic prosperity.

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11. Reflections on COVID-19 Management (26:54 – 28:00)

Polis reflects on Colorado’s COVID-19 response, advocating for a balanced approach that encouraged mask-wearing without imposing mandates, fostering individual agency in health decisions.

Notable Quote:

"We encourage, but we didn't have, we said the mandates didn't make sense."
— Jared Polis [27:23]

He underscores the importance of being prepared for future health crises by maintaining robust research and public health infrastructures.

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12. Nominating Future Democratic Leaders (28:00 – 29:20)

In the final segment, Miller invites Polis to nominate other Democrats for future events. Polis suggests figures like Abigail Spanberger and expresses a desire for inclusive and bipartisan participation to strengthen the party’s foundation.

Notable Quote:

"This is not partisan. We should have a lot of great folks."
— Jared Polis [28:47]

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a mutual appreciation for Polis’s leadership and optimism. Miller’s closing remarks commend Polis as “the only NORMAL Democrat” and express hope that more leaders like him will emerge to foster bipartisan cooperation and effective governance.

Notable Quote:

"That's my man. It's Governor Jared Polis, everybody. If only we had 50 like him, we'd be in better shape."
— Tim Miller [29:20]

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Key Takeaways:

• Principled Leadership: Polis exemplifies a pragmatic and solutions-oriented approach, focusing on economic growth, regulatory efficiency, and social fairness.

• Economic Reforms: Significant tax cuts and housing initiatives in Colorado aim to enhance affordability and stimulate the local economy.

• Government Efficiency: Emphasis on eliminating outdated executive orders and promoting fiscal responsibility to ensure effective governance.

• Health and Social Policies: Commitment to public health, chronic disease prevention, and inclusive social policies while maintaining individual agency.

• Democratic Strategy: Advocating for free trade, balanced budgets, and inclusive leadership to regain appeal among diverse voter bases.

This episode offers a comprehensive look into Governor Jared Polis's strategies for winning through pragmatic governance and principled leadership, providing valuable insights for Democrats and political enthusiasts alike.

Transcript

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[Heath Mayo]

It is my privilege to introduce our next featured guest who is his first principal's first summit, but hopefully not his last. It's an honor to have him here. In conversation with him today will be Mr. Tim Miller from the Bulwark. You heard him yesterday. He is back to have a conversation with Colorado's Governor Jared Polis. Yes, please. You know we've been talking this conference about thinking outside of the box, being principled, pushing back against, having the courage to push back even against those against your own party. I think Governor Polis is really a solutions driven governor who has really shown the ability to work with anybody and everybody in his state who is willing to tackle the affordability crisis across a number of metrics. Prior to being governor, Mr. Polos started a number of businesses and then became an education leader in the state where he served on the State Board of Education. As serving on the state Board of Education, he worked to obviously improve education. He raised teacher pay and helped reduce class sizes for students. He then went on to serve as the Congressman from the 2nd congressional district of Colorado. In Congress as governor has tackled a number of issues to reduce the cost of living in Colorado. One of them is housing. A lot of innovative ideas that he's brought to bear in the housing market there to actually reduce. I didn't even know it was possible. I was talking to him Backstage. Reduce rents in Denver by increasing supply, allowing builders to build modular homes using single staircase layouts that are basically more efficient. And even I read, pairing with faith based initiatives to open up their land so that you can build housing there as well to increase supply. And I think he or some of them in the state call it using God's backyard to reduce the cost of housing. So that's pretty good. But health care, you name it. He's an outside the box thinker and we're delighted to have him. So without further ado, please welcome to the stage Tim Miller and Governor Jared Polis.

[Tim Miller]

What's up, man? Thank you, buddy. What's happening, everybody? As much as I like Heath's intro, I told him next year I want pyrotechnics like cpac. That's the only thing we'll steal from them. You know, just something with a little bit of a little heat. Get us going in the morning. How you doing, Governor? Good to see you again.

[Jared Polis]

I was told there'd be pyrotechnics. I'm a little disappointed, frankly.

[Tim Miller]

Well, this is your first one. Next year we're going to make this happen. It's my home state, Governor. Not anymore. I'm in Louisiana now. I'd like to trade him for Jeff Landry, but I don't think that's going to happen, unfortunately, unless you're interested. Are you interested in moving to Louisville?

