The RESISTANCE Is BACK! Will The DNC Listen?

Summary

Bulwark Takes: The RESISTANCE Is BACK! Will The DNC Listen?
Release Date: June 17, 2025
Hosts: Sam Stein and Lauren Egan

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Overview

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Sam Stein engages in a comprehensive discussion with Lauren Egan about the resurgence of resistance movements within the Democratic Party, the effectiveness of recent protests, and the internal challenges facing the Democratic National Committee (DNC). The conversation delves into the strategies employed by organizers, the sustainability of activism in the current political climate, and the friction between grassroots movements and established party leadership.

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1. Attendance and Impact of Recent Protests

Lauren Egan recounts her experience attending a "No Kings" protest in Nashville, highlighting the turnout and the diverse demographics of the participants.

Lauren Egan [01:02]: "There were a couple thousand people there in front of the state capitol."

Egan emphasizes the significance of the protest's peaceful nature and the strong communal spirit among attendees, noting the presence of individuals from various parts of the state.

Lauren Egan [01:38]: "And excited to be there."

Sam Stein expresses surprise at Egan's participation, considering Nashville's vibrant nightlife, to which Egan responds by explaining her streaming commitments.

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2. Organizational Strategy of the Resistance Movement

Egan outlines the decentralized approach of current resistance movements, contrasting it with previous protests like the Women's March.

Lauren Egan [03:01]: "They're really purposely trying to make this very broad, very diffuse. There's no one leader, there's no one organization that's doing the whole thing."

This strategy aims to maintain a large and inclusive coalition, allowing each protest to adapt to local issues and leadership, thereby preventing the movement from being dominated by a single entity.

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3. Sustainability and Evolution of Activism

The conversation shifts to the challenges of maintaining momentum in activism over an extended period. Egan reveals unexpected data indicating increased protest participation compared to the early days of Trump's administration.

Lauren Egan [05:05]: "More people have shown up to protest at this point in Trump's administration compared to the same point in 2017."

She attributes this sustained engagement to strategic planning by organizers, who recognize the importance of not overburdening activists and instead focusing on impactful, meaningful actions rather than frequent, smaller protests.

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4. Tactics: Strategic Movements vs. Disruptive Actions

Sam Stein introduces the dual approach of building broad-based movements while simultaneously engaging in disruptive actions to capture public attention.

Sam Stein [07:08]: "It does seem like there's two tracks here. One is to build these movements strategically and pick your spots, and then the other one is to be disruptive in key moments."

Egan concurs, emphasizing that both strategies are essential and should coexist to maximize the movement's effectiveness. She cites specific instances, such as confrontations at political events, as examples of deliberate disruptive tactics designed to highlight key issues.

Lauren Egan [08:07]: "That was a strategic decision to walk into that room."

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5. Internal Challenges Within the Democratic Party

The discussion turns critical as Stein addresses recent turmoil within the DNC, including the resignation of prominent union officials and ongoing drama involving figures like David Hogg.

Sam Stein [13:01]: "This morning and over the weekend, two very prominent union officials [...] asked me. They both resigned from their positions at the DNC."

Egan reflects on the negative impact of internal conflicts, suggesting that such drama undermines the party's broader goals and frustrates activists who view these issues as distractions from the urgent political battles at hand.

Lauren Egan [14:29]: "We have to get our people in line and figure this out."

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6. The Disconnect Between Leadership and Grassroots Activism

Stein and Egan explore the tension between Democratic leadership and grassroots organizers. Stein argues that excessive alignment with party leadership can render the movement less authentic and effective.

Sam Stein [10:25]: "There's always going to be that type of tension... it becomes somewhat less effective."

Egan agrees, pointing out that leaders who trivialize protests or dismiss their significance risk alienating the very base that drives these movements.

Lauren Egan [10:36]: "We're in a crisis moment. It would be great if Democratic leadership didn't undermine that."

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7. Expanding the Movement's Reach

Egan acknowledges concerns about the demographic limitations of current protests, noting that many participants are long-time, highly engaged activists. She highlights efforts to broaden participation across all 50 states, especially in traditionally red areas, to diversify and strengthen the movement's foundation.

