Tim Miller: Cracks May Be Appearing in Trumpworld

Summary

Bulwark Takes: "Tim Miller: Cracks May Be Appearing in Trumpworld"

Date: October 14, 2025
Host: Tim Miller (with guest Jacob Soboroff)
Theme:
Examining growing fractures and discomfort within Trumpworld regarding recent immigration crackdowns, the “no Kings” protest movement, and the political ramifications for the upcoming midterm elections. The conversation highlights how aggressive actions against U.S. citizens and veterans are beginning to shake previously steadfast support on the right, and explores whether government intimidation and propaganda efforts are likely to backfire.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

1. Cracks in Trump Support Over Immigration Policies

• Tim Miller opens by discussing seeing signs of discomfort and disenchantment among active-duty military, veterans, and even right-leaning media personalities (e.g., Joe Rogan, Marjorie Taylor Greene) about the aggressive immigration crackdowns under the Trump administration.

• Growing unease: The treatment of U.S. citizens and veterans—people who are supposed to be the “in-group”—by government agents is starting to affect perceptions among Trump’s base.

  “I think that the focus on the US citizens, the veterans… I'm also hearing this just kind of behind the scenes from military, from veterans, but also active duty folks... an interesting amount of people that are feeling uncomfortable and discomfort with what the administration's doing and how they're being used.” — Tim Miller [01:32]

• Personal stories as inflection points: Miller references his interview with George Reddes—a U.S. citizen and veteran detained and mistreated during an immigration raid—as a powerful example that pierces the “unreality” for some supporters.

  “This guy… security guard outside the weed farm in California who was a US citizen, a veteran, and he gets targeted, tear gassed, racially targeted, jailed for three days... missed his daughter's birthday. She didn’t know where he was…” — Tim Miller [04:00]

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2. Labor Realities and Policy Directions

• Jacob Soboroff brings a practical, grounded perspective on the labor economy and immigration, arguing that simplistic mass deportations are unworkable and don’t acknowledge how much of the American economy relies on undocumented workers.

  • Calls for “smarter plans” over extremist rhetoric.

  “We have a labor force… built on illegal labor. That’s a fact… We have to do something about labor and that needs to be a smarter plan than just rounding up every single person and deporting them.” — Jacob Soboroff [02:17]

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3. The “No Kings” Protest Movement and Political Backlash

• Protest momentum: There’s a debate about whether labeling the “no Kings” protests as “antifa” or “un-American” will suppress or energize opposition.

• Historical irony: The protest slogan “No Kings” is, as Soboroff wryly observes, deeply American, and attempts to paint it as radical or anti-American come off as unconvincing.

  “My favorite thing about calling the no Kings protest anti America is it's literally the whole kernel of the idea about America was to not have a king... No Kings is the most American brand for any protest movement that America could ever have.” — Jacob Soboroff [06:40]

• Backfire effect: Tim Miller predicts that efforts to intimidate or smear protesters and suppress votes might actually amplify turnout and engagement:

  “A lot of times these efforts backfire. And we’re seeing that in the streets now… do you think that their efforts to smear the no Kings protesters as antifa… is going to make for smaller protests this week or bigger protests? I think bigger.” — Tim Miller [06:18]

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4. Election Ramifications and Optimism Amid Turbulence

• Optimism on voting rights: Tim Miller expresses guarded optimism, arguing that in many key midterm battlegrounds (notably in blue or swing states), local leaders won’t tolerate voter intimidation and that overreach might mobilize opposition.

• Greater worry about post-election chaos: While worried about potential post-election “stop the steal” maneuvers, he suggests that pre-election intimidation often provokes a backlash.