[Jared Polis]

You know, we're interested in welcoming you back to Colorado.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. You're gonna get me in trouble with my mother. All right. I gave you some homework before we got here because I believe you're the only elected Democrat here. Is that right? Was there any other elected Democrats? We had some candidates, maybe.

[Jared Polis]

Sadly, there's not as many elected Democrats anymore.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Okay. It's hard to choose from. So I think you're the only one here. And so the homework I gave you was to look at Heath's 15 principles, or maybe there are 16. We don't know. And see, you know, kind of where you think our alignment. Where are we starting?

[Jared Polis]

Well, first, I mean.

[Tim Miller]

And you did your homework. You got here.

[Jared Polis]

Well, I had. Well, there's some. That's part of the problem. There's too many of them. And you guys gotta edit it a.

[Tim Miller]

Little bit, cut them down a little.

[Jared Polis]

They're. They're. By the way, how. How great it would be if the folks here were the governing coalition of our country and how proud we would be as a nation to create prosperity and peace in the world would be nice someday. Someday. You'll be back.

[Tim Miller]

We could argue about a couple things. You know, there's still.

[Jared Polis]

That was. We need EPA reform. My goodness. So epa, did you say?

[Tim Miller]

We might be on the same page.

[Jared Polis]

And nepa. We need NEPA reform, too. I mean, these are things where we hope the Trump administration gets it right.

[Tim Miller]

We'll get to that.

[Jared Polis]

We will. So there's. There's too many. And they're all good, they're all wonderful. I look through them, I mean, and we can go through them. But integrity, character, and virtue matters. That might be sort of a sad wish as opposed to kind of a value, because to the voters, they don't. Now, this is important because this is a value. Every person has dignity, quality, and worth.

[Tim Miller]

Yes.

[Jared Polis]

Truth is important. I think you can combine that with. No one's entitled to their own facts. So, I mean, look, I mean, somehow Martin Luther did 95 theses. But generally speaking in marketing and in politics, you got to get it to three or four to kind of resonate, you know, And I think there's ways to kind of. Without sacrificing the value piece, kind of get this down to the three or four that you can put on a little card and you can put on a sign, and that can mean something to people. But I'm excited by them all. You know, free and functioning markets deliver prosperity. I mean, absolutely. And I think that's been forgotten. I just heard the tail end of the last discussion. The danger of the tariffs and taxes on shutting down transactions between two people who are inherently better off because they make a transaction would be devastating not only to the global economy, but right here at home in our backyard.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, let's. And we also have a lot of policy overlap. You know, us former US Exiled Republicans and you, you know, free markets, free people. Let's talk a little bit about what you've been doing in Colorado before. We might have to argue a little bit about politics, but our agreement is more about policy. And you've done, I mean, regulatory reforms. You did the chainsaw before. It was cool, I think, and cutting some red tape, or before, it was not cool, I guess would be a better way to put it.

[Jared Polis]

We got rid of 208 old executive orders. Now, here is. So I had been working on this, by the way. You know, the proper way is you. You work on things and you plan them. You don't just go by the seat of your hands. So it took us about six months to figure out, you know, we were going to repeal these 208 orders. And then, unfortunately, because of the time. And it was during, after the election, people, you know, then thought somehow we got the idea from Doge. But I say, no, no, they got the idea from us.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Jared Polis]

We started earlier, but yeah, as a, as an executive, I can get. And I got rid of executive orders dated back to 1920 that were still in effect in our state, vast majority over the last 10, 20 years. So that was exciting. And I've challenged our legislature to do the same, to go through our rules, because again, unlike certain other executives, I don't think I have the power to single handedly nullify laws. So I challenged our legislature to go back and look at all of the laws that require different rules. Because sometimes an executive is required by a law to do rules and go back and eliminate some of that as well.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. And as Heath mentioned, we're like building houses. That's exciting. You know, market based reporting.

