Tim and Adam Kinzinger Play a Little Game

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Tim and Adam Kinzinger Play a Little Game

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Date: March 21, 2026
Host: Tim Miller (C)
Guest: Adam Kinzinger (D), former Republican Congressman
Recorded at: Paramount Theater, Texas

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Tim Miller is joined by Adam Kinzinger live on stage to break down the latest news, with particular focus on the new U.S.–Iran war, political hypocrisy, MAGA disillusionment, and a humorous “cuck off” game exploring old-school Never Trump roots. The conversation is candid, irreverent, and deeply engaged with current political turmoil, blending sharp critique with banter and personal stories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Iran War: Costs, Hypocrisy, and Political Narratives

[01:11–03:19]

• Massive War Funding:

  • Kinzinger notes Congress is being asked for $200 billion for the war in Iran:
    • “They’re going to Congress to ask for $200 billion for this. 200 billion.” (D; 01:23)
    • Tim reacts: “That’s insane.” (C; 01:46)
  • Comparison with Ukraine aid: U.S. spent much less in Ukraine against a bigger strategic threat (Russia).

• Political Hypocrisy:

  • Kinzinger calls out Republican fiscal hypocrisy and the shifting standards on military expenditures.
  • Trump’s allies in the media now demand gratitude:
    • “You should be saying thank you to Donald Trump for protecting us.” (D, referencing Hegseth; 02:55)

2. MAGA Losers, Joe Kent, and the Problem with 'Defectors'

[03:42–08:31]

• Joe Kent’s Departure & Qualifications:

  • Tim brings up Joe Kent, a MAGA figure departing the administration over the Iran war, with a problematic past (ties to white nationalism and conspiracy theories):
    • “Should we welcome them into our fold or should we hiss at them?” (C; 04:48)

• Drawing the Line:

  • Kinzinger: Welcoming MAGA defectors should come with a demand for genuine remorse:
    • “If somebody’s not willing to do that, then they have not come to grips with what this movement is.” (D; 09:32)
  • Detailed difference between agreeing with outcomes versus motivations (i.e., anti-Semitic conspiracies vs. anti-war positions):
    • “His reason is Jewish conspiracy. Whereas our reason is like, we just probably shouldn’t have attacked Iran right now because it was kind of dumb to do.” (D; 05:53)
  • Tim offers nuance: acknowledging that Israel did exert strong influence into the war, but that doesn’t justify anti-Semitic framing.

• Welcoming Disillusioned MAGA Supporters (With Caution):

  • Discussed the need for ex-MAGA voters to find a new political home, but with limits:
    • “I don’t care who votes for me as long as it counts as one… you have to admit, in essence, your role in the destruction of what MAGA has done.” (D; 08:50–09:32)

3. Military Morale, “Clown” Leadership, and a General Named Raisin

[09:40–11:57]

• Leadership Lapses:

  • Tim and Adam discuss how Trump allied figures (like Pete Hegseth) are now directing a major war effort despite lacking seriousness or qualifications:
    • “To think that that person is the point person for your friends who are still serving and making decisions for them… it would be horrifying.” (C; 10:07)

• Military Discontent:

  • Kinzinger details feedback from active-duty friends:
    • “They're abusing them in terms of just like, they get 60 hours of notice all of a sudden to deploy to the Middle East. ... One base… had to start rationing food because they got hit by an Iranian missile. They can’t gather in the chow hall anymore because Iranian missiles are targeting that. … They feel like we went to war without being properly prepared.” (D; 11:07–11:53)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On Trump Allies and the Need for Praise

• “What’s with these guys and needing thank yous? It is strange.” (C; 03:15)

On Accepting MAGA Defectors

• “There is a line between if somebody is an unapologetic insurrectionist… For me, that's Marjorie Taylor Greene. I've never once seen her express an ounce of remorse about what happened on January 6.” (D; 05:15)
• “We can agree with somebody's outcome or be glad that they left, but we have to be very careful to welcome them into the coalition.” (D; 06:44)

On Military Leadership

• “He got the job because of his nickname... Raisin Cane. And Trump liked that.” (C; 10:41)
• “[Soldiers] are miserable and they feel like we went to war without being properly prepared. And it kind of feels like that for me.” (D; 11:53)

