Tim Miller Goes Off on Dave Rubin - Bulwark Takes

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Tim Miller Goes Off on Dave Rubin Episode Release Date: March 27, 2025

Overview

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Tim Miller engages in a heated debate with Dave Rubin and Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss, delving into controversies surrounding the use of the Signal app for classified communications within the Trump administration. The discussion navigates through allegations of security breaches, accountability of Republican officials, and broader implications for national security and political integrity.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Signal App Controversy

Timestamp [01:18] - Tim Miller's Opening Remarks

Tim Miller initiates the conversation by referencing his return to political debate after a hiatus:

"I took a few months off of debating the MAGAs, but after the Houthi small group text chain, I decided it's time to get back in the game." [01:18]

He criticizes the involvement of Dave Rubin and Tenet Media with MAGA podcasters, highlighting perceived inadequacies in their representation.

Dave Rubin's Concerns [01:18 - 02:00]

Dave Rubin responds by addressing the severity of the Signal app incident, emphasizing the potential national security risks:

"Anyone that tries to defend this or downplay the severity of it or play what a bow tree or anything else, I think it needs to stop." [01:18]

2. Accountability and Hypotheticals

Tim Miller's Hypothetical Scenarios [02:00 - 03:52]

Tim Miller poses a hypothetical situation to illustrate the need for accountability:

"Imagine if a low level general who is involved in this operation had texted the exact time and location of a military strike to an anti-Trump journalist now." [02:00]

He argues that such an action would result in immediate dismissal and a DOJ investigation if performed by a "woke" general, suggesting that the current administration lacks similar accountability.

Congressman Jake Auchincloss Interjects [05:24 - 08:03]

Congressman Auchincloss challenges the legality of using Signal for classified information:

"It's illegal to share classified material over Signal." [06:03]

He criticizes Republicans for acting not as a separate branch but as a board of advisors, blaming them for national security lapses:

"These people are not fit for the office that they hold. And all Republicans in Congress do is..." [07:30]

3. Investigations and Legal Implications

Doug's Commentary on Lawsuits [08:56 - 09:47]

Dave Rubin introduces a lawsuit by American Oversight against Pete Hegseth and other officials for using Signal to discuss military plans:

"American Oversight alleges... violated federal records law." [08:57]

Tim Miller on Accountability [09:47 - 10:52]

Tim Miller advocates for serious investigations:

"There should be an actual investigation into this." [09:47]

He criticizes Mike Waltz for suggesting potential espionage without evidence:

"He just doesn't want to actually take the." [10:30]

4. Technical and Procedural Flaws

Dave Rubin's Skepticism [10:52 - 14:25]

Rubin expresses concern over the malfunctioning security protocols:

"The idea that he doesn't know whether everyone's name in his contacts list is attached to the right number... is frankly terrifying." [10:52]

He questions the rationale behind preloading Signal on officials' devices if it’s deemed insecure:

"If it is illegal to use as a mode of communication, why is it put on their computers?" [17:23]

5. Tangential Discussions and Personal Attacks

Debate Over Jasmine Crockett's Remarks [18:56 - 22:41]

The conversation shifts to criticism of Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett's derogatory remarks about Governor Greg Abbott:

"She made a crass, repulsive jibe about... a disabled man in a wheelchair." [19:05]

Tim Miller and Jake Auchincloss exchange barbed comments about media affiliations and alleged Russian connections, though these claims lack substantiation within the transcript.

Notable Quotes

Tim Miller [02:00]:
"Imagine if a low level general who is involved in this operation had texted the exact time and location of a military strike to an anti-Trump journalist now."
Dave Rubin [01:18]:
"Anyone that tries to defend this or downplay the severity of it or play what a bow tree or anything else, I think it needs to stop."
Jake Auchincloss [06:03]:
"It's illegal to share classified material over Signal."
Tim Miller [09:47]:
"There should be an actual investigation into this."
Dave Rubin [10:52]:
"The idea that he doesn't know whether everyone's name in his contacts list is attached to the right number... is frankly terrifying."

Insights and Conclusions

The episode underscores significant concerns about the handling of classified information within the Republican faction, particularly highlighting the use of the Signal app for sensitive communications. Tim Miller and Congressman Auchincloss advocate for stringent accountability measures, suggesting that current Republican officials are failing in their duties to protect national security.

Dave Rubin, while critical, calls for a balanced approach, questioning the existing protocols and the potential for misuse of secure communication platforms. The debaters collectively emphasize the necessity for thorough investigations to uphold the integrity of military and governmental operations.

Moreover, the episode touches on broader political tensions, including critiques of Democratic counterparts and internal conflicts within media affiliations, although these discussions veer into personal attacks and unverified claims.

Overall, the conversation paints a picture of deep partisan divides and highlights the ongoing struggle to maintain national security amidst political maneuvering and alleged incompetencies.

Transcript

Tim Miller (0:00)

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Tim Miller (0:31)

Hey guys, it's Tim. I took a few months off of debating the MAGAs, but after the Houthi small group text chain, I decided it's time to get back in the game. So I was on the Piers Morgan show across from Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss. Shout out Jake. And a guy that was arrested on January 6th and Dave Rubin, podcast host who got duped by the Russians. Tenet media who were investing in MAGA podcasters and MAGA voices paying a lot of money, paying big bucks. So anyway, they weren't sending their best. Enjoy our conversation.

Dave Rubin (1:18)

We got Tim Miller's joined us now. Let me bring Tim in at this stage. Tim, I like your interview with Jeffrey Goldberg, but it just seems to me, and you know, again, just to stress, if it was the other way around, I'd say exactly the same thing. I don't care which side is doing it, but anyone that tries to defend this or downplay the severity of it or play what a bow tree or anything else, I think it needs to stop. This needs to be accepted for what it was. A tremendous error which could have had tremendously serious consequences. And if it was a senior military person who'd done it, they'd already be gone.

Tim Miller (2:00)

For sure. Look to that senior military example. Look, Pete Hegset has already fired several generals. He's fired several people throughout the Department of Defense. So is Elon Musk as part of the Doge process? Imagine, you know, we're doing the hypotheticals. What about Biden? I think the more apt hypothetical is imagine if a low level general who is involved in this operation had texted the exact time and location of a military strike to an anti Trump journalist now. And imagine if that general is one of these woke generals that they're going after. Maybe it's a black general or a woman. Imagine what Pete Hegsetts would be saying today. Imagine what Dave Rubin would be saying today. We know what These guys would be saying, these woke generals, they're the deep state. We need a court martial, we need an investigation. This person needs to be fired. I think we can all agree that that is what would be happening today. That that person, if they were a two star black general or female general and they had done this, they would be fired today. I think that's very obvious. And so, you know, look, Pete Hegseth might be a mate of yours, might be a good person. I don't know, I've never met Pete Hegseth, but to me you read the signal chain and this looks like it got its way in over his head. And this is not if General Mattis here, it's impossible to imagine General Mattis texting emojis and all caps pathetic to a signal group chain preparing them for when the strikes would be. It signals to me somebody that's not serious, it's not up for the job. The fact that then on the chain he says we have 100% operational security here and there's someone on the chain he doesn't know. You didn't check to make sure you knew everybody on the chain. I think it shows just an unbelievable lack of seriousness. And I think clearly if this was one of the woke generals that Pete exit doesn't like, they would be fired today and there would be a DOJ investigation targeting them.