Tim Miller: Elon Drags Trump Down; Cory Booker Lifts Us Up

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Tim Miller on Elon Drags Trump Down; Cory Booker Lifts Us Up

Release Date: April 2, 2025
Host/Author: The Bulwark
Episode: Tim Miller: Elon Drags Trump Down; Cory Booker Lifts Us Up

---

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller delves into the intricate dynamics of current American politics, focusing on two prominent figures: Elon Musk and Cory Booker. Joined by co-hosts John Heilman and Nicole Wallace, Miller provides a comprehensive analysis of recent events, including Cory Booker’s impactful speech and the controversial nomination of Pete Hegseth as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Cory Booker's Influential Speech

The episode opens with Tim Miller highlighting the significance of Cory Booker’s recent speech. He emphasizes the speech's potential impact, regardless of its immediate political repercussions. Miller asserts, “sometimes there are things that we are called to that are higher and greater than rank political gamesmanship” (00:00). This underscores the importance of principled leadership over mere political maneuvering.

Nicole Wallace expands on the grassroots response to political actions, contrasting organic movements with what she terms “grassroots, inorganic.” She reflects on the public’s reaction to economic policies and tariffs, noting a widespread feeling of deception among voters about the roles played by influential figures like Elon Musk. Wallace states, “People are showing up at town halls. It is anger about the economy... the pigheadedness about tariffs” (04:28). This sentiment reflects a broader disillusionment with political promises and their real-world implications.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Nomination: The Hegseth Controversy

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the nomination of Pete Hegseth. Miller criticizes Hegseth’s handling of sensitive information, particularly regarding a text message controversy known as “Signal Gate.” Referencing an opinion piece from The New York Times, Wallace highlights the nominee’s alleged lack of discretion: “Providing minutiae on an air attack to the most senior officials... is as unnecessary as it is reckless” (01:03).

Tim Miller and Nicole Wallace further dissect Hegseth’s suitability for the role. Miller quotes General Dan Kaine’s testimony, which underscores the inappropriateness of Hegseth’s actions: “no, this was totally inappropriate” (02:39). They express concerns that Hegseth’s behavior not only jeopardizes security but also reflects poorly on the administration’s judgment in military appointments.

Elon Musk’s Political Influence and the MAGA Base

Transitioning to the influence of Elon Musk, Tim Miller discusses how Musk’s actions are stirring opposition against the current administration, contrasting sharply with Donald Trump’s ability to galvanize his base. Miller observes, “Elon Musk is... motivating opposition to this administration, motivating people to turn out” (05:19). This marks a notable shift from Trump’s strategy, which historically mobilized conservative voters through direct appeals and media presence.

Nicole Wallace further elaborates on the grassroots movements, emphasizing the organic and inorganic elements shaping current political landscapes. She critiques the efficacy of tariffs as a negotiating tactic, arguing that the public perception has shifted from strategic negotiation to widespread frustration over increased consumer prices: “Tariffs as a negotiating... some of his own voters think... it would make... every product... more expensive” (04:28).

Tim Miller’s Strategic Insights and Democratic Approaches

Tim Miller shares his strategic perspectives on Democratic campaigning, particularly in the context of the first 71 days of Donald Trump’s administration. He encourages Democrats to “try stuff, show emotion” as a way to spark engagement and voter turnout, acknowledging the unpredictability of political outcomes: “We are very bad at predicting the future... you don't know what will resonate long term” (07:39). Miller advocates for passionate and authentic expressions of concern to counterbalance the administration’s perceived failures in governance.

Notable Quotes

• Tim Miller (00:00): “Sometimes there are things that we are called to that are higher and greater than rank political gamesmanship.”
• Nicole Wallace (01:03): “Providing minutiae on an air attack to the most senior officials... is as unnecessary as it is reckless.”
• Tim Miller (02:39): “No, this was totally inappropriate.”
• Nicole Wallace (04:28): “People are showing up at town halls. It is anger about the economy... the pigheadedness about tariffs.”
• Tim Miller (05:19): “Elon Musk is... motivating opposition to this administration, motivating people to turn out.”
• Tim Miller (07:39): “We are very bad at predicting the future... you don't know what will resonate long term.”