  “…in the lead up to the elections, if we're concerned about, you know, troops being outside voting locations… Gavin Newsom and Kathy Hochul and Governor Pritzker and others could try to counteract that… A lot of times these voter suppression efforts backfire and we’re seeing that in the streets now.” — Tim Miller [05:18]

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5. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Marjorie Taylor Greene’s “reality” quote:

  “The interesting thing about the Marjorie Taylor Greene quote… was her saying that she's going to live in reality… Welcome to reality talking. That's great. I love that. The water is warm here.” — Tim Miller [02:46]

• On the mainstreaming of “fantastical lies”:

  “What is being tested is sort of the laboratory for fantastical lies... The news value of Rogan and Greene isn't like, oh, look, it's too icky for them. No, because they went along with all of the BS ahead of the election.” — Jacob Soboroff [06:54]

• On the character of no Kings protests:

  “…I went to the no Kings protest in New Orleans in June… It is a lot of fanny packs and NPR tote bags at the crowd. It’s not even attached to reality on every level. It doesn’t work. It’s offensive and a lie. And again, maybe it works in their information silo, but eventually that stuff gets popped if it’s this fantastical and if people see the difference with their own eyes.” — Tim Miller [07:42]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:30] Tim Miller: Overview of recent TV appearance and summary of major topics—alluding to growing unrest and public discomfort over immigration policy and protester treatment.
• [02:17] Jacob Soboroff: Discusses labor market realities and the need for pragmatic immigration reform.
• [02:46] Tim Miller: Dissects Marjorie Taylor Greene’s “reality” comments and describes how real-life consequences are challenging Trumpist narratives.
• [05:13] Soboroff (to Miller): Invites optimism on election security and the prospects for protest backlashes.
• [05:18] Tim Miller: Explains why voting suppression efforts might backfire, with blue state election officials poised to respond.
• [06:40] Soboroff: Wry commentary on “No Kings” as quintessentially American; refutes government smears.
• [07:33] Tim Miller: Expounds on the real demographic makeup of protests and the eventual breaking of propaganda bubbles.

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Conclusion

This fast-paced and engaging episode of Bulwark Takes dives into how recent aggressive immigration enforcement and attempts to delegitimize protest movements are sparking unexpected pushback—even within Trump’s core constituencies. Tim Miller brings a note of optimism, positing that backlash to intimidation, both at the polls and in the streets, may empower opposition and reaffirm American democratic values. Jacob Soboroff’s on-the-ground realism complements Miller’s hopeful outlook, creating a clear-eyed, timely discussion about where the cracks in Trumpworld are beginning to show.

Transcript

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[Tim Miller]

Hey everybody. Tim Mo from the Bulwark here. I was on over on MSNBC with Nicole Wallace, Jacob Soboroff and Cornell Belcher. We did a lot of immigration talk, advanced a lot of the material that Jacob and I talked about last Friday on the podcast with the new information that's coming out over the weekend and then kind of got derailed unintentionally into this interesting conversation about upcoming elections and the upcoming no Kings protests and and whether the administration's efforts to stifle them or mess with them or fuck with them are going to work. You'll be surprised to find out I was on the optimistic side of that little dispute is the wrong word discussion back and forth between me and Cornell and Nicole in particular. And we also just got in a little bit more to this Joe Rogan MTG manosphere getting frustrated, getting some cracks forming when it comes to immigration. And I just, I gotta tell you, I think that the focus on the US citizens, the veterans, the George Reddis as Soborough brings up the the guy that was gardening outside of the IHOP who had three sons that were veterans and Jacob I think astutely mentions that I you're seeing and I'm also hearing this just kind of behind the scenes like from military, from veterans, but also active duty folks. Not everybody of course, but an interesting amount of people that are feeling uncomfortable and discomfort with what the administration's doing and how they're being used. So much to discuss on all those points. Stick around, subscribe to our feed here and we'll be talking to you soon.

[Jacob Soboroff]

We have a labor force in America across many industries that has been built on illegal labor. That's a fact that also cannot be ignored. And as a conservative and as a business owner in the construction industry and as a realist, I can say we have to do something about labor and that needs to be a smarter plan than just rounding up every single person and deporting them just like that. Tim Miller, let me bring you in on this. Your thoughts.

