This $400M Plane Is a Bribe—And Everyone Knows It

Summary

Bulwark Takes: This $400M Plane Is a Bribe—And Everyone Knows It

Release Date: May 11, 2025

Hosts: Sam Stein and Bill Kristol
Episode Title: This $400M Plane Is a Bribe—And Everyone Knows It

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1. Introduction and Context

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Sam Stein, Managing Editor at The Bulwark, engages in a critical discussion with Bill Kristol regarding a controversial move by the Trump administration. The central focus is the administration's plan to accept a $400 million luxury Boeing 70478 Jumbo Jet from the royal family of Qatar. This episode delves into the ethical implications, potential corruption, and the broader impact on political and public perception.

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2. Overview of the $400M Plane Controversy

Sam Stein opens the conversation by presenting an exclusive ABC News report detailing the Trump administration's intention to accept a state-of-the-art jet from Qatar. The jet is intended to serve as the new Air Force One for President Donald Trump during his tenure. Upon leaving office, ownership of the plane is slated to transfer to the Trump Presidential Library Foundation, suggesting personal use beyond official capacities.

Sam Stein [00:22]:

"I have never in my life seen a more brazen act of a foreign government trying to influence a president by than this."

This move has sparked significant debate, highlighting the unprecedented nature of such a gift from a foreign entity and raising red flags about potential quid pro quo arrangements.

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3. Ethical and Corruption Concerns

Bill Kristol expresses deep concern over the ethical ramifications of accepting such a lavish gift. He draws parallels to historical instances of elite excess and corruption, emphasizing how this action undermines the integrity of the presidency and national security protocols.

Bill Kristol [02:17]:

"It is unbelievable... it's such a kind of decadent late empire, sort of the wealthy, you know, country gives you this gold plated, you know, thing to try to win favor."

Kristol underscores the absurdity of retrofitting the plane to meet stringent security standards, questioning the practicality and necessity of accepting a gift of this magnitude. He criticizes the administration for overlooking the broader implications of appearing beholden to a foreign power.

Sam Stein [05:07]:

"There's nothing in this story where they report, well, why. Don't say it's debated whether or not it would be wise to accept the gift."

This lack of critical examination by the media, according to Stein, reflects a troubling oversight that prioritizes legalistic justifications over ethical considerations.

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4. Bill Kristol's Perspective and Experiences

Kristol leverages his extensive experience, having served in high-level positions and utilized Air Force One and Air Force Two. He contrasts the proposed Qatar jet with his firsthand understanding of the operational and security requirements essential for such aircraft.

Bill Kristol [03:30]:

"The idea that we're going to use some plane that's been supplied to us even if our guys have to go, but then if our guys have to go out, go over it and rip out the innards and make sure there's nothing in there, what's the point of taking it? Right. I mean, so it's ridiculous."

He reminisces about his time in office, detailing the strict protocols surrounding the acceptance of gifts, such as those from Saudi Arabia, emphasizing the ethical rigor that currently appears to be absent in the Trump administration's approach.

Bill Kristol [04:11]:

"If the gift was less than $100 or $200, we could keep it. We could ask to have it back as a personal memento. It was over $200, no question. You couldn't do it."

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5. Potential Reactions and Pressure Points

The discussion shifts to the possible fallout from this revelation, exploring three main pressure points that could challenge Trump's position:

1. MAGA Faithful:
   Some staunch Trump supporters, exemplified by figures like Laura Loomer, may view the acceptance of the plane as inconsistent with Trump's image and principles.

   Sam Stein [08:20]:

   "Laura Loomer... we cannot accept a $400 million gift from what she calls, not me, jihadists in suits."

2. Elites and Business Figures:
   The traditional Republican and business elites might find the gesture garish and unbecoming, leading to embarrassment and potential dissent within influential circles.

   Bill Kristol [10:43]:

   "The garish, oligarchic, out of control grift and self indulgence stuff can hit."

3. Average Republican Voters:
   Everyday voters who prioritize pragmatism may feel betrayed, questioning the administration's judgment and integrity.

Stein also references the negative impact of Trump's recent "meme coin" initiative, which saw significant financial losses for small investors, potentially eroding trust among this voter base.

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6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Bill Kristol draws historical parallels, invoking Marie Antoinette's infamous "Let them eat cake" remark to illustrate the disconnect between the administration's actions and public sentiment.