Lauren Egan [12:10]: "Part of the strategy was to do this in all 50 states... but I couldn't find anyone who had never been to a protest before."

This strategy aims to attract new participants and ensure the movement’s messages resonate beyond the core group of established activists.

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8. Conclusion: The Path Forward for the Resistance and the DNC

In closing, both Stein and Egan emphasize the critical need for the DNC to address internal divisions and better align with grassroots movements to sustain the resistance's momentum. Egan underscores the urgency of focusing on upcoming midterm elections and building effective strategies to secure legislative victories.

Lauren Egan [15:19]: "There's still no plan to win the Senate, which is something that baffles me."

Stein reiterates the importance of prioritizing unity and strategic planning over internal conflicts to harness the collective power of the resistance movement effectively.

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Notable Quotes

• Lauren Egan [03:37]: "It's strategic. We're trying to keep the coalition big and broad."
• Sam Stein [05:05]: "More people have shown up to protest... which is not what either of us thought."
• Lauren Egan [08:48]: "Creating community around these moments... is impactful and does matter."
• Sam Stein [10:25]: "There's always going to be that type of tension between the movements and the leadership."

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Key Takeaways

• Decentralized Organization: Modern resistance movements within the Democratic Party are intentionally broad and leaderless to maintain inclusivity and adaptability across different regions.

• Sustained Engagement: Contrary to expectations, protest participation has increased, suggesting effective strategic planning by organizers to prevent activist fatigue.

• Dual Tactics: A combination of strategic movement-building and targeted disruptive actions enhances the visibility and impact of the resistance.

• Internal Struggles: The DNC faces significant internal challenges that risk undermining the broader goals of the resistance, highlighting a need for better alignment and leadership.

• Expanding Reach: Efforts are underway to diversify protest participation beyond the core group of long-time activists to strengthen the movement's foundation.

• Future Focus: Addressing internal divisions and prioritizing strategic electoral victories are essential for the sustainability and success of the resistance.

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Further Engagement

For more insights and detailed analysis, subscribe to The Bulwark's newsletter The Opposition and follow their YouTube channel for additional content featuring candid discussions and expert perspectives.

Transcript

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[Sam Stein]

Let's go.

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[Sam Stein]

The numbers look good.

[Lauren Egan]

Brad, you're on mute.

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[Sam Stein]

Hey guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing out at the Bulwark, and I'm joined by Lauren Egan to talk about Democrats, resistance, no kings and drama at the DNC all in one video package for you. Subscribe to the feed. As always, Lauren, how was your weekend?

[Lauren Egan]

It was great. How was yours?

[Sam Stein]

You were in a. You went to a no Kings protest.

[Lauren Egan]

I did. In Nashville, where you're based.

[Sam Stein]

Just so everyone knows, I'm not going to give away your home. I'm not going to give away your home address, but it's important to know that you were down there. What was.

[Lauren Egan]

You didn't send me here. I live here.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

And I went to the Nashville protest. It. There were a couple thousand people there in front of the state capitol.

[Sam Stein]

Is that. Honestly, is it a lot? I don't know. Is that by national standards for Nashville?

[Lauren Egan]

I think that's pretty decent. I mean, Nashville's like a liberal city in a red state.

[Sam Stein]

Right?

[Lauren Egan]

That's. That's pretty. It was a good turnout, I thought.

[Sam Stein]

I'm surprised you left Broadway and all the honky tonk bars they usually go to on the weekends.

[Lauren Egan]

I mean, I started there and then ended there. Obviously, it's in walking distance.

[Sam Stein]

Okay, fair enough.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. Gotta get your honky tonkin first.

[Lauren Egan]

Exactly.

[Sam Stein]

So what was it like? What'd you see?

[Lauren Egan]

There were a ton of American flags. I thought that the organizers did a good job sort of keeping it, which was their intention to keep it really broad in terms of the messaging. It was a lot of stuff revolving around anti fascism, anti authoritarianism. There were some, you know, abolish ice signs as well, but for the most part, it was like people from all over the state too. It wasn't just people from Nashville. There's people with license plates there from, you know, red rural counties outside of here. And it was peaceful and people were, you know, pretty like, communal and. And excited to Be there. What did you do? You didn't go to the DC1, did you?

