Tim Miller Causes MAGA Nut To Have A Full On Breakdown

Summary

Podcast Summary: Bulwark Takes – "Tim Miller Causes MAGA Nut To Have A Full On Breakdown"

Release Date: April 29, 2025

Overview

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller engages in a heated discussion on The Piers Morgan Show with a self-identified MAGA supporter named Vinnie. The conversation delves into contentious issues such as immigration policies, media bias, and the debate over transgender athletes in sports. The episode features contributions from panelists Kat Abou and Elizabeth Pipko, providing diverse perspectives on these polarizing topics.

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1. Engagement with MAGA Supporter Vinnie

Tim Miller begins by recounting his semi-monthly appearance on The Piers Morgan Show, where he interacts with individuals from the MAGA community. In this episode, he discusses his debate with a caller named Vinnie, who displays anxiety over current political climates and struggles to defend former President Trump.

Tim Miller [00:00]:
"It's tough to defend Trump these days. It's really tough."

Tim criticizes the limited topics MAGA supporters focus on, such as trans sports and President Biden's administration, arguing that these subjects lack substantial debate compared to other pressing issues.

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2. Immigration and Border Policies

A significant portion of the discussion centers on immigration policies and border control. Tim challenges the notion that the Trump administration deserves credit for border management, asserting that the administration's efforts were insufficient.

Tim Miller [00:00]:
"I do not hand credit to him on the border, actually, for a variety of reasons."

Elizabeth Pipko reinforces the argument against current border policies, highlighting the inhumane treatment of migrants and the flawed asylum process.

Elizabeth Pipko [06:36]:
"The way that this administration is treating them is inhumane."

Kat Abou counters by differentiating between deportable individuals and genuine asylum seekers, emphasizing the complexity of immigration enforcement.

Kat Abou [08:18]:
"There is an issue about whether they should be put in prisons in El Salvador. That's not to do with what's happened on the southern border."

Vinay Ashana passionately defends stringent immigration measures, linking illegal immigration to domestic threats and economic struggles.

Vinay Ashana [07:23]:
"Trump is treating them all the same. I mean he just deported a 2-year-old US citizen back to Honduras who is being treated for cancer."

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3. Media Bias and Mainstream Media Critique

The panelists explore the theme of media bias, with Tim and Piers expressing skepticism towards both mainstream and right-wing media outlets.

Tim Miller [00:00]:
"The mainstream media is biased and unfair."

Piers Morgan criticizes right-wing media for overstating threats posed by the Trump administration, suggesting that their coverage may be more detrimental than that of mainstream outlets.

Piers Morgan [05:10]:
"The coverage on Fox and on other right-wing media outlets is, if anything, worse than the mainstream media's coverage of Democrats."

This segment underscores the pervasive distrust in media impartiality, highlighting the challenges in achieving balanced reporting.

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4. Transgender Athletes in Sports

A heated debate unfolds around the participation of transgender women in women's sports. Kat Abou and Elizabeth Pipko argue against the inclusion of trans women, citing fairness and safety concerns.

Kat Abou [12:45]:
"I think it's bullshit that you would let your leaders go out and propagate such bullshit."

Vinay Ashana supports strict regulations, emphasizing the negative impact on women’s sports and scholarships.

Vinay Ashana [14:25]:
"Men should play with men, women should play with women. And if you don't think it's affecting women, go ask all these girls that are losing scholarships."

Conversely, Elizabeth Pipko acknowledges that the number of trans athletes is minimal and argues that their participation doesn't significantly impact women's sports.

Elizabeth Pipko [12:51]:
"Trans people's existence and even like the 40 people that are in sports, isn't the big issue with women's rights."

Tim Miller criticizes the superficial commitment of some on the right to women's and human rights, contrasting it with their stance on other issues like immigration.

Tim Miller [16:35]:
"You don't care if we wrongly sent one person to a concentration camp in El Salvador."

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5. Moral and Ethical Implications

Throughout the episode, Tim Miller emphasizes the moral contradictions he perceives in the positions held by MAGA supporters, particularly regarding human rights and fairness.

Tim Miller [00:00]:
"We cannot possibly tolerate that [trans women in sports]. And then at the same time... shows you the moral bankruptcy of these guys."

The discussion also touches upon the ethical implications of deportation policies and the treatment of migrants, highlighting the broader debate on America's identity and values.

Piers Morgan [16:01]:
"We are a shining city on a hill... everyone, except for the Native Americans, came here because they were looking for opportunity."

