Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes — "Tim Falls For New Dutch PM? (w/ Stan Veuger)"

Date: November 8, 2025
Host: Tim Miller
Guest: Stan Veuger (AEI Senior Fellow, native Dutchman)
Duration of main content: ~15 minutes

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode offers a lively, insightful discussion of the recent Dutch elections and the surprising rise of Rob Jetten, an openly gay, centrist-liberal poised to become the Netherlands' new Prime Minister. Host Tim Miller and guest Stan Veuger explore what this shift means for Dutch politics, the complexities of the Dutch party system (especially the state of the far-right), and potential lessons for American Democrats and centrists.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Dutch Identity ([00:00]–[00:32])

• Tim jokes about his old prejudice, riffing on an Austin Powers joke, but admits he's become a fan of the Dutch thanks to their new PM.
• Brief, lighthearted exchange about the correct term for people from the Netherlands (“Nederlands” in Dutch, “Dutch” in English).

Memorable Quote:
"I always abided by the old, you know, Austin Powers line that there are only two things in the world I can't stand, people who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch... But maybe that's not true." — Tim Miller [00:32]

2. Who is Rob Jetten? ([00:33]–[01:34])

• Rob Jetten’s background: openly gay, married to an Argentine field hockey player, charismatic, and young.
• Jetten’s political style described as "abundance liberalism": big on positivity, growth, and patriotism.
• Noted for running on a platform that is economically left-leaning but inclusive—a “big tent.”

Notable Moment:
Tim jokes about Jetten’s appeal, both in terms of policy and looks, showing him on screen.
"He's a gay man. All the good things are gay." — Tim Miller [00:52]

3. The State of the Dutch Far Right & Party Realignment ([01:34]–[03:28])

• Stan explains the decline of Geert Wilders' party (long-serving, nationalist, anti-immigration), which lost a third of its seats—good news, but with caveats.
• Wilders’ lost seats went to other right-wing, more "respectable" or conspiratorial parties, meaning the far-right's overall strength remains.

Quote:
"The far right as a whole I think has maintained its place in Dutch politics, which is not good." — Stan Veuger [03:22]

4. Fragmentation & Lessons for the US ([03:28]–[04:24])

• Observations on how proportional representation in the Netherlands allows the right to splinter into multiple parties, unlike the US.
• Tim explores if "wedging" the right is possible in the US, paralleling the fragmentation seen in the Netherlands.

Quote:
"There's a way to get Fuentes and Mike Pence and the major body of MAGA and kind of cleave them off from each other to weaken the political powers of the right." — Tim Miller [03:55]

5. The (Weak) Dutch Left & Rise of the Center ([04:24]–[06:06])

• Left-wing parties (Green Left and Labor) tried to merge but lost ground; total seats for the left diminished.
• The center has resurged, not the left.
• Entertaining mention of quirky Dutch parties like "Party for the Animals" and its offshoots.

Memorable Moment:
"Even if you add up all the different Judean Popular Front parties, it still adds up to very little." — Stan Veuger [05:19]

6. Jetten's Platform: Patriotism, Economics, Positivity ([06:06]–[08:29])

• Jetten/D66's "progressive patriotism": proud to be Dutch, waving flags, but upbeat and optimistic.
• Co-opted some economic policies from the left: millionaires tax, progressive inheritance/gift tax, phasing out mortgage interest deduction.
• Strategic embrace of redistributive policy, but without "de-growth" or anti-capitalism rhetoric.

Quote:
"More important than that was really the upbeat tone, positivism, you know, the Dutch flags everywhere... a little more of a cosmopolitan nationalism you might call it." — Stan Veuger [07:56]

7. On Election Messaging in Politics ([08:29]–[10:37])

• Comparison between Dutch and US politics; Tim references NYC Mayor-elect Zoram Mandani for similar positive affect.
• Stan notes tactical campaign moves can have bigger, quicker effects in the Netherlands due to multi-party system and proportional representation.

Quote:
"Can I be a positive person that's focused on economic opportunity and the things that people are worried about and do it from a more center position." — Tim Miller [10:26]

8. Immigration: Navigating a National Flashpoint ([11:04]–[13:00])

• Immigration policy was central; Jetten/D66 adopted a more restrictionist stance than previously.
• Other center-left and even far-left parties adopted measurable targets for migration/asylum—reflective of public opinion.
• Wilders' previous government failed to achieve much on immigration, which hurt him.

Insight:
Stan remarks that all parties moved closer to public opinion on immigration, setting numerical targets and toning down former elite disconnect.
"One issue where... the sort of elite in the Netherlands had gotten out of line with the voting public." — Stan Veuger [12:20]

9. Generational Change & Closing Reflections ([13:07]–[14:51])

• Dutch government (like much of the West) now run by "elder millennials" (~40-year-olds).
• Tim jokes about the unique resilience and adaptability of his generation.
• Light jab at the generational and technological divides in politics.

Memorable Quote:
"As long as you put gay elder millennials in charge of your country, things might be looking up." — Tim Miller [13:47]

10. Outro and Final Comments ([14:51]–[15:01])

• Stan briefly notes Syrian refugee inflows are down, which will help Jetten’s party manage migration pressures.
• Playful farewell with Tim reminiscing about Amsterdam's bike chaos and beauty.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "He's a gay man. All the good things are gay." — Tim Miller [00:52]
• "The far right as a whole I think has maintained its place in Dutch politics, which is not good." — Stan Veuger [03:22]
• "There's a way to get Fuentes and Mike Pence and the major body of MAGA and kind of cleave them off from each other to weaken the political powers of the right." — Tim Miller [03:55]
• "Even if you add up all the different Judean Popular Front parties, it still adds up to very little." — Stan Veuger [05:19]
• "More important than that was really the upbeat tone, positivism, you know, the Dutch flags everywhere... a little more of a cosmopolitan nationalism you might call it." — Stan Veuger [07:56]
• "Can I be a positive person that's focused on economic opportunity... from a more center position." — Tim Miller [10:26]
• "One issue where... the sort of elite in the Netherlands had gotten out of line with the voting public." — Stan Veuger [12:20]
• "As long as you put gay elder millennials in charge of your country, things might be looking up." — Tim Miller [13:47]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00]–[00:32]: Dutch nomenclature, Tim’s opening
• [00:33]–[01:34]: Who is Rob Jetten?
• [01:34]–[03:28]: Wilders and the far-right’s realignment
• [03:28]–[04:24]: US/Netherlands electoral system comparison
• [04:24]–[06:06]: State of the Dutch left, quirky parties
• [06:06]–[08:29]: Jetten’s centrist-left agenda and style
• [08:29]–[10:37]: Politics as affect versus policy, US parallels
• [11:04]–[13:00]: Immigration: policy and political tactics
• [13:07]–[14:51]: Elder millennials in power, reflections
• [14:51]–[15:01]: Migration wrap-up, farewell

Conclusion

Tim Miller and Stan Veuger deliver an engaging, witty look at the Dutch political shift. The episode makes the case that election outcomes are shaped by policy and presentation: Jetten’s extraordinary rise was possible thanks to optimism and centrist patriotism as much as left-leaning economics. The Dutch far right’s fragmentation, the center’s resurgence, and tactical migration policy shifts all hold lessons for US politics, especially for centrists searching for a new playbook.

Listeners come away with an understanding of the unique Dutch political landscape, the importance of tone and coalition-building, and how generational change is shaping leadership on both sides of the Atlantic.