[Tim Miller]

The interesting thing about the Marjorie Taylor Greene quote, I thought was her saying that she's going to live in reality, something to that effect. I, going forward, I'm going to be in reality. This was her, you know, effort moment. Oh, boy. So welcome to reality talking. That's great. I love that the water is warm here. Yeah, yeah, the water is warm here in reality. And so that part, that is the funny part. And it's like, okay, well, great, that's a good place to start. But there is like this kernel of truth there about where the pushback can come from, particularly on this issue when it comes to immigration, is that the other people have new people have to live in reality that haven't been before. Right. And I think this is true to the Rogan point. This is true to folks that are watching other networks at this time. What has to happen is that what Trump is doing has to be bad enough that people's unreality is pierced. Right. And that was, to your point, about how that happened after Liberation Day. It was starting to happen for a little bit on the tariffs before he tacoed. And you can sense that it is starting to happen here. And it sucks that we're here, that that has to be our situation. But if all of us can do our job and Jacob, obviously at the front lines on the ground can do a job of showing people the videos of this, of what is happening and having people see firsthand the way regular people are being menaced, the way, you know, old ladies going to get meat for a stew are getting menaced, the way that US Citizens are being menaced. You know, I interviewed George Reddes for the board podcast last week. This guy that was the security guard outside the weed farm in California who was a US citizen, a veteran, and he gets target, he gets tear gassed, racially targeted, jailed for three days, two days in, in isolation, or he said he was naked and the lights were on and he's in solitary confinement for two days without access to a lawy, without access to a family. His, his, he missed his daughter's birthday. She didn't know where he was. Like those stories, the examples of US citizens, of veterans getting menaced, of people trying to live their lives, having it be disrupted by, you know, these massed agents. There is a new batch of people that can be God on that, that are not for that as long as they are made aware that it hap that it's happened. Right. And, and like that, that is the challenging part.

[Jacob Soboroff]

Tim is the optimist here on the election front. Set US straight.

[Tim Miller]

Well, for starters, a lot of these midterm elections, the key races in the House races, are going to happen in blue states, in places where people like Gavin Newsom are the governor. And so, you know, who knows what the. We could all catastrophize together. But in the lead up to the elections, if we're concerned about, you know, troops being outside voting locations, Trump's. Trump's forces trying to intimidate folks outside of voting locations, Gavin Newsom and Kathy Hochul and Governor Pritzker and others could try to counteract that in various ways. I hope we don't end up in that situation, but that's possible. And a lot of these House races are going to be in blue states or in swing states. So look, I think that's part of it. And I think that a lot of times these efforts do backfire. And this is not to be scared about anything. I talked to Mark Elias and you have. I'm actually kind of more scared about the post election, like whether they try to do stop the steal again and fake seat people. But a lot of times these voter suppression efforts backfire and we're seeing that in the streets now. Like their efforts. I mean, do you think that their efforts to smear the no Kings protesters as antifa and un American and terrorists and all that, do you think that's going to make for smaller protests this week or bigger protests? I think bigger. And so a lot of times these efforts backfire. And I do think that you might see that both in the voting suppression and in the protest space. What's being the optimist?

[Jacob Soboroff]

No, no, no, I love it. I love it. This is, this is your job until further notice. But my favorite thing about calling the no Kings protest anti America is it's literally the whole kernel of the idea about America was to not have a king. So like, if that's become no Kings, like, I, you know, I'm out. What, you know, what are we doing here? And I think what is being tested is sort of the laboratory for fantastical lies. And to me, like, the news value of Rogan and Greene isn't like, oh, look, it's too icky for them. No, because they went along with all of the BS ahead of the election. But the. Once you start talking on a podcast, it is infinitely more difficult not to swear when you're having normal conversations. But the whole fantastical nature of no Kings is somehow antifa. No Kings is the most American brand for any protest movement that America could ever have.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, well, and I mean, this is them always with the projecting, but it's what they're doing is anti American. There's nothing more. In addition to the kernel of the idea of no Kings being an American idea, the idea of being able to protest and speak out peacefully in March and say that what your government is doing is wrong is a fundamentally American principle. And then on top of that, if you just want to layer into it I went to the no Kings protest in New Orleans in June and it wasn't antifa type crowd. It is a lot of fanny packs and NPR tote bags at the crowd. It's not even attached to reality on every level. It doesn't work. It's offensive and a lie. And again, maybe it works in their information silo, but eventually, eventually that stuff gets popped if it's this fantastical and if people see the difference with their own eyes.

[Dutch Representative]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24? 7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day. Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.