The People Running America Are So Much DUMBER Than You Think (w/ Destiny)

Summary

Bulwark Takes – "The People Running America Are So Much DUMBER Than You Think" (w/ Destiny)

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Host: Tim Miller (Bulwark)
Guest: Destiny (Steven, streamer and political commentator)
Date: June 13, 2026

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Overview

In this spirited episode, Tim Miller welcomes streamer and political commentator Destiny (Steven) for a wide-ranging, candid conversation about the intelligence—or lack thereof—of America’s elite, the failings of “oligarch” capitalist culture, and the evolution of political messaging on both the left and right. Using Destiny’s viral reaction to a previous interview with a pro-oligarch Silicon Valley investor as a jumping-off point, they dissect why so many of today's most powerful figures seem “dumber than you think,” the implications for democracy, and what both the far left and center-left should do in response.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Destiny’s Background and Perspective

• Who is Destiny?
  • Describes himself as “center left to far left establishment Democrat supporting type who does politics online in the YouTube space.” (01:26)
  • Origin in gaming, breaking into professional streaming with Starcraft 2 before pivoting to political commentary in 2016.

2. The Pro-Oligarch Interview Reaction

• Destiny recounts being "radicalized" by Tim’s interview with tech investor Jason from the All-In Podcast:

  "Your interview with that Jason guy actually radicalized me into an extreme communist faster than anything I've ever seen in my entire life." (03:29)

• Why?
  • Jason was “the living embodiment of the worst caricatures of what it means to be a capitalist,” rattling off talking points Destiny typically hears from hyperbolic communist critics—but genuinely believed. (04:49)
  • Example: Jason openly applauded oligarchic corruption and anti-democratic power:

    "We really prefer when there's a revolving door of corrupt oligarchical power that we can just go in and make deals with." (06:02, paraphrasing Jason)

[07:45] Notable Segment: Oligarchy as a Selling Point

• Jason says Silicon Valley and business leaders want oligarchy:

  “If you told a bunch of business leaders this could become oligarchic, they'd say, yeah, sign me up. Oh, yeah, sounds great.” (09:02–09:13, Jason)

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3. The Infantilization Double Standard

• Destiny highlights the media's tendency to excuse Republicans’ actions as "inevitable" or out of their hands, while holding Democrats uniquely responsible for all outcomes:

  “There is a very passive, infantilizing tone used...Republicans are just a little bit more fiscally responsible than Democrats...But Democrats...need to be above it all.” (09:18–10:19)

• Example: Biden blamed entirely for post-Trump inflation and war fallout, whereas COVID context is erased when evaluating his (or Trump’s) record.

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4. Silicon Valley Elites: Not as Smart (or Moral) as Advertised

• Tim shares how exposure to high-level tech and business elites changed his economic views:

  “The more I hear from and experience and meet the richest people in the world, the less impressed I am by them.” (13:07) “A lot of these people just fucking fell backwards into money...these people...should receive punitive taxation. They're horrible." (13:07–15:10)

• Destiny agrees, drawing a line between "business-builders" (Zuckerberg, Bezos) and modern VC/crypto “exiters”—people who luck into board seats and billionaire status without much merit:

  “It's the equivalent to me, like, in the finance world, where you get people who made money off of fucking crypto, and now they're investment wizards because they happen to, you know, buy the right coin or scam the right audience, and it's like, please just stop. Oh, my God.” (15:30–16:14)

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5. Democratic Messaging Dilemma

• Discussion on how or whether Democrats should lean into anti-oligarch, anti-billionaire rhetoric.

• Tim: Does the severity of excess justify “using the tools at [Democrats’] disposal…to go after these fuckers? ...I’m not saying I want communism, but…probably needs to happen to rebalance things.” (16:14–17:25)

• Destiny on Dem media strategy and left platforming:

  “MAGA people and then the far left people, the socialists and the communists have figured out that media ecosystem thing, and the lib left still haven't.” (17:25) “Lib messaging apparatus still needs to be figured out…” (18:00)

• Advice: Liberals need friendly platforms of their own rather than only appearing on hostile far-left or mainstream platforms, where they're caricatured or attacked. (19:52–20:38)

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6. The Far-Left Online: Limits of Coalition

• Tim outlines the challenge of working with “very online” left influencers (Majority Report, Hassan Piker, etc.) who “attack the mainstream Democrats more than they like to attack the Republicans.” (25:09, 25:51)
• Destiny’s take:

  “If you push any of them...the left position was a two-state solution. That’s like the radical Zionist position [now].” (26:29)

  • Pragmatism lags: As far-left voices gain institutional power (e.g., DSA-influenced mayors), Destiny sees little evidence of increased pragmatism—though he lauds examples like Mamdani for understanding political realities. (30:05)

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7. Elon Musk, Trillionaires, and Market Madness

• Elon Musk’s notional trillionaire status comes under fire:

  “I do hate Elon because I think that buying the largest news social media company on the planet and then exclusively using that to push your simping for the President of the United States...is crazy.” (32:12)

• Both highlight the absurdity of Musk wielding power over media, AI, and government access, and the lack of meaningful mechanisms to check such figures.

• Destiny criticizes the “startup to exit” and mergers/acquisitions culture, especially in tech, calling it “the most anti capitalist opinion I have”:

  “I don’t like the culture of the obsessive horizontal and vertical integration that happens especially in the tech world, I think it’s incredibly cancerous.” (37:58–38:41)

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8. Failures and Dangers of Current Governance

• Destiny and Tim reflect on the sheer incompetence of the current governing class—particularly under Trump 2.0:

  “The whole first Trump term was a guy...fucking brain dead and didn’t know anything about how government worked...now we have a dysfunctional government because everything is ran out of the White House...we don’t have that bureaucracy that everybody hated before that actually knew how to run [things].” (44:21–45:50)

• Tim: “It would just boggle the mind, I think, of folks to actually get to meet the high level people that are...just because of how stupid they are. ...the median Destiny viewer is so far more informed than the Trump donors and the people in his cabinet.” (42:26)

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9. Concluding: The Cynicism and Possible Paths Forward

• Destiny plugs “Digital Ground Game,” a grassroots canvassing org raising significant sums for moderate Democratic candidates. (46:23–46:54)
• The episode closes with a feeling of urgency and disappointment about elite incompetence and the dangers that come with unchecked oligarchic power—but also with a sense that smart, plugged-in activism and better messaging could help rebalance American politics.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Destiny, on Silicon Valley capitalists:

  "I have fought with so many people who say, 'cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds.' Like liberals always defend fascism. And it's like, historically that's not really true. ...But to hear this guy look you in the eye digitally and say, 'we prefer a revolving door of corrupt oligarchical power...' that's the kind of stuff you'd have to torture me to admit." (04:49–06:02)

• Tim, on tech wealth:

  "A lot of these people just fucking fell backwards into money... these people are—should receive punitive taxation. They're horrible." (13:07)

• Destiny, on today's elite incompetence:

  "What people don't realize, like, the whole first Trump term was a guy [who] was...brain dead and didn’t know anything about how government worked... now we have a dysfunctional government because everything is ran out of the White House." (44:21–45:50)

• Destiny, on the modern VC world:

  "I don’t like the culture of the obsessive horizontal and vertical integration that happens especially in the tech world, I think it’s incredibly cancerous." (37:58)

• Tim, on public knowledge:

  "...the median Destiny viewer is so far more informed than the Trump donors and the people in his cabinet." (42:26)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:26] — Destiny introduces his politics and streaming career
• [04:49] — Destiny’s radicalization by pro-oligarch tech interview
• [07:42–09:13] — Jason’s “pro-oligarch” comments
• [10:15–11:13] — The "infantilization" of Republicans vs. Democrats
• [13:07–15:10] — Tim on losing faith in America’s billionaire class
• [16:14–18:00] — The messaging dilemma for Democrats; liberal platform weakness
• [25:09–25:51] — Defining the “very online” left and intra-left feuds
• [30:05] — Mamdani as the “reverse Nixon to China” example
• [32:07] — Destiny’s take on wealth, punitive taxation, and the limits of capitalism
• [37:58–38:41] — Mergers & acquisitions: Destiny’s anti-capitalist line
• [44:21–45:50] — The rise of sheer incompetence in government
• [46:23–46:54] — Digital Ground Game (grassroots organizing) plug

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Tone and Language

The conversation is irreverent, candid, and laced with exasperation—especially when discussing the naiveté, complicity, or outright lack of knowledge among the country’s economic and political elite. Both Tim and Destiny mix policy wonkishness with biting sarcasm and gallows humor, echoing the style of the streaming and online political spaces referenced throughout.

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Summary Takeaway

If you haven’t listened to this episode, you’ll come away with a vivid, often darkly funny portrait of why “the people running America are so much dumber than you think”—from Silicon Valley billionaires accidentally confirming the wildest leftist critiques of capitalism, to a Trump-era government staffed by clueless loyalists, to an opposition still struggling to master modern messaging. Engaging, relatable, and firmly plugged into the present moment, Destiny and Tim challenge listeners to be both more skeptical of those in power and more intentional about how to drive real, positive change.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Visit spinquest.com for more details. Hey everybody, it's Tim Miller. Welcome back to the Bulwark YouTube page. I am here with Destiny the streamer Destiny, otherwise known as Steven. He is streaming while we are doing this. This is a very meta deal on this YouTube video. Okay. I'm taping a video with him. While I'm taping, he's streaming it on his stream. And you know, so this is the new world. This is the world I'm trying to navigate. This is the world I'm in.

[A]

You're supposed to be doing this more, aren't you? Didn't you start.

[B]

I was supposed to be doing this more. I'm trying to stream more. I took a few people are. I've had some. Where is Tim on the streaming? How do. Do you have a life? I guess this is. Well, hold on before I ask that question. For those of us on the Bulwark YouTube feed, for the normies, people who don't exist in Twitch World, we just give them like a one minute. Who are you? Like what's your set yourself on the political spectrum somewhere? You know, just give people a starting point, man.

[A]

It really depends on where you're at. For an ordinary American political audience, I would describe myself as like a center left to far left establishment Democrat supporting type who does politics online in the YouTube space. I'll say that.

[B]

And your backstory, you began doing this how?

[A]

When I was 20, I was the first person on the planet to do streaming full time as a profession. I played video games semi professionally and then professionally a game called Starcraft 2. And then around 2016 I got into politics full time. Kind of. Yeah. Like the commentary shifted from just playing games to doing more political commentary.

[B]

Yeah. And so then people are just kind of people are just like monitoring you all day long. Like you're just hanging out, you're just talking about what's happening on your computer. You're playing games, you're just vibing out. That's the. That's the gist.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I guess that's my question. How do you have A life. Like, I wanted to stream more. I started blocking out some time for myself to do so in the evenings. But, you know, I also have a day job. I got to do a podcast for people. I got to go on Ms. Now I gotta go have drinks with my boys. I got a parent, my child. I gotta coach the basketball team. Like, what am I gonna do? Like, but you, you're just, like, you're just in your room. You're live your life is your room. Or. Or what's happening.

[A]

Okay, well, that's a very negative way to load it, but yeah. No, yeah, I mean, my life.

[B]

Look, JVL's life is his room. He never leaves his house. People have different kind of vibes. Maybe JVL should be the streamer of the Bulwark.

[A]

Well, listen, JVL is my spirit animal on your platform. Okay, so.

[B]

Okay, that sounds surprising.

[A]

God bless him. Yeah, I mean, I grew up playing a ton of computer games and everything, so I was in that generation where your parents would scream at you to get off the computer and go watch TV or something because I was spending too much time playing games sometimes. So it's already kind of in my, I guess, blood to do that. And then the evolution from that to do it online political commentary. I'm sure, as you guys know, there's an endless amount of stuff to talk about always. And it's easy to stream that every day and get caught up in that.

[B]

Yeah, all right, man. Well, we're just going to vibe out on different politics stuff. What prompted this conversation? You hosted me on your stream a couple months ago now, which I appreciate, and I'm trying to, you know, learn the mores and ways of the streaming world. Secondly, though, you sent me the following DM on x.com we are not reading it off. Yeah, we're not texts. We're not text friends yet. We're still. Our relationship is still X.com DM level. It said this. Your interview with that Jason guy actually radicalized me into an extreme communist faster than anything I've ever seen in my entire life. Holy fuck. So a great DM to receive. Also relevant because, like, part of your brand as a center left Normie Dem streamer. Like, you fight with the communists a lot. You have a lot of beef with communists. So I thought it was kind of meaningful that something I did gave you some sympathy to your streaming counterparties. And I'm wondering. I would like to hear you expand on it a little bit.

