Bulwark Takes: They Hate the Pope?! Release Date: May 9, 2025
In the latest episode of Bulwark Takes, host Andrew Egger delves into the controversial reactions surrounding the election of the first American Pope, Bobby Leo XIV. Joining him is Will Sommer, The Bulwark's right-wing media reporter, who provides insights into the conservative backlash and the broader implications for American Catholicism.
1. Introduction to the New Pope
Andrew Egger opens the discussion by introducing the newly elected Pope, Bobby Leo XIV, highlighting the unprecedented milestones of his papacy:
- First American Pope
- First Chicago Pope
He notes the divisive nicknames emerging for Pope Leo XIV, such as the "bulwark Pope" and the "woke Pope," reflecting the polarized reception among different factions:
"Some people are calling him the bulwark Pope, some other people are calling him the woke Pope... a different crowd, as you might imagine." [00:00]
2. Conservative Expectations vs. Reality
Will Sommer explains the conservative community's initial expectations for a more traditionalist pope:
"They were really looking forward to... a very conservative, politically conservative Pope. They really wanted Cardinal Seurat... seen as a real reaction to Francis." [01:03]
However, Pope Leo XIV has taken a more progressive stance, particularly on issues like immigration, disappointing many in the MAGA movement who anticipated a departure from Pope Francis's approach.
3. Immigration Policy Critique
A central point of contention is Pope Leo XIV's criticism of the Trump administration's immigration policies. Egger elaborates on Leo XIV's stance:
"He was critiquing J.D. Vance's... layman flights of Catholic speak about why actually mass deportations are very Catholic... denouncing the mass deportation program." [02:22]
Sommer adds that the Pope's comments have not aligned with the conservative desire for stricter immigration controls:
"They really were looking forward to... send them to El Salvador." [06:49]
4. Conservative Reactions and Labels
The reaction from conservative circles has been notably negative, with figures like Laura Loomer branding the Pope as a "woke Marxist Pope":
"Laura Loomer called him the woke Marxist Pope in all caps." [03:17]
Jack Posobiec, a right-wing commentator, expressed disappointment, emphasizing that:
"The Pope is not infallible on political issues, so don't let the Pope boss you around." [04:24]
5. Tensions Within American Catholicism
Egger points out the irony and tension among American Catholics who are staunchly pro-Trump yet must reconcile their political affiliations with their respect for the papacy:
"It's always kind of funny to see these figures who are... hardcore MAGA Trump people... bound to a certain amount of filial piety and respect." [04:55]
Sommer underscores the broader disconnect between American political expectations and the Vatican’s global perspective:
"They are bumping up against sort of a paradigm that really has nothing to do with American politics." [07:37]
6. Comparison to Pope Francis
The episode contrasts Pope Leo XIV with his predecessor, Pope Francis, particularly regarding stances on social issues:
"Francis was never quite as squishy on that as... the popular imagination would have suggested he was." [05:38]
While both popes address social issues, Leo XIV's approach appears more rigid from a traditional Catholic viewpoint, which has further alienated conservative listeners.
7. White House Response
When Egger inquires about the White House's stance, Caroline Levitt, the press secretary, responds cautiously without engaging with the "woke Pope" label:
"The President... is very proud to have an American Pope... a great thing for the United States of America and for the world, and we are praying for him." [08:22]
This diplomatic response mirrors the Trump administration's previous interactions with Pope Francis, maintaining a respectful distance despite policy disagreements.
8. Political Implications and Future Outlook
As the conversation wraps up, Sommer reflects on the broader implications for American politics:
"It's hard to imagine how this ever would have happened, but a pope was just gonna be like, let it rip." [04:55]
Egger offers a consoling perspective for conservatives dissatisfied with the papacy:
"You didn't get the Pope you wanted. You still control Congress... it's a lot to hang your hat onto." [09:58]
This sentiment highlights the enduring influence of American political institutions despite religious leadership tensions.
Conclusion
The episode of Bulwark Takes provides a comprehensive analysis of the mixed reactions to Pope Bobby Leo XIV's election. While some celebrate the historic nature of his papacy, others within the conservative and MAGA factions express significant disappointment over his progressive stances, particularly on immigration. The conversation underscores the complexities of aligning religious leadership with sharply divided political ideologies, especially within the dynamic landscape of American Catholicism.
Listeners are left contemplating the future interplay between the Vatican and American politics, as well as the potential shifts within the Catholic Church's approach to contemporary social issues.
For more insights and discussions, visit The Bulwark and subscribe to Bulwark Takes.