Bill Kristol [10:55]:

"I mean, in a way that's famous, but then you think for a second that was the French Revolution... grotesque, smug, self satisfied, out of touch."

The episode concludes with a somber reflection on the potential for internal fractures within the Republican coalition and the broader political landscape. Both hosts express concern that such blatant displays of corruption and disregard for ethical norms may catalyze significant political backlash.

Sam Stein [11:34]:

"Well, we'll wait and see."

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Closing Remarks:

Sam Stein thanks Bill Kristol for his insights and underscores the importance of vigilance and accountability in political leadership. The episode serves as a critical examination of the Trump administration's actions, urging listeners to consider the long-term implications of accepting foreign gifts and the erosion of ethical standards in governance.

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For more in-depth analysis and coverage of the Trump administration, subscribe to The Bulwark's podcast feed.

Transcript

[Sam Stein]

Hey, guys, it's me, Sam Stein, managing editor at the Bulwark. And I am joined by Bill Kristol, who would I not rather talk to on Mother's Day than Bill? Crystal.

[Bill Kristol]

We'Re hoping your wife and mother are not watching this. I'm sure they watch everything on the Bulwark, certainly everything you'd host in the Bulwark. So he was joking. He was really joking there. That was not serious, let me assure you.

[Sam Stein]

Happy Mother's Day to my mom and my wife, of course, same. Bill, thanks for joining us. We're going to talk about what I think is one of the more corrupt acts potentially of an administration I've ever seen. And I've covered stuff for about two decades now. I'm curious what Bill's thoughts are before we get into it, please do subscribe to the feed. Really appreciate your support here. Tell people about the feed because we think it's great resource for news and coverage of the Trump administration. All right, so here's the setup. This morning, ABC News comes out with an exclusive. I'm just gonna read a little bit of it, and then I'm gonna ask Bill for his reaction. Then I'm gonna get into what I really think about it. But here's the story. It goes like this. In what may be the most valuable gift ever extended to the United States from a foreign government, the Trump administration is preparing to accept a Super Luxury Boeing 70478 Jumbo Jet from the royal family of Qatar, a gift that is so that is to be available for use by President Donald Trump as a new Air Force One until shortly before he leaves office, at which time ownership of the plane will be transferred to the Trump Presidential Library Foundation. So a foreign government, just to be clear, is going to extend a private palace, a private flying palace, as they call it, that Trump will use officially. And then when he leaves office, we presume after this term, it will be transferred to his presidential library, where it won't just sit there. I'm assuming it's just going to be used by Trump. I have never in my life seen a more brazen act of a foreign government trying to influence a president by than this. And I will say what's shocking is the story says that, of course, the DOJ and the White House counsel's office looked at into this, made sure it was ethically above board, and they determined that everything was kosher because the plan would be given for official use before it's given for private use. Bill?

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah, the private use is this foundation, which he totally controls and we'll use it for his personal use. Um, it is unbelievable. I mean, a couple of points, you know, when I first saw the story break, I thought, I didn't realize that he was going to get it back after the official, you know, after the four years even. So I was kind of disgusted by it. It's such a kind of decadent late empire, sort of the wealthy, you know, country gives you this gold plated, you know, thing to try to win favor and as if we can't build our own, you know, Air Force One, the greatest.

[Sam Stein]

I know, right.

[Bill Kristol]

So that part disgusted me, sort of, you know, annoyed me and just that was sort of embarrassing. Then of course I, yeah, then I saw the degree of just pure corruption, as you say, you know, sorry, I thought of. So I've been in, I've been in Air Force One a couple times when I was vice president, chief of staff. I was in Air Force Two many, many, many times. And so I have some feel for a. I mean there are, these are, you know, command centers, certainly Air Force One in particular, but even Air Force Two, obviously confidential phone calls, business, you know, crises happen, you're in the air. This happened in 9 11, famously with Bush and so forth. And the idea that we're going to use some plane that's been supplied to us even if our guys have to go, but then if our guys have to go out, go over it and rip out the innards and make sure there's nothing in there, what's the point of taking it? Right. I mean, so it's ridiculous.