[Jared Polis]

Get government out of the way. You know, the market and the price of housing is a function of supply and demand. The fact that demand is high in Colorado is wonderful. People want to live there, you want to live there. It's great. You all move out there. But we have artificial government imposed constraints on supply. That is a single reason why a home would cost a lot more than its replacement value, which they do in average home price in Denver is about 600,000, which is. Which is high. I mean, it's not California high, but it's high. And so we have basically allowed more housing to be built, whether it's townhomes, whether it's multifamily housing, the kinds of inherently more affordable housing, which ironically is often the most difficult kind of housing to get past your local planning board. The single family homes they let you build. But the more affordable kinds of homes are actually harder to approve. So we've made a lot of progress in that. We continue that work.

[Tim Miller]

You cut taxes?

[Jared Polis]

We did.

[Tim Miller]

When I was trying to warm up all the concerns When I began, Governor.

[Jared Polis]

Our income tax rate was 4.63%. We cut it at the ballot box to 4.5, we cut at the ballot box to 4.4, and then we cut it through the legislature to 4.25%. So that's our income tax.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. And you're not needlessly mean to transgender people or rejecting people from coming to your state?

[Jared Polis]

No. This is where we say, I like this. It's what every person has, dignity, quality, and worth that that needs to stay there. I mean, we value everybody based on the content of their character, their contributions, and who they are and you know there's good and bad people of all kinds.

[Tim Miller]

You were, that's, there's no doubt about that. There's some bad gays out there. Not on this stage, but they exist. I could think of a couple. Speaking of that you were in the room yesterday with was it yesterday or two days ago now where the governor of Maine, your colleague was kind getting into it with the president. Janet Mills, what'd you think? What'd you make of that exchange?

[Jared Polis]

Well, I don't, you know, none of us had the context going in because this was until it was elevated by the president and the governor it was an obscure thing going on with Maine. So we didn't really know what was going on at the time but apparently it has to do with following the guidance around women's sports. And I mean women's sports are you know, obviously something like in any sports we want to prevent cheating. I mean everybody wants to prevent cheating in sports. You know and of course steroids, hormones, they can all be used for cheating and that has no place in sports. And of course, you know, at the same time we want people to be able to participate. It's a really, it's a little bit. So you know my, we try, we have discussions around our dinner table. I have a 10 year old daughter and a 13 year old son and we were talking about this should, you know, where's the line? How do you make sure that you don't have boys sort of cheating to play in girls sports? And my daughter said I don't understand. We beat the boys.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Jared Polis]

And she did. They had basketball, you know, it was a girls basketball team and they beat the boys basketball team.

[Tim Miller]

I know my daughter beat her boy cousin in Colorado in basketball and that caused a meltdown over Christmas. So we're not going to talk about it. Hopefully Louie's not listening. The other thing is just I think the capriciousness like regards what you think about like where the line is when it comes to youth sports and gender precious of how Trump is acting. Right. About all this stuff.

[Jared Polis]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Jared Polis]

I mean you just discuss it in a rational way. Of course boys shouldn't be in girls sports. I mean it's obvious has nothing to.

[Tim Miller]

Do with cutting Medicaid from people in Lewiston.

[Jared Polis]

Right. And it has nothing to do with people who were, you know, born of indeterminate or intermediate genders and where they play. I mean, you know, it's, you want fairness in sports but you want participation in sports. But it's like it's kind Of, I think those are broad American values. You want fairness and you want to provide ways people can participate. But, yeah, very little of that has anything to do with, like, the cost of living and the real issues that matter. I mean, I think after talking to Janet Mills, after she said there's like one kid this even affects in their whole state.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Did you get any other. I'm curious if you got any clarity.

[Jared Polis]

Obviously, on a human level, we gotta feel bad for that kid that they're in the center of all this stuff. I mean, my goodness.

[Tim Miller]

You know, so you were behind the scenes. You had to have dinner with Donald Trump last night. I was at the gay bar. So we'll see. You guys can decide who had a more enjoyable evening. But I'm just like, do you get any clarity from the White House on, you know, the kind of random government workers that are being fired in your state, whether you're going to have any funding for.

[Jared Polis]

There's no clarity from this. So that in my limited time, what I talked about, and I know you came off a conversation of tariffs, like you, I believe in free trade and open markets and trade is inherently good.

[Tim Miller]

You can see why he's my favorite Democrat there. We got one clap here, one clapper. Me and Jared are the only ones left.

