Bulwark Takes: Tim & Bill on the Creepiest Trump Propaganda Yet

Date: October 29, 2025
Hosts: Tim Miller & Bill Kristol

Overview

In this timely episode of Bulwark Takes, Tim Miller and Bill Kristol analyze a new social media campaign from the Department of Labor under the Trump administration that, in their view, crosses the line into explicit white nationalist territory. They break down the campaign's imagery, discuss its resonance with 1950s nostalgia and blood-and-soil nationalism, and highlight the dangers of self-radicalization in American right-wing politics. The episode also delves into Tucker Carlson’s recent interview with white identitarian Nick Fuentes, exploring how extremist ideas are becoming increasingly normalized among Trump allies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Reaction to the Department of Labor Campaign

[00:37]–[03:32]

• Tim Miller describes the campaign's visual style:

  • Imagery is “definitionally white nationalist"—"nationalist social media campaign that only includes whites.”
  • Photos feature “Muscly white men, a blonde, another blonde, a blonde, a blonde … Oil rigs, refineries, Statue of Liberty, ironically… white family, American flag…all look vaguely like they're from the 1950s.”
    (Tim Miller, 00:37)

• Bill Kristol’s skepticism and concern:

  • Initially thought the images were a fake or parody due to their retro and extreme style.
  • Sees "Germany in the 30s resonance," finding the campaign grotesque and “cartoonish.”
    (Bill Kristol, 02:08)

• Historical echoes:

  • Emphasize the way this kind of propaganda draws from historical fascist imagery.

2. The Power and Danger of "Trolling" as Radicalization

[03:32]–[05:00]

• Tim Miller warns against dismissing the campaign as mere trolling:

  • “Sorry, I don't like the fact that it's a troll is not an excuse… eventually, over time, you start posting more and more of those things and you start to believe it, and you self-radicalize.”
    (Tim Miller, 03:32)

• Kristol on the "fever swamp" expanding:

  • The fringe of extremism within the Trump movement is “now…25%, 40%, 60%” of the movement.

3. Tucker Carlson’s Interview with Nick Fuentes

[07:32]–[12:09]

• Tim Miller recaps watching the full two-hour interview:

  • Notes that Carlson is “credulously trying to understand how Nick [Fuentes] got radicalized.”
  • Fuentes presents himself initially as merely a disaffected youth, but is “explicitly white identitarian.”
  • Concern that Fuentes, for the first hour, “does not come off as a wild eyed freak.” This makes the message more seductive to potentially radicalizable listeners.
  • “Tucker uses that word. You are ascendant in the movement. And Tucker has the number one most listened to news podcast… so it's extremely important.”
    (Tim Miller, 08:04)

• Absurd and disturbing turn in the interview:

  • Fuentes expresses admiration for Joseph Stalin and embraces inceldom—“not wanting to have a girlfriend and get laid… being celibate and liking Stalin”
    (Tim Miller, 10:23)
  • Tim’s take: This extremism may be self-limiting, as such views are inherently unappealing to most.

• Bill Kristol’s concern:

  • “I would have assumed that was the case a few years ago. I'm a little uncertain these days. Everything is sliding away…”
    (Bill Kristol, 10:56)
  • The radicalization pipeline is accelerating, and the normalization of figures like Fuentes is deeply troubling.

4. Dissecting the Department of Labor's “Project Firewall” Post

[12:09]–[17:22]

• The campaign’s message:

  • "Restoring the American dream... Project Firewall will restore the American dream by ensuring American jobs go to Americans first."
    (Tim Miller reading, 13:25)
  • Interpretation: Thinly veiled white nationalist message. Tim points out, “The only way to interpret that…is working on a project to ensure that white Americans whose stock goes back to the early parts of the country have advantage in job and getting jobs.”

• Kristol contextualizes Project Firewall:

  • Ostensible focus on H1-B visa reductions, but the imagery is all “blood and soil nationalism replacing American patriotism.”
    (Bill Kristol, 14:05)
  • Critically, "the American Dream" is framed as a racially exclusive concept rather than a universal one.

• Rhetorical lineage:

  • Miller likens the messaging to previous rhetoric: “America is for Americans and Americans only.”

• False nostalgia:

  • Campaign visuals appeal to an imagined 1950s America, ignoring the diversity and reality of the contemporary labor force.
    (Kristol, 16:19)

• The stakes:

  • Miller: “It would be very creepy and wrong if it's a campaign. But the Department of Labor actually is a department for all Americans, no matter their race, creed, gender, sexual orientation, religion. Right. And this administration does not think that.”
    (Tim Miller, 17:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tim Miller on radicalization:

  “Eventually, over time, you start posting more and more of those things and you start to believe it and you start to become—you self radicalize…”
  (03:32)

• Bill Kristol on fascist echoes:

  “…two thirds of me, thinks this is really grotesque and it really is white nationalist and it has a vague Germany in the 30s resonance to it.”
  (02:08)

• On the potential normalization of extremists:

  “Tucker has the number one most listened to news podcast … and so it's extremely important.”
  (Tim Miller, 08:04)

• On false nostalgia and blood-and-soil nationalism:

  “It is really European blood and soil nationalism replacing American patriotism.”
  (Bill Kristol, 14:05)

• Summing up the Department of Labor campaign:

  “It would be very creepy and wrong if it's a campaign. But the Department of Labor actually is a department for all Americans ... And this administration does not think that.”
  (Tim Miller, 17:05)

Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:37 – Miller’s breakdown of the campaign’s imagery
• 02:08 – Kristol’s initial disbelief and comparison to 1930s Germany
• 03:32 – Discussion of self-radicalization and “trolling”
• 07:32 – Recap of the Tucker Carlson/Nick Fuentes interview
• 10:23 – Fuentes’s Stalin admiration & incel talk
• 13:25 – Reading and interpretation of the Project Firewall post
• 14:05 – Kristol critiques the redefinition of the American Dream
• 16:19 – Discussion of America’s actual diverse labor force
• 17:05 – The core issue: The Department of Labor’s exclusionary stance

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, direct, and laced with dark humor and alarmed incredulity. Miller and Kristol maintain a tone of urgent concern, frequently referencing historical lessons and critiquing the normalization of extremism—while still delivering their signature dry wit.

Summary Takeaway

Tim Miller and Bill Kristol see frightening signs in recent Trump administration moves: both in the Department of Labor’s propagandistic, exclusionary campaign and in the growing mainstreaming of formerly fringe figures like Nick Fuentes. The episode closes with the stern reminder that this is no longer just trolling or fringe rhetoric—the dangerous slide from ironic racism to full-blown radicalization is now being powered from the highest levels of government and media.