The Trump Administration Are Cruel And Heartless Bastards For This

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Episode Summary

Title: The Trump Administration Are Cruel And Heartless Bastards For This
Host/Author: The Bulwark
Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this intense episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller delves into a harrowing issue involving the deportation of Venezuelan nationals to El Salvador. Joined by experts Noah Lenard and Isabella Diaz from Mother Jones, Miller dissects the alarming reports of innocent individuals being sent to a hostile environment based primarily on dubious evidence such as tattoos.

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The Deportation of Venezuelans to El Salvador

The conversation kicks off with Tim Miller referencing a Mother Jones article titled "You’re Here Because of Your Tattoos," authored by Noah Lenard and Isabella Diaz. The article exposes the plight of approximately 238 Venezuelans deported by the Trump administration to El Salvador under questionable circumstances.

Key Points:

• Lack of Official Records: Initially, there was no official list confirming the deportees' presence in El Salvador, causing immense anxiety among families.
• Identification through Tattoos: Families identified their loved ones through Salvadoran government-released propaganda photos, focusing on distinctive tattoos.

Notable Quote:

Noah Lenard [00:44]: “We spoke to 10 families and lawyers of people sent to El Salvador. Some recognized their relatives in fascistic propaganda photos, while others inferred their loved ones' location after false assurances of deportation to Venezuela.”

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Emotional Toll on Families

Isabella Diaz elaborates on the emotional devastation experienced by the families who lost contact with their relatives around March 15, when deportation flights departed.

Key Points:

• Immediate Impact: Families went from hopeful anticipation to desperate search within days.
• Inhumane Treatment: Deported individuals were placed in the terrorism confinement center, garbed in white uniforms with shaved heads and shackled.

Notable Quote:

Isabella Diaz [01:39]: “These men were sent to the terrorism confinement center, with white prison uniforms and shaved heads. Families frantically searched for any identifying evidence, like a rose tattoo peeking through a t-shirt.”

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Legal Challenges and Recourse

The discussion shifts to the murky legal landscape faced by the deportees, highlighting the limited options for recourse once individuals are in foreign custody.

Key Points:

• Ongoing Lawsuits: The ACLU is involved in lawsuits representing about two-thirds of the deportees, challenging the Trump administration's actions that bypassed court orders.
• Judicial Skepticism: Courts are uncertain about their authority over individuals now held by a foreign government.
• Financial Implications: The U.S. is funding the detention with $6 million, potentially opening avenues for legal action.

Notable Quotes:

Noah Lenard [03:05]: “There's a lawsuit by the ACLU for some of the people sent to El Salvador, challenging the Trump admin's bypassing of court orders.”

Isabella Diaz [03:39]: “Many deportees had legitimate asylum claims, some facing political persecution from Maduro-aligned paramilitary groups, yet they were sent to El Salvador without due process.”

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Case Studies: Innocent Lives Torn Apart

Tim Miller and his guests examine specific cases to illustrate the arbitrary and unjust nature of the deportations.

Neri Alvarado

Neri Alvarado, a beloved community member and advocate for children with developmental disabilities, becomes a focal point.

Key Points:

• Community Involvement: Neri was a volunteer at a swim club supporting children with autism, including his own brother.
• Tattoo Misidentification: His innocuous tattoos, including an autism awareness ribbon and the word "familia," led to his wrongful detention.
• Law Enforcement Missteps: Despite explaining his tattoos to ICE agents, he was still detained and deported.

Notable Quote:

Noah Lenard [06:12]: “Neri is the type of person who would never hurt a fly. His tattoos were harmless, yet they labeled him as a gang member, leading to his unjust detention.”

Arturo Suarez Trejo

Arturo Suarez Trejo, a singer and father, faced similar fate despite having no criminal background.

Key Points:

• Family Separation: Arturo was deported while his pregnant wife remained in the U.S., disrupting their plans to support their newborn.
• Innocuous Tattoos: His tattoos, such as a hummingbird symbolizing harmony, were misconstrued as gang affiliations.
• Lack of Due Process: Arturo had upcoming court dates and legitimate plans that were disregarded by ICE.