[Jared Polis]

But my, my concern was, and obviously we all, you know, we're hopeful that, that that's. The president somehow has this master negotiating strategy. We're going to wind up with left tariffs rather than more. But, you know, I'm not holding my breath, but I did say, look, I mean, if you want, if there's less. Less tariffs, I'll be the first to praise that. But I said, whatever is happening here, please try to wrap this up in the next few months because investment is frozen. Nobody can plan. The uncertainty is the enemy of prosperity and in the business. So whatever level we're going to wind up at, we've got to figure this out for Your own benefit, Mr. President, in the next few months. Because if this goes on for four years, the uncertainty alone will cause a recession.

[Tim Miller]

We're not rooting for a recession. Right?

[Jared Polis]

No, no, no. As I said, I really, I hope that somehow, if we come out of this with. I'm not holding my breath, but less, less tariffs, less restrictions on trade, that would be wonderful.

[Tim Miller]

I was just speaking for myself. I know you're good. I'm the devil on your shoulder. What about the other uncertainty with regards to the cuts? You had some controversy in your state about, I guess what Forest rangers got fired and who the hell knows? There are government workers that are in every state. Did you get any conversations about that?

[Jared Polis]

As far as we can tell, there's no rhyme or reason to the cuts. Now, obviously, we want things that are wasteful to be cut. But an example of this sort of wrecking ball approach was they actually laid off a lot of the folks involved with fire prevention, park management in Colorado, which are incredibly important. So not the firefighters themselves, but the road maintenance, the road maintenance, how you get the fires to fight them, forest management. So these are folks that are, in our view, and I think the view of any rational government on the left or right, small government, big government. I mean, this is like a core, core function thing. Right. So we hope that they reverse that. No idea if they will.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. I saw a tweet as I was coming in, a rare good one from Jessica Riedel, who's a friend, a friend of Principals first, and she wrote this. If Mitch Daniels was running Doge, I think we could replace his name with yours here. If Jared Polis was running Doge, they'd have already begun implementing GAOREX to fix the billions in payment errors, consolidating duplicative programs, auditing thousands of programs for efficiencies legally, competently, and with minimal disruption. That's real money. That's not what they're doing.

[Jared Polis]

That's right. For every government program, you should ask really two questions. First is, should we even be doing this? And there's absolutely things that are being done that are counterproductive that we should not do at every level of government. The second is, okay, we should do this. How can we do it more efficiently? Let's create a more efficient way of doing it. It's not just sort of like, who saw destroy it all. Like, okay, you know, should we be doing it? And if we should be doing it, how do we do it more efficiently?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Jared Polis]

So, yes, Mitch Daniels, absolutely. Would have been wonderful.

[Tim Miller]

Would have been much better. But so we're. But we are where we are. And so I saw you on one of the Sunday shows over the weekend, and you seem to, like, give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe they will land in a place where they are going to actually care about efficiency. And I guess maybe that was one area where we part ways, a rare area where we part ways. Because I don't think that they have any intention to do anything.

[Jared Polis]

You know, again, let's give them the space to see if they hoist themself on their own petard here. Right. Like with trade as I said, if somehow this leads. Somehow this leads to, like, lower tariffs and more free trade. That's wonderful. Yeah, that's wonderful.

[Tim Miller]

Do you think that's gonna happen?

[Jared Polis]

I'm an eternal optimist.

[Tim Miller]

You are an optimist. What about. I mean, what about when it comes to the Doge and there's gotta be. Do you have any. You still have even a hint of hope that this could end positively.

[Jared Polis]

Well, I don't have much visibility into what's going on. Right. I mean, does anybody.

[Tim Miller]

You're the governor of the state.

[Jared Polis]

It's not.

[Tim Miller]

You know, there are people in your state that are losing their jobs.

[Jared Polis]

They're going to tear stuff down. And again, if there are things that we don't need to do, let's stop doing them. And then the question on if there's things that we agree we should do, how do we do it more efficiently? Doge doesn't seem to be answering that at this point. It seems to just be, you know, stopping the current way. Fine. But then what replaces it is actually turns out to be very important.

[Tim Miller]

I see that you're hopeful and optimistic.