[A]

Okay, so firstly, when you talk about the Overton window or the political philosophies that are popular in America, it really varies based on what part of the Internet you're on or what part of American politics you're on. I'm sure you've noticed this, that if you talk to Republicans, they would say that Obama is a communist.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Or, you know, they, I mean, they've been saying this for decades for every single Democrat, that we're all communists or socialists or whatever. And then if you go online, there are a lot of people in very far left spaces where when they say a leftist or somebody from the left, capital L left, they mean a socialist or a communist. So you can't like center left Democrats, they wouldn't consider to be leftists or whatever. Okay, so to. Okay, so just clarifying that terminology on the very, very far left. Okay. So like people who consider themselves socialists and communists, there are these like stock critiques that they make of all of the liberal society. So of all the ordinary political factions that exist in the United States or Europe or whatever else. And that Jason guy was the living embodiment of the worst caricatures of what it means to be a capitalist. And I just couldn't believe that somebody was unironically rattling them off one after another after another after another after another. I have fought with so many people who say this, they'll be like, cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds. Like liberals always defend fascism or whatever. And it's like historically that's not really true. Right. It was the liberals that, you know that technically went to Europe and beat the fascists and everything else with the

[B]

help of Soviet Union, everything Small liberalism is anti fascist in its core. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But to hear this guy look you in the eye digitally and to say, well, you know, we really prefer when there's a revolving door of corrupt oligarchical power that we can just go in and make deals with. That's the kind of stuff that you would have to like torture me to admit because I feel like I would be like, somebody's going to eat my body. I'm going to be cannibalized. If I'm in a society where, especially right now, where there's so much like civil unrest, deserved or not, about, you know, wealth disparity, income gaps and everything else, to have this guy just openly saying, well, you don't really understand, Tim, let me explain why all of us love the corrupt authoritarian structure so much. And then you rightfully pointed out, even though you can never use a counterfactual hypothetical because they'll lie and own it. You rightfully pointed out if Kamala or if Biden or if anybody else had this type of revolving door structure, it would be the end of the universe for these guys. They would be crying all day about how corrupt and evil and terrible the administration is. And, yeah, I. I just. It was answer after answer after answer where this guy was just sending me for how insane this. The JVL said it best when he said what? Strap him to a Falcon whatever rocket and just launch him into the sun.

[B]

Like, strap him to a Falcon heavy. I appreciate that. I like that. That's what I was going for. I want people to see the unadulterated ID of these guys. That's part of the reason why I have Jason on. Say what you want about Jason. He's telling you what he really thinks. He's not bullshitting. Otherwise nobody would talk like this. I just want to play for people who didn't punish themselves with it, which is some folks. I noticed our YouTube numbers were down on the Jason from All in podcast interview. I want to just play maybe just the oligarch clip that you're referencing where he was talking about being pro oligarch, essentially. Let's take a listen to that one.

[C]

If you start a war and you do a supply chain shock with energy, you essentially take the Trump 2.0 agenda and you torch it, which is what's happened.

[B]

But I have. Why haven't more people come around on that? And again, I would think that Chamath, for example, I know you don't like to speak for guys in theory. If you had a VC and you. You brought a CEO in and they're like, hey, man, you invest in me right now, you get behind me, we're going to have 6% growth this year. And then six months later, they, like, stuck their dick in the fax machine and like, screwed everything up, and now they're at 2% growth with maybe negative, with maybe going down. Yeah. You'd be like, okay, well, turns out we need a new. We need some new leadership. I'm calling the board here. I have some concerns. So why isn't that happening? Why aren't people like, we're calling the board.

[C]

Very simple. Very simple.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Trump demands complete fidelity. I'm not speaking about Chamafia or anybody specific, but we all know in order to be in the Trump circle, you have to have complete, utter fidelity to him. He's a genius.

[B]

So it's North Korea.

[A]

We're in North Korea, basically, I think.

[B]

Which it doesn't feel like Again, like a capitalist system. It doesn't feel like a capitalist system.

[C]

Yeah, well, it's.

[B]

I can't critique the president.

[C]

Capitalist slash. You know, if you told a bunch of business leaders, leaders this could become oligarchic, they'd say, yeah, they would be like, sign me up. Oh, yeah, sounds great.

[B]

And this is oligarchy.

[C]

Sounds pretty great.

[B]

This is why we're fucked. J. Cal, for a short period of time. Can we agree for a second? That's why we're fucked.

[A]

I don't know if you've ever heard there's a name for this concept that somebody introduced me to a month ago. And sometimes when I get these concepts introduced to me, I see them everywhere. And I don't know if you've ever heard this before, but when people talk about Republicans in American discourse, there is a very passive, infantilizing tone used. Like the things they do inevitably flow from the circumstances that they're a part of. Right. Well, Trump had to do this. The Democrats did this. Well, what do you expect us to do? Somebody said a mean thing. But Democrats are consistently treated like they have ultra agency and that they need to be above it all. It's like this adult child approach to politics. If you want to invoke, you know, like, I think, I think you even did it. I think it was in this interview with Jason. When you ask people why was there so much inflation in Biden's four years of presidency, Covid vanishes from people's minds. They don't know anything about COVID And in order to jog the memory, have you ever seen the super romance movie the Notebook or whatever?

[B]

Right, I've not seen the Notebook.

[A]

He jogs the memories with the whole story. If you want to jog conservative memories of COVID the only way you can ever bring that memory to the forefront of their mind is to start asking why things got so messed up in the fourth year of Trump's first term. And then all of a sudden they're like, oh, Covid, Covid, the economy. Yeah, but then for Biden, you know, he owns the Ukraine, Russian war, he owns all of the inflation after the, you know, supply chain screw ups and everything else after Covid. And it's very, very, very annoying to me. Yeah, but, but he talks, he talks here like you're rightfully point out. If you had a guy who made all the mistakes that Trump made, you wouldn't say, we're going to ignore the mistakes and just say, you know, whatever. A guy, you know, shoving his dick in the, in the fax machine. Whereas for these guys, when they talk about Trump, like, well, if he makes a mistake, it's kind of like it's a goof. You know, he just. He goofed a little bit on the tariffs and he goofed on ir Iran. And then it's also this very confident assertion. All these Silicon Valley people do this because they think they've solved politics, because they read anthem from Ayn Rand or something, right? I don't know. Or listen to Peter Thiel or Curtis Irvin talk.

[B]

One time he mentioned Jason in the Post interview. You know, people are dunking on him on social media. And he replied. And he basically says, like, all I was saying is the same thing that Curtis Yarvin has been saying. Oh, my God, people want oligarchy. I was just observing that trend, and I'm just like, okay, so how can

[A]

they say with the utmost of confidence, like, kamala would have gone to war in Iran.