[Sam Stein]

I know. We're just going to retrofit it.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah. So we're going to end up spending as much money so Trump could have something that looks really garish and grotesque. But so then I was thinking, so we went to Saudi Arabia. I went with Quail. I mean, he went. I was chief of staff in Christmas of 1990, just before the first Gulf War launched. We went to visit our troops, also visit the kingdom and you know, it was a pretty. For vice president, a pretty high profile and a pretty. Anyway, you know, kind of important visit. I mean this is, this is the center of action in the world at the time. We put up by the Saudis, as you are, by the House government, and, and we were given gifts and they were, I don't really, I hear as I just, I can't quite remember some kind of thing, I mean, like a little statuette or a vase or something.

[Sam Stein]

A snow globe.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah. No, it's like. And it was, I Had no idea if it was worth, you know, $10 or $10,000. Honestly, it was, you know, could be. Looked nice, but it could be fake, forcelit or whatever. Needless to say, there were total strict guidelines on this. We all promptly. We didn't. I didn't even personally take it. I gave it to one of the staff guys, one of them who was. Took care of things like this, the advanced guys, they immediately shifted over to the State Department. It was registered. Now, we don't want to offend the Saudis, so we didn't say, we can't take this, but it went to the State Department. And then the State Department had a protocol for. They could offer to give it back to the Saudis. They could give it to a museum or something. They could put it, use it for decorating US Government, you know, facilities. The idea we could not. And I think if the gift was less than $100 or 200i camera, we could keep it. We could ask for to have it back as a personal memento. It was over $200, no question. You couldn't do it. And that was pretty strictly enforced. I remember there was no messing around. Everyone understood this is what you have to do to keep your job, really, in the White House.

[Sam Stein]

Just to be clear, this gift is estimated to be $400 million. And there's nothing in this story. This is what kind of tickled me in a way. There's nothing in this story where they report, well, why. Don't say it's debated whether or not it would be wise to accept the gift. Even if it were legal to accept. There's no, there's no consideration of the fact that it might look improper or that it would be a form of bribery or that they would be, you know, indebted to Qatar after this because of the gift or that Trump would, you know, incur political damage if he were to accept such a gift. That never seemed to cross their mind. It was just strictly a question of, can we get away, can we rationalize this is legal and it's just open in the air. Corruption and, and, you know, I know it's. We say, well, he'll get away with it. And, and yeah, I think he probably will get away with it because he just goes about it brazenly.

[Bill Kristol]

It is. It is extraordinary. And didn't he tour this plane back in February when it was down in Florida or something like that? So he sort of liked it. I mean, it's not really a surprise gift. It's like, I kind of like that I mean, what do we think?

[Sam Stein]

That's the play.

[Bill Kristol]

I kind of. That Flames looks nicer than the one I have, you know.

[Sam Stein]

And so, Bill, I had a question for you. I had a question for you. I had in the back of my mind, I was wondering, why did this story come out? Yes, why did it come out? And I can't help but think maybe someone on staff or maybe a few people on staff think this is a bad look and maybe we should float it and try to get it killed totally.

[Bill Kristol]

Either on staff or. Look, if they went through, even if, you know, the. What I try to say, the pretense of a review, there would be people down in the White House Ethics office, people in DOJ who probably were aware of this. I don't think Bondi personally just said, it's fine, they thought it was a fake kind of review. So maybe some career person decided. This is so outrageous. I'm going to let people know. But also they're going to announce it, aren't they? In a week and a half. Is it a week and a half? I think next week.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah, I think so.

[Bill Kristol]

Qatar, when he visits the Middle East. So this is. It's not like this is something he's toying with and that might happen.

[Sam Stein]

Well, it's either a trial balloon or they're kind of laying the foundation for everyone.

[Bill Kristol]

Well, yeah, both. I mean, it's obviously on the prelim. You know how these trips are. Sorry, you've covered that. I mean, there's a ready a preliminaries, you know, schedule, but also things that could be announced. And obviously this is one of the things that's on one of the preliminary schedules has been distributed to 100 people in the White House and 50 people in the State Department and the embassy and so forth. And so, yeah, someone saw that from.

[Sam Stein]

3Pm to 4pm Take garish 400 million.

[Bill Kristol]

Well, it's not going to happen secretly. Is he going to.

[Sam Stein]

Oh, he can't.