[Sam Stein]

I did not. I was. I was doing a lot of father stuff.

[Lauren Egan]

Oh, okay.

[Sam Stein]

I'm sorry.

[Lauren Egan]

Father's Day was Sunday.

[Sam Stein]

I took my kid to Fenway park on Saturday. Trying to be a good dad. Sorry if I.

[Lauren Egan]

That's really cute.

[Sam Stein]

Sorry if I was, you know, not working. Who organized these things in Nashville? I was sort of curious about, like, how does this all come together? There's, like, hundreds of events across the country. They say something like, what, 5 million people total in the aggregate? Yeah, it was. I mean, massive. It was. They, you know, they're saying it's larger than the Women's March, our first real sort of national protest against Trump. And I have very little understanding of how it kind of came together.

[Lauren Egan]

It's a bunch of different organizations that are all working on this together. So it's like your typical indivisible move on those kinds of folks. But they're on purpose not making it. Like, you know, one group, like, the Women's March was organized by the Women's March that turned out to be, like, an organization. They're really purposely trying to make this, like, very broad, very diffuse. There's no one leader, there's no one organization that's doing the whole thing. And it's going to look different in different places of the country based off of, like, like, what matters there and what organizations are leading.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, so it's strategic.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, yeah, very much so. I mean, their whole thing is, like, we want to keep the coalition big and broad. And so, you know, we don't want, like, just the ACLU or just indivisible or whatever it might be to be the face of this.

[Sam Stein]

So the PC roe, which I encourage people to read, I mean, we started out, you and I were talking it through before you wrote about it. And we started with the premise that, you know, maybe resistance culture is diminished in the age of Trump 2.0, because it just sort of felt that way. Right. It's like, I remember the first Trump term. There were the protests, the women's march, right away, then the travel ban came, and people were running to the airport to, you know, demand that the travel ban be lifted or at least give legal representation to the people who were showing up. It felt almost immediate that we were in this kind of defensive posture against Trumpism and that liberals were, like, called to arms. And then this go around, it's been. Was it five months, we're 10% into the second term, and we really hadn't experienced that. Absent the Tesla takedown movement and hands off, like, it hadn't really been all that much. And you were talking about, like, well, they did this new travel ban that's even bigger than the first one, and no one really bothered to show up at the airports. And yet in the course of reporting, as these things usually happen, our. Or at least your perception of it became different. Tell. Tell the viewer what you discovered in the process of reporting out this piece.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. So there is some interesting data on this that actually more people have shown up to protest at this point in Trump's administration compared to the Same point in 2017, which I found fascinating because, like, that's not really what either of us thought when we were like, let's go do the story. I think that there's also some strategy by. On behalf of the organizers there as well. I think there is a sense that, like, people are exhausted. You can't ask people to show up to some big protest every single weekend. If you remember back to 2017, there was like, there was always something, right? There was like. Like the march for science and then, like, a march for families.

[Sam Stein]

I don't remember the march first.

[Lauren Egan]

Okay. The march for science was a big one.

[Sam Stein]

I didn't. I forgot about it.

[Lauren Egan]

But, like, I think that speaks to it. Like, there was just all these different things, and, like, you could go to something literally every weekend and there would be people there. And there's a sense that, like, that doesn't actually really work this time around. Like, we're, you know, 10 years. What today's 10. 10 years into Donald Trump's emergence on the political scene. And.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, well, I don't. I think he emerged. Pride. This is a technical point. He had been like, a big birther and stuff, and he.

[Lauren Egan]

But, yeah, like.

[Sam Stein]

But yes, you know, 10 years since he came down.