Notable Quote:

Isabella Diaz [10:16]: “Arturo was planning to support his family’s new life in the U.S., but instead was sent to a maximum security prison in El Salvador based solely on his harmless tattoos.”

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Systemic Issues and Government Accountability

The episode critiques the systemic failures and the administration's reliance on superficial indicators like tattoos to justify deportations.

Key Points:

• Reliance on Alien Enemies Act Guidelines: DHS uses a flawed point system where tattoos contribute significantly to the classification of individuals as threats.
• Expert Consensus: Experts agree that tattoos are not reliable indicators of gang membership or criminal intent.
• Government Silence: Despite repeated inquiries, DHS and ICE have not provided substantial evidence beyond tattoos to justify the deportations.

Notable Quotes:

Isabella Diaz [18:38]: “DHS relies on the Alien Enemies Act where a tattoo is worth four points towards being classified as a gang member. Experts agree that tattoos are an unreliable signifier of gang affiliation.”

Noah Lenard [19:18]: “There has been zero response from ICE and DHS even after our exhaustive reporting, highlighting a blatant disregard for due process.”

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Government Response and Public Perception

The government has been defensive, offering vague assurances while failing to provide concrete evidence, thereby silencing legitimate dissent and concern.

Key Points:

• DHS Spokesperson's Vague Assurances: Trisha McLaughlin’s statements hint at additional evidence without specifics, creating a chilling effect on critics.
• Political Ramifications: Democratic politicians are hesitant to challenge the administration due to potential backlash and lack of transparency from DHS.

Notable Quote:

Tim Miller [16:21]: “DHS spokesperson Trisha McLaughlin claims there is more evidence against deportees, but fails to provide tangible proof, silencing meaningful debate and concern.”

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Conclusion and Call to Action

The episode concludes with a strong critique of the Trump administration’s policies, highlighting the urgent need for accountability and the protection of due process rights. Miller emphasizes the importance of continued investigative journalism to shed light on these injustices and support affected families.

Notable Quote:

Noah Lenard [19:35]: “This should have been handled in a courtroom with proper due process, not through arbitrary deportations based on superficial evidence like tattoos.”

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Final Thoughts

Bulwark Takes presents a compelling and emotionally charged examination of the Trump administration's deportation practices, revealing a pattern of cruelty and disregard for human rights. Through detailed reporting and personal testimonies, the episode underscores the critical need for systemic reform and greater transparency in immigration enforcement.

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Transcript References:

• Tim Miller: [00:00] – [19:45]
• Noah Lenard: [00:20] – [19:31]
• Isabella Diaz: [00:21] – [19:44]

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

Hey, guys, it's Tim Miller from the Bulwark. I'm here with Noah Lenard and Isabella Diaz of Mother Jones. They wrote this great piece I've been referencing last week about the Venezuelans that we have sent to the El Salvador hellhole. It was called you'd're Here because of youf Tattoos. And I wanted to talk to you guys about the story. Thanks for doing this.

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah, thanks for having us on.

[Isabella Diaz]

Yeah, thank you.

[Tim Miller]

So you guys have talked. You said in the article, two family members of 10 of the Venezuelans that we've sent to El Salvador. I guess we think there's somewhere between 238, maybe more total that have been sent. I want to go through a couple of the specific people that you talk about, but just broadly kind of. What are you hearing? What are you learning from those conversations with these family members?

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah, absolutely. So we spoke to, like you said, 10 families, lawyers, relatives of people who had been sent to El Salvador. And when we first started talking to them, we weren't sure they were in El Salvador and their relatives weren't because there was no official list. So it was a really kind of horrific situation where some of them had maybe recognized a relative in one of the very fascistic propaganda photos that the government put out in El Salvador. Others just said, like, oh, we talked to them. He said he was going back to Venezuela. He never arrived, therefore, he's probably in El Salvador. So that's where things stood as we started reporting it. And, yeah, we were finding these people on social media through their lawyers, kind of all over the place.

