“They Will Be Killed” Trump Orders Afghan Refugees to Self-Deport

Summary

Bulwark Takes: “They Will Be Killed” Trump Orders Afghan Refugees to Self-Deport
Release Date: April 20, 2025

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Introduction

In the April 20, 2025 episode of Bulwark Takes, hosted by Tim Miller from The Bulwark, the focus shifts to a grave and urgent issue affecting Afghan refugees in the United States. Tim is joined by Will Selber, a seasoned advocate working with several Afghan nonprofits, including the Afghan American Veterans Alliance, Global Friends of Afghanistan, and Next Mission, which supports Afghan female soldiers. Together, they delve into the Trump administration's controversial decision to revoke temporary protective status for Afghan allies, effectively mandating their self-deportation and placing them in immediate danger.

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Policy Changes by the Trump Administration

Tim Miller opens the discussion by highlighting recent developments: the Trump administration's removal of temporary protective status (TPS) for Afghan refugees who had previously sought asylum through proper channels, such as demonstrating credible fear of persecution. This policy shift targets approximately 120,000 Afghan individuals, a majority of whom are Christians fearing religious persecution under Taliban rule.

Tim Miller [09:01]: "Secretary of State Marco Rubio tweeted yesterday. Easter celebrates the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This Holy week and Easter, I call upon all nations to respect the right of Christians to declare Christ the King. So while he's calling on other nations to respect the right of Christians, he's sending Christian refugees back to their death."

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Impact on Afghan Refugees and Allies

Will Selber provides an in-depth analysis of the implications of this policy change. He explains that by revoking TPS, the administration has left Afghan allies—many of whom served alongside American forces—forlorn and vulnerable. These individuals have undergone extensive vetting processes, including multiple rounds of security checks, to secure their status in the U.S. However, without TPS, they face imminent deportation to Afghanistan, where their lives are in imminent danger of being taken by the Taliban or Al Qaeda.

Will Selber [04:17]: "Any Afghan who gets sent back, who is a vetted Afghan and who's a trusted Afghan...codes air, they're gonna kill them, period."

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Personal Accounts and Examples

To humanize the statistics, Will shares poignant personal stories of Afghan allies who have successfully integrated into American society. He mentions a pilot who had to re-certify his credentials after fleeing Afghanistan and is now actively serving as a pilot in the U.S., and an Afghan interpreter who, despite severe injuries, remains committed to protecting Americans.

Will Selber [06:55]: "I have a friend who's a pilot. He's a pilot, and he lost all of his credentials during the fall. He had to redo everything, and he's flying right now as we speak."

These narratives underscore the sacrifices made by Afghan allies and the integral roles they continue to play within their communities in the United States.

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Psychological and Social Consequences

The conversation delves into the profound psychological toll this policy is having on Afghan combat veterans and their families. Will emphasizes that many veterans who invested personal resources and built deep relationships in their efforts to evacuate Afghan allies are now facing betrayal. This sense of abandonment is expected to lead to a spike in mental health issues, including increased suicide rates among veterans.

Will Selber [05:58]: "Imagine how this must feel for my Afghan combat veteran friends...if we're going to start hunting our very own allies...it's going to be devastating, not just for combat veterans, but also for their families."

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Government Contradictions and Hypocrisy

Tim criticizes the Trump administration for its contradictory stance on human rights. While Secretary of State Marco Rubio publicly advocates for the protection of Christian rights globally, the administration's actions directly endanger Christian refugees seeking safety in the U.S. This hypocrisy highlights a broader issue of inconsistency in policy enforcement and moral leadership.

Tim Miller [11:46]: "Marco Rubio tweeted...while he's calling on other nations to respect the right of Christians, he's sending Christian refugees back to their death. What a sick person. It's just truly unbelievable that, like, the shamelessness of...the administration on this front."

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Conclusion and Call to Action

As the episode wraps up, Tim and Will reiterate the urgency of the situation and the need for public awareness and support for Afghan allies. Tim provides resources for listeners to support the organizations aiding Afghan refugees, emphasizing that ongoing advocacy is crucial to prevent further tragedies.

Tim Miller [12:54]: "I appreciate you, man. I appreciate your service, all the work you're doing...Afghan American Veterans Alliance, Global Friends of Afghanistan...we'll be talking to you again."

Will expresses gratitude for the platform to shed light on these critical issues and underscores the enduring resilience of Afghan allies who continue to strive for safety and stability in the face of adversity.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Will Selber [04:17]: "Any Afghan who gets sent back...they're gonna kill them, period."
• Tim Miller [09:01]: "He's sending Christian refugees back to their death...shamelessness of the administration."
• Will Selber [06:55]: "I have a friend who's a pilot...he's flying right now as we speak."
• Tim Miller [11:46]: "What a sick person. It's just truly unbelievable...the administration on this front."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Bulwark Takes provides a sobering examination of the Trump administration's policies towards Afghan refugees, highlighting the immediate and severe threats posed to individuals who have already risked their lives to support American forces. Through heartfelt discussions and personal testimonies, Tim Miller and Will Selber emphasize the critical need for continued support and action to protect these vulnerable populations from forced deportation and likely persecution.

