Bulwark Takes: Tim and Katie Spill on 2028 Rumors, Trump’s Boring Wedding, and Fighting for Democracy
Release Date: May 28, 2025
In this engaging episode of Bulwark Takes, hosts Tim Miller and Katie Couric delve into a range of pressing political topics, offering insightful commentary and personal anecdotes. The conversation seamlessly navigates through rumors of political ambitions, reflections on the changing political landscape, critiques of former President Donald Trump, and strategies for preserving democracy. Below is a detailed summary of the key discussions, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for context.
1. Adam Kinzinger’s Potential Presidential Run
[00:32 - 01:16]
Katie Couric initiates the conversation by discussing her recent interview with former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, highlighting his surprising openness about considering a presidential bid.
Katie Couric:
“I interviewed him not long ago, Tim, and asked him about whether he was going to run for president. And he was super, actually honest with me and said, you know, I'm considering it.” [00:42]
Tim Miller reflects on his attempts to recruit Kinzinger to support Donald Trump in 2020, acknowledging the futility of such efforts but appreciating Kinzinger's candidness.
Tim Miller:
“Adam, my goodness, dude is unleashed. I love it. I want more unleashed politicians and ex politicians.” [00:49]
2. The Coarsening of Political Culture
[01:16 - 03:16]
The hosts discuss the enduring impact of Trump on political discourse, emphasizing the permanent shift towards a coarser and more polarized environment.
Tim Miller:
“I think once Trump’s been around for a decade, I think that the coarsening of the politics is permanent.” [02:00]
Katie expresses her frustration with the declining civility in political interactions, sharing a personal anecdote about online harassment related to her comments on funding cuts for the NIH.
Katie Couric:
“I was like, hey. I was like, hi, I'm... No, I'm not a scientist, but I actually started an organization that raised $800 million for cancer research...” [04:26]
3. Reflections on Trump’s Wedding and Narcissism
[07:00 - 13:03]
Katie recounts her experience attending Donald Trump's wedding, providing a critical view of the event and Trump’s interpersonal demeanor.
Katie Couric:
“The reception was at Mar-a-Lago. And this is... it was really boring.” [12:38]
The conversation shifts to an analysis of Trump’s narcissistic traits, with Katie lamenting the emptiness behind his self-aggrandizing behavior.
Katie Couric:
“I think that I don’t feel sorry for him because he's a narcissist, but I'm just saying it's really almost tragic.” [08:58]
Tim adds his perspective on Trump’s inability to align with the foundational American ideals that initially inspired him.
Tim Miller:
“At the core, the ideological thing that sent me away from the party was I like, I really bought in to the Reagan shining city, city on the hill thing.” [09:20]
4. The Internal Struggles of the Republican Party
[14:14 - 16:12]
Tim discusses the tumultuous internal dynamics of the Republican Party during Trump’s administration, specifically highlighting Reince Priebus’s tenure as Chief of Staff.
Tim Miller:
“Reince got kicked out mostly because he couldn't control the staff from like trash talking each other constantly.” [15:52]
Katie questions the current status of Reince Priebus, leading to a discussion about his current activities and the broader implications for the GOP.
Katie Couric:
“What is Reince doing today?” [15:13]
Tim Miller:
“He has some appearances on Fox from time to time, and he's lobbying. He's probably making bank.” [15:55]
5. Trump’s Wealth and Corruption
[16:12 - 17:47]
The hosts critique the Trump family's accumulation of wealth and perceived corruption, expressing disbelief and frustration over their financial maneuvers.
Katie Couric:
“How can the Trump family enrich itself to the tune of $3 billion?... How are they able to be so fucking corrupt?” [16:46]
Tim Miller:
“Trump broke all of [the] norms. He's just like, I'm not gonna follow this.” [17:35]
They emphasize the necessity of holding Trump and his family accountable for their actions, noting the current shortcomings in this effort.
6. Preserving Democracy and Civic Engagement
[18:06 - 20:17]
The conversation shifts towards strategies for defending democracy amidst rising authoritarian tendencies. Tim advocates for grassroots activism and supporting organizations like Run for Something, which seeks to encourage diverse candidates to run for office.
Tim Miller:
“I think that there is still an opportunity to stop them at the ballot box and that people need to run for more offices, more local offices, more house offices.” [19:57]
Katie concurs, emphasizing the importance of community involvement and civic participation as antidotes to political paralysis.
Katie Couric:
“Getting involved in your community matters, and it obviously helps your community.” [19:12]
7. Addressing Immigration and International Accountability
[20:17 - End]
Tim highlights the critical issue of immigration policies, specifically focusing on the deportation of Venezuelans to El Salvador. He underscores the importance of activism, legal action, and international pressure to combat these policies.
Tim Miller:
“Divesting from El Salvador is something that can... both at a personal level, people's consumption, but also, you know, democratic states shouldn't treat it like North Korea or Venezuela.” [20:00]
Katie raises concerns about corporate accountability and the broader implications of governmental corruption on democratic institutions.
Katie Couric:
“What can we do to actually preserve democracy... it’s really scary.” [18:49]
Tim concludes by advocating for continuous attention and proactive measures to support affected individuals and uphold democratic values.
Notable Quotes with Timestamps:
- Katie Couric: “I'm not a scientist, but I actually started an organization that raised $800 million for cancer research...” [04:26]
- Tim Miller: “I really bought in to the Reagan shining city, city on the hill thing.” [09:20]
- Tim Miller: “Trump broke all of [the] norms. He's just like, I'm not gonna follow this.” [17:35]
- Katie Couric: “How can the Trump family enrich itself to the tune of $3 billion?... How are they able to be so fucking corrupt?” [16:46]
- Tim Miller: “Divesting from El Salvador is something that can... both at a personal level, people's consumption, but also, you know, democratic states shouldn't treat it like North Korea or Venezuela.” [20:00]
Conclusion
In this episode, Tim Miller and Katie Couric provide a candid and comprehensive analysis of the current political climate, highlighting personal experiences and broader societal issues. Their discussion underscores the enduring challenges to democratic norms and the importance of active civic engagement in addressing these challenges. For listeners seeking a thorough exploration of these topics, this episode of Bulwark Takes offers valuable insights and actionable perspectives.