[B]

For people who did not watch Jason, I will summarize what happened. Me. You're upset about the Iran war. So don't you have any regrets about not going with Kamala since she would not have done this? Him. Kamala definitely would have gone into the Iran war. Me? How do you know him? Well, because the same people are in charge and they tell everybody what to do in Israel and something, something. And Kamala definitely would have done it. Neocons and Hillary Clinton. Me, I had Kamala's foreign policy advisor on the podcast. I said, would you have gone to war with Iran? He said, absolutely not. Why don't you believe that? Well, he would have said that. Kamala definitely would have done it. Kamala was stupid. Kamala dumb. Kamala would have done Iran. That's basically what happened.

[A]

That's just unbelievable to me. I don't know. Like, it's so dumb. The. The political analysis from these guys. It, like, stops and starts on. On Elon's Twitter feed and. And that's it. I don't have words to describe it. You have to feel the frustration, I guess, right? You guys, you've been in media and everything, I think, like, longer than I have, doing real political commentary and everything else. And then you talk to these guys who. The understanding of everything is just. It's not even surface level. It's like meme level of understanding of everything. Like, oh, well, maybe. Maybe the tariffing the entire world at arbitrary rates that we completely and totally invented based on a dumb formula, you know, of our trade deficits with a country, maybe that was like a small goof from Trump. I remember before Trump got elected, the idea in economic circles that we would put like a 5 or 10% tariff on the entire world, that was like, unthinkable. That was just like. It's like not even a real. There's no way that that would happen. And the Liberation Day tariffs were just. And that's. It's thing after thing after thing.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, so this takes us back to the original kind of point, which I wanted to hash out with you, because this is kind of a challenge for both of us. I think there are two places where people ask me a lot as being a former Republican, like, what did you change your mind on after Trump? Like, why did you. Why have you become such a passionate lib? Are you just a hack and a grifter who goes along with everything the Dems want now? And I'm like, no, not really. Like, there's some things I've changed on, some things I haven't. I still think there's a lot of waste in government. I still like capitalism for the most part. The two things that have happened really don't have a ton of. To do with Trump, actually. Where my views are evolving and where I feel like you have to hand it to the leftist. The leftist types. The first is the more I hear from and experience and meet the richest people in the world, the less impressed I am by them and the more I feel like that I had a misunderstanding. Like the frame in my mind of the up from your bootstraps capitalist person who worked very hard and created a widget and earned their money and the government shouldn't take it from them. That exists and that person shouldn't be derided. But. But like, a lot of these people just fucking fell back, last words into money. And like, they're the fourth person at PayPal. And, you know, say what you want about Peter Schiel, but at least he had a good idea. And, like, this was just his fucking racist buddy from the Stanford magazine. And now he has ungodly wealth because he had, you know, fucking RSU's at the beginning of the company, right? Like, these people are. These are. Should. Should receive punitive taxation. They're horrible. And we should find ways to redistribute money from these people to other folks who are working hard and trying to get by. That's one way I've changed my mind. And the other way is related to kind of Middle east wars, which we'll get to in a second. So I'm just curious how you kind of like, process how you're processing this. You gotta hate to hand it to the leftists that you fight with over capitalism. But on the other hand, these guys make it very hard.

[A]

I mean, yeah, sometimes it feels like politics is one side is over exaggerating the other side so much that the other side starts to gain power. And then once they get power, they become the caricatures that the other side was over exaggerating about. And then we just kind of go back and forth on this. But, you know, to your point, I feel like our elite, even our elite tech class, I feel like they used to look a little bit different.

[B]

Like, literally, Bezos looks different. I mean, he's had a new face. He has a new face now, you know?

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, like, Bezos on Lex Friedman or, you know, Mark Zuckerberg. Like, these guys see what you want about them and the unimaginable amount of wealth they have. Like, these guys built businesses. They really did. And I feel like these people are just of a different quality of person than these guys who are. You know, they get good exits from companies, and then they manage to throw themselves onto the board of every other company and they have enough money to throw around that if they can get one or two more good exits, all of a sudden they're billionaires on paper, and now their opinions are supposed to mean something. And it's the equivalent to me, like, in the finance world, where you get people who made money off of fucking crypto, and now they're investment wizards because they happen to, you know, buy the right corner, scam the right audience, and it's like, please just stop. Oh, my God.

[B]

And so how. How do you think about that now when it comes to, like, policy and how the Democrats should talk about this, Right? Because I think that, like, there's a moment right now that's happening on the left, across the left, where people feel like, okay, well, the thing for Democrats to do now to win back the masses is to talk about how terrible billionaires are. And. And, you know, a billionaire should be illegal, and we hate billionaires. Go after the elites, and we should name the enemy. You know, this, like, kind of messaging. You see this a lot, and, like, that's not my natural state, but, like, the billionaires are making it very hard on themselves. And I guess this was kind of what I was talking to Jason about. I was like, you realize that these, like, there will be a backlash, and the next group that comes into power is going to use these oligarchic, authoritarian powers that Trump has gained for himself and they're going to use them to go after you. Like you're going to be the target of the next administration and it's going to be hard for me to get upset about that. And at some level I feel like that probably needs to happen to rebalance things. I'm not saying I want communism, but like at some level I'm going to want people to use the tools at their disposal within the rule of law to go after these fuckers. I'm wondering if that's kind of where you're landing on this or are you. Are you reluctant to go that far?

[A]

I mean. Well, two different questions here. The. On the first part for how should the Democrats message? There was a reason I reached out to you that first time and I screamed to you for, you know, an hour. I rambled about that. The kind of like the media ecosystem, I'm still a big believer in that, that the MAGA people and then the far left people, the socialists and the communists have figured out that media ecosystem thing and the lib left still haven't. Like, I'm still watching people like Mallory McMurro go on to. Is it Matt Bernstein? Was that the last name Orchard?