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The “Cuck Off” Game

[13:34–23:35]

A humorous competition to reclaim the “cuckservative” insult, revisiting their Never Trump origins:

Cuck Off: Round One

• Tim’s Rant:
  • Defends neoconservatism’s intentions, rejects conflation with current “warhawk” corruption:
    • “There was an earnest feeling among the original neoconservatives, which was, we want to bring democracy and freedom to the world. Execution was bad. Intentions were good, though.” (C; 16:18)
    • “They’re not fighting for the freedom of the Iranian people. … They want money. They want to sell their bullshit cryptocurrency to the UAE. They want to build a Trump Tower in Tehran.” (C; 17:21)
• Adam’s Rant:
  • Slams Democratic politicians’ use of polling-tested talking points:
    • “Throw out the talking points. Speak from your heart and speak to people. That’s it.” (D; 19:57)

Cuck Off: Round Two

• Tim’s Rant:
  • Calls for “Justice for Mitt Romney,” revisiting the infamous “binders full of women” controversy and blaming Democratic attacks for paving the way to Trump:
    • “Back in 2012 ... there was a little controversy about something called binders full of women… the binder was full of resumes of qualified women that he wanted to hire. That was Mitt Romney’s crime.” (C; 20:34)
    • “Then you know what you got the next time? A guy grabbing women by the pussy. So you’re fucking welcome.” (C; 21:36)
• Adam’s Rant:
  • Targets “Concerned Republicans” who cite worries about Trump but won’t act:
    • “Every time somebody says they’re concerned or they don’t like or they wish, they have an opportunity to go do something, and they simply choose not to. Because they are not the alpha males that they say they are. ... They are, in fact, Cucks.” (D; 22:12–23:27)

Audience picks Adam as Cuck Off Champion! (23:45)

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Memorable, Light-Hearted Moments

• Tim’s playful jabs at his own past (“I was hitting the bong with my buddy Blake... I did not have any role in the Iraq war, okay?” – C; 16:12)
• Multiple jokes about “the cuck chair” and John Cornyn’s Trump loyalty (14:34)
• Adam ribbing Tim for not being on the Jan. 6 committee (19:34)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:11] – Start of Iran war conversation and funding
• [03:42] – Joe Kent, MAGA defections, and coalition boundaries
• [09:40] – Discussion on military leadership, morale
• [13:34] – Introduction to “Cuck Off” segment
• [15:28] – [23:35] – Cuck Off rounds & rants
• [23:45] – Audience votes for Cuck Off winner

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Tone

Irreverent, sharp, self-deprecating, yet earnest—a blend of inside-the-beltway candor with accessible, often profane humor. Both hosts balance serious critique of the current political landscape with playful banter and self-awareness about their own political journeys.

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Summary

This episode provides a whip-smart, funny, and revealing look at the current U.S. political mess, especially the fallout of the Iran war and the shifting lines of MAGA versus Never Trump coalitions. Tim and Adam’s candor, willingness to own up to past mistakes, and their mix of serious analysis with live show energy make this a standout episode for both political junkies and casual listeners looking for insights with a bite.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

What's up? What's up, Austin?

[D]

How you doing?

[C]

What's happening? What's happening? Paramount Theater. This is pretty good. We have an adopted Texan. Everything's bigger in Texas, including this former Republican congressman, Adam Kinzinger.

[D]

Hi, everybody.

[C]

What's up? What's up? All right, we're going to do a little around talk, then we got a game for you. All right. We're going to have some fun because. Is it Friday? Is it Friday yet? No, it's a Thursday.

[D]

I thought it was Friday.

[C]

It's my Friday tonight. We'll see how I do on David from's podcast tomorrow.

[D]

What are you doing? Are you leaning forward or sitting back?

[C]

I'm kind of sitting back. I think you should, man, spread. I'm. I got. I got kind of like the gay leg cross. All right, we're going to start with a little Iran talk. How do you think the war is going so far?