[Tim Miller]

I can't even imagine, just, like, the horror of some of the family members, like, where you see these videos of them, you know, their head shaved, like, they put their head down, being treated just really horribly, shackled. I mean, what was it like? How were they dealing with processing this emotionally?

[Isabella Diaz]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of an unimaginable situation to be in. You know, in most of the cases, the families had no news of their relatives and loved ones for a few days since March 15 when the planes took off. And so they were doing this kind of desperate scouting of the Internet for any clue, looking at photos that the Salvadoran government released, like you said. And all of these men were sent to the terrorism confinement center, were put in these white prison uniforms. They had their heads shaved. And so these family members were looking for any evidence, know, trying to identify them based on tattoos. So, you know, seeing a rose on the neck that was, like, peeking through the white t. Shirt. And that's how they. They learned of the fate of their relatives. And then later on, when CBS News released a list of the 238 or so men who had been sent to El Salvador, they had the final confirmation.

[Tim Miller]

And your conversation with the lawyers, like, at this point, the legal recourse here is pretty murky. Right. Because if they were, you know, if they were still on American soil, you know, then I think they would have greater ability to obviously access their clients, for example, etc. So, like, what, what are the lawyers saying about this process? I mean, are they, you know, fatalistic about it? Are there options?

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah, so there's a lawsuit that covers some of the people sent there, about two thirds of the people now from the aclu, and that's the one that's been getting a lot of press attention, the one where the Trump admin flouted the court order. But yeah, I mean, it seems like from the court hearings we've been listening to is they're not super optimistic or the judge isn't certain that he has authority over these people anymore because they are now in the custody of a foreign government. So, I mean, we are paying. The U.S. united States is paying for $6 million for them. So maybe there's some recourse there. But I wouldn't say there's a ton of optimism, but Isabella would.

[Isabella Diaz]

Yeah. And I think, you know, we know for a fact that some of the men who were sent to El Salvador without due process, they had upcoming hearings in U.S. immigration courts. Some of those hearings were for asylum cases where they might have legitimate claims. One of the people we write about in the story, his lawyer said he had a very good case for fleeing political persecution from paramilitary groups aligned with the Maduro regime in Venezuela. You know, they were sent to this maximum security prison in El Salvador without having an opportunity to show any evidence before an immigration judge. A lot of them also came through legal pathways through the cbp, open cbp, one application from the Biden administration, and they had their hearings moved and then were deported shortly before they were supposed to appear in court.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. I think this is an important point, though, in you guys. So many, but at least in like many of the cases I've read, maybe even all of them, these men were coming through like, at least quasi legal means. Right. It's not like they were sneaking across the border and had been captured. Like, some of them were in third countries, either Mexico or Colombia, you know, applying, going through the process. As you mentioned, some of them came to the border, but Then, you know, said they had an asylum claim. They use the CBP1 app that the Trump administration shut down, but was the legal way to kind of get a hearing during the Biden administration. So, like, a lot of the pushback that you saw from Victoria Sparks this weekend was like, these guys are illegal. You don't get due process if you come illegally. But I know the folks you talk to, and it seems like, did they all, or at least most of them were trying to come through legal pathways?

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah, everyone, I think. I think everyone that we talked to was certainly trying to come through legal pathways. Many officially came to the border ports of entry through, like Isabella said, through the CBP1 application. And even in the other cases, you know, no one we talked to that I'm aware of tried to sneak into the country. You know, for example, in one of the cases, you know, Nerio Alvarado, he came, he left Venezuela in late October, got. But he only ended up entering the US In April because he was stuck, basically, waiting for one of these appointments for months. And when he couldn't get one, he just walked over and turned himself into a border patrol agent, which is what a lot of people were doing at that point. So that technically, under the law, counts as an illegal entry. But, you know, the goal is to get yourselves into US Custody so you can present your asylum case.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Well, let's talk about some of these cases in particular, since you mentioned Neri Alvarado, we'll start with him. Folks will be familiar because we've been talking about him. This is the guy that had the autism awareness tattoo, kind of had, like, the rainbow ribbon tattoo. Talk about his case.