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6. Conclusion and Final Remarks

As the conversation draws to a close, Kat Abou and Piers Morgan reiterate their positions on immigration and transgender issues, calling for more humane and logical policies.

Kat Abou [17:55]:
"I think it is wrong to deport people to prisons in El Salvador without proper evidence."

Tim Miller and Vinay Ashana maintain their stances, showcasing the entrenched divisions in current political discourse.

Vinay Ashana [16:35]:
"Get the fuck out of my country. Period."

The episode concludes with a call for listeners to engage critically with these issues, recognizing the deep-seated ideological rifts in American society.

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Miller [00:00]:
  "It's tough to defend Trump these days. It's really tough."

• Elizabeth Pipko [06:36]:
  "The way that this administration is treating them is inhumane."

• Vinay Ashana [07:23]:
  "Trump is treating them all the same. I mean he just deported a 2-year-old US citizen back to Honduras who is being treated for cancer."

• Kat Abou [12:45]:
  "I think it's bullshit that you would let your leaders go out and propagate such bullshit."

• Vinay Ashana [14:25]:
  "Men should play with men, women should play with women. And if you don't think it's affecting women, go ask all these girls that are losing scholarships."

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Conclusion

This episode of Bulwark Takes presents a robust debate on some of the most divisive issues in contemporary American politics. Through passionate exchanges, the panelists explore the complexities of immigration, media bias, and transgender rights in sports, reflecting the broader societal tensions and the challenges of finding common ground in a polarized environment.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

Hey, everybody, this is Tim Miller from the Bulwark. I made my, you know, semi monthly appearance over on the Piers Morgan show to engage with the dregs of MAGA society on the topics of the day. Today I got this guy Vinnie didn't know a lot about. Vinnie was pretty worried he's going to have a heart attack. He was really stroking out. It's tough to defend Trump these days. It's really tough. You know, this show, we're not going to make you watch the whole 30 minutes, but this show, these guys are still focused on trans sports and Biden's decline because, like, those are the things I think they can argue. It's not very much. It's a lot harder to argue about what's happening so far in the Trump administration. So I get into it with them on a couple of issues, particularly immigration. Pierce tried to get me to credit Trump about the border. I did not. I hope you'll listen to my argument on that because I think that's something we're going to be hearing a lot from, that you got to hand them credit on the border. And I don't think you do have to hand it to him on the border, actually, for a variety of reasons, which I'll get into in a second. But lastly, you know, this conversation devolves into the conversation about transports because people's genitals is the only thing these guys want to talk about. But I got cut off at the end. But I wanted to kind of extend my remarks about how this, like just the moral vacuousness of the people on the right who want to tell you that if there's one trans woman in a high school swim meet, that is an unacceptable abridgment of women's rights. We cannot possibly tolerate that. And then at the same time, while people are being deported to a torture prison in El Salvador, they do not broach the possibility that if one of them was wrongly sent there, then that is an unacceptable abridgment of that human's rights and just shows you the moral bankruptcy of these guys, you know, that they, that they can, you know, look, if you, if you're Martina Navratilova, if you're a person who is it has a dedicated lifelong track record of fighting for women's rights. And you also disagree with, with the fact that trans women should be able to participate in a sport when you've competed in that sport at the highest level. I'll listen to you like, look, let's listen to these arguments. Let's hash these Arguments out.

[Piers Morgan]

I think that there's certain cases where that's true.

[Tim Miller]

There are certain cases, you know, where, like, I'm not going to care that much. My daughter's playing in a boys basketball league right now, right? Like she's seven. Like it's different for seven year olds.

[Piers Morgan]

Than it is for professionals.

[Tim Miller]

It's different in the Olympics than it is for a Frisbee golf tournament, which is a story that Fox was covering. You can hash these arguments out, but I will not listen to people tell me that they care about women's rights, that they care about human rights and that's why they care about this issue. If they then go on in the next breath to be like, well, whatever, you know, if a couple gang, if a couple people get accused of being gang bangers and have their entire life taken from them, then, you know, that's just a part of doing business. That's bs. It shows you that this is not genuine, that they don't actually care about women. They don't actually care about human rights. They care about their own political agenda. So anyway, that's where I was going before my cousin Vinny tried to stroke out there for some of the other highlights from the conversation. Because I know, I know you guys like it. I get complaints of people like, I.

[Piers Morgan]

Don'T want to see, I don't want.

