Lisa (3:57)

Joining us now, host of the Bulwark Podcast, MSNBC political analyst Tim Miller. Max is still with us. Tim, when you get Jon Stewart on a Thursday night, you know that it is big consequential news. But let's start with that sound of the president on Air Force One. I mean, there's no subtext. He is telling us what this is about. This is about the mysterious 97% of bad coverage.

Tim Miller (4:22)

Yeah. Who needs me on the show? Lisa, you could have just played the whole Daily show from last night. I considered it, Tim.

Lisa (4:27)

I considered it.

Tim Miller (4:30)

I'm gonna do my best to add to what those great comedians were doing. Look, it's a real threat. And so it's a serious threat. But it's also a good sign that all those guys were out there last night mocking him. I think that's the right posture towards treating Donald Trump. It's the thing that he abides the least, getting mocked. And when it comes to these other threats about how he might come for the licenses and the networks, there was some suggestion by Brendan Carr, I think that the View or Saturday Night Live and some of these other late night shows might be next. Those are real scary threats. They aren't with precedent in our lifetimes, at least coming directly from the government. And I think that the problem that I see, though is that too many people are folding to the fear. They haven't actually done anything. They've made threats. That's bad, it's inappropriate. Some of they should be taken to court, but nobody's licenses were gonna be taken away. They weren't Gonna the Brendan Carr can't take Jimmy Kimmel off the air. Bob Iger took him off the air. And I think that if right now, I think that the right posture towards this administration's aspiring authoritarianism is to stand up to it, say no. Okay, do it. Let's see. Try me. And, you know, maybe Donald Trump calls the bluff. Maybe Donald Trump tacos. But I think the most concerning thing for me right now, and I'm extremely concerned about Donald Trump, but the most concerning thing is the response to him, you know, and how easily people are folding in the face of these threats. That might just be bluster. I mean, the guy tweets out all kinds of crazy stuff all the time. You know, I don't know that people need to be quite so responsive to it.

Lisa (6:20)

This afternoon, Republican Senator Ted Cruz addressed the FCC's pressure to censor Jimmy Kimmel. It is likely going to surprise you. So take a look.

Ted Cruz (6:29)

I think it is unbelievably dangerous for government to put itself in the position of saying, we're going to decide what speech we like and what we don't. And we're going to threaten to take you off air if we don't like what you're saying. And it might feel good right now to threaten Jimmy Kimmel.

Tim Miller (6:47)

Yeah.

Ted Cruz (6:47)

But when it is used to silence every conservative in America, we will regret it. And so, again, I like Brendan Carr, but we should not be in this business. We should denounce it. It's fine to say what Jimmy Kimmel said was deplorable, it was disgraceful, and he should be off air, but we shouldn't be threatening government power to force him off air. That's a real mistake.

Lisa (7:12)

And we are back with Tim and with Max. Tim, your response to what we just heard from the senator.

Tim Miller (7:17)

Well, should we start with the good or the bad? We'll start with the bad, and then we can compliment him on the backside. He didn't mention Donald Trump. None of these guys ever mentioned Donald Trump. And we've had the space of courage from people on the right. We should say not just Cruz, but a bunch of the right wing commentators spoke out against Pam Bondi last week when she said that the Department of Justice was gonna go after hate speech in the wake of Kirk's death. I think that obviously there's some conservatives for whom their obsession over free speech. Obsession's probably the wrong word. There's some conservatives for whom their use of arguing for free speech was maybe more of a political power play in retrospect. And they don't really care that much about it. But there are some conservatives who genuinely care about Free Speec, and they've gone after Pam Bondi, and now we've seen Ted Cruz rightly go after Brendan Carr. They always seem to, though, not mention Donald Trump's name. And Donald Trump has not only agreed with Carr, but said he should go further, and not only agreed with Bondi, but said she should go further. So I would need a little bit more from Ted Cruz to give him full kudos, to give him a standing ovation. But we'll give him one clap for that, and I'm happy that he's out there saying it.

Lisa (8:26)

You're giving the Nancy Pelosi State of the Union clap for that one.

Tim Miller (8:29)

A snap, maybe a snap.

Lisa (8:31)

I've only got about 30 seconds left, but I do wonder if you think this is breaking through with folks who might not watch, you know, politics as closely as you and I do.

Tim Miller (8:41)

I do think so. I think that, you know, obviously there are some MAGA folks who are disingenuous about their concerns about free speech, but I think that there were Trump voters, you know, particularly, you know, kind of people in the comedy space and the. In the manosphere space and the podcast space. Free speech is their business, you know, and I think that it's kind of an American thing that is bipartisan, the belief that in this country we can say what we want, we can make fun of our leaders. This isn't China. It's part of American pride that a lot of people feel. And so I do think this is breaking through. And I think that there are parts of Trump's coalition, maybe not in Washington, but out in the country, that are upset about this. And I think we've seen some of this if you watch kind of the barstool sports podcasts or some of the other comedian podcasts that are out there.

Lisa (9:21)

I will say anecdotally, there are definitely parents at the bus stop who I ordinarily do not see talking politics who were like, whoa, we're at a different moment now. Tim Miller, Max Rose, thank you both so much for joining us today.