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah, so this was one that really stood out to us. I mean, we came across it because saw a TikTok, actually, from the bakery that he worked at in Dallas. They had posted a TikTok basically in Spanish saying, like, one of our star bakers has been sent to El Salvador. So we called the bakery, got in touch with his boss, who was a great guy, had become his friend. And basically at that point, we were talking on Thursday about 10 days ago, and, you know, he wasn't entirely sure yet that his. His friend was in El Salvador, but he was. He was pretty sure because, you know, he had made the calls around and he didn't. Hadn't shown up in Venezuela as they'd been expecting. But, yeah, I mean, there he was. I mean, from everything we learned from our reporting is just a completely, as his boss described him, a standup guy. I talked to his older sister. And it was just like the love that she had for him was so clear. I mean, I said, like, what type of guy is he? How would you describe him? It's like, oh, he's the type of person who would never hurt a fly. Anyone who spends even an hour with Neri will tell you what a nice guy, what a sweet person he is. And. And that's evidenced, too, by a video that we shared last week, too. You know, it's a video made by the swim club where he volunteered and worked helping children with developmental disabilities, including his brother, who's 15 and has autism. And that was part of the reason he went to the United States was to support his brother. And he has a big tattoo that's an autism awareness ribbon with his brother's name, as you mentioned. And then his two other tattoos are similarly innocuous. One's in English, it says brother, brothers, and the other says familia. I mean, you could not have more innocuous tattoos. Yet that seems to be how he got in this dragnet.

[Tim Miller]

It's quite the COVID for being a gang member volunteering at a youth autism swimming meat camp. He was the one that you guys specifically said, I guess you said Hernandez spoke to Alvarado. Was that Hernandez's boss?

[Noah Lenard]

Yes, that's right.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. So his boss spoke to him before he sent El Salvador, and he said, there are 90 of us here. We all have tattoos. We're all detained for the same reasons. From what they told me, we're all going to be deported. So I, like, that's like a first person evidence that, like, that's what they were telling them, that it was these tattoos were the reason they were being sent to. Well, they didn't know at the time being sent to El Salvador, but that's. That was essentially the justification.

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah. And that's the second time that that had come up in this case. And that's why Hernandez is such a, I think, important witness here, is because he's a US Citizen. He's lived. He's Venezuelan, but he's lived in the United States for about three decades. And so he was able to visit Neri in detention as this was happening in a way that a lot of these family members in Venezuela were not able to. So he actually visited Neri one day after he was detained as well. He was detained on February 5 by ICE. They showed up outside of his apartment and said, neri Alvarado, we're looking for you. They ended up bringing him into the Dallas field office, and there they said, do you know why you're here? And according to Hernandez, they said, you know, we're looking for people with tattoos, Venezuelans with tattoos. We know you have them. Why don't you explain them? He ends up explaining his tattoos. And just like any normal person, this apparently Puerto Rican ICE agent said, you know, you're, you're good, but why don't you go down the hall and just like check maybe with my supervisor or another ICE agent. And for reasons that remain unclear to me, they ended up hauling him into detention anyway, even though an ICE agent had said, yeah, you don't have anything to do with Trend Air Agua.

[Isabella Diaz]

You know, there is like, there's been some great reporting about this in the Washington Post and elsewhere. It seems like a lot of these Venezuelan men were targeted, you know, for ICE detention sometime in like late January and then February picked up during or, you know, your routine ICE check and over suspicions, you know, about their tattoos, like we show in our piece, a lot of them with most of them without any, you know, relevant as a signal of any type of, you know, criminal activity or tied to gang affiliation.

[Tim Miller]

So, yeah, you lead the story with another example of Arturo Trejo. I might be a butcher.

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah. Arturo Suarez Trejo. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Yes. And has a 3 month old child and is a singer. And I guess, I guess you spoke to his wife. And also a similar situation where no criminal record. This is all based on the tattoos. Talk about that conversation.

