Tim Miller: Epstein Outrage Is Breaking Through!

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Tim Miller - Epstein Outrage Is Breaking Through!

Release Date: July 27, 2025

Overview

In the July 27, 2025 episode of Bulwark Takes, host Tim Miller delves into the escalating public and political outrage surrounding the Jeffrey Epstein case. Engaging in a dynamic conversation with political strategist Jen Psaki and activist Ezra Levin from Indivisible, Miller explores the multifaceted implications of the Epstein revelations on the upcoming midterm elections, Democratic strategies, Republican responses, and the broader impact on public engagement. The episode offers a comprehensive analysis of how the Epstein scandal is not only reshaping political narratives but also mobilizing previously disengaged demographics.

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1. Political Implications of the Epstein Case

Tim Miller opens the discussion by highlighting his recent appearance on a show with Jen Psaki, where they dissected the political ramifications of the Epstein case.

[00:00] Tim Miller: "Hey everybody, Tim Miller from the Bulwark. I was on with Jen Psaki last night and we were talking about an angle on this Epstein case."

Jen Psaki underscores the significance of the scandal in the political arena, particularly its potential influence on the midterm elections.

[00:28] Jen Psaki: "It definitely seems like it will play some role in the midterms."

The conversation emphasizes that while legal aspects are pressing, the political fallout is equally critical as it threatens to reshape voter sentiments and campaign strategies.

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2. Democrat Strategies Amid the Scandal

Miller and Psaki discuss how Democratic strategists are navigating the Epstein issue. Psaki points out that organizations like Indivisible are actively organizing and utilizing Epstein-related ads to galvanize support.

[00:39] Jen Psaki: "They have some ads related to Epstein and I think that's interesting."

Miller suggests that instead of defaulting to traditional TV ads, Democrats should seek more authentic and credible ways to engage voters on this issue.

[00:51] Tim Miller: "I feel like Democratic campaign strategists always get immediately into TV ad mode... But I think there are other ways."

Ezra Levin adds that authentic, grassroots engagement is essential for resonating with voters who are genuinely moved by the Epstein revelations.

[04:15] Ezra Levin: "What have you heard from people out there who feel angry about this, who may want to know when there's going to be a protest they can participate in or want to know what action they can take?"

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3. Mobilizing the Disengaged Electorate

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how the Epstein scandal is capturing the attention of previously disengaged voters. Maria Farmer, a victim and activist, highlights the transformation in public awareness and the opportunity it presents for Democratic engagement.

[04:45] Maria Farmer: "The Epstein files as one of the most recent but biggest breakthrough moments we've had with the population that largely... doesn't pay attention to politics."

Farmer emphasizes the necessity of bringing new people into the political discourse, especially those who have been indifferent, by leveraging the scandal's emotional and ethical implications.

[05:00] Maria Farmer: "We've got to be pulling new people in... if you're worried about what's happening with Epstein files, why aren't you voting to release those?"

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4. Republican Response and Challenges

Tim Miller provides an analysis of the Republican Party's struggle to maintain support amid the Epstein revelations. He notes the internal conflict as Republicans attempt to distance themselves from Trump while facing backlash from the manosphere and podcast communities.

[07:35] Tim Miller: "The biggest political issue for them is, is that Trump seems like such a normal politician right now... the trust connection being broken."

Miller explains that Republicans are attempting to deflect the scandal by targeting Democratic elites and finding other issues to rally their base, but this strategy is proving challenging in maintaining their supporter base's trust.

[08:21] Tim Miller: "How do you rebuild that if you're Republicans?... they're trying to distract this... How can you find other issues where you can get on the right side of that group."

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5. Public Engagement and Future Projections

The episode concludes with Levin and Miller discussing the evolving public sentiment and the potential long-term effects on the political landscape. Maria Farmer anticipates an increased public demand for transparency and accountability, hoping the momentum will lead to meaningful political engagement and action.

[06:51] Maria Farmer: "It's starting now, and they've got to go home and answer their constituents. One of the top questions on people's mind is, hey, what's happening with Epstein files?"

Miller and Levin ponder the sustainability of this outrage and whether it will translate into lasting political change or fade as the news cycle moves forward.

[07:35] Tim Miller: "The elections aren't for 15 months. So maybe we'll see how this five week break goes and we'll deal."

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Notable Quotes

• "The biggest political issue for them is, is that Trump seems like such a normal politician right now."
  — Tim Miller [07:35]

• "The Epstein files as one of the most recent but biggest breakthrough moments we've had with the population that largely doesn't pay attention to politics."
  — Maria Farmer [04:45]

• "I think the Democrats should not try to force this... just look for opportunities to talk to voters and talk to them about this in a way that they might talk about it themselves."
  — Tim Miller [03:50]

• "We can't just be organizing the same old people. We've got to be pulling new people in."
  — Maria Farmer [04:45]

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Conclusion

This episode of Bulwark Takes offers a thorough examination of how the Epstein scandal is not only a legal and ethical issue but also a significant political catalyst. Through insightful dialogue, Tim Miller and his guests illuminate the intricate dynamics between Democratic strategies, Republican challenges, and the pivotal role of public engagement in shaping the midterm elections. As the fallout from the Epstein case continues to unfold, its impact on American politics and voter mobilization remains a critical area to watch.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

Hey everybody, Tim Miller from the Bulwark. I was on with Jen Psaki last night and we were talking about an angle on this Epstein case. I haven't gotten into a bunch on.

[Jen Psaki]

This feed, so I wanted to share it with you.

[Tim Miller]

We talk about the politics and what's, you know, how it may or may.

[Jen Psaki]

Not impact the midterms.

[Tim Miller]

And you know, for me there have.

[Jen Psaki]

Been more pressing kind of matters from a legal standpoint. Had Andrew Wiseman on yesterday, victim standpoint, talking about Stacey Will, talking to Stacey Williams. Go watch that interview if you have it.

[Tim Miller]

But the politics of this obviously matter at this point.

[Jen Psaki]

It definitely seems like it will play some role in the midterms.

[Tim Miller]

And so we talked a little bit.

[Jen Psaki]

About what and how the Democrats should talk about this issue, you know, as.

[Tim Miller]

It relates to campaign politics.

[Jen Psaki]

So I was on with Ezra Levin as well over at Indivisible.

[Tim Miller]

They're already out there doing organizing related to Epstein.

[Jen Psaki]

They have some ads related to Epstein and I think that's interesting.

[Tim Miller]

You know, my take was a little different. I don't, I feel like Democratic campaign.

[Jen Psaki]

Strategists always get immediately into TV ad mode, like what can we do with the TV ad?

[Tim Miller]

But I think there are other ways.

[Jen Psaki]

To kind of be more authentic and credible in talking about this issue.

[Tim Miller]

You know, it's not like there aren't any vulnerabilities there for Democrats too.

[Jen Psaki]

I mean, you know, the first thing that Republicans are obviously going to say, Republican voters are going to say, why didn't you do this when Biden was president?

[Tim Miller]

And I think there are good answers to that question.

[Jen Psaki]

But so I think there are forums that I think lend more towards credibility.

[Tim Miller]

On this if you're a Democrat. So we talk about that. Jen's obviously really smart on this, so stick around for that. We're gonna have much, much more on this next week.

[Jen Psaki]

Subscribe to the feed.

[Tim Miller]

I'll go on a swamp tour with.

[Jen Psaki]

My kid and her friend, which is why you're seeing my shoulders right now.

[Tim Miller]

But I'll be back later if we got breaking news and we'll be talking to you guys soon.

[Jen Psaki]

Stick around for me, Jen and Ezra Levin of Indivisible.

[Ezra Levin]

One of the questions, I mean, I've been thinking about Tim. There's so much to be enraged with about this story. There's transparency, there's the COVID up, there's the former personal attorney meeting with a suspension sexual predator. I mean there's lots of things right. And I keep thinking about this woman Maria Farmer we had on last night. Who's just one of so many victims here. And we don't talk nearly much about that. But one of the things that's interesting about this story from a political standpoint is people are enraged and they want them to be released. And the Republican base is divided and pissed off at Trump. But it doesn't mean Democrats or others are flocking to Democrats right now. Right. We're not seeing that necessarily. What do you think? How do Democrats out there, people running for office, it doesn't have to be people in Washington. People are trying to get engaged, talk about this in a way where it feels real and it feels authentic and it's not. It doesn't feel like it's just trying to take advantage of a political weakness on the other side.

[Andrew Wiseman]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

I just want to say the Maria Farmer interview last night was really good and I was watching it and her testimony is so important. She was the first one to name Donald Trump. And as associated with this way back in 96, the FBI. So anyway, that's very important. As for the Democrats and the politics of this. Yeah, look, the thing that the Democrats have struggled with most, if you look at all the demographic groups and we don't always break these US campaign strategists look at this demo and that demo, the demo the demos have struggled with most are people that just aren't that engaged. Right. Disengaged people, it doesn't matter. Men, women, race. And so this is an issue that they care about and understand and pay attention to.

[Andrew Wiseman]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

Like people that don't watch the news, don't watch this show, don't listen to my podcast.

[Andrew Wiseman]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

They do know about the Jeffrey Epstein story. They do care about it. And so this is an opportunity for Democrats to talk to them about that. And I think that to your point about being authentic, if there are women Democratic politicians that want to talk about why this matters to them, in particular about their experience with sexual abuse or their experience helping survivors, they should do that. If there are guys, male politicians that want to go on bro podcasts and make jokes about how Donald Trump is in there, I think that's a useful thing to do.

[Andrew Wiseman]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, I think this thing has broken through. Comedians like Shane Gillis and the Flagrant podcast have been teasing about this. So I just think the Democrats should not try to force this. I think what Ezra's doing is good, but they don't need to try to force it into a 30 second TV ad per se. You know, just look for opportunities to talk to voters and talk to them about this in a way that they might talk about it themselves.

[Ezra Levin]

Ezra, just to add to that, I mean, one of the reasons I love talking with you is you're not. You're not just looking at polls, you're not just making TV ads. You're actually talking to people who are moved by things. And sometimes it's unpredictable what people are moved by and how they're moved by things. What have you heard from people out there who feel angry about this, who may want to know when there's going to be a protest they can participate in or want to know what action they can take? What is moving them specifically?

[Maria Farmer]

You know, over the last several months, we have seen a real transformation among the public. I think people started out assuming that this guy was going to consolidate power and have the ability to just implement his agenda and there wasn't going to be pushback. I would put the Epstein files as one of the most recent but biggest breakthrough moments we've had with the population that largely, as Tim said, doesn't pay attention to politics. And these are people who we desperately need involved. It's not enough to just reach out to folks who are politically engaged all the time. If you truly fear what Donald Trump's political project is, as I do, you understand that we can't just be organizing the same old people. We've got to be pulling new people in. So when we talk to organizer organizers on the ground, what they are trying to do is to welcome new people into this movement. And whether you're coming here because you're worried about the secret police force that has now just been funded to the Hill, whether you're worried about your Medicaid being cut off, maybe you voted for Donald Trump and now you're concerned that this guy's just out for himself. And exhibit A is him hiding what's in the Epstein piles. Whatever it is, it's important to welcome people in. And so our folks on the ground who are organizing in red states and blue states and purple states and rural areas and suburban areas and urban areas, they are there to welcome people in. And if it's the Epstein files bringing them in, because that's what broke through, great, welcome to the club. And they are seeing this drive new people to start to question whether this guy is for real. And I, in my book, that's a good thing, we should take advantage of it and we shouldn't let Trump or anybody else change the subject. And the good news is we're headed into August recess early as a result of the Republicans actions They brought these weeks of members of Congress going back home to their districts to talk to their constituents early. It's starting now, and they've got to go home and answer their constituents. And as you covered earlier, one of the top questions on people's mind is, hey, what's happening with Epstein files? Why aren't you voting to release those?

[Ezra Levin]

Which is. I don't know if I'm surprised by it. I am a little surprised by it, frankly. But we are at the beginning part of August recess. We'll see. But it is interesting how it's manifesting itself out there. Let me ask you, Tim, just to put your Republican strategist hat on for a moment, you've spent many years in that world. I mean, what I can't wrap my head around here or figure out a bit is Trump went further than he has to date, basically suggesting a Maxwell pardon may be on the table today. Right. And ABC has also reported on this proffer agreement for Maxwell. And it doesn't feel, I mean, there are some who are excusing him in the Republican Party, but the manosphere in the podcast world seems to be still pretty enraged with him. How do you think that sits? Like, what does that do to the divide that's happening right now?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, well, here's the challenge. I'll do the challenge, then I'll put my Republican strategist hat on. It's been a while, but I think it still fits. But the challenge for them is as outrageous as the facts of the story are, I think the biggest political issue for them is, is that Trump seems like such a normal politician right now. The types of people that all these guys hate, he's covering up this story. He's protecting himself, he's protecting his rich buddies. I think you tie that to what we saw with the big bill that they put through Congress. And you can see this where, as you mentioned, the manosphere, these podcasters are like, wait a minute, I thought this guy was supposed to be different than the other politicians. I thought he was supposed to be challenging the elite status quo. And so you can see that trust connection being broken.

[Andrew Wiseman]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

So how do you rebuild that if you're Republicans? The answer to that question is, well, number one, the elections aren't for 15 months. So maybe we'll see how this five week break goes and we'll deal, you know, to come talk to me at Christmas. I'm gonna go hide out and like, you know, hang out by the lake for a little while. Could really be the answer. But the other answer is what they're trying to do.

[Andrew Wiseman]

Right.

[Tim Miller]

Which and this is why they're trying to distract this is why they're trying to do the Obama thing. How can you find other issues where you can get on the right side of that group and hope that this dissipates and that you can raise the salience of that? And so I think, or maybe within this issue, how can you find ways to go after Democratic elites? And that's what I suspect they're trying to do with this insider corrupt deal with Ghislaine Maxwell. So I think that's where their head's at.

[Ezra Levin]

I'm sure they want her to have something incriminating about one of the many Democrats they all have a conspiracy theory about. We'll all just predict that's where they're headed or trying to. Ezra Levin to Miller, thank you both so much. I really appreciate you joining me.