For listeners looking to help, Tim directs them to the show notes where links to supporting organizations like the Afghan American Veterans Alliance, Global Friends of Afghanistan, and others are provided. The episode serves as a powerful reminder of the human cost of political decisions and the ongoing struggle for justice and safety among Afghan allies in the United States.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

D.com hey y'all, it's Tim Miller from the Bulwark. I am delighted to be here with my friend Will Selber, former colleague of mine. He's now working with a bunch of Afghan nonprofits, Afghan American Veterans Alliance, Global Friends of Afghanistan and Next Mission, which is focused on Afghan female soldiers. We'll put the links to these in the show notes if you want to support them. It's good to see you brother, even though the topic is pretty, pretty bleak.

[Will Selber]

Yes, yes it is. But I'm delighted to be here and thank you for providing me a platform to talk about this.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, happy to do it. Will did four tours in Afghanistan, you know, but who's counting? And so met a lot of folks over there and I saw, I started seeing these stories come across my radar this week and I just, I'm trying to unpack like what is true about them. It's one of these things where it's in a non Trump world. It's like too horrific to be like imaginable like, you know, it's like, maybe this is the new. They don't have exactly the story. Right. But in Trump world, it seems to be the case, which is a bunch of Afghan refugees who came the proper way, you know, went to a third country, demonstrated credible fear. Particular, there's a particular focus on Afghan Christians who have an obvious fear of religious persecution. Now, the Taliban is running Afghanistan, and many of these people have received emails this week from the government saying basically, you have seven days to leave. So that's what I've read. I'm sure you're more familiar than this, than me. So get us up to speed on what's happening.

[Will Selber]

Sure. About a week ago or so, Trump removed the temporary protective status on our Afghan allies who served beside American forces and other forces through 20 years of war. That basically left them vulnerable, if you will. And, you know, now we're starting to get reports, and I've heard it from multiple people, that there are already Afghan refugees who have been detained, and also that there were Afghan security force officers who has been detained. There's some video on it on Facebook about a certain Afghan soldier being detained. So there is video proof already that's starting to come out of our Afghan allies who. There's about 120,000, give or take, that left Kabul when it fell. And then there's. There's been a lot more that have come since then. So all of them who made it here could potentially be deported back to Afghanistan where they were certainly be murdered. I mean, just 100% they will be executed by the Taliban and Al Qaeda, the Al Qaeda. And the Taliban may not do it immediately because that's not how they kill people. They basically do targets of opportunity. So it's not going to be a systemic campaign. But any Afghan who gets sent back, who is a vetted Afghan and who's a trusted Afghan, and many of the men and women that I served with, trained in the United States previously and have already gone through like, six or seven rounds of vetting before 2001. You sent any of them back, they're gonna kill them, period.

[Tim Miller]

The, like, processing. I guess if you've been speaking to people that are like, like dealing with this, they're in flux right now. I mean, I guess the question is the government would say what were. They're gonna give them time to go to another country. Like, I don't. Other countries taking Afghans. Like, you know, I mean, I haven't.

[Will Selber]

Heard anything yet that they are. I'm sure that there will be some that step up to the plate and provide sanctuary for them. I would just say, you know, imagine how this must feel for my Afghan combat veteran friends who spent the last three and a half years getting Afghan allies out. They. They've sunk their money into it, their personal money into it. Relationships have been ruined, marriages, families split apart because a bunch of Afghan combat veterans decided to uphold the promise that we made to our allies. And now if this really starts up, if you think the veteran suicide rate was bad, it's going to spike. Because you saw a spike. You saw that. You saw a spike during the fall of Kabul. If we're going to start hunting our very own allies and you're going to make Afghan combat veterans try to protect them, and there's going to be guys who shepherd them along. Imagine how that must feel for them. They've not only been betrayed, in my opinion, by their country when the fall, but also now, again, as they grab the very people that they sunk their money into, who protected them on the battlefield. To pull them all the way back. It's going to be devastating, not just for combat veterans, but also for their families. And as you can see, the Trump administration has been gutting the va so good luck trying to find some help.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I mean, it is. It is just so tragic. And it's been kind of tragedy upon tragedy for you guys. Our veterans who served over there just kind of like also just seeing the work get the rug pulled out from under you and the work that was done. But talking about the Afghans themselves, and I think since you deal with a lot of these families, you could kind of give people some perspective. You know, a lot of folks who were in Afghanistan who maybe helped us, who are translators or maybe, or even if they didn't, even if they just are Christians that are looking for a safe harbor here in America. They've come here, they've started lives. They're in churches, they have jobs, they're in a community. They have kids, too. Like, they, you know, they have families. Families. And they. They uprooted their whole life, came here, and now it's like, what? Now we're just saying, hey, here's a letter from the government. You have seven days to, you know, go back to certain death or become a fugitive in a new land.