[Jared Polis]

There's another one. I'm going to get rid of the penny. I'm all for that. To get rid of the penny. That's great.

[Tim Miller]

I'm with you on the penny.

[Jared Polis]

Taxpayers, a couple hundred million dollars a year, environmental costs, the mining of zinc and copper.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Poor people at the penny plant, though. It's tough.

[Jared Polis]

Oh, you know, we'll still make pennies for collectors. Some of those are in Denver, by the way. You know, we have the Denver Mint, but we still make nickels and dimes and quarters.

[Tim Miller]

I had to go there as a kid. It was a really boring field trip.

[Jared Polis]

We can't use the force of government to preserve horse and buggy manufacturers once the car's invented.

[Tim Miller]

That's a good point. I'm with you on that. So here's the thing, though. You're optimistic. You've heard some things that might sound nice that you could imagine you agree with. Have they actually done anything that materially would improve the welfare of a person in Colorado so far? I mean, it's only been a month. They being the Fed, Trump and Elon, has there been anything that they've done that you're like, okay, Coloradans are gonna benefit from this.

[Jared Polis]

What have they done so far?

[Tim Miller]

I mean, it's mostly a thousand executive orders. They fired a lot of people. They renamed some things.

[Jared Polis]

Yeah. A lot of them were held up in court. I mean, I can't think of one right now.

[Tim Miller]

Me neither. That's discouraging, though.

[Jared Polis]

I'm hopeful, Tim, on zoning reform and permitting reform, if they get rid of the penny. But no, it's all if. If they do this. If they do this. If they do this. But no, I mean, nothing makes Colorado more prosperous that they've done yet or America more prosperous, in my opinion. In fact, to the contrary, the threat of the tariffs obviously is a major drag on our economy.

[Tim Miller]

Well, that's not good. If the only thing I can think.

[Jared Polis]

Of is those are not all threats at this point. Aren't some of them with China? They're actually in force, right? Yeah. The Canada and Mexico ones, thank God, are still a threat. I hope they go, that threat goes away. But some of those are actually already been implemented, so they're already causing harm.

[Tim Miller]

That's a good reminder that the China once been enforced. All right. They've renamed the Gulf, though, so we have a new Gulf, the Gulf of Trump. And so I just thought. I was wondering if we could spitball if we. You want to rename anything. Like, you only got two years left in Colorado. You've updated a few things. I'm from Littleton. That's kind of like a beta name. Littleton. I was thinking maybe we could rename that after, like, maybe me or Nikola Jokic.

[Jared Polis]

Yeah, somebody like that.

[Tim Miller]

Millerton. Jokichton. Is there any other name?

[Jared Polis]

Yokichten would be fun. I think Coloradans would go for that. I think that'd be awesome.

[Tim Miller]

Do you have any other renaming ideas?

[Jared Polis]

Well, you know, I tweeted on this, but when the, you know, the whole trinity in the Gulf of Mexico, I said we could do a compromise. We have a place, you know, well, in Colorado. Casa Bonita. I said we should call it the Gulf of Casa Bonita because it's a little bit American, a little bit Mexican. It's good for business.

[Tim Miller]

You could sell me on that. We could maybe sell the naming rights also.

[Jared Polis]

You could auction them off. That's what those should be doing, auctioning.

[Tim Miller]

Off the naming rights.

[Jared Polis]

Close the national deficit.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, well, I'm interested.

[Jared Polis]

You hit on something. Why not? Not that, but let's auction off some other naming rights. Maybe we should do that in Colorado, too. Auction off the naming rights for one of our towns or something.

[Tim Miller]

I have no opt for it. Maybe in Lauren Boebert's district. If we're going to have to pick a place to auction off, I would probably start there. You mentioned the debt and the deficit. This is another thing I think that is important and I think you would be a good messenger on this because some other Democrats don't care about this. But they don't have any plans actually to cut the debt or deficit.

[Jared Polis]

No. And we all look what Trump, what the President said during the campaign, the deficit would go up substantially. And all this talk of doge. And again, I hope they succeed. But this is like this much. I mean, you know, whether it's USAID and these other things, it's not.

[Tim Miller]

We've got 5 trillion in tax cuts.