[Bill Kristol]

I mean, you think it'll fly back? How did they get that? I mean, I guess not, but. No, it is. I mean, also not. It would be terrible for happening with France or something. I mean, it wouldn't be appropriate. But of course, Qatar is a ally of Iran's the home, not sponsor, but the refugee.

[Sam Stein]

This is. This is what's wrinkling. Yeah, this is what's rankling. Some, some, you know, some Trump heights. Really?

[Bill Kristol]

Well, what do you think? I mean, do you think finally a lot of this, it does slightly cross pressures coalition B. The corruption is so out of sight. There's all this stuff. Add up some cracks in Elite. I had this conversation with Dan Zip Lad. Very, very good. As if I could say a couple hours ago, big scholar, how democracies die and so forth. I mean, the elites need to break. The public. Maybe it erodes.

[Sam Stein]

So I have a few thoughts.

[Bill Kristol]

Could the elites who have been accommodating to Trump, whether it's the Republican Party, congressional leaders, just outside civic and. But business elites, could they begin to crack over some of this stuff?

[Sam Stein]

So let me, Let me, Let me throw it back to you. There's three things that could break here. Three things. I don't think any of them are going to. But there's three potential pressure points here. And I want you to figure out. I want you. I want your opinion on which one is the more likely to break. One is the MAGA faithful. So we have, in one case, Laura Loomer loves Trump. She said, take a bullet for him in a tweet, but she's not happy with it. She said, I have to call a spade a spade. We cannot accept a $400 million gift from what she calls, not me, jihadists in suits. All right, so she's upset. So that's one plank where it's like, this is not a good look. Like, what is he doing here? Don't like this. This is not, you know, this is not the Trump I know. The other thing that could break is the elites. And so you have, like, you know, of course the Wall street types, the business types who think it's totally garish and gross and they kind of are embarrassed by. And they think it's. What kind of individual would possibly do this? I put in that camp maybe some members of Congress. Now, I don't think James Comer, after investigating Hunter Biden's art dealings, is going to suddenly turn around, be like, you know what? This is actually 20 times worse. Like, we should invest now. But I'm talking about, like, lawmakers who actually have a pulse and think, you know, this is actually ethically dubious and presents really problematic national security stuff. That's the other one. Then the final one is just sort of every average day, Republican voters who look at Trump and say, wait a second, you're telling me that I can only get a handful of dolls for my kid and I should be fine with it while you're taking a $400 million plane from Qatar and I. And I'll note just one other story, and then I'll turn over to you for your guest. There was a Great Washington Post piece about the Trump meme coin. And I think they, they estimated 67,000 people bought into it based on the publicity he was getting from Trump himself, most likely. And that in their estimation, 80% of those people saw the value of their purchase nosedive. These are not like big investors. These are like small time people putting in $10,000, $5,000, and they saw it go to shit. Those are people who I think could also turn on Trump over this type of behavior. So that's three camps. What is your sense of which camp is the most vulnerable for Trump?

[Bill Kristol]

I guess I do think the garish, oligarchic, out of control grift and self indulgence stuff can hit. As you were speaking, I was thinking Marie Antoinette, the famous let them be cake. Let them be cake.

[Sam Stein]

Yeah.

[Bill Kristol]

Didn't we? What do we. You were the one who wrote that line for the morning shots this week. Let them eat dolls. Right?

[Sam Stein]

Let them eat dolls.

[Bill Kristol]

Yeah, but think about this. I mean, in a way that's famous, but then you think for a second that was the French Revolution. There were like, there were a lot of reasons to have a revolution against the old regime, presumably, you know, injustice and inequality. And I'm not saying that those were, of course, those were the real reasons, the deeper reasons, but somehow that's what Reenter that said or is alleged to have said did obviously catch on, as it were, as an example of, you know, grotesque, smug, self satisfied, out of touch, this. Yeah. Could there be some of that here? I think that's possible, yeah.

[Sam Stein]

Well, we'll wait and see. All right, Bill, thank you for doing this on Mother's Day. I do appreciate it. I know this is a busy day for us husbands, the real people who should be celebrated now.

[Bill Kristol]

I'm just joking.

[Sam Stein]

To my wife, to my mom, we love you very much. Thank you so much. And Bill, thank you for doing this. Really appreciate it. Thank you guys for tuning in on YouTube. We really appreciate that, too. Subscribe to the feed and we will talk later.