[Lauren Egan]

Yes. And so there's a sense that, like, you can't sustain, like, a certain amount of outrage for too long. And there's also a recognition that, like, Democrats really need to sort of expand the tent this time around. So having a protest. It's a march for science or things like that just isn't going to work this time around. It has to be, like, much bigger picture and a much broader message. And so, I mean, that's what we saw with the people.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, but there's the kind of. It is interesting because there's also this. The other element of it is, though, you know, there's these marches which are happening or at least happen this weekend, and they're massive in scope, obviously. And then there's this, you know, what the lawmakers are kind of discovering they have to do, which is create moments, viral moments. And so you. I'm not saying Padilla went out to try to get arrested and handcuffed or anything like that, but, like, you had a disruption at a Christy Noem event. You had the governors of some of the big Democratic states show up on Capitol Hill and just kind of throw it right back at the Republican lawmakers. You have Chris Murphy in your piece being like, we need to, like, really step up on the urgency and get really combative. It does seem like there's two tracks here. One is to build these movements strategically and pick your spots, and then the other one is to be disruptive in key moments, which Democrats seem to be understanding is the way to get attention in the modern age.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, but I mean, I think they're both, like, strategic efforts.

[Sam Stein]

How so? Well, I guess I understand that. Yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

Well, yeah, like, Padilla sure didn't go there, you know, thinking that that was going to play out how it did, but I think.

[Sam Stein]

Right, but he did go there. He did go there to check it out, and he did confront her, right?

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, yeah. That was a strategic decision to walk into that room. And I'm sure it crossed his mind that some weird shit could happen if he went into that room and he chose to still go. Right. Like, he was not going to walk away from whatever might unfold if he. If you went into the room. And then I think, you know, the protests are kind of like the organizers will say, like, you have to do both things at once. It has to be both of these tracks. And I think there's a sense that, like, creating. It sounds corny, but, like, creating community around these moments, too, and bringing out billions of people is impactful and does matter, just not every weekend.

[Sam Stein]

That last sentence, it sounds like you work for McKinsey, like a real consultant. Speak, create community in these environments. What are the organizers think about the state of Democratic leadership right now?

[Lauren Egan]

No one's happy. I think there is a sense that perhaps this past week was a turning point. A lot of people saw what happened with Padilla and felt really encouraged. At the same time, they were like, why are Democrats looking at everything that's happening with ICE in LA and these protests with LA and just calling this a distraction? Remember, that was the talking point from a lot of people last week.

[Sam Stein]

Still. Still is kind of the talking point for some. Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Egan]

So I think there's signs of hope but at the same time, a deep frustration. And I will say some of the organizers were like, look, at this point, we're not really looking to Hakeem Jeffries to tell us what to do. Like, we're just going to do it and we're just going to figure this out on our own. Which is, you know, a discouraging thing to feel.

[Sam Stein]

Well, I was sort of grappling with this when I read your pieces. Like, these two things don't. I mean, you can't have a comprehensive, effective grassroots protest movement if it's too aligned with elected leadership. Right. If it feels like it's organized and orchestrated, then it becomes astroturfy in a way, and that makes it somewhat less effective. So there is some. There's always going to be that type of tension, I think, between the movements and the leadership, and it's always going to feel a little uncomfortable when the leadership tries to, like, co op the movement or get in on it. Like Chuck Schumer showing up with a bullhorn or something like that.

[Lauren Egan]

Totally. I think the frustration, though, is that that's definitely true. Chuck Schumer should not show up with the bullhorn, but.

[Sam Stein]

Or his flip phone.

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah. I think from a lot of the activists and the organizers, the frustration, though, is that they're saying, we believe that this is a turning point in American history and American democracy. We're in a crisis moment. It would be great if Democratic leadership didn't undermine that by saying, what's going on in LA is a distraction. So I think there's a sense that they're, like, actively working against the message and the urgency that they're trying to bring to this moment.

[Sam Stein]

It's all anecdotal, obviously, but there is also the criticism that this protest, the no King's protests, and some of obviously the Tesla stuff, but that it's just kind of like these are politically engaged, highly educated liberals and that these are people who probably have accounts on Blue sky and watch MSNBC all day. And it's not. They're just dissatisfied, but it's not actually materially important because the people they need to win over aren't really participating in this stuff. I know you're just at one protest, so I'm not saying, oh, is it true? But is there concern among organizers that they're limited in their scope of reach, or are there efforts underway to try to expand the people they're reaching to?