[Jared Polis]

It's not any material way. Yeah. Closing the deficit. So we, you know, you know, I support in Colorado we balance our budget every year. I think we need a balanced budget amendment to the U.S. constitution. And you know, not because it's good policy, but because it's better than the alternative of not having one, as we've learned. So I think we should have it.

[Tim Miller]

I asked several people what I should ask you and everybody demanded that I ask you about rfk. So here we are. You had some nice things to say about rfk. He's just an okay. He's okay for me. He's bad to quite bad, I would say. But you, well, that's pretty good for.

[Jared Polis]

The new administration, isn't it? I guess the bad to quite bad is like top of the.

[Tim Miller]

What do you see? And what was it about RFK that gave you a little interest, that peaked your interest?

[Jared Polis]

Well, I think he's interested in, well, he is interested in health and prevention and reducing chronic disease. And that excites me. Colorado is a healthy state. We have one of the lowest obesity rates, healthy diet, we get one of the longest lifespans. So I'm excited to work with him, saw him yesterday and talked to him and I think there's a lot of ways we can work together. And to be clear, and it's a shame I have to say this every time, but of course I don't believe in the nutty anti science stuff. I'm pro vaccine, all that. And he said that he won't get in the way of that. So hopefully that'll be you.

[Tim Miller]

Take him with his word. We come back to our fundamental disagreement. You're a turtle. Optimism. Yeah. I don't know, I'm not feeling that good about that. What about the other thing about making America healthy again? That gets me a little crossways, I think with rfk, which is I don't know how cutting all research to any infectious disease is in the future is a very good idea. I think that's kind of A bad idea. As far as on the health ledger.

[Jared Polis]

We need more research. Absolutely.

[Tim Miller]

But I mean, what do you like, do you feel like he's, he's serious about that, though? I mean, they're already, we're already seeing real ramifications to, like, programs getting cut. Right.

[Jared Polis]

Look, I mean, you look at the life saving research that's been done in our generation, the previous generation. We all have healthier, longer lives and we need, we need more research.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, I want to, I'm just doing my best to just poke your optimism here. I'm trying to do it like you're like an optimism balloon. And I'm just going to keep pinning until I find a spot where we can let the air out. What are you the most worried about.

[Jared Polis]

It for this guy? I mean, we're just saying, like, we hope we are. Well, you know, best wishes for the country here. I mean, he's got to get something right out of the 20 or 30 things he's.

[Tim Miller]

Do you think, are we sure?

[Jared Polis]

I hope so.

[Tim Miller]

Broken clocks. What, what worries you? And we've mentioned the tariffs. What else worries you the most? You know, like, if he called you tomorrow, he's like, we had a great dinner. You seem like the only Democrat that is normal, you know, and he gives you a buzz and he's like, jared, what do you think I should, what do you think I should not do? What would you stop him from doing besides the tariffs? We mentioned the tariffs.

[Jared Polis]

I'm obviously very concerned about abandoning our European allies and the fight for freedom and democracy. Again, don't know where that's headed, but very concerning remarks about the conflict. We cannot embolden Putin on the world stage, and I'm worried about that.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Let's talk about the Dems for a minute. And just going forward, I'm wondering what, how you think the Democrats can try to recapture the mantle of appealing to working people, to people that don't really like the status quo, you know, to the types of people that RFK appeal to. Let's just be honest. Like, what are some ways that you think the party can kind of not have to, you know, sort of be the establishment? Right. Like, how can the party embrace being reformed?

[Jared Polis]

Well, I'd like, first of all, I think these principles that you have are a very good underpinning. Again, there's too many of them, but they're promising and really talking about prosperity, abundance, economy. I mean, you know, we are deeply concerned that this president's economic agenda could lead to less prosperity rather than more if he does what he's saying he's going to do. And I think we need to offer the alternative. And the Democrats have not always been, you know, pure on these issues. You know, they've been pro trade. President Obama and President Clinton, you know, led us into many more trade agreements, brought down tariffs, brought down non tariff barriers to trade. We've, you know, large significant pro growth tax policies. But you know, these are, these are things that we should lean into because it makes a difference for people.