[Will Selber]

Yes. I mean, you know, for these Afghan families, they, you know, some of them, you know, imagine one day you just pick up your bags and somebody goes. The only way for you not to die or to live under a gender apartheid regime, because the Taliban and Al Qaeda are Publicly executing people. There are mass sexual assaults going on in prison. Now, imagine this is your only chance, and you have to pick up everything you own, get on a plane, and fly all the way here in a country that is completely different and that maybe one or two of your family members know how to speak fluent English. That was the case for about 100,000 Afghans or so less that got into the United States. And overwhelming numbers are thriving. I have a friend who's a pilot. He's a pilot, and he lost all of his credentials during the fall. He had to redo everything, and he's flying right now as we speak. You know, he is providing service for this country. I have an Afghan interpreter, my very first one. He's an American citizen, and I'm even scared for him. This is a man without any legs who survived an ID explosion, and he is a security guard because he wants to protect Americans. I could go on and on about the Afghans that I know, men and women who. There's that first Afghan female squadron commander who was in charge of other Afghan male pilots. She's here. Other females tactical platoon members are here. These men and women are. Are doing their best. Many of them are thriving. And I tell you what, all they want. I talk to all. So many of them, they want this. They want to stay here. They were going to follow the laws. They want to thrive. And as soon as the Taliban and Al Qaeda aren't in charge of Afghanistan, I guarantee you every single one of them will want to go home, because they love it here, but this isn't their home. But they don't want to go back now because, as we speak, the Taliban has been killing our Afghan allies for the last three years. Why would they be any different?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I mean, the letter that they got, I just want to read a little bit from it. If you do not depart from the United States immediately, you'll be subject to potential law enforcement actions that will result in your removal from the United States. Unless you have otherwise obtained a lawful basis to remain here, you'll be subject to potential criminal prosecution, civil fines, penalties, and other lawful options available to the federal government. So, like, you know, I. For your friend that has got citizenship. Right. I mean, this does not apply to all 100,000, but, like, this is a huge portion of them that do not have other lawful bases who remain here if they don't have the temporary protective status. That's. That's the gist?

[Will Selber]

Yes, that is the gist. I mean, for the Afghan American citizens, it's going to be their family members, though. I mean, because many of them were able to get members of their families out. So it is going to affect them, too, and it's going to affect any Afghan that's in the United States, even if they're not able. Even if they're able to stay here, they're going to see their friends and family get. Some of them get deported. And we've already turned off the pipeline. Like, there's not going to be any other Afghans getting in, as, as far as I know, Trump has already turned that off. So what is the point here? Exactly.

[Tim Miller]

And it's like, on the people that. And so you can may explain this because you were helping folks get out.

[Will Selber]

Yes.

[Tim Miller]

And just doing really great work. But there was, I guess there were, you know, after that first rush, right. Then there's this next batch of people that come in and they went through kind of the old process, Right. They would go to a third country. Then they, they got that. There was the CBP1 app. And this way, it's similar to the story with the Venezuelans, just with, like, even more trauma. But you know, where they. They did it, they got in the app. And it seems to me, just based on the couple stories I've read and Christian Post and elsewhere, that, like, it was those Afghans that have been targeted first, like the ones that use the CBP1 app, because I guess, you know, the government has it on file. They're easy to find, so.

[Will Selber]

They're easy to find. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly right. Now, Afghans who have followed the law and provided information, they're going to maybe be the first ones that are contacted by the American federal government. And after that, I don't know what's going to happen next, because I think that a lot of them are going to be vulnerable. Some of them got here after the fall of Afghanistan. They went through. They went through SIVs, Special Immigrant Visa process. That was for people that worked for at least a year for the American federal government in various capacities. Some of them got in, as on refugee status or asylum or parole through the last three and a half years. And many of them sat in bases in the Middle east for over a year getting vetted, and then they finally make it. So all of these men and women have been thoroughly vetted multiple times.

[Tim Miller]

So, yeah, well, it's quite the Easter weekend gift from the American government. Secretary of State Marco Rubio tweeted yesterday. Easter celebrates the resurrection of Jesus Christ. This Holy week and Easter, I call upon all nations to respect the right of Christians to declare Christ the King. So while he's calling on other nations to respect the right of Christians, he's sending Christian refugees back to their death. What a sick person I did. It's just truly unbelievable that, like, the shamelessness of. Of the administration on this front.

[Will Selber]

Yeah, there are members inside the administration who served in Afghanistan. I mean, the National Security Advisor served in Afghanistan and wrote a book about it. Door Stepped Up. I don't remember what it was called, but he talked quite passionately about the Afghans. And I would love to see maybe Michael Waltz say something about that. Because he served. He knows how valuable they were. And if any of the limited success that we had, lives were saved because my life was safe because of Afghans, numerous times, they've earned their place among us.

[Tim Miller]

I appreciate you, man. I appreciate your service, all the work you're doing. Once again, we'll put the links here if people want to support these efforts. Afghan American Veterans Alliance Global, Friends of Afghanistan. That's my buddy Will Selber. And sadly, I think this stuff's going to stay in the news. So we'll be talking to you again.

[Will Selber]

All right, thank you, Tim. I appreciate the time.

[Tim Miller]

Thanks, brother. Have a good one. We'll see you soon.

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