Conclusions and Insights

The episode concludes with a reflection on the evolving political landscape, highlighting the challenges and opportunities facing both Democratic strategists and the broader electorate. Tim Miller’s emphasis on emotional engagement and authentic leadership contrasts with concerns over military appointments and grassroots movements influenced by figures like Elon Musk. The discussions underscore a pivotal moment in politics, where strategic communication and genuine concern may be key to galvanizing voter support and addressing the nation’s pressing issues.

---

Subscribe to Bulwark Takes to stay informed with bite-sized analyses from Tim Miller, Sarah Longwell, Bill Kristol, and the entire Bulwark team.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

Hey guys, I popped on with my friends John Heilman and Nicole Wallace today to talk about a bunch of issues, but I think we really were focused on the Cory Booker speech and what kind of impact it could have and why these things might matter and why it is worthwhile to do it, even if we don't know what the political impact will be. Because sometimes there are things that we are called to that are higher and greater than rank political gamesmanship. So good on Cory Booker. Stick around for my analysis with Heilman on that. We also talked about the new chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff or soon to be the nominated chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Something I haven't got to on my pod. His confirmation hearings happened and his interesting answers, shall we say, with regards to Signalgate and get into a bunch of other stuff. So enjoy it. Stick around for that. Subscribe to our feed. We'll see you soon.

[Nicole Wallace]

I want to come back to Hegseth with you and what is perhaps being set up today. Titmiller Someone who isn't the person Donald Trump thought that he was. Donald Trump thought that the person, person who was entering confirmation hearings today was the person who walked up to him and in Trump's telling, it sounded like he slurred something about being willing to die for him and then put on a red hat. The nominee says that never happened, or at least it never happened with him. So this is not who Trump thought he was selecting. But more importantly, he's going to go to work for a secretary of defense in an hour of crisis. This is from the New York Times opinion page today. Quote, why did Hegseth or his fellow officials fail to notice a stranger on the text chain? Even if we make allowances for that mistake, he committed a more novice error. Providing minutiae on an air attack to the most senior officials in the federal government via text message is as unnecessary as it is reckless. To some current and former military officers who read through the conversation, Hegseth appeared to be acting more like a junior officer boasting to superiors than the secretary in charge of overseeing the mission's execution. It's difficult to imagine that two of his recent predecessors, Jim Mattis or Lord Austin, who retired six ranks above Hegseth as four star generals, would have copy and pasted such details onto a publicly available.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, it's interesting those extras put it like that. I had Susan Rice, who was Obama's national security adviser so the Mike Waltz job on the podcast today, and asked her like essentially that question, right? Which is like you, Nicole, I'm not somebody who's been on high level military planning chats. But that just his tone jumped out to me as well. And I asked her about that. I was like, is this the type of thing that Leon Panetta or Bob Gates would have been sharing? And, you know, know, Susan Rice was just like, appalled. I mean, absolutely not. The tone was off, the platform was off. Obviously, you know, something that strikes me, listening to that testimony there from Dan Kaine, you know, he said that was there wasn't anybody from the military on that chat because it was a partisan political chat. And so to me, if that's true, it's like, okay, well, so the secretary of Defense was sharing the exact time we are going to drop certain bombs on a partisan political chat, you know, with other folks. And obviously now we know Jeffrey Goldberg on there. And it's just unbelievable recklessness. I think it reflects somebody who knows that he's a weekend TV host who's trying to impress the other people in the chat and putting people in danger by doing so. And, you know, look, during that testimony, General Kaine was obviously, you know, not going out of his way to criticize the administration. But it was very, I mean, you didn't have to read very hard between the lines to see that he was essentially saying, no, this was totally inappropriate. And I think it is, I guess on balance, it's better that someone like that will be in the room. But it is alarming that he's going to have to be reporting to somebody like Pete Hegseth, who was obviously unqualified on its face and who's demonstrated so in like, the only conversation we've seen who knows all the other ways he's been reckless in conversations that he hasn't accidentally put Jeffrey Goldberg on.