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah, so that one we had come across a Venezuelan news outlet, El Estimolo, had, had covered him and got in touch with, so older brother Nelson and Natalie through that. And yeah, I mean, last year, late last year, him and his wife Natalie were planning to go to the United States together. They realized that she was pregnant and pretty far along into her pregnancy, so he ended up going by himself and then he was going to work in the United States, as he ended up doing, to help support his wife and newborn baby girl. And instead he ends up also getting detained in early February. In that case, it seemed like ICE had gone to his house because they were looking for someone there. They found that person, then they just ended up arresting everyone who was in the house. And like a lot of the other cases we highlighted, he had an upcoming court date. He's supposed to be in court. I think it's on this Wednesday or Thursday. And he's not gonna be there because he is in El Salvador and he's one of the people. His wife recognized him in the video. He has a tattoo of a hummingbird on his Neck, which she told me, you know, it's supposed to represent, you know, harmony and good vibes, good energy, very innocuous. And like you said. Yeah, he's a singer. He's a very good singer, too. Like, if you watch his music videos under the name Suarez Vzla, like, they're. They're good music videos. Someone who was coming here to advance that career and also work here and support his family.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I mean, it seemed like that story also. It was like she's like, okay, well, if I'm going to get deported, at least I'm going to get deported back to Venezuela. I can see my baby. And instead, like, we sent him to a gulag.

[Isabella Diaz]

Right. It's like, you know, these people had no idea that they were going to be sent to a foreign country. Right. They were told directly in many cases they were going to be deported to Venezuela. And in some cases, they expressed relief that they were going to be, you know, reunited with their families and, you know, meet their newborn children. So, you know, a lot of the family members described to us this situation as a kidnapping, essentially, you know, and their loved ones being tricked by the US Government and. Yeah. Sent to El Salvador.

[Tim Miller]

Are there any other examples? I mean, you talked about this Frisco Ralph, William. I mean, just talk about any of the other specific folks who you spoke to their families.

[Isabella Diaz]

Yes, we talked to Fritzgerald's brother Carlos, who is in Caracas, Venezuela, and he talked about how they had. They owned this, like, streetwear, you know, sportswear brand in Venezuela, this business. And that Fritz Jarov came to the United States in hope of expanding, you know, that business. He waited for several months in Mexico for cbp, one appointment. He was, you know, he was with other family members who were kind of let in and. And had. And he was held back, supposedly over his tattoos. And he was sent to an ICE detention in Louisiana. And we also, we got to see some messages that he actually sent to his family while he was detained in Louisiana, you know, talking about how he never imagined that he would be imprisoned over tattoos. He had obtained a declaration from his tattoo artist, essentially saying, you know, this is a creative, you know, kind of work. There's nothing, you know, meaningful behind this. Like, you know, he's a. No. Someone who has no criminal record. He didn't have an order of deportation. And, you know, still he thought he was going to be going to Venezuela. And he, too, ended up in El Salvador. And there was another also sister we talked to who said that her brother didn't even have A tattoo. Before he left Venezuela, he got a tattoo in Mexico. A tattoo of a clock that he got as a gift from his roommate as they were both waiting for the CBP1 appointment. And this roommate, you know, got the date before him. And to celebrate they went and got a tattoo together. So he didn't even have a tattoo when he was in Venezuela. And I think that speaks a lot to.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, and it's kind of crazy. So you spoke to 10 of the 10 folks or, you know, family members or lawyers, whatever, related to 10 of the people that have been sent there. It doesn't seem like the one that's gotten the most attention that we've been talking about a lot is this makeup artist, Andre. And he isn't in your story even. So that's another person. What is your set like in these conversations? Do you talk to anybody? And you're like, I don't know, that guy might be a gang member. I mean, it's like, it's hard to believe. And it's one thing to say like one or two people got through. We need to focus on elevating these stories. It was a fuck up. We need to get the makeup artist home. And I believe that. So another thing to like seem like if it is at scale that potentially many of these people are wrongly accused, what's your sense for that?

