Tim and Sam Rank Trump’s Cabinet From Hell

Summary

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Bulwark Takes: Tim and Sam Rank Trump's Cabinet From Hell

Podcast: Bulwark Takes
Hosts: Tim Miller & Sam Stein
Date: December 30, 2025
Episode Focus:
Tim and Sam gather at year's end to finalize their satirical, but scathing, rankings of Donald Trump's 2025 cabinet — playfully deeming it the "Cabinet From Hell." They break down each major appointment, sometimes quibbling and often commiserating over the degradation of public office, using a tiered system from “Livable” to “Please Don’t Kill Me” (worst of the worst). As they debate who’s incompetent, who’s malicious, and who’s just clownish, the conversation reveals sharp insights about the risks, damages, and absurdities present in governing institutions today.

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Ranking System Explained

(02:39–03:20)

• Categories:
  • Livable (Best)
  • Bad
  • Disastrous
  • Worst of the Worst / Please Don’t Kill Me (Absolute Bottom)
• Disagreement over top category terminology: Sam prefers "Please Don’t Kill Me" to highlight direct harm or existential threat.

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Key Cabinets & Debate Highlights

Attorney General: Pam Bondi

(03:42–04:59)

• Sam: “Firmly in the please don’t kill me, obviously. Is there a debate on that?” (03:54)
• Tim: Initially puts Bondi one tier down, calling her merely “disastrous.” Tim’s logic: She’s bad, but not quite in the league of others.
• Consensus: Disastrous, after debate.

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Other Minor Cabinet Members

Kelly Loeffler (Undetected, thus “Livable”)
Lee Zeldin (EPA):

• Sam: Disastrous (as an environmental risk).
• Tim: Livable, surprisingly mild. Jameson Greer (USTR):
• Split: Tim goes Disastrous, Sam just Bad (“He’s just doing the boss’s bidding.”)

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Major Figures— Where Does the Real Danger Lie?

Pete Hegseth (Dept. of War) vs. Marco Rubio

(06:18–08:57)

• Sam: “Please do not kill me, Pete Hegseth. Oh, my God...” (06:24)
• Sam’s logic: Hegseth is dangerously incompetent, could literally start a war “through sheer idiocy.”
• Tim: Ranks Marco Rubio as the worst (“You had, please don’t kill me, for Pete. What did you have for Marco?”), citing Rubio’s direct culpability in the “Venezuela Caribbean bombings,” leading to regime change, dead civilians, and global turmoil.
  • Quote: “Marco has decided that he wants to start a regime change war in South America for an unclear reason that no one can enunciate. And there are dead people in the Caribbean... It’s all Marco.” (07:27)
• Split remains: Hegseth is Sam’s #1; Rubio is Tim’s.

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Other Key Cabinet Grades

Sean Duffy, Transportation

(09:23–10:25)

• Tim: Disastrous (death at Reagan Airport, nepotism, airline dress codes).
• Sam: Upgrades to just “Bad” — credits for “knocking Elon Musk out.”

Linda McMahon, Education

(12:17–13:09)

• Sam: “She literally wants to eliminate her entire agency.”
• Consensus: Disastrous, just by very virtue of appointment (“we have the wife of a fake wrestling magnate running the Education Department”).

Brooke Rollins, Agriculture

(13:12–14:56)

• Tim: “She’s on the cusp of worst of the worst for me...Farm country is getting annihilated right now.”
• Sam: Accepts move from “Bad” to “Disastrous.”

Howard Lutnick, Commerce

(14:59–16:24)

• Both: Disastrous, but with semi-fond mockery; he’s so clownish “it’s kind of hard to hate him.”
• Tim raises the issue of “grift that his family is running” and idiotic economic policy.

Scott Besant, Treasury

(16:24–21:02)

• Tim: “Please don’t kill me/Worst of the worst” — “self-sabotage of the economy” and “most haughty, smarmy, obnoxious way possible.”
• Sam: “I have Scott in the bads.”
  • Quote: “I do find at least four more people more offensive in the cabinet.” (20:56)

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Intelligence & Security

Tulsi Gabbard, DNI

(21:29–22:27)

• Both: Disastrous, but “not worst of the worst—yet.” Main botch: exposing a spy in a tweet.

John Ratcliffe, CIA

(22:27–23:00)

• Tim: Livable
• Sam: Bad, maybe should be disastrous (uncertainty about covert failures).

Russ Vought, OMB

(23:41–24:40)

• Sam: “Please do not kill me...he could kill, probably has killed people through these cuts.” (23:41)
• Tim: Upgrades to worst-of-the-worst after Sam’s case.
  • Quote: “Destroyed the role of Congress, institutionalized the imperial president, and then cut every social safety net as much as he can.” (24:05)

Kristi Noem, DHS

(25:26–26:53)

• Both: “Absolute worst.”
  • “People have died in ICE custody...wrongfully sent people to a foreign torture prison and then went and took a fucking selfie picture in front of the prisoners. Like a snuff film.” (26:19)
• Consensus winner for worst of the year.

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Cabinet “Desserts” and Special Mentions

RFK

(27:13–28:06)

• Tim: “Disastrous.”
• Sam: “Please don’t kill me...probably the one most likely to kill me.”
• Sam offers a faint positive: “He’s provided incredible content...I thought more about bamboo because of him than I've ever imagined.” (28:11)

JD Vance (“If He Were Cabinet”)

(29:40–31:50)

• “Disastrous” tier for his “limp Ukraine support,” rhetorical divisiveness.
• But for sheer social aversion, Tim says: “I would go to boozy brunch with Scott Bessant every week versus having to spend a minute in the presence of JD Vance...” (31:27)

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Final Rankings — The “Worst of the Worst”

(28:31–33:10)

Mutual Top-Tier ("Please Don’t Kill Me")

• Kristi Noem (DHS): The “clear #1” for subjecting detainees to fatal conditions and human rights atrocities.
• Russ Vought (OMB): Budget cuts, weakening Congress, joy in harming public servants.
• Sam’s Additional: Pete Hegseth (for military idiocy), RFK (vaccine rollback, disease return).
• Tim’s Additional: Marco Rubio (war crimes), Scott Besant (economic sabotage).

Quote (on Noem):
“...she also wrongfully sent people to a foreign torture prison and then went and took a fucking selfie picture in front of the prisoners. Like a snuff film. Truly despicable and disgusting person.” – Tim (26:21)

Quote (on cabinet as a whole):
“I think it’s going to be a pretty competitive category in 2026.” – Tim (33:10)

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Notable Quotes & Banter

• “I literally think [Pete Hegseth] could get us killed.” – Sam (06:55)
• “Rubio...there are dead people in the Caribbean. We don’t even know who they are. We’re bombing them. It’s all Marco.” – Tim (07:27)
• “She [Linda McMahon] literally wants to eliminate her entire agency.” – Sam (12:28)
• “[Howard Lutnick] is a jester...the math thing really got to me…such an idiot, you know?” – Sam (16:24)
• “I think Christy [Noem] takes the cake. I’ve been on an RFK kick all year, so what a year. Christy.” – Sam (32:51)

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Summary Table: Top “Please Don’t Kill Me” Cabinet Picks

| Sam (Top 4) | Tim (Top 4) | Both Agree | |----------------------|----------------------|---------------------------| | Hegseth | Rubio | Noem, Vought | | Noem | Noem | | | Vought | Vought | | | RFK | Scott Besant | |

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Tone & Style

• Informal, sharp, heavily sarcastic—yet fundamentally serious in its political critique.
• Frequent laughter, swearing, and inside jokes.
• Some sarcastic fake “credit” given for entertainment value or incompetence.

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Timestamps of Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------|---------------| | Cabinet ranking system explained | 02:39–03:20 | | Attorney General Pam Bondi debate | 03:42–04:59 | | Hegseth/Rubio debate | 06:18–08:57 | | Transportation & Education Secretaries | 09:23–13:09 | | Commerce & Treasury (Lutnick/Besant) | 14:59–21:02 | | Russ Vought’s legacy | 23:41–24:40 | | Kristi Noem dismemberment | 25:26–26:53 | | RFK, JD Vance side discussions | 27:13–31:50 | | Final worst-of-the-worst rankings | 32:08–33:10 |

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Conclusion

The episode is a biting and somewhat cathartic breakdown of how low the standards of governance have sunk under the hypothetical 2025 Trump cabinet. Tim and Sam’s gallows humor, pop culture references, and policy nerdiness combine to chart a bleak landscape, but their debates reveal underlying seriousness about the hazards of corruption, grift, and unchecked executive power. The two agree that Kristi Noem stands out as the “worst of the worst” for her deadly and morally repugnant record, while their differences elsewhere highlight the various flavors of dysfunction in the American executive branch.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

But that's not what I thought there was. The tip was about something else. Honestly, it was. I subtweeted you in one of the videos and I think they put.

[A]

But that was even. Well, we won't even get into that because that wasn't even a disagreement. It was just a matter of.

[B]

It was a disagreement. It was. No, it was a disagreement. I thought the. The Ben Shapiro speech at Mfest was a big deal. And you're like, they've been for all year.

[A]

You felt like it merited an emergency podcast. And I was watching plural.

[B]

I was in the moment.

[A]

Okay, maybe I was just like, they're all speaking. I'm going to be talking about it all fucking weekend. It's not an Emergency. You're getting me off. Away from the Nuggets game, whatever I was doing. That's a mild disagreement at best.

[B]

I might have been in the middle of parenting my children and putting them to bed and wanting to pass them off to the wife, So I was using that. Maybe. Honey, I got to go YouTube with Tim again.

[A]

Anyway, no issues, no beef, no issues.

[B]

Although I do disagree with your Scott bass.

[A]

Screaming is healthy. All right, we're going to go through the cabinet here.

[B]

Yeah, the whole cabinet.

[A]

We've created. We've created an ad hoc ranking system, which is. Which is livable. L for livable. H for horrifying. D for Wait, hold on. What's the fuck?

[B]

No, no, this is. This list. Livable, bad, horrifying, and Please don't kill me.

[A]

Oh, we've changed it.

[B]

Yeah, I changed it up.

[A]

Please don't kill me.

[B]

Yeah, as in I think you're going to kill me. Please don't do it. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's your. That's your. That's your RFK alone.

[B]

I know. I.

[A]

We gotta fix this. We're not gonna fix this. Going back to your initial. Initial list, I have multiple people in.

[B]

The please don't kill me category. But whatever.

[A]

I was gonna do worst of the worst, but Sam wants to make it please don't kill me. So worst of the worst, or please don't kill me. Kind of all together. Please don't kill me. Worst of the worst. So once again, livable was the best. Bad, disastrous. Worst of the worst. Please don't kill me. Those are the four categories. And we go through. Beginning with the Attorney General, Pam Bondi.

[B]

You started with Bondi.

[A]

Okay, the Attorney General, Pam Bondi. Where do you have her? Livable Bad.

[B]

Please don't kill me.

[A]

Disastrous. Worst of Lords. Please don't kill me.

[B]

I Firmly in the please don't kill me, obviously. Is there a debate on that? Where do you have her?

[A]

I was a little tough for that top category at the top of the pyramid. I saved the top of the pyramid for the. For really as named the worst of the worst.

[B]

All right, make your case for why she's only disastrous.

[A]

Well.

[B]

I'm curious. Defend Bambondi here.

[A]

I think Bambondi is disastrous. She is disastrous. She's been terrible. And yet when I look at some of the other people on the list here, and I start to think about, like, you know, I'm thinking about this pyramid style. Like, you only in that top category of worst of the worst. Please don't kill. How many people did you have there. How many people did you have in that top category? That's a lot. One.

[B]

Two. I have six.

[A]

Six. Okay. All right. I was trying to be a little more judicious. Three in that top. You're right.

[B]

A pyramid scheme. I'll put. I'll put Bondi in Disastrous. Do worry she might kill me, but yes.

[A]

Okay. Disastrous for Pam Bondi. All right, sounds good. Now we're going to move down to the bottom of the list here. Just going to kind of mix and match. We've got Kelly Leffler. I did not realize Kelly Leffer was in the cabinet until we started. Yeah, me either. Livable. So very livable. Livable.

[B]

Kelly for being totally unnoticed. That's great.

[A]

One more, kind of with no names. Lee Zeldin, EPA administrator. Ooh.

[B]

Where you got him? This is a tough one for me.

[A]

Yeah. Why? Because you're. You're a green. You're.

[B]

Yeah, I'm more of a greenie. He's. I. I don't think he's going to kill me, but he could. I have him in disastrous.

[A]

Disastrous.

[B]

You have him?

[A]

I had him in Livable. I got a lot of issues with the admin lead. Between you and me. All right. I'm sure in the commenters. Let me know why Lee's been worse than Livable. I'm open to that feedback. Okay. Jameson Greer, U.S. trade Representative. Got disastrous for Jameson Greer.

[B]

I got bad, but I. My case for bad is that he's just doing the boss's bidding. I don't think he's like, you know, which is bad. Like, let's be real. It's bad what he's doing, but it's not like he's not. He's not creating disaster.

[A]

Okay, we're going to move back up to some of the more named cabinet members here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Pete Hegseth, Department of War. Pete, Department of War. If.

[B]

If we're not aligned on this, there's something wrong. Do not kill me. Just please do not kill me. Pete Hegseth. Oh, my God. You're not there.

[A]

Well.

[B]

Oh, my God, you're not there.

[A]

I just. I just look at my list here, and I've got. Just kind of as a mental list I've got. He's my fifth worst cabinet member. Oh, he's my worst.

[B]

But don't you. Okay, let me just set the rules for why it's a. Please don't kill me, because I literally think he could get us killed. I mean, I'm. I'm being like.

[A]

That's like you and Me?

[B]

Yeah. I think he could accidentally start some sort of horrific military confrontation through sheer idiocy.

[A]

Yeah, that's perspective. That's prospective. I mean, for the year. So I guess we're going to lump these next two together. Where did you have Marco? I think this will be telling. Well, we'll do Marco and Pete Hexa together. You had please don't kill me for Pete. What did you have for Marco?

[B]

I had bad.

[A]

Okay, well, there you go. So we're an inverse here. So I had Marco in my worst of the worst. Please don't kill me. He's in my top worst cabinet members. I mean, if you're going to make a case against Pete, I think it would have to center on the Caribbean bombings. Yes, Right. Like, I mean, like he's been incompetent. There's the leak of the signal thing. He's ridiculous. Like, he called the generals in to talk to them about how they should do more pull ups. But like Corporal. Yeah, sure. No, no, there's been bad again. These are all ranges of bad. But I'm just saying, like, if you're going to make the case that he's in that top tier of worst of the worst, please don't kill me. That would center on the Venezuela Caribbean bombings. And those are Marco's idea. That's Marco. Like, that's not Pete Hegseth. Actually, Pete is going along with it. He's a willing puppy. But Marco has decided that he wants to start a regime change war in South America for an unclear reason that no one can enunciate. And there are dead people in the Caribbean. We don't even know who they are. We're bombing them. It's all Marco. And I've got him in worst of the worst Pete. And just disastrous.

[B]

Let me ask you this. Think about it this way. Let's say Donald Trump really isn't there in two years. Like, he's just mentally checked out.

[A]

Dementia.

[B]

Yeah, totally dementia. And like, who would you trust between Pete Hegseth and Marco? This is a great question to like, steer us in the right direction.

[A]

Obviously the answer is Marco, but I am taking this job literally. We are grading people on the first year. And in year one, Marcos had the worst year for me. Worse than Pete. Wow. That's where I'm at. Have I convinced you? Any movement?

[B]

No, absolutely not. No. If anything, you made my position stronger.

[A]

Just bad.

[B]

Just bad.

[A]

I got a lot. That's going to be the worst grade of the whole tenure. All right, I'm going to save the Next three, they're kind of our dessert for the end. I want to move down to the transportation Secretary. This is a tough one for Duffy.

[B]

You go first. Where'd you put him?

[A]

I had Sean Duffy in Disastrous. Maybe it's a personal thing, maybe that's a little bit hot, but I don't know. I don't want you to tell me that I have to wear a suit on airplanes. And there was the death. There was the death of Reagan. That wasn't cool. Hold on.

[B]

I like that you put the suit in the airplanes.

[A]

It was the death at Reagan.

[B]

It does.

[A]

Horrible. And he seemed to be giving him and his family a lot of. They were getting preferential treatment, you know, during.

[B]

So here. Here's where I came down. I was at disastrous. And then I put him into bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I gave him points for knocking Elon out. And I think he better.

[A]

Scott Bessant. That did that.

[B]

No, it was. Well, Besson literally, I think, fought Elon, but Duffy and Elon had something going on. Real tiff over that John Isaacman character. And I. He got Elon out and he withstood the. And so I'm gonna give him. I'm gonna give him a better category. Thank you, Sean.

[A]

Okay, so just bad for Sean Duffy, for you. I'm going disastrous. So that's it. That's another disagreement. All right, I'm going to run through a couple of the no names really fast. I'm assuming all of these people are livable, but if you. If they are not for you, you just interject.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Scott Turner, the HUD secretary.

[B]

No, I had a bad.

[A]

Okay, great. Let's. Let's hear. I'm open to pitches.

[B]

He. Yeah, first of all, he's pushing the anti immigrant stuff. He's saying they're the cause of housing shortages. But if you remember one of the websites during the government shutdown that just went full on blazing. Democrats are responsible for. This was HUD's website. So for that reason, I think you could do better. Scott Bad.

[A]

I'm gonna keep him at livable. Doug Burgam, Interior Secretary. If we had a better category than livable. He's our best secretary by far.

[B]

He's a Doug. He's a Doug. Everyone loves him.

[A]

Doug's neon Lori Chavez, dimmer. I kind of forgot she was in there. At least. Livable Doug Collins at Vet va. I feel like he's probably bad, but I don't have a great case for it.

[B]

He really. He kind of fucked up the whole Doge thing, if you recall. Oh, yeah, A lot of cuts. Then undid the cuts. There's been some controversy about more VA cuts now, so I put him in the bad.

[A]

Okay. And then we've got Chris Wright, Energy Secretary.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

Taking him.

[B]

We haven't had a nuclear war yet, so I'll live.

[A]

Yeah. He seems bad to me.

[B]

I know, but I couldn't really figure out. I mean, this could be my own ignorance. I don't know why, but I'm in livable. Just didn't have the time to do the homework on this guy.

[A]

Okay, I'm going with bad. We'll see what the comments. Well, I feel like I'm right, though. I think that the facts are there. Linda McMahon. Education Secretary Linda McMahon.

[B]

I mean, I have her as disastrous. Do you not. You have a livable?

[A]

Where are you going? No, I was. I was. No, I don't have a livable. I was between bad and disastrous.

[B]

She literally wants to eliminate her entire agency, so I think that's bad.

[A]

But has she been doing it?

[B]

They're kind of down pretty badly, but they haven't quite eliminated it yet. I'm gonna go with disaster.

[A]

She's really dumb. I mean, it is. I just think, like, I think we just do better as a matter of. I just. Her existing as the Education Secretary is disastrous. It's like we have the wife of a fake wrestling magnate running the Education Department. I know.

[B]

It's totally.

[A]

It's.

[B]

What is her credentials for education.

[A]

So that is kind of disastrous on its own. Okay, we'll. We'll. All right, here we go. Here. Oh, wait. Did you go.

[B]

Wait. So wait, I convinced you to do disastrous.

[A]

Good. Yeah, you won me over on that one.

[B]

Now we're getting into tough territory here.

[A]

We are. Because this one here is kind of a sleeper for me. Brooke Rollins, Agriculture Secretary.

[B]

Oh, this was a tricky one. I had bad. But I'm curious for why you went disastrous.

[A]

Oh, it's definitely disastrous. I mean, she's on the cusp of worst of the worst for me. I would. I mean, I think that.

[B]

Bake. Your case.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What is.

[A]

Well, I mean, the farm country has been hit the worst by all of this. She's out there telling people that they should be growing chickens and. And, like, fruit and veggies for themselves in their. In their backyard. That's. That's, like, a case she's been making. There is. There have been horrible raids, immigration raids on farms, and. And she. And, like, she's had complaints from industry, and she's kind of sided, basically with the rate of the immigration raiders and she's an idiot. And farm country is getting annihilated right now. And they did just get this bailout at the end. I don't know. Unfortunately for her, it's just really tough to get into the. To the please don't kill me worst of the worst category because, yeah, I'll.

[B]

Move her, but you make a valid case. I'll move her to disastrous. She's moving. Okay.

[A]

I mean, if you were grading on the curve of like, like, how bad could you be in your office? Like, she might be the worst. Like a vorp in a VORP style rating. Like, how bad could the her and Lutnick would be there? Like, how bad the Commerce and Agriculture secretary really be? Like, how much damage could you do from those purchase. They've done quite a lot. Like, there's a lot of room for damage at Defense, let's say, but not, you know, you can only do so much at Agriculture. Anyway, disastrous for her. And that takes us to our favorite, the Commerce Secretary, Howard Nutlik.

[B]

Man, here we go. I. I was really turn on this one. I was really torn. I went with disastrous. I did. I think you're gonna go work. Okay, fine.

[A]

I did too. And it probably comes down to really, he's so clownish and he's just so goofy and, you know, it's kind of hard to hate him like in a cast of really hated people. It's like Nutlik, like, this is just ridiculous. I mean, this is. He's a jester and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, I mean, you have to put them in disastrous over just bad because like the economic policy and the trade policy, it's just been like Rake stepping over and over again and of the absurd, spinning on behalf of Trump and pretending he doesn't know how math works. And then on top of that, the thing that only knocks him in, almost knocks him into worst of the worst for me, you know, is the grift that his family is running. I mean, his, his kids. I guess, I guess I shouldn't make any of this wild accusations, but let's just say that the Letnick kids had their best year investing in the history of the company. That doesn't seem like an accident to. It seems like they're, you know, they may have a few nudges. So I think probably objectively he should be in worst of the worst instead of the next person. I'm about to say. But, you know, likability just gets you a long way in life. And Nutlik is just slightly more likable than our next nominee, which is Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besant.

[B]

Okay, first of all, before we get to Besant, let me just say I agree 100% with everything you said. That was literally my rationale in Lutnick. I was like, he's kind of likable in this goofy, dumb way. And the math thing really got to me. He's like the stupidest spin about Trump and the math. And I was just like, I kind of found that endearing because you're such a. You're such an idiot, you know? All right, back to your boy.

[A]

That takes us to Besant. And this is again, this is maybe the soft bigotry of low expectations, I guess, for life. Oh, no, because Besant for me gets. Please don't kill me. Worst of the worst. And. And they're the same, right? Like they have the same job. Essentially, they're the economic advisors. Trump obviously trusts Besant more. Besant has gone along with the self sabotage of the American economy and he's done so in the most haughty, smarmy, obnoxious way possible. And he's in my top three. He's the top of the pyramid. Worst of the worst for me.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

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[B]

We have a very big divergence here.

[A]

Marco and Bessant. It's strange you'd think that me as the former, you know, former establishment Republican gone to the, you know, who's done a face turn. You think I would have some, like, residual feelings for the more establishmenty, normsy Republicans, but yet it's you who do and. And actually doesn't.

[B]

Surprise.

[A]

No psychological thing.

[B]

Yeah, here's my. Here's my take on that. Is that you see them for what they are, which are people who have just sold out and you recognize that they are just kind of soulless about all this and that they're creating a lot of damage and willingly doing so against their better judgment.

[A]

And I hate them more. Yes.

[B]

And I under the hair is saying, okay, like, maybe there's some hope still, like, maybe they can pull us back. They seem sane. I have Scott in the bads.

[A]

Sorry. Has there ever been a more offensive cabinet level surrogate for a president, like somebody when they come on offensive, like when they come on the TV that you find less appealing? Has there ever been a lot of.

[B]

There's like four on this list you.

[A]

Find less appealing when they talk than Scott Besant. There are. You don't feel like you're. You don't feel like you're getting a stuffed shirt fucking stick up his ass, like just over here ruining the economy. But you guys are so stupid. And the fake news, it's not just the way he talks. It's not.

[B]

It's the way he sits and talks.

[A]

Yeah, the sitting. The chest.

[B]

But. But yeah, to answer your question, I do find at least four more people more offensive in the cabinet.

[A]

Okay, well, there it is. We're really.

[B]

We're really at the.

[A]

Tells you something that I just want to say once again. You said that you had six people in the worst category.

[B]

Well, I took Bondi out.

[A]

I had said so you had five, I had three. And two of the three have already made it for me. Marco Rubio, Scott Bessant.

[B]

The fact that I know you don't rate some of these people. The worst of the worst is actually just distressing me out. Okay, so when we get to this, I'm gonna have real problems.

[A]

We'll continue. Now we go to the intelligence arena. Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabb.

[B]

I struggled, but I put her in disastrous. Not worse than the worst.

[A]

Yeah, she's disastrous. I just don't think you can put her in the worst of the worst until, like, you know, something bad's gotta happen first. Like there's some leak about something that she gave a heads up to the Russians too, or something.

[B]

Yeah, nothing like that's happened yet.

[A]

You don't hear a lot of good reporting. You don't hear a lot of people.

[B]

You don't hear a lot of reporting.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

And so, you know, give her credit for that.

[A]

I mean, I guess the last reporting you really heard about her was like when she was, you know, firing, you know, doing witch hunts within the department.

[B]

Yeah, but who wasn't?

[A]

And that's a particular area where, you know, it's probably, probably we want people that are, you know, have skilled in her expertise in the intelligence area and like, whether they, whether they did one.

[B]

Tweet expose a spy or something like that. I think she might have done.

[A]

Yeah, she did accidentally expose a spy. Yeah. Yeah, disastrous for her. To John Ratcliffe, CIA Director.

[B]

You know, honestly.

[A]

I put him at Livable. I don't know, dude.

[B]

I haven't really had it. I mean, thank God. I don't really know what the CA is doing, but it seems like they're.

[A]

Yeah, I have recliff it bad, but maybe should be disastrous if we knew more. And I guess I should know. You kind of can't rate him because we do not know how good the intelligence has been on the boat bombing.

[B]

Right, right. Oh, good point.

[A]

Because they're like putting it on him. And not that I would approve the boat bombings if they were actually horrible drug dealers, but like in the theory that they are legitimately dangerous narco terrorists, then. Okay, well, I think that would rate him one way, assuming what we kind of assume, which is that like, at least some of the people have been, I don't know, people human trafficked or people that were like doing a gig work, whatever. Like that would take him. That would take him pretty high towards more towards disaster. So we're going to leave him at bad for me. All right, we've got. I kind of forget that this person counts as a cabinet person. A very influential, obviously in the administration. And that's Russell Vogt.

[B]

Yeah, man, you can. You can guess where I came down on this one. Please do not kill me, because I honestly think he's going. He could kill. I probably has killed people through these cuts, but not good. Not my favorite of the cabinet.

[A]

Yeah. I gotta tell you said he had five. I'm gonna go ahead and upgrade myself to four. I'm gonna also give Russ votes.

[B]

So you had him. I assumed you had him in this.

[A]

I had him in disastrous. Yeah, I'd have been disastrous.

[B]

But he's been pretty bad. I mean, I don't. I don't think there's been much to hang your hat on. Unres. Basically up the entire appropriations process, destroyed the role of Congress, you know, institutionalized the imperial president, and then cut every social safety unit as much as he can. But other than that.

[A]

Yeah. On top of that, I guess I would say he also cut hundreds, thousands of public servants who were just doing their job, doing things that are hard to see about.

[B]

Took glee in. It. Took a lot of glee in doing that.

[A]

Could protect, you know, things that, you know, scientists, experts. People are talking about that story in Montana the other day. People like, doing, you know, working the land out in our public lands. I just. Across the board, just unbelievable amount of cuts. And the result, by the way, was not even like a cut in the deficit or debt. Like, they didn't even. They managed to not even cut the debt at all by cutting all those people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, well, there you go. You've won me over twice now. I don't think I've convinced you one time. So you're pretty stubborn.

[B]

No, you got me to put Bondi out of the worst of the worst.

[A]

Okay, great. Let's now go back to our remaining big ticket items. We've got Christy Noem, Department of Homeland Security.

[B]

Dude, I mean, is it. Again, I'm very. The curiosity now is why there's three out there. Just big boys out there. That's one of them or two of them. You haven't rated in worst of the worst. So I'm very curious. Gnome is the worst. Is. Please don't kill me. I mean, I feel like she's killing people.

[A]

Gnome is worse. And if. And so if you had to choose, if we had done a pyramid system where the top slot was a single cabinet member, who would you have had as your top worst cabinet member?

[B]

We'll get to that at the end. Let's go through the final. Yeah, yeah. So, Noam, was she in yours?

[A]

I'll Just say yeah. I mean, Kristi Noeman would have been mine absolute worst. And again, grading on their performance in the year 2025. She's been absolutely despicable. And it's hard to even.

[B]

People have died. People have died in ICE custody. I mean, it's like. It's just horrifying. So.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And you wouldn't know it watching CBS News, but she also wrongfully sent people to a foreign torture prison and then went and took a fucking selfie picture in front of the prisoners. Like a snuff film. Truly despicable and disgusting person. And like, the only thing really that you could say about her is the good news is, like, maybe some of her friends that knew her as a younger woman, like, don't recognize her anymore, literally, because she has a new face. So I don't know.

[B]

You just have to throw that out there.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I guess just kick. Can't pass up an opportunity.

[A]

Also, the personal life, not great. I mean, stop. Let's move on.

[B]

We have a couple more.

[A]

I mean, imagine just the breath that Corey Lindowski has when he gets up next door after they.

[B]

Why do we have to do this every time? All right, then. My last guy, rfk.

[A]

I'll give mine and that's level.

[B]

Sorry, you're gonna have to. You're gonna have to turn this off.

[A]

Livable. Like, literally.

[B]

You're kidding.

[A]

I mean it literally, though. Like, I've lived in 2025. Yes, you've lived all of these people.

[B]

So then put all of them into the fucking livables. You've lived around.

[A]

I'm just kidding. Disastrous for rfk, for me. Disaster, really.

[B]

I was about to literally quit the bull work. I was that close. Needless to say, this man is M A. Please don't kill me. And I do believe that he is probably the one most likely to kill me. So congratulations to rfk. Don't really need to lie.

[A]

Any comments? Any positive, like, kind of you're doing a toots and boots on RFK this year. Anything you want to.

[B]

Zach?

[A]

Yeah, if.

[B]

Want to zag on rk Well, I mean, he's provided incredible content.

[A]

Like there's that nine part substack series discussing.

[B]

I thought more about bamboo because of him than I've ever imagined. I wouldn't have to if, you know. You know. You know, occasionally around town here in D.C. like, people see him spotting spot him at the tanning salon in Cleveland park. And I've been kind of. I drive by there on my way to work and I've been looking for him. So that's given me something to do and that's about it.

[A]

That's all I got. So then if we're gonna review here ended up being not that. Not that distant and our worst of the worst. You had Hegseth, I had Rubio. Y. We both had Gnome.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

We both.

[B]

I got you to put Russ back.

[A]

We both had vote. We both had vote and Gnome.

[B]

And then so I had rfk. You did not have rfk and I. Yeah, that's it. We're pretty close. I think the big one is Hexath.

[A]

And Rubio and I stand. I. Oh wait. And I'm Besant and you didn't. So I guess this will be what the commenters can weigh in in our top category for the worst of the top four. We have agreement on vote and Nome. My then two choices are Rubio because of the extrajudicial killings and the regime change war in Venezuela. You had Hegseth for obvious reasons and then I had Besant because of the self sabotage to the American economic system and you at rfk, you know, because of the measles being back. So I mean I think a compelling options either way.

[B]

Well, let me ask you because if. If you had to treat Vance as a cabinet member, where would you throw him?

[A]

It's an interesting question because his job is basically to post pretty much, you.

[B]

Know, or to go to Amfest.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I guess you're trying to think like what are the substantive reasons to think about where to put advance on your rankings, you know and like Gnome, we've listed it out. Russ vote. We listed out exactly what he did and what he's responsible for. Rubio versus Heck says we know they're responsible for best with the tariffs versus RFK with you know, bringing back the measles. Right. What would be the thing that you would say for Vance? I guess it would be the kind of limp Ukraine support. You know, I think he's been kind of the key player internally at, you know, at this rigamarole where we kind of like pretend like we're going to support him for a minute then pull back. And he did dress down Zelinsky in the Oval Office. I guess I would probably put him if we're just rating on output in 2025 below for me, Rubio vote and Gnome.

[B]

So you got him in the disastrous category.

[A]

No, I guess. No. What I would do is I'd. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I put him.

[B]

That's fine.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That's about where I have them. And for, for similar reasons. I do think the like, coercion, the like the worsening of the rhetoric, the, the sort of divisive racist stuff that definitely is an additive in the bad disastrous category. So I put him about the same. Well, I don't think he has responsibility.

[A]

He's like the least appealing person in all of public life throughout my entire like right. Existence. So I mean just to, just to give a sense for like my loathing of him. Like I had mentioned earlier that I found Scott Besant to be the least appealing cabinet member in his public presence of any cabinet member I can recall. If I had to go to a four hour boozy brunch with Scott Besant versus having to spend a minute in the presence of JD Vance in a non journalistic setting, in a social setting, I would go to boozy brunches Scott Besson every week versus having to spend.

[B]

I actually think it'll be fun. I'd have fun with Scott Besson at a boozy brunch. I assume he's going to buy some high end shit.

[A]

Yeah. Champagne. Yeah. I find JD Best bands to be unbelievably unappealing on every possible level. I just do think that he's below those others as far as. As. As far as kind of ranking harms caused in year one.

[B]

All right, man, let's rack him and stack him. What do we got?

[A]

I mean number one top gnome. I don't, I don't think that it's close, really. Honestly.

[B]

You know what I've said all year? It's RFK I and I'm gonna actually do one tunnel wrinkle. I'm going with gnome at the end of the year. I think for, I think for the totality of the year, it's a close call. And I'm only doing this because we're doing this right now. And RFK has still not changed a childhood vaccine schedule. It's possible he does. It's December 22nd when we're recording this. It's possibly does, in which case I'd have to revise my opinion. But I think in terms of sheer human damage as of now, I think Christine takes the cake. And I've been on an RFK kick all year, so what a year. Christie.

[A]

Happy Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Happy New Year one and all. Me and Sam Stein have an agreement on the worst Cabinet Member of 2025. I doubt that she'll be able to retain her crown in 2026. Seems like she's probably on the way out. And I think that it's going to be a pretty competitive category in 2026. I think there's a lot.

[B]

I'm excited.

[A]

Yeah, everybody. Appreciate you all very much. Tell your friends, send this to them for a little laugh, you know, over their eggnog or. I don't know. What. What did you. What do you. What do you. What did you do around Hanukkah?

[B]

We drink eggnog, too. We wrote all the songs that you guys sing on Christmas. We drink your eggnog, too. We're fine.

[A]

We can.

[B]

We can get along.

[A]

I'm surprised the eggnog works with your constitution.

[B]

I mean, I don't personally drink, but we can drink. You know, I'm just sitting there in the corner drinking the Manischewitz, obviously. That's what I do, you know.

[A]

All right, everybody. Appreciate you all. We'll be seeing you soon. Make your home smell as good as it looks with Purifor, the smart fragrance diffuser that lets you control your scent from anywhere. Choose from hundreds of premium fragrances, schedule your favorites and set the perfect mood for every moment. And right now, get yours free when you subscribe to 2 cents for 12 months. Don't wait. This limited time offer won't last. Try it risk free for 30 days [e-mail]. guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree. Zoe. This thing weighs a ton. Drew Ski, lift with your legs, man. Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[B]

He's talking to you, Bridges.

[A]

I'm not. Of course he did. Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list. And elf, I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T mobile, you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing.

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[B]

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