[Tim Miller]

To have to watch. That speaks for themselves. Some people like it, some people like it. I think. You know, you know what I think this does is there are many of you out there that want to yell at the MAGA in your life, but you know, they're your dad or your uncle or your friend at work and that's really not a fruitful use of your time. So let this be the outlet for you.

[Kat Abou]

I'm joined by the PBD podcast Angry Patriot Vinay Ashana Tiktoker and Democratic congressional candidate Kat Abou, host of the Bull Walk podcast, Tim Miller and the conservative commentator and former RNC spokesperson Elizabeth Pipko. Well, welcome to all of you. Tim Miller, I saw you raising your eyebrow there, but there is a truth there because it was a bizarre spectacle of a liberal skewed mainstream media basically openly admitting we dropped the ball massively on that Biden's ability to be President of the United States. But many would argue, particularly on the left, I would think, well, it was entirely self defeating, this ball dropping, probably deliberate. You didn't give it the same attention you would have given it if it had been, say, Trump. And the consequence of not holding Biden to Proper account was that actually Donald Trump got reelected, which nobody would have expected. So there was a real time consequence to this ball dropping. Do you think though that the mainstream media have learned any lessons from this or not?

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I don't know. And I think this is the one area maybe where I can agree with you and the co panelists is I think that this dinner is pretty stupid. I think the last thing that we need is a self congratulatory ball for political journalists. You couldn't have paid me to go this weekend. I was at Jazz Fest instead. And so I agree that it's kind of silly. I do though bristle a little bit. Like I'm not speaking about you peers per se, but at right wing commentators talking about how they think that the mainstream media is biased and unfair. And you know when, if you go to Fox or Steve Bannon's podcast or the Daily Wire, I mean you see like North Korea esque coverage of what's happening with the President of the United States as he's single handedly tanking our economy for no good reason, just because he likes the word tariffs. I guess he inherited an economy that was getting better, that was improving, that wasn't perfect, but that was on the right path. And in three months he has put us on the brink of recession. And so I think that the coverage on Fox and on other right wing media outlets is if anything worse than than the mainstream media's coverage of Democrats, which is not perfect by any means. And so, you know, I just don't know if the right wing media folks have a lot of great credibility when it comes to demanding unbiased coverage.

[Kat Abou]

The reportedly 10 million people who came over the southern border in the Biden administration, you think they're all genuine asylum seekers?

[Elizabeth Pipko]

I think that we don't have a good enough asylum process and there are plenty that are claiming asylum. And it doesn't matter whether someone is claiming asylum or not. Trump is treating them all the same. I mean he just deported a 2 year old US citizen back to Honduras who is being treated for cancer. And that's the problem here is when it comes to our border issues we are focusing on, it's just, it's treated so broadly and so angrily, so hatefully. And there's no difference between these people. The way that this administration is treating them is inhumane.

[Kat Abou]

Okay, Tim, you wanted to jump in there. Hang on, Vinny, hang on.

[Piers Morgan]

Go ahead, Vinny, I'll follow up. Vinny.

[Vinay Ashana]

Yeah, Tim. And I appreciate you bro. Thank you, thank you. And I appreciate It. First of all, that two year old was here with an illegal alien mother. And if the mother gets deported, Piers, the kids go with the mother. So stop rhetoric. She's a two year old being concentrated. Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. I'll let you speak. Please let me finish. Okay. And you're talking about. When you're talking about. First of all, let me back up. Americans can't afford $1,000 and they're struggling. That's because of the last administration. Trump just got here. That's number one. And are you truly, genuinely talking about illegal. You're talking about illegal immigrants, illegals that are here that are in freaking gangs, that to join the gang, they have to kill people that sell drugs, that beat the shit out of his wife. We get rid of him. Is that who you're sticking up for? Are you honestly gonna sit here and say Trump is just doing abroad any illegal. No, it's going after the illegals.

[Kat Abou]

All right.

[Vinay Ashana]

And you mentioned veterans. I'm a United States Air Force veteran. When I joined, I swore an oath to the Constitution to protect this country of enemies, foreign and domestic. And I never knew, Piers, who was the domestic. You know what the domestic is? It's the people that flood this country with illegals. They don't give a shit about law. They weaponize the justice system, they try to kill our freaking president. And then when he tries to kick these people out, he's the mean one. I'm sorry, this is an argument that you are not gonna win. Okay? There's absolutely no. He's talking about illegal gang members and you're sticking up for MS.13 members. Have you ever encountered an MS.13 member? Have you ever spoken to one of them?

[Kat Abou]

Well, I think the problem there. The problem there. Hang on, hang on. I'm gonna come to. Tim. We are, we are conflating several different issues here because the issue of people being deported, many of whom are already on the deportation list and are convicted criminals, some of them for murder, rape, and so on. I don't think many Americans have any sympathy. I assume with those on a deportation list who've had the due process but haven't yet been deported. Now being deported, there is an issue about whether they should be put in prisons in El Salvador. I get that. But that's not to do with what's happened on the southern border. That that's a different issue altogether. So, Tim, let me ask you the same question. You wouldn't naturally race to praise Trump for anything, but can you find it in yourself to Say that what's happened on the southern border is a good thing.

[Piers Morgan]

I can't, and here's why. And I was happy to let my cousin Vinny over there go.

[Tim Miller]

I thought he was gonna explode.

[Piers Morgan]

He might've had a heart attack over there if we didn't give him a chance to talk.

[Vinay Ashana]

But I'm good.

[Piers Morgan]

Here's the thing, Piers. I believe that, you know, look, I used to be a Reagan Republican, all right? I believe that we are a shining city on a hill. I believe that we were a place where people should want to come if they're fleeing oppression. If we're talking about these Venezuelans in particular, they're in a communist country where they are being persecuted by a communist dictator. And I think that we should have an orderly process where people should be able to come from Venezuela to this country to be refugees like so many have before, like all of us have who came to countries, who came to America. That is what is unique about America, that's what makes America special, is that everyone, except for the Native Americans came here because they were looking for opportunity, because they were fleeing someplace else. And we created a system that was obviously totally out of control. And so bringing some control to that system is fine, but that doesn't mean zero people come in. I'm not happy about that. I want Venezuelans freeing communism. To be able to come here, we need to create a system where people can come here. And you're saying that these people were coming illegally? We actually know for sure that at least a couple of the Venezuelans that were sent to El Salvador came through the legal process. You might not like that process, but they used the CB1 app. They said that they were refugees fleeing oppression. They went to a third country. In one case, a guy went to Colombia, just like you're supposed to, and then he was brought to Florida. And that man has been sent to El Salvador. Maybe he's a trend to Aragua. We don't know because there wasn't a court hearing. I've talked a lot about the gay makeup artist, Andre. I'm sorry, Pierce, but. So, look, I want to hear you.

[Kat Abou]

I'm sorry.

[Piers Morgan]

I believe this is good to be zero.

[Kat Abou]

Tim. I agree.

[Piers Morgan]

We're America.

[Kat Abou]

Tim, I agree with you.

[Piers Morgan]

Not China.

[Kat Abou]

Listen, I don't disagree with you about the due process issue. Is that on the progressive left, you'll also have people at high levels of the party come out and say with a straight face, we think biological men should be in women's sport. And the moment most average Americans Hear that? They do what you just did. They roll their eyes and go, you lot are insane. And you're doing it for a different reason. You're doing it because you think I'm insane for saying that. But I can tell you, as somebody who's always been pretty liberal, I think that strategy was completely insane. The idea that you would let your leaders go out and propagate such bullshit, which most Americans with any vein of common sense, as you call it, know is bullshit, that then allows exactly what happened, the Republicans to run with that and say, look at these people, they're nuts.

[Elizabeth Pipko]

Yeah, I mean, I do think the Democratic Party has a messaging issue, but I think this is less about the Democratic Party and more about right wing media, which I watch and analyze for a living. Or at least before I started running for Congress, there's been plenty of research talking about when people transition, how it doesn't really impact their effects in sports. This is a very, very, very tiny percentage.

[Kat Abou]

No, no, it's complete bullshit. Sorry. I'm sorry. By the way, I'm not right wing media in any shape or form.

[Elizabeth Pipko]

I'm not saying you are.

[Kat Abou]

I know, but I'm just telling you I'm not. And I think it's bullshit.

[Elizabeth Pipko]

Okay. This is the thing. Trans people's existence and Even like the 40 people that are in sports, isn't the big issue with women's rights. It isn't a women's rights issue, but.

[Kat Abou]

It becomes one when you support obvious unfairness. That's the point.

[Elizabeth Pipko]

Can I please finish?

[Kat Abou]

Sure.

[Elizabeth Pipko]

Thank you. The thing here is you have Republicans right now in the state at the federal level that are saying we need to check children's genitals to make sure that the right ones before they play. That's a harm to children and women. The SAVE act, which is going to stop millions of married women from being able to vote if they don't have their birth certificate and proof of their name change.

[Vinay Ashana]

They.

[Elizabeth Pipko]

That's an actual harm to women. Trans people existing and in like one state that did a law against trans kids being in sports, there was literally one trans child that was in any sport who was supported by their own team. This is lawmakers at the state level, people that are being paid, that are full ass adults that are bullying children.

[Kat Abou]

So just to be clear. Okay, so just to be clear, you would, you would personally like it to continue, you think it's perfectly okay for biological men to compete in women's sport? Is that your position? Yes. Okay.

[Elizabeth Pipko]

I don't mind trans women being in sports.

[Kat Abou]

Okay, then this is the problem then. Kat, with respect to you, and I beat them. Kat, with great respect to you, I'm very glad you're not running this issue in America because it is grotesquely unfair to women. Vinny, final word to you, then I'll come to Tim for his final word.

[Vinay Ashana]

Well, she just said it like you're spitting out these numbers. If one man tries to take away a scholarship from a female that's anti woman. And for you to sit there and act like it's not a freaking problem. It's happening more and more, like Pierce said, every single day. And that's the problem is this low number talk. If one. One girl is being affected and if there's men and women's bathrooms, you guys make it seem like this is just. We're just coming out of thin air. And that's the problem. Piers, with the Democratic party, you heard it here first. No vision, no plan. They're totally fine with a male with testicles beating the shit out of women, spiking volleyballs in their freaking face, sending them to the hospital. It's. No, no, no, no. It's unbelievable that I'm happy you're exposing yourself because he nailed it. This is why your party is going to keep losing over and over and over. Cause you guys are standing on issues that it's so common sense. Men should play with men, women should play with women. And if you don't think it's affecting women, go ask all these girls that are losing scholarships to men with freaking testicles that are beating the shit out of them in sports. Yeah, it's unbelievable that you think like that.

[Kat Abou]

Okay, Tim. I mean, I think. Tim, the wider part. I don't want to relitigate the whole trans thing, but I think the point is, as the Democrats try and find a new voice, a new way to compete, and a new way to win, I just feel they have to go down the Gavin Newsom route of abandoning. Just propagating all this progressive. Far less stuff. Otherwise they're just unelectable.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah. So just two thoughts on this. Just one really quick on the moral bankruptcy of Vinny's position. Look, I have a more nuanced view than Kat does on trans women in sports, but the idea that having one trans woman in a swimming meet is unacceptable. But I don't care if I wrongly sent. Okay, okay. But I don't care. But you don't care, apparently, if we wrongly sent one person to a concentration camp in El Salvador, if we. Wrong, you don't Care about deprivation. Care. You said you don't care about deprivation.

[Vinay Ashana]

Two different points. You're conflating two different points. Two different points. And you're using the word concentration camp. Tim, you're using the word concentration camp. So you're one of those people that's like, trump is Hitler again. Your dumb ass party has watered down the name Hitler. The name Hitler isn't even strong anymore. Because you know what? You compare it with Trump, people go, oh, if Trump is. If Hitler's like Trump, then he's not that bad. Stop saying that. Guys, that's stupid rhetoric. Concentration camp. You're an illegal gang member. Get the fuck out of my country. Period. You don't belong here. You have deportation orders. You're not supposed to be here.

[Kat Abou]

You beat your wife. Okay, listen. Unfortunately, we have to wrap it there. All I would say is, Tim, in relation to your point. Relation to your point, Tim, I actually think it is wrong to deport people to prisons in El Salvador without property present.

[Tim Miller]

Much more.

[Kat Abou]

Well, Vinny, I have not seen yet enough evidence for my liking that this guy was a member of that gang.

[Piers Morgan]

If there is. If there is.

[Kat Abou]

Hang on, hang on. If there is. If there is, put it out there. If there is, put it out there. And then I may change my mind. But until I see it, I'm afraid I'm not satisfied. And I also think this issue.

[Vinay Ashana]

You guys think that they're lying?

[Kat Abou]

Well, let's wait and see.

[Vinay Ashana]

Are they lying, Piers?

[Kat Abou]

Let's wait and see. But initially, just be. The administration initially said it was a mistake. Their words, not mine. Anyway, we gotta leave it there. Great panel. Thank you all very much. I greatly appreciate it. I'm gonna move on to other subjects.

[Piers Morgan]

Take a breath, Vinny.