[Nicole Wallace]

You can't manufactured that which is grassroots and organic, and you can't stifle that which is grassroots and organic. And what John Helm is talking about is grassroots, inorganic. It's just in the water. It's out there. People are showing up at town halls. It's showing up anecdotally. And it is, we heard it in those clips. It is anger about the economy. It is feeling sort of fooled or deceived about the outsized role Elon Musk would play. And it is the pigheadedness about tariffs. I think that even Trump's base understood the tariffs. Tariffs as a negotiating. I think Trump has this conversation with his own voters that we don't always key in on, but I think even some of his own Voters think the conversation around tariffs was that it was a negotiating tactic to strike better deals, not that it would make literally every product at Wal Mart and Target more expensive.

[Tim Miller]

You're exactly right, Nicole. I like your first observation there is just spot on. Like, what is grassroots, inorganic that has worked for Mag in the past is, has been mostly the force of Donald Trump. Doesn't land for any of us, but it does motivate people to turn out and vote. That has not. There's not been any evidence today that that's transferable to Elon Musk and possibly the opposite, actually. I think that Elon Musk is, as John points out, motivating opposition to this administration, motivating people to turn out, as we heard from some of those in that clip. And I think that we're going to see that particularly in Wisconsin tonight where he had a big, the biggest footprint and maybe a little less so in that Florida 6 district congressional race. But you know, as far as people being disappointed, you just can't look at the first 71 days. Like, the only people who have been served by the first 71 days of Trump and who are thinking, man, this is exactly what I want is like super online MAGA troll posters who are just like happy that Andrew Tate is back in the country and they're happy that, you know, the media is mad and like, they don't, you know what I mean? Like, nothing. Their life hasn't gotten any better, but they just, all they want is the suffering of liberals, right? Like, and they want to win this imaginary war that they're in online and they feel like they're winning now. Like, those are the only people who are in their basement posting onto X that have been served by this administration. If you're just a regular MAGA American who thought that, you know, you wanted prices to be lower, you haven't gotten anything so far.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, I listened in to some of what Senator Cory Booker was saying at the top of the hour and this is raw. There will be clips of this that will live in places where people don't tune in to a lot of, as John said, a lot of what has been reduced to stunts and showmanship and shallow and on the Republican side, disingenuous efforts at things like congressional hearings, where Republicans today sat at the story that we started with, Tim. They sat before a nominee and didn't have anything to say about whether or not an insecure online app that included a journalist was something that he would sound the alarm on or call Congress if he were ever included. On one with Pete Hegseth, the secretary of Defense. What do what are sort of your your questions or thoughts on this moment from Cory Booker today?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, here's what I think. I think another thing that people don't like to say on these kinds of shows is that we are very bad at predicting the future. We don't know what will resonate long term. That's not something a pundit is supposed to say, but that's just true. And so my continued message over these first 71 days to Democrats has been try stuff, show emotion. You don't know what the spark will be that will get people off out of their chairs and into the streets and into the voting booths. Tonight in Wisconsin and Florida, we don't know. Everybody would have said it's ridiculous that Rick Santelli's rant on CNBC will be the thing that people remember from the Tea Party. Nobody would have predicted that. Nobody would have predicted Obama or Trump. Right? So go out there, show that you care, show your passion, show you have emotion and something will spark because, you know, the administration is doing too bad of a job of governing for nothing to spark in response to them. The nation's soul is not totally black. And so maybe this will be it from Cory Booker, and I'm happy that he's out there doing it.