[Lauren Egan]

Yeah, they're definitely worried about that. Part of the strategy around no Hands was to do this.

[Sam Stein]

No Hands, Sorry, no kings. Hands off.

[Lauren Egan]

No kings. Hands off. I'm just combining the two.

[Sam Stein]

No hands and take down that Tesla king.

[Lauren Egan]

All right, wait, that was, that was bad. No. Part of the strategy was to do this in all 50 states, so get it like outside of D.C. outside of, you know, coastal cities, and to do it in red parts of the country, like small towns. And they did have success with that. But, you know, just from, from my experience here in Nashville, I was. Went around talking to a bunch of people and I was trying to find someone who had never been to a protest before. And I couldn't. No, I, I couldn't find anyone. Right. I sure someone was there. Who. I just didn't talk to them. So I do think that's. That's definitely a problem they have. A lot of the people I talked to were people that showed up, you know, during the first Trump administration, super engaged voters that are going to be voting for Democrats no matter what.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah. I'm not saying that's like, it's not bad. Useless. It's important to keep those people engaged. I mean, that, that you have to have them turn out if you have a chance. That kind of brings me, I guess, to the last topic, which is the actual Democratic infrastructure here. You know, they're not. Like I just said, I don't think they should be participating in this stuff too aggressively because it could tank the stuff. At the same time, having a functioning DNC kind of matters to, you know, win and run one run in and win elections. And what we see today and what we saw last week is really a DNC that hasn't gotten its shit together, to be honest. I mean, David Hogg, that whole fiasco, I've made my position clear on that. I don't think it makes sense to have someone at the dnc, a vice president, running campaigns to unseat Democrats, even if you think those Democrats suck. But whatever. Put that aside then. This morning and over the weekend, two very prominent union officials, Randy Weigarten and Lee Saunders, teachers union and afl, not AFL CEO, asked me. They both resigned from their positions at the dnc. And the people I'm talking to are like this, you know, maybe had to do with Hogg. Maybe it had to do with the fact that they were both prominent supporters for Ben Wickler, who was the other candidate who lost to Ken Martin. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's not good to have this type of dysfunction inside the party, at the main apparatus, and it certainly doesn't seem good for them to be this disorganized. At this point in time?

[Lauren Egan]

No. And I think this is Democrats problem. Like, they just shoot themselves in the foot with their own drama a lot. And this is exactly what is happening at the DNC right now. And I think the hog stuff was complicated for Ken Martin to deal with. There's no doubt about it. But it's kind of like you gotta get your people in line and figure this out.

[Sam Stein]

Well, it gets. And I don't mean to interpret, but it gets to your earlier point, which is like, here you have millions of people coming out being like, this is an existential threat. And then the people who are supposed to be at the tip of the spear fighting it are like, oh, I don't really like your style. And, oh, my God, you're doing this and I'm quitting. And maybe they have valid reasons to quit, and I'm not trying to dismiss that, but it's like, it couldn't be more diametrically different attitudes about the current moment.

[Lauren Egan]

Right? Like, right. If it's in an existential moment, then act like it and put your big kid pants on and get over whatever, like, drama y' all have and get to work on midterms. There's still no plan to win the Senate, which is something that baffles me. I have not seen anything like that. And meanwhile, how much time have we spent talking about David Hogg and the DNC drama over the past really months at this point?

[Sam Stein]

I know, it's crazy. The prioritization here is out of whack. All right, Lauren, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Thank you for your service. You can take a comp day to go back to the Honky Tonk bars if needed. I know you need your fill of Broadway. I get it. I've been there. One shot of whiskey, one beer. All right. Lauren Egan. Read her newsletter, the Opposition. Subscribe to the newsletter and subscribe to our YouTube feed. We get great content like this where Lauren heckles me for a good 15 minutes and I deal with it. Till then, don't shake your head. It's all good. Till then. We'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye.