Bulwark Takes Podcast: "Tim is Totally Starstruck: It's Cussin' Katie Couric!"

Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Tim Miller (The Bulwark)
Guest: Katie Couric

Episode Overview

This episode features a lively, candid, and unfiltered conversation between Tim Miller and legendary journalist Katie Couric. In the wake of the rapidly shifting news cycle, the duo tackles the fallout from the controversial suspension of Jimmy Kimmel, corporate and government threats to free speech, political intimidation, media consolidation, and ongoing redistricting battles. The discussion is loaded with sharp insights, cussing, and mutual frustration about the trajectory of American media and democracy, peppered with humor and memorable asides.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jimmy Kimmel Suspension & Media Intimidation

Timestamps: [01:58] – [10:28]

• The Kimmel Controversy:
  Tim and Katie react to the regulatory threats that resulted in Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension from late night TV. The pressure originated from FCC commissioner Brendan Carr and was amplified by MAGA media personalities.

  • Tim frames the debacle as “a mob shakedown”:

    “This is a free speech story for sure… but it’s like a lot of the other Trump stuff. It’s a straight corruption story. And this is a mob shakedown, right?” [03:44] (Tim)

  • Katie finds Disney CEO Bob Iger's compliance “shocking and infuriating,” expressing concern for chilling effects across the industry.

• Government Overreach & Free Speech:
  Both discuss longstanding patterns of Trump and allies using the threat of regulatory action to intimidate critics, referencing Trump’s public musings about stripping broadcast licenses from uncooperative media outlets.

  • Katie quotes Trump after Air Force One landing:

    “They’re 97% against me. I mean, they’re getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away.” [06:29] (quoted by Katie)

• Republican Silence:
  Tim doubts that GOP politicians will break ranks to defend free speech in this context, citing their reluctance to cross Trump on signature issues.

  “They’re not going to get on the other side of him now. I think we’ll see kind of non-politicians… But from the politicians, no, I think they’ve signed up for this.” [05:38] (Tim)

• Call for Corporate Backbone:
  Tim and Katie lament media executives’ lack of resistance, arguing that major players like Bob Iger should “call his bluff” and force the administration’s hand—believing most viewers would not support losing beloved programming over political vendettas.

2. Media Consolidation, Sinclair, and Local News Takeovers

Timestamps: [13:35] – [17:55]

• Sinclair’s Influence:
  Katie reveals Sinclair owns or operates 185 TV stations, shifting national news coverage to the right and turning local stations into “propaganda tools for far right political figures.”

  “I think you have reason, we all have reason to be concerned about sort of how many of these news stations are turning into basically propaganda tools for far right political figures, including Donald Trump.” [15:50] (Katie)

• Chilling Effect on Streamers:
  Both express concerns that streaming platforms are increasingly hesitant to host any political content critical of Trump, not just for partisan reasons but to avoid corporate risk.

3. Cancel Culture vs. State-Sponsored Retaliation

Timestamps: [17:55] – [20:55]

• Obama's Critique:
  Katie reads Obama’s blistering statement on X condemning the administration for surpassing “cancel culture” and threatening regulatory action against unfavorable media.

  "After years of complaining about cancel culture, the current administration has taken it to a new and dangerous level..." [17:55] (quoted by Katie)

• False Equivalence Warning:
  Tim distinguishes between social media-driven cancel culture and government-driven censorship/control, emphasizing the latter’s far greater threat.

  “This is not that… The issue here, the story here is that the government is pressuring companies to fire him and to stifle his speech in order for them to be able to get something out of the government.” [18:31] (Tim)

4. Vice Presidential Conspiracy-Mongering & Double Standards

Timestamps: [24:28] – [26:56]

• Official Conspiracy Theories:
  Tim draws attention to the Vice President’s baseless public suggestion that unnamed networks “motivated, inspired, and maybe even funded Charlie Kirk’s murder,” lamenting how outrageous claims by top officials now go largely unchallenged.

  “The Vice President would spread a conspiracy theory like that, and nobody even talks about it because we’re so used to their conspiracy theories… You could not imagine that in the past.” [25:24] (Tim)

• Kimmel’s Actual Comment:
  Katie clarifies the Kimmel quote at the heart of the controversy [26:56], emphasizing he was pointing out partisan exploitation, not peddling misinformation about the shooter.

5. What’s Next for Kimmel and Network Comedy?

Timestamps: [28:39] – [29:53]

• ABC’s Dilemma:
  Tim doubts the likelihood of Kimmel returning to network TV given pressure from affiliates:

  “ABC’s pressure now is going to come from… even if they put him back on, wouldn’t those NextStar stations put them on now?... If you’re Jimmy, what would you do?” [28:39] (Tim)

• Alternative Distribution:
  Katie shares media writer Bill Carter’s proposal to air Kimmel on streaming platforms (Hulu, Disney+) while threatening affiliates with loss of NFL rights—though both are skeptical Bob Iger would take such an aggressive stance.

6. Epstein Files—Transparency & Accountability

Timestamps: [30:50] – [32:51]

• Calls for Release:
  Tim and Katie briefly shift to public frustration over the lack of progress on Epstein-related investigations and files. Tim labels government responses as preposterous and expects more to emerge only if Democrats regain House control.

7. Redistricting Battles, Gerrymandering & 2026 Midterms

Timestamps: [32:51] – [35:54]

• State-Level Power Plays:
  Tim gives a rapid-fire overview of redistricting fights across California, Indiana, Missouri, Florida, Ohio, and more.

  • He predicts Republicans will net four or five more favorable seats due to gerrymandering.

    “My guess is… what we’ll have is less fair maps. The Republicans will probably have four or five seats more that are favorable to them than they would have before this fight.” [34:15] (Tim)

• Midterm Outlook:
  Both agree the next midterm looks fraught, with Tim suggesting Democrats will be highly motivated to turn out but pessimistic about a net improvement in fairness:

  “If you want to be sad, if you want to be depressing about it, then, yeah, you can summarize it. I think it’s going to work. It might not work as well as they had hoped, but it’s going to work.” [35:54] (Tim)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I just, I still kind of pinch myself sometimes in talking to Katie. And she's cussing Katie now—it's not Today's Show Katie.” [00:58] (Tim)
• “It’s shocking and infuriating, actually.” [02:33] (Katie, on the Kimmel suspension)
• “This is a mob shakedown, right?” [03:44] (Tim)
• “Free speech is fine as long as it doesn’t criticize me. Right?” [11:35] (Katie, on Trump)
• “Sinclair owns or operates 185 TV stations in 86 markets... the shift to the right.” [15:50] (Katie)
• “There was no real threat from this government on Jimmy Kimmel... and all these guys folded in six hours. And it’s truly embarrassing and shameful.” [23:18] (Tim)
• “It’s been a weird week, Katie. I don’t know. And on a long list of weird, strange, screwed up weeks…” [30:18] (Tim)
• “If you want to be sad... I think it’s going to work.” [35:54] (Tim)

Additional Highlights

• Cussing Grandma Katie:
  The running joke of Katie Couric’s evolution into “cussin’ grandma Katie,” marking a feisty, no-holds-barred tone.
• Media Industry Nuances:
  Insightful asides about Sinclair’s historical influence, the chilling impact on both traditional and streaming media, and the hollowing-out of local, objective news.
• Humor and Candor:
  Several moments reveal the mutual respect and irreverent humor between Tim and Katie, keeping the conversation punchy even as they express deep alarm about American democracy and free speech.

For Listeners

This episode is essential for anyone following the intersection of media, politics, and free speech in America, delivering both rage and wit in response to deeply worrying trends in 2025. Hear how two media veterans process the news, lament institutional weaknesses, warn about the encroaching dangers to democracy—and yet still manage to make each other laugh.