[D]

Oh, man. I mean, look, ultimately we will know how the war in Iran goes, you know, when it's over. Is there some version of victory or the Straits reopen? It is going terribly now, though. And one of the things that I think is amazing, Tim, is, you know, they're going to Congress to ask for $200 billion for this. 200 billion.

[C]

That's insane.

[D]

It is insane. And you can think of all the things we can fund at home for $200 billion. I mean, we. We used to shut down the government over a $400 million dispute because, you know, these guys that are still in charge pretended like they were part of, you know, a fiscal conservative play.

[C]

But that chart lately, it's like, yeah, Dick.

[D]

It's like, yeah, yeah. And the sad thing is, though, for less than $200 billion, which is what they're asking for for this war of choice. Less than that is what? We spent over four years helping Ukraine to defeat one of our chief strategic enemies. I mean, if you look and say, who's a bigger threat, Russia or Iran? It's Russia. And we were able to help fund way less.

[C]

I think it was like 66 wasn't it 66 million.

[D]

And by the way, all that money is basically just a price tag put on old stuff that we have in our stocks that we give to Ukraine and then we have to put a price tag on the replacement of it, which we were going to destroy this stuff anyway because it was expired and, and yet they didn't have the money to continue to support against all odds, Ukraine. But then they're going to come and ask for $200 billion and Trump's. Trump today. I think it was Vance or some. No, it was Hegseth. He said you guys to the press, instead of asking these questions, you should be saying thank you to Donald Trump for protecting us. I mean, he said that today.

[C]

What's, what's with these guys and needing thank yous? It is strange.

[D]

It is.

[C]

You haven't said thank you once. Yeah, like what am I, what do I need to say thank you?

[D]

It's because of this deep desire to please Donald Trump and everybody tries to outdo themselves and somehow thank you became the new way to do that. And shoes. Thank you. And shoes.

[C]

Your shoes look like they fit.

[A]

Yeah,

[C]

we had a little. Just a friendly disagreement among pals on text over this guy Joe Kent. Not the greatest, we should just say, we should acknowledge Mr. Kent has a pretty sketchy background if you really need a good laugh sometimes. I wrote an article a couple years ago about this video where he was like apologizing to some Hitler youth for pink and being like, please support me in the campaign, young Hitler Youth. And so, you know, he's got some bad views and yet he's really, he's like the first person in this administration to say, no, you're breaking your promises. This is not what you said you were gonna do. He put out a statement. The statement had a couple conspiracy theories about what was happening in the past, but it was pretty accurate, I think, about what's happening now, which is you said you weren't gonna do a war with Iran. They weren't an imminent threat. It seems like Israel had a very big influence on you getting into this war. And I can't be a part of it. I'm quitting. And so the question is, do we have to hand it to the Joe Kent's and Marjorie Taylor Greene's of the world. Should we welcome them into our fold or should we hiss at them?

[D]

So now, now here's the interesting thing.

[C]

He's on his side, I think.

[D]

Here's the interesting thing, like I am chief of. Hey, we need to welcome people that See the light and leave maga. That's the only way to win. It's the right thing to do. But let me say where there is a line, and I'm very clear about

[C]

this, Hitler Youth is the line.

[D]

Hitler Youth. Like, there is a line between if somebody is an unapologetic insurrectionist, Right? And so for me, that's Marjorie Taylor Greene. I've never once seen her express an ounce of remorse about what happened on January 6. But the other Joe Kent, who is a clear. And has not disavowed it, white nationalist. And so my view on this is, can we be glad that he left? Sure. Do we have to hand it to him? Absolutely not. Because his reason for leaving, though, we may agree on the outcome, which is like, the Iran war shouldn't be happening. His reason is Jewish conspiracy. Whereas our reason is like, we just probably shouldn't have attacked Iran right now because it was kind of dumb to do.

[C]

Is it. Okay, this is maybe a little heavy, but is it. I mean, he avows some other Jewish conspiracies. This is why this thing gets complicated. But, like, it's not really a Jewish conspiracy to say that Israel kind of strong armed us into this war. I mean, they did. And, like, that's just what happened. You know, I'm stealing this line from my friend John Lovett, my frenemy John Lovett, you know who, he said that nothing is true, is anti Semitic, you know, and nothing that is anti Semitic is true. And in this case, if it's a true statement that Israel bullied, strong armed, cajoled Trump into this war, then, like, saying it is something that people should be able to say.