[B]

Yeah, it's the. He's the guy people might know from social media. He's like, yeah, he's got the very long fingernails.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like a very, very, very far left. And I'm still watching the center left libs kind of like go onto these platforms and just get completely bodied by the most aggressively hostile interviews ever. And I don't mean that to imply that their performance was bad or that they're not doing a good job at representing themselves. I think they're doing as good as they can. I would say the same about Slacken on Breaking Points, but you're just, you're never really going to shine on a platform like that. Compare the interview that Matt did and he brought Emma in even for assistance, which is funny because she's brain dead as well. But when they were having that interview with Mallory McMorrow, compare that to the interview they did with El Said and it's just like it was the most unbelievable glaze fest ever. They were just like, oh, you're so perfect and awesome and I'm not going to ask you how to solve Israel, Palestine because we all agree on everything. And it's just like, yeah, it's horrible. So the lib messaging apparatus still needs to be figured out on the second thing when it comes to legal stuff. So I feel like there's this world where it seems like law can be anything or whatever, and then you kind of, like, learn a little bit more, and you're like, okay, well, there's like, a structure and a process and everything for how law works, and then you learn a little bit more, and it's like, if you're willing to be creative, it seems like you could literally do anything you want. It just comes down to, you know, what are these kind of meta norms that you think we should all adhere to? Because if you don't believe in any kind of norms whatsoever, you know, like, there was Nothing illegal about McConnell robbing us of a Supreme Court justice. There was Nothing illegal about McConnell not convicting Trump in the Senate. They had the votes for that when Trump was on the way out, but he said that he didn't want to because it was a president who wasn't in office anymore. That's not real. Right. So if you want to be legally creative, you know, you have the slush fund that they kind of tried and then got rid of. You can really do anything. So I do think the Democrats need to be really aggressive in going after the past bad actors, because it just can't be. I don't think our system can survive people thinking that as soon as their guy is in power, they can do whatever they want when it's just on one side. It's just unbelievable to me.

[B]

So what would your advice to Mallory be in that situation?

[A]

I think you have to find friendly lib platforms to begin to create, like, the resonance of an idea before you. If you ever do, before you go out to aggressive platforms to fight on it. Because if I'm thinking of, like, what do the libs think about a thing? If you think about what liberals think about things, you're actually only two ideas are coming to mind, and it's whatever the Republicans tell you they think, or it's whatever the far left tells you they think, because there are no friendly lib platforms to go on to get an idea out there without being, you know, butchered on whatever it is. Yeah. And, like, I thought. I don't know. Are you familiar with another streamer in MySpace called Hutch?

[B]

I know Hutch. Yeah. I don't know. I did Hutch's show the other day.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Mallory did an interview with him. I thought it was a good interview.

[B]

Yeah. What's up, everybody?

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yeah, I think that, you know, there's this cliche of old cliche from political hands about how only Nixon could go to China. Are you familiar with this cliche? And it was something, it was basically the concept was that because Nixon had a reputation for being a conservative hard ass and like a prick, he could go try to do rapprochement with the commies without like suffering political consequences for it. Right? Like if it was a liberal that had tried it, they would be called a commie and it would hurt their reputation. And, and because Nixon already I kind of solidified anti commie reputation, he was able to kind of do more rapprochement. And I kind of feel like the inverse of this is how I would think about being a, you know what, what will work for somebody from the left right now? I kind of feel like you need to have somebody who has credibility with the people you don't like and fight with the Emma's of the world who have like leftist views on maybe healthcare or Israel, which seem to be the two main issues they care about, or going after the oligarchs. Maybe this third issue, like maybe these three topics and then it would give you the ability to kind of go on to more. So I'm saying like doing the opposite thing of what you're talking about, like have somebody who has credibility with the left crowd who can then expand their olive branch out to the liberals and to the center because they're not going to get attacked by the left world because they, you know, see them as one of theirs. What do you think about that?

[A]

I understand the thought there, but I think that there's an important difference between the reality we live in today versus the reality of the past. There's this concept that like perception is reality, right? What people see, what they perceive is, is, I mean what they know and what they feel is true. And in the past there wasn't really a way to like totally control what was in front of somebody. If they turn the TV on, they don't always have control over what the next program is or what a news anchor might say. And you kind of get more conflicting stuff. And then in all the stuff that you get not to say that there weren't partisans back then. But in all the stuff that you get, you have some understanding of what's going on. But if I can take you and put you in front of a TV or a screen and exclusively control the information that you see, I can sell you whatever idea I want about anything. Right? So, like, I'm sure you know this. It is unfathomable today. I bet if you polled the average American, this, even the average American would believe this, that Republicans are just a little bit more fiscally responsible than Democrats. There is no foundation in reality for the past three decades of the Trump is going to be accountable for. Is it over a third of the debt already, like, by the time he's out of office? It's unbelievable. And that's not even including the. All the extra debt that was accrued under Biden's term because of the Trump tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Right. Which was a huge cut in revenue to the government. Everything else but. Or the idea that, like, Biden was this really unhealthy, senile old man. Whereas now how many times we watch Trump fall asleep somewhere or, you know, the weird markings on his hand everywhere, the exploded ankle, like, it's just crazy. But because they control so much of what you see, you don't really think about that as much. And people aren't arguing about that as much. When you're looking at these far left people, you brought up two issues that they focus on a lot. Health care and Palestine and Israel. I think it's important. I don't think these issues are random. I'll ignore the foreign influence. I think that these issues are important because it allows them to exclude every single politician that is like, basically electable on the Democratic Party to give them like an infinite ability to attack every single Democratic Party person. If you truly want Medicare for all in this country, it is indefensible to say that a public option, like hopping along a public option is not possible. That you shouldn't do that. It just doesn't make any sense to have that position. But all of these far left people will have that position. I don't know. If you ever talk to one, ask them, what do you think about Obama? They think he's a warmonger. They think that the ACA was a rigged.

[B]

You're talking about a particular. I just, I think from our more normal ME audience, I just, I do want to kind of set the terms here because sometimes you, like, we get very deep into these factional feuds and it's like you're speaking about this. There's a specific brand of left media person, particularly in the streaming world but and also on YouTube and elsewhere who like they like to attack the, the mainstream Democrats more than they like to attack the Republicans. Like they don't like the Republicans but their like main focus is on their intra factional fight within the Democratic Party and going after whoever it be, Obama, Clinton, Harris, Biden, you know, that is, that is their more acute foe. Then they see that as the more acute foe than they see the other political party. Right.

[A]

So those are the people like you're drunk. And I Casparian, your Emma Viglin, the Majority Report, your Hassan pikers. You're like these people not like CNN or Ms. Now or anything else. Yeah.

[B]

And so your point is that, that there's, there's not that you don't think that the rights, my proposed strategy of, of engaging with them in areas of common interest, identifying you know, support for single payer health care or opposition to funding weapons for Israel as part of a broader platform where you also reach out to the middle on different issues. You don't think that's going to work because they're not interested in that. That's your, that's the case you're making.

[A]

Absolutely not though, like ask if you push any of them. I don't know how long you follow the Israel Palestine stuff for but it's funny now that it used to be that like the left position was like a two state solution. That's like the radical Zionist position. Now if you say two state to any of these people they, and you're right to clarify, I'm talking about this very online, very radical like left leaning movement. But the people that push that Israel Palestine issue as their only issue, they don't even have any realistic solutions.

[B]

I do wonder if that's changing as it's mainstreaming. And this is my, I really, this will be my final Hasan point because I don't want to do forever Hasan discourse. But it seems like he's trying. Like I just as an observer of this, as an immigrant to the internal feuds, I see a lot of the leftists as they're starting to gain power. As Platner wins in Maine, as who knows, Abdul Said winning the polls of Michigan. There's a practicality of pragmatism that starts to come into play where it's like okay, maybe now this right strategy for a while when we had no power was just to shitpost the the Democratic party. And now maybe the right strategy is to find potential allies do you not. Do you not see that happening from

[A]

the far left people or from the far left people? No, I think they still almost exclusively attack your moderate left, your center at left.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

They rally hard around their kind of like populist figures. So they're Al said they're platners. They always love to run. Back to Mamdani.

[B]

Do you have a. Do you have Mamdani issues?

[A]

No, I love Mandani. I think he's done a phenomenal job, an exceptional job. Oh, my God. When that Jason guy said he's attacking brave New Yorkers and he had nothing to say for anything that Trump has said, I couldn't believe that he.

[B]

So this example for people, was he in the Jason interview, I asked him this question about Mondani. Mandani is the. Is the prime example I'm giving of the Nixon to China reverse, where he, like, is the DSA loves him. He was a DSA member, but then he's made some practical moves to the middle since he's been in the mayorship and he kept the police chief and et cetera. And so I asked Jason about that. I was like, you were panicked about Mamdani getting it and fear mongering about it, talking about how the socialists are in charge. Well, now he's in charge. New York doesn't seem to have gone full socialist. The Knicks are winning and things are fine. And then he goes back to this one pieta Terre video where they did. Where basically Mamdani's standing outside of Ken Griffin's house saying there's rich people that bought 25, $50 million apartments in New York and they don't and we should charge them extra taxes. If they're going to live here, they should pay extra taxes, which is like, to me, seems like a reasonable policy. And Jason was like, pissing his pants over the fact that he was outside of Ken Griffin's house and that was a call to violence, or he calls

[A]

him a New Yorker. This guy wasn't born in New York and the guy doesn't even live there. Also, I don't know if people know this, but the reason why Mamdani was outside that unit. I hate that I'm even defending this because I'm a capitalist, but I think vacancy taxes are fine. If you're not going to live there, you're not even contributing to the city. But it was the most expensive single unit of property in the entirety of the United States of America. It's not like he was just outside that guy. Right? Yeah. And Even the complaint didn't make sense. Like you're going to get this guy killed or whatever. Why the guy's never even at the frickin apartment. You would know when you go there.

[B]

He doesn't live there. Yeah.

[A]

Oh my God. Oh God, I hate that guy. Sorry. And I also hate that he does this thing. They all do this thing where they're like, I'm actually an independent. I'm an independent. They all say, I'm an independent. And then you're like, do you think at this point that Kamala would have been better than Trump? No, no, no. Trump definitely better. Trump. Like every single one of these guys that says that. Sorry, I'm not complaining.

[B]

Going. But the Mamdani, that approach seems to be working though, right? I guess back to just the substance of what Mamdani is doing.

[A]

Yeah. But I think there are a couple important things to keep in mind. So, one, I think Mamdani is doing a great job. One thing that Mamdani realizes that none of these other like DSA socialist types are realizing and Mandani says it, which I appreciate, is that like a blue mayor in New York is going to have the political flexibility to be much further left than like Senate blue senators from Georgia or, you know, elected people who are fighting in more purpley areas. You know, like, you might be able to have a really strong position in a plus 40 blue district in New York or California or whatever, but you might not be able to have that same position if you're in a very purple area in, you know, like in Michigan or Pennsylvania. And I think recognizing that is really important. Yeah. And Mamdani does, which I appreciate.

[B]

I want to go back to rich people stuff. So as we're streaming, Elon has become the first trillionaire on paper. Trillionaire. Now on paper, I want to play a little bit more from Jason, but before we do that, where are you at on that as a capitalist does the trillionaire? I was having lunch just before I got here with a Democratic politician who the Democrats like to pick my brain as a former Republican and you were a capitalist, you're a legit. You wanted to cut taxes for a while. Doesn't it bug you that there's a trillionaire? And my answer was like, it doesn't bother me in theory, but like in practice, what we've seen from Elon, like the fact that this person has used his wealth to manipulate our elections, to manipulate the government, and now he's going to have even more and more wealth and there's not like A meaningful way to, you know, to tax it. Because it's, as you're mentioning it's on paper that is concerning to me, is that are you. Do you land there or where are you at on a trillionaire? Elon, that's.

[A]

It's a lot of, like, economics and finance. I really don't care much about, like, the billionaire trillionaire thing. Like, I think that too much of our. We joked earlier or you joke, or maybe you're serious. You made the comment about, like, punitive taxation. Like, I try to say that when we tax people, it should be to fund programs that we think are socially important. And I think wealthier people can bear a greater share of the cost of that.

[B]

That was one of those jokes that has a hint of truth to it. I think that there are few people who deserve punitive taxation. But, yeah, sure.

[A]

Well, at this point, I would be okay with the military Dr. Bulldozers on Twitter's, you know, server warehouses. So I, Yeah, I'm. So I'm aboard with that. But I think that when you talk about, like, there. There are certain companies that have. We used to do this, like, fundamental analysis of a company. Like, what are their assets? You know, what are they, what is their revenue? You know, cost versus profit and loss, whatever, right? When you look at these companies, like, if. If you've got like a massive, like a real estate company or a massive software company that has like a ton of revenue in and out. Like, even if the guy who owns 50% of the shares were to start offloading all of it, like, yeah, it would affect the share price, but, like, there's real stuff there. It went bankrupt. You could sell the assets and pay off people that have stock equity, debtors, whatever. For a lot of these other companies, your Teslas, your SpaceX and Xai, that value is a lot more in the ether, in the. In kind of like our thoughts and feelings and vibes. So, like, if you were to get to a world where Jeff Bezos were to start selling off a lot of his shares of Amazon because he wanted to leave, I think that the price would be relatively stable. Like, obviously people would see Bezos leaving and they might think something about that. But for Elon, if Elon were to leave Tesla, I don't know if the. I don't know if that Stock drops by 90%, right? Because I don't know what the real value is actually of that. Of the. Of all the stuff there and even what the future value is of the fundamental part of the company. All that to say That I don't know if Elon being like a trillionaire on paper is as impressive as like the Rockefellers were or people that have like, companies with real fundamental value. But I do hate Elon because I think that buying the largest news social media company on the planet and then exclusively using that to push your simping for the President of the United States while he gives you a fake department in the White House to go through every single federal agency on the. In the government is crazy. Like, all of that is just so beyond the pale.

[B]

I do agree with that. I had a mode I was reading. So JBL's newsletter yesterday was about. This was about the, the, you know, SpaceX IPO that's happening today. And like, he has this line in it. He is currently attempting to use a division of SpaceX to incite pogroms in Europe. And like, that sentence is accurate in the micro. I mean, depending on what you would think about the word pogroms. But he's like inciting race riots, certainly in Europe. Using X and like XXAI is a division of SpaceX, which is like absurd, you know, and it's like shine heart wig company, 30 rock stuff. It's like, what, like, why is his, like, why are his racist ramblings connected to the space satellites? And, and I think thought about through that prism, you know, it makes me feel much more open to creative, creative government solutions to a company that has this like huge media platform that's like promoting racist violence.

[A]

And Elon himself. Does you ever go through this guy's Twitter feed? Holy Christ, dude.

[B]

It's insane.

[A]

Every day. Like Elon and Trump are. If you had grandparents that tweeted like this, you would be embarrassed. Or parents, you would, you'd say like, mom, you need to put down the phone. Like, this is so much.

[B]

I have a couple friends that do tweet like it and it is embarrassing. And we have side texts about them. And so it's something to monitor. I want to play one more clip from. We discussed this question about the SpaceX IPO's value. Well, Jason, and it's relevant today since it's out today. So let's watch that. Do you think that Tesla is appropriately valued?

[C]

All of Elon's companies get valued like venture capital businesses, venture capitalists invest in. Like, what is the next business that's going to drop five years out, six years out, seven years out? Most public companies get valued on their existing performance. How much did you sell this quarter, et cetera. So if you look at Palantir if you look at SpaceX and you look at Tesla, yes. They're essentially valued like a VC business, which means they're fully valued. And you could wait, you don't have to buy these stocks in the public market. You can short them. There are many devices for you to not participate in this. I will say the reason why Tesla's doing particularly well and has kept its value is because of Optimus. And full self driving Optimus will be what that company will be remembered for. Huge opportunity. So what he keeps doing is he keeps building the future and then people value it as a venture business. So you're right. As a public company, the valuation doesn't match. For venture capitalists it does match.

[B]

What about the NASDAQ fast track part of this? Because this feels ridiculous and those of us who are invested into index funds feel like we're forced to support Elon Musk grift. We don't like that the you do

[C]

not need to be in index funds. You could. And if it is a lot of people sustainable? Well, I mean if, if people really do have a problem with it, you could make a synthetic index fund without them in it. And if people do feel it's that way, Vanguard will take them out.

[B]

Still unfair though. I mean if you and I were starting a business and did an ipo, NASDAQ wouldn't change the rules for us.

[C]

I don't know too much about, I'll be totally honest, I don't know exactly how it came about.

[B]

That's always where things said I don't know about too much. You know that's a classic. You know, any time that they're breaking the rules, one of their friends is breaking the laws or saying something stupid. The safe harbor is. I didn't, I don't actually know the details. Like you could read an article about it that had NASDAQ changed all their rules to help Elon.

[A]

But yeah, there's like there this would be. You'd have to go way more into the finance part of this. Like this is probably my most anti capitalist opinion. I don't like the culture of startups. I don't like the concept of starting a business with the goal of just exiting at some point to one of like five tech companies. I think that the culture of the obsessive horizontal and vertical integration that happens especially in the tech world, I think it's incredibly cancerous. I don't like it. I think that this is the most anti capitalist opinion I have.

[B]

I love this. Keep going. What would you want? What would you want to. How would you like to change it?

[A]

I don't know. I would have to sit down and think, because there's a whole bunch of obvious issues with the things that I'm saying in terms of how would you figure out what you're allowed to merge with or whatever. But I just think mergers and acquisitions are crazy right now. Like the issue when you talk about SpaceX, like that merger that they did with Xai, if you look at the. There's a name for the presser or whatever, there's a name for the thing that they put out when they're doing their IPO. All like, it's like 80% of the future. What do they call it? Total addressable market that the SpaceX is talking about is in the AI space. That's all that company is looking to become. But people don't even kind of realize that that's where SpaceX is angling towards. But then it's like, should a rocket company be able to merge with a software company? I guess, like, can one company really just own everything? I just, I think it.

[B]

Now you're in the Lena Khan territory, now you're back with your leftist friends on something.

[A]

Yeah, I do. Yeah. But the issue is people just want to not have billionaires or something or they're bad, they're mad about like big companies. I don't know. Like, I do think that something needs to be done about like the vertical and horizontal merger and acquisition thing that exists right now in the United States. I feel like it's not good. I also want to just point out, just a quick thing, a quick finance thing. Jason mentioned that if you didn't want to be involved in any of Elon's companies, you could just start like a synthetic index fund that doesn't include his companies. Whatever. Now nobody would do that because they want to be privileged to those gains. Right. If everybody sees it, an ordinary index fund is gaining, you know, 20% and the synthetic ones are all doing 10% because you're out of Elon's companies. Nobody's going to be in yours. But they constantly. All these, these people. Okay, do you cuss on your show?

[B]

Oh yeah, we cuss.

[A]

You do all these. Okay. All of them cry about DEI and all this. Where the. Were all the synthetic anti DEI company funds. Where the were all the synthetic funds with these horrible affirmative action things. Notice how none of those existed ever. And they needed the government to step in and shut down all that stuff because it was so horrible and illegal and terrible and it would Destroy businesses. But there were no synthetic funds created that didn't have any of that. It really makes you think.

[B]

There were a couple, actually. Just because I monitor MAGA world. There were. There were some grifters, some hucksters that tried to start little anti DI things, but for all the reasons you lay out, no normal people join them because.

[A]

Yeah, and they don't. They don't outperform the market. They suck.

[B]

They all suck. What else is there other stuff you want to talk about? Anything else? It's Friday afternoon. We got the. We got a wrestling match at the White House on Sunday. Anything else you got on your mind? Do you want to tell our viewers about the cancellation controversy happening between Pokemon x and Jiminy's 420 in streaming world?

[A]

No, I'm good on that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

One thing I would like to stress. I don't know if we'll ever come back or what history is going to write about the time period that we're living in now. But actually, I don't know where you are on this because you're a. Or you were a Republican. I don't know when you exactly made the switch.

[B]

Six years.

[A]

Every single thing that Republicans say was like a conspiracy. All of that was true. Like all the Russia gate stuff, like that all actually happened. Roger Stone was communicating with Russia. He was part of Trump's campaign. Manafort went to jail for all of this stuff was real. And everybody. That Hunter Biden laptop story, that was 100% a plant from a Russian dude. Everything about that story is insane. If you actually dig into it, you

[B]

don't think the blind man at the computer repair store was telling the true story there?

[A]

No, I think he was, but I don't think it was Hunter that dropped it off. And the more you dig into it, I think that because that guy is just kind of crazy. He wrote a book, he's got videos, you can tell. He's like a true believer. Like, that's my mom. If somebody would have dropped a thing off, my mom, she would have called Giuliani and figured out how to get that. And they were trying to shop that same material around in Ukraine like a month or two before it even showed up at that guy's repair shop. But every conspiracy theory and all of the center left libs have gotten mind fucked out of talking. They won't touch any of it because they're petrified of being seen as having like Trump derangement syndrome.

[B]

What are some examples? Keep going. Because there's some live, there's some left Conspiracy theories that are crazy. Like we were just talking about Elon, like the idea that SpaceX somehow manipulated the voting machines of 2024. There's some lefties that believe that that's not true.

[A]

That's dumb. Yeah. Although Giuliani was telling Trump that there were French, no, there were Italian satellites that were flipping votes and that's why he lost the 2020 election. Yeah. How crazy that we have federal judges now and every cabinet member can't say who won the 2020 election. How unbelievable is that?

[B]

I mean it's a dark place that we're in. The people, like as stupid as you think the people are around him. It would just boggle the mind, I think, of folks to actually get to meet the high level people that are.

[A]

Because of how stupid they are.

[B]

Yeah, just because of how stupid and how little they know, how little they read. Like the average, the median Destiny reader is like our viewer, excuse me, it's like so far more informed than like the top, the Trump donors and the people in his cabinet, the people that hang around like it really, you know, and this guy, they're just gonna put in a DNI now who is, you know, some fucking former law executive that was, is just like not quite as

[A]

a 36 year old guy.

[B]

No, no, not Bill Pulte. So they're gonna put in Bill Pulte, the fucking housing meme stonk guy. And the Senator's like, this is too fucking crazy. We can'. 36 year old that looks like he's 70 and like who has not done anything in his life, a Nepo baby. So they found this new guy that they're going to put in who you know, just is a more normal. Like he looks like he should be at the country club, you know, you, you is the kind of person that you would encounter, you know, at, in a conference room in New York. You know, he looks the part, he has, he has an actual resume. But if you listen to him talk like he was he previously appointed to prosecutor and I think in Southern District New York, going from memory, but whatever, now they're putting him in a dni and if you listen to him talk about the California elections, he doesn't understand how elections work. Like he, like he doesn't understand how the California elections work. Like what the system is like he's like offering these conspiracy theories that were like if you, I forget doing one minute of research. If you just called somebody that went to vote in California and asked them what the process was, you would be more informed than like, the person now that is going to be the Director of National Intelligence. And, and like, that's, that's just where we're at. Like, we're fully. It's full cacistocracy territory.

[A]

If you ever get. Yeah. If you ever super bored, you. Do you remember the Kraken by, of course, Sidney Powell, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

If you ever go through. And a lot of the tapes are online where they're in these federal courthouses doing these evidentiary hearings. Just the back and forth is hilarious. I remember one, they were like, so in this affidavit, a lady said that she saw a box of ballots on the back of this truck. And they were like, yeah, that's right. And she was like, so why is this here? And they're like, well, it was a box of ballots. And, you know, we think that the top was off for a little bit. And the judge is like, is that illegal? And the, and. And Sydney Powell and her attorney's like, well, we're not sure. That's why we wanted to, you know, go to court over it. And it's like, what do you mean you're not sure? And that's why you're. You should know this before you bring the case. And it's just like, I think that what people don't realize, like, the whole first Trump term was a guy came into office who was legitimately fucking brain dead and didn't know anything about how government worked. And as much as we hate it, the bureaucracy, all of the people that were there that really knew how to run the system, kind of kept it in check. So when Trump wanted to do crazy things like pull out everything from Afghanistan at the very end of his term, when he wanted to throw the full weight of the DOJ onto the states to force them to change their election results, Barr stepped in like these, these guardrails were there when Trump came in the second time. Trump kind of did understand more about how the government worked. And now we have a dysfunctional government because everything is ran out of the White House, not even the executive branch, just the White House. And that idea of putting everybody around him that would just do exactly what he wanted instead of having any functioning government has just been a catastrophe now. And it's because we don't have that bureaucracy that everybody hated before that actually knew how to ransom. Like, these guys can't even get their own indictments, you know, through a grand jury now, is how pathetic the current administration is.

[B]

It's enough to really get you sad. So that's what we're leaving people with on the weekend. I appreciate it, Steven. It's good to see you, man. I appreciate that. I feel like it's appropriate that a former Republican capitalist would be an important guidepost on your journey towards communism.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

Kind of wanted to market and have it on the video record for the future and wait, I guess. One last thing you're doing. You invited me to do something. You're doing some actual, you know, grassroots work or something. You guys have a program. You're doing something to support. Is there something we should promote?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, we have a Discord where I think we raised. It was around $260,000, I think a couple months ago to do. We try to do canvassing. We set up houses, we get people to door knock for moderate damn candidates. It's called Digital Ground Game. I think we have a Discord server. It is Discord, JG slash. It might be DGGPol. DGG Poll, I believe.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So if you're ever looking for ways to get involved and you want to funne political anger through some useful channel, go to there, sign up and see what you can do. Yeah.

[B]

Digital Ground Game. All right, Stephen, we'll see you later, brother.

[A]

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