[Tim Miller]

The Democrats did quite poorly in most blue states, like not swing states this past year. Lost a lot of ground in the northeast and the West. Two places where the Democrats lost a little ground but not too much was Utah and Colorado. I'm curious, is it just, is it just luck and the fact that there are a lot of Mormons there, you think? Or was there something that Mormons. Hell yeah. Or is there something that you did that you think might be worth looking at if you're a governor of an east coast state?

[Jared Polis]

I mean, just trying to meet the needs of Colorado. So we've been focused on, we talked about reducing taxes, removing barriers to housing. We also eliminated sales tax on a number of products. We implemented free universal preschool, which very big priority for us, preparing all kids for success, you know, and it prepares kids for success. The long term. Longitudinal studies show that. And I love your, you know, your data point, that data is important. It also saves families, you know, $6,000 a year in the here and now, four year olds preschools, very expensive. So really just trying to meet the needs of folks where they're at and grow our economy and prosperity.

[Tim Miller]

So do you not see that happening in the coastal states? Like what are you doing that they're not doing in California and New York? I mean, The Democrats lost 10 points in New York, like a ton. It was not just on the margins. Right.

[Jared Polis]

It was not just. I'm not an expert in coastal politics, so I can't.

[Tim Miller]

You got a sense.

[Jared Polis]

I can't say all the factors. I mean, I can't. I could talk more about what we did do. Right. So I mean we also, in addition to cutting income tax, we cut property taxes too. And we capped any future property tax increases of 5%. So, you know, really just trying to address people's costs and concerns. We've had a thriving economy in Colorado and that's kind of in fact what led to the run up in housing prices. Right. Along with the artificial constraints on supply that we're trying to systemically disassemble and allow more housing to be built.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Do you look back at Covid and feel like that, you know, there's like a lengthy backlash to kind of how that was, how that was managed at all. How do you. How do you reflect back on Covid? Because as we first met, actually, because I watched your press conference around. During COVID and it was around mask mandates, and you said you had some reporters were giving you trouble, and you were like, I sat and read the studies, and I read the studies, and I decided that we didn't need. We should.

[Jared Polis]

If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask. I mean, please. I encourage you. Right? It's like. Right. We encourage. But we didn't have. We said the mandates didn't make sense, and we did. We just looked at all the data and the studies, and people are perfectly able to be agents in determining their appropriate risk levels for themselves. And I was glad that, you know, my parents, who are now 80, you know, did stay home a lot, and when they went out, wore a mask. And that was very important.

[Tim Miller]

Do you worry about that with regards to rfk, if we have a bird flu outbreak and kind of how. How we're. How we are prepared to manage another pandemic? I just worry we don't have a lot of. Jared Polis is reading the studies in charge.

[Jared Polis]

I don't honestly remember what he was saying during COVID I don't remember if he was responsible or what he advocated during that. But no, again, I look, as I said, on reducing chronic disease, improving health, diet and nutrition, there's huge upside for the American people if that's what he focuses on. And there'd be downside if he were to focus on making vaccines harder to get or reducing our vaccination rate.

[Tim Miller]

All right, final one next year. We don't want you to be alone as the Democratic elected here at Principals First. So could you nominate a few other Democrats you would like us to heath. To recruit?

[Jared Polis]

Yeah, I'd be happy to grab a few. Let's. We'll strategize.

[Tim Miller]

We're gonna strategize. You know, nobody comes straight to mind.

[Jared Polis]

I'm just worried that they're gonna fall asleep before they make it through all 16 of your principals.

[Tim Miller]

What about Wes Moore? Maybe he's just right. Anybody else? Abigail Spamberger.

[Jared Polis]

That would be great to get her. Absolutely. So we'll strategize. I think we. Absolutely. This is not partisan. We should have a lot of great folks. And whether they are Ds or Us or Rs, they ought to be part of this, because I. You know, this is just on the heels of another little conference called, you know, cpac, you may have heard of it. And I said, we want to be big. You want to be bigger than cpac, so you got to grow next year. That's the goal. You got to be bigger. Bigger than CPAC even.

[Tim Miller]

Leave it there. That's my man. It's Governor Jared Polis, everybody. If only we had 50 like him, we'd be in better shape. We'll see y'all.