[D]

Yeah, there's something unique when somebody says, like, Jewish lobby, though. I think there is. There's something in that. But again, it's not even. Even a disagreement with what's in the statement. My point is we can agree with somebody's outcome or be glad that they left, but we have to be very careful to welcome them into the coalition.

[C]

Right. And that when they go running to Tucker immediately.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, he goes and runs to Tucker immediately. So, yes, Joe Kent, I'm glad he left because he was actually a really bad dude in an important position, too. But he didn't do it for the same reason. For instance, I would have if I was in that position.

[C]

Kind of a tough one. You know, there's a saying that, that people like us use when there's, like, there's two sides fighting. You don't know who to pick. It's like, it's kind of like picking in the Iran Iraq war. And it's kind of ironic in this situation, sort of like Joe Kent and Tucker versus Trump and Hags up is kind of like my Iran, Iraq.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It's like, why are you making me choose? It's like, why are you making me choose?

[D]

Do you want to go vacation in Tehran or Baghdad? Like, I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I hear you on that. I think that at some level, I think that there's a good without welcoming whatever him that whatever that means. There's something that I think that we could do that could be useful, which is to say to people that earnestly believed, even if they were mistaken and we tried to tell them that they were wrong, that Donald Trump was going to be the peace candidate and that he was going against the deep state, the warmongering deep state. And we shouldn't be getting in stupid wars. We shouldn't be sending Americans over to die. Like, if people believed that and they signed up for them and now they feel like they've been betrayed. And I don't think it's wrong. I think it's correct, actually, for James Talarico and anyone else in the Democratic Party to say, you're welcome with me because I'm not going to get us into stupid war.

[D]

Yeah, I guess I agree. I agree with like, you know, we'll take your vote. At this moment, I just think we have to be very careful. You know, I don't care who votes for me as long as it counts as one. I just think, you know, we have to be very. So my.

[C]

Some pretty bad people voted for you. Turn your time. Some people had some pretty nutty views. Cast a ballot for Adam Kinsey and

[D]

every one of them are welcome back whenever. So my friend Rich Logis, who runs an organization called leaving MAGA. Leaving maga.org he says basically, it's like this sounds funny, but it's true and it's important. It's like a support group for people that leave MAGA because you get excommunicated from a community and a family. And so you need that support. So he runs this. Well, his part of the whole thing to be part of Leaving MAGA is you have to admit, in essence, your role in the destruction of what MAGA has done. Because he says if somebody's not willing to do that, then they have not come to grips with what this movement is. And I would kind of apply that to if somebody's an ally or not.

[C]

All right, last thing before we get to our game. You served honorably and you've got veteran friends, I'm sure. What is the vibe like? And if you look at Pete, it's hard for me to put myself in this view as somebody that hasn't served. It's like, Pete Egseth is a former weekend TV co host and he is like, such a clown. And these press conferences are so embarrassing. And to think that that person is the point person for your friends who are still serving and making decisions for them, to me, it would be horrifying. But I don't know.

[D]

What are you hearing? Yeah, I'm glad you asked this. So, first off, too, and there's nothing against this specific guy, General Dan Kane. He could be a fantastic general, but this is a guy that was promoted to Joint Chiefs that was not in line and basically had not had the kind of, like, coaching that happens to the person that's going to be the next Joint Chief Chairman. This guy was like, I love. I'm an Air National Guardsman. He was an Air National Guard general, probably really smart. But you put him.

[C]

He got the job because of his nickname.