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah, we've probably so. After CBS published its list, we've now searched for a majority or not a majority, but probably close to 100 of the people on that list. And yeah, in a minority of cases, I want to say 10% maybe I've seen evidence that such and such person was arrested in this place for some sort of criminal offense. Doesn't mean necessarily that they were convicted either of that offense. But you know, I was a small minority of the cases and from the ones, you know, we weren't, we were talking to anyone we could talk to. And it's, it's quite telling that all 10 of them had tattoos. You know, we weren't looking for people with tattoos and we weren't sure what the story was going to be when we started it because it was all so new. And yeah, I mean, like you said, and when Neri mentioned, you know, he's in this detention center in Texas and he looks around basically and says, oh, everyone here, there's 90 of us, we all have tattoos. I've also been told they were looking for people with tattoos. I guess that's why we're here. And of course, you know, maybe some of those people who had tattoos, had a prior arrest. But, you know, from what we've been able to see so far, that's a minority of the people. And it also would help here if the government who has sent these people to El Salvador with no due process or recourse, would provide any information. You know, like, before we published this story, every single person who's named in the article, we sent their name to ICE and DHS saying, you know, if you have evidence that this person is a criminal or a terrorist or to use their language, they're calling these people heinous monsters. You know, please provide anything. And zero response. And zero response, even after this article.

[Tim Miller]

And we've seen the DHS spokesperson, Trisha McLaughlin, like, sending things. And I think this is important because this is what the government's saying right now. She's like, quote, tweeted or whatever, various people online who have been pointing out, you know, that these cases seem very weak. You know, by saying, oh, no, we have more evidence. We have more evidence. It's not just the tattoos. And she said things that regard. And I think that is creating at some level, like, a chilling effect on people speaking out, particularly politicians speaking out. I think that there is a concern, you know, if you're a democratic politician, you're like, I don't want to stick my neck out and have, you know, and have Danit come afterwards, that the person that I was saying was wrongfully detained actually was a gang member in Trinidad or actually committed a rape or whatever. And so I think that they're like, kind of vague assurances that, no, they've got more material and all these people is contributing. So I don't know what is your guys. And I think that's the important part of, like, continuing to tell more and more of these stories, right, because there is this caution to. Towards speaking out about it.

[Isabella Diaz]

And, you know, I mean, the administration themselves, they've admitted in court filings that many of these Venezuelans have no criminal history. You know, they have tried to, like, reassure, I guess, the American public that, you know, they are going through this rigorous process to identify the alleged gang members. And, you know, talking about how they are not just relying on social media posts or hand gestures or tattoos. But, you know, since our story came out, there has been more evidence. The ACLU obtained this, you know, internal documents that shows that DHS appears to be relying on this, you know, Alien Enemies act validation guide where they attribute points to, you know, the alleged gang members to be deported. So, you know, a tattoo is worth four points you know, being associated in some way leaving the same residence as someone who is alleged to be a trend that I want, you know, so that's kind of the system that they seem to be following. And, you know, there are plenty of experts. Experts out there that can tell you that, you know, tattoos are not really, you know, a trustworthy kind of signifier of. Of Taga membership.

[Noah Lenard]

Yeah. And two, oh, two quick things out on that is like one with a judge there, one of these. In a different legal case, this came up in the Trend Aragua accusation. You know, the government submitted its evidence for why this person was trend. A federal judge, like, said. I was, like, it was the end of the day, and I was kind of falling asleep at that point of the day, and I read your declaration, and it was so horrific. It woke me up. Like I would normally in a criminal case, I would throw you out of court if you tried to submit this kind of evidence. And the second thing is, like, this is why we have due process in this country. Like, we shouldn't be having this conversation now, us as journalists, saying, like, hey, these people who are disappeared in Del Salvador, you know, to the best of our knowledge, are completely innocent of the allegations. Like, this should have been happening in a courtroom before a judge and the prosecutor and the defense attorney.

[Tim Miller]

And just to be clear, like, even since your story is out, you've not heard from any spokesperson with government, anybody at I. Anybody at dhs, like, offering more tangible evidence that these people are criminals? Beyond the tattoos, zero.

[Noah Lenard]

On or off the record, nothing truly remarkable.

[Tim Miller]

Guys, thank you so much for your work. Noah and Isabella, we'll keep monitoring as you guys are covering this story, and we'll talk to you soon.

[Noah Lenard]

All right, thanks for having us on.

[Isabella Diaz]

Thank you.