Tim Miller Goes Off on Dave Rubin

Summary

Bulwark Takes: Tim Miller Goes Off on Dave Rubin Episode Release Date: March 27, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of Bulwark Takes, Tim Miller engages in a heated debate with Dave Rubin and Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss, delving into controversies surrounding the use of the Signal app for classified communications within the Trump administration. The discussion navigates through allegations of security breaches, accountability of Republican officials, and broader implications for national security and political integrity.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Signal App Controversy

Timestamp [01:18] - Tim Miller's Opening Remarks

Tim Miller initiates the conversation by referencing his return to political debate after a hiatus:

"I took a few months off of debating the MAGAs, but after the Houthi small group text chain, I decided it's time to get back in the game." [01:18]

He criticizes the involvement of Dave Rubin and Tenet Media with MAGA podcasters, highlighting perceived inadequacies in their representation.

Dave Rubin's Concerns [01:18 - 02:00]

Dave Rubin responds by addressing the severity of the Signal app incident, emphasizing the potential national security risks:

"Anyone that tries to defend this or downplay the severity of it or play what a bow tree or anything else, I think it needs to stop." [01:18]

2. Accountability and Hypotheticals

Tim Miller's Hypothetical Scenarios [02:00 - 03:52]

Tim Miller poses a hypothetical situation to illustrate the need for accountability:

"Imagine if a low level general who is involved in this operation had texted the exact time and location of a military strike to an anti-Trump journalist now." [02:00]

He argues that such an action would result in immediate dismissal and a DOJ investigation if performed by a "woke" general, suggesting that the current administration lacks similar accountability.

Congressman Jake Auchincloss Interjects [05:24 - 08:03]

Congressman Auchincloss challenges the legality of using Signal for classified information:

"It's illegal to share classified material over Signal." [06:03]

He criticizes Republicans for acting not as a separate branch but as a board of advisors, blaming them for national security lapses:

"These people are not fit for the office that they hold. And all Republicans in Congress do is..." [07:30]

3. Investigations and Legal Implications

Doug's Commentary on Lawsuits [08:56 - 09:47]

Dave Rubin introduces a lawsuit by American Oversight against Pete Hegseth and other officials for using Signal to discuss military plans:

"American Oversight alleges... violated federal records law." [08:57]

Tim Miller on Accountability [09:47 - 10:52]

Tim Miller advocates for serious investigations:

"There should be an actual investigation into this." [09:47]

He criticizes Mike Waltz for suggesting potential espionage without evidence:

"He just doesn't want to actually take the." [10:30]

4. Technical and Procedural Flaws

Dave Rubin's Skepticism [10:52 - 14:25]

Rubin expresses concern over the malfunctioning security protocols:

"The idea that he doesn't know whether everyone's name in his contacts list is attached to the right number... is frankly terrifying." [10:52]

He questions the rationale behind preloading Signal on officials' devices if it’s deemed insecure:

"If it is illegal to use as a mode of communication, why is it put on their computers?" [17:23]

5. Tangential Discussions and Personal Attacks

Debate Over Jasmine Crockett's Remarks [18:56 - 22:41]

The conversation shifts to criticism of Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett's derogatory remarks about Governor Greg Abbott:

"She made a crass, repulsive jibe about... a disabled man in a wheelchair." [19:05]