[D]

Yeah, he totally did. Because his nickname is Raisin. Raisin Cane. And Trump like that. And. But he's probably fantastic. But you take him, you take Hegseth and Trump, and that's who's leading this war. So I will tell you, Tim, for the first time, because I'd get asked this question before Iran kicked off and I'd be like, you know, I'm not hearing from my friends like this fear, because it's Pete Egseth. I am hearing that now. And honest to God, I am talking to people that are like, nobody that's hardcore MAGA because they'll never admit it. But like my friends that probably voted for Trump, they're furious. The ones that are still in. I have one friend who is a C17 pilot, and they're like, they're abusing them in terms of just like, they get 60 hours of notice all of a sudden to deploy to the Middle East. And you think about what that means. There are not enough crews now in these aircraft. So they're driving them harder, waiving their crew duty days. They're flying every day. We're one base, I heard this anecdotally, has basically had to start rationing food because they got hit by an Iranian missile. They can't gather in the chow hall anymore because Iranian missiles are targeting that. They're miserable and they feel like we went to war without being properly prepared. And it kind of feels like that for me.

[C]

They're right.

[A]

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[C]

All right, guys, you ready for this? We brought Adam here for something that I want to call the cuck off. Now, I had a message from a fan from Australia, and they're like, tim, you keep using this word, cuck, and I don't know what it means. And that's fair. And so I just want to give you guys a little backstory. Around 2015, when people like me and Adam were supporting Jeb in our case, where we became pals, but. Or Marco or any of the other candidates, John Kasich, the MAGA folks called us cuckservatives. Their thing was, you guys don't have the balls like you. You probably aren't even screwing your own wives, you know, you're cucks. That was their insult.

[D]

You know, it actually came from. Because they would say, like, you sit in a chair while somebody's effing your country.

[C]

Yeah. Effing your country. Yeah. So that was their joke. As you can tell, nobody's laughing. It's not that funny. We've co opted it, though. We've co opted it, and we've owned it. We've owned the term. Kind of like how the gays. We can say the F word. F's word. You can't say it, but I can say it if I want to. It's kind of like that. We have co opted cuck servative. And, you know, it is kind of funny, actually, when you think about it in retrospect. I mean, is there a bigger cuck right now than the Donald Trump supporters in Congress? I mean, John Cornyn, literally, that guy is. That guy is strapped into the cuck chair. He's got an ad. He's like, big John Cornyn. It's like big John Cornyn does whatever daddy Trump wants now. So it is kind of like a projection thing. Anyway, so for the cuck off, I thought, you know, before we started playing to, you know, the liberal fans, I was like, what we should do is bring back our roots, you know, the servative part. All right? Our never Trump roots. And we're each gonna give you two rants that speak to our roots, and then you get to vote over who is the chief cuck in the cuck off. Are you ready? Okay. I'm gonna go first. All right, here we go.

[D]

To be fair, he's probably been planning this for a long time. And this is Newton.

[C]

You can grade Adam on a curve if you want. He already knows. He already knows he's getting cucked by me. Okay, Are you ready? Here's mine. Number one, Neoconservatives are getting a bad rap right now. Okay? Stick with me. Stick with me. We're getting a bad rap. Okay? All right. We made. We made some bad choices. Now, I didn't make that many bad choices when sometimes liberals come up to me and they're like, you were for the Iraq war. Why should I listen to you? And I was like, I was hitting the bong with my buddy Blake sitting over there during the Iraq war. Okay? I was not for the. I did not have any role in the Iraq war, okay? But, okay, my people did, you know, culturally, spiritually, and, you know, they made a lot of mistakes. But there was an earnest feeling among the original neoconservatives, which was, we want to bring democracy and freedom to the world. Execution was bad. Intentions were good, though. You know, it was like, these guys deserve better than the fucking ayatollah and Saddam. They're terrible. Why can't we have George Al Washington take over Syria? It was a good Idea. Maybe not that good of idea, but the intentions were good, all right? And now after they started this stupid fucking war in Iran, people are using neoconservative as a slur again. And I'm like, these people aren't fucking neoconservatives. They are corrupt, jingoistic war hawks. They don't care about the freedom of the Iranian people. They're not fighting for the freedom of the Iranian people. They're not interested in that in any way. They don't care. They want money. They want to sell their bullshit cryptocurrency to the uae. They want to build a Trump Tower in Tehran. They don't care what Ayatollah takes over next. And so this is not a neo conservative thing. It's a classic stupid war hawk thing. And they're bad and they are wrong and they're fucking it up. And it's also hurting my feelings a little bit. So there's my first rant. Neo conservatism. Well intentioned but bad.

[D]

Can I get three cheers for neoconservatism? Alright, alright. I'm going to have to go after Democratic politicians for my first rant. Okay? Don't worry, I'm going to go after Republicans. The second rant, okay? The one thing that we have learned from Donald Trump, beyond corruption, beyond the fact that he's completely free, beyond the fact that people think he's genuine, but that's hilarious because he's absolutely fake, okay. Is that people hate talking points. Okay? People can sniff out talking points. I think it is time for my Democratic politician friends to take the talking points you have memorized, light them on fire and never think about them again. Why do I say this? I get it. It's good to have words like affordability and say affordability. But once you start down the path of saying it exactly how you've said it 800 times, people think you're a typical politician. I would much rather people talk about it in a non articulate way, but in a way that it's the first time I've heard them saying it because then I actually know they believe it. And they're not looking at polling groups and testing their message. No offense to focus groups.

[C]

You know, they're important focus groups.

[D]

But I will tell you, I will tell you one of the things that was eye opening to me as I got involved in the January 6 committee and with the Democrats.

[C]

Okay, now you're playing to the audience. All right?

[D]

Tim wasn't on the January 6th committee. He wasn't on it? No. But it was amazing to me when I started to see how that works, how much they rely on talking points and people coming in and briefing on how this polls. So my rant for this first half is to say, throw out the talking points. Speak from your heart and speak to people. That's it.

[C]

Okay? That is round one of the cuckoff. Round one. Okay, don't just grade on round one. Think about the whole presentation.

[D]

He was for neocons. I'm for throwing out talking points.

[C]

Round two of the cuckoff. Are you ready? All right. I've been. This one's been cooking in the oven for 14 years now. Justice for Mitt Romney. Justice for Willard. Mitt Romney. Sorry, sorry. If you remembered for all the olds out there, there are a couple college kids I saw on the line earlier. I appreciate you all for coming out. You're not gonna remember this, okay? But back in 2012, when I was a young buck working for Mitt Romney, there was a little controversy about something called binders full of women. Do you remember Binders full of women? And all of the Democrats were out there saying, mitt Romney is a sexist. He had binders full of women. He doesn't treat us like people. The Republicans are sexist and misogynist. We can't vote for Mitt Romney. And it's like, wait a minute. The binder was full of resumes of qualified women that he wanted to hire. That was Mitt Romney's crime. He was trying to hire women to work in his government and he thought that there were too many men and he wanted to bring some gender balance. He was woke before woke was in. He was trying hard and you all attacked him for it and called him a sexist. And then you know what you got the next time? A guy grabbing women by the pussy. So you're fucking welcome. All right, have you introduced appreciated earnest milk drinking Mitt Romney who wanted to hire women for his cabinet, then maybe we wouldn't be here right now. Round two of the justice for Mitt Romney.

[D]

All right, my side of this is completely unfair because he's defending unpopular things and I'm just going to go after people.

[C]

That's cool.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

We invited you. You should play to the crowd. All right,

[D]

Second, it's time to go after the Republicans. And I'm thinking of two in specific that I'm sorry, I'm not going to name, but you can figure them out. Maybe. But it's an archetype of person. Okay? And this is the concerned Republican. Okay? These are the People that know that what's going on is wrong. They know that, for instance, we should be supporting Ukraine. They know that the war in Iran shouldn't have been launched. They know everything about that. And instead of voting that way, they tweet their concerns and then vote how Donald Trump wants. Did you know just two Republicans in the House of Representatives uniting can shut down the floor of the House of Representatives forever until Mike Johnson does what they want. So every time somebody says they're concerned or they don't like or they wish, they have an opportunity to go do something, and they simply choose not to. Because they are not the alpha males that they say they are.

[C]

Brian Pitpatrick.

[D]

They are, in fact, Cucks. Thank you very much.

[C]

All right, here we go. Audience decides. If you think that I won the cuck off, scream for me.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

If you think. If you think Adam won the cuck off, screen for him. That is such bullshit. That is such bullshit. Thank y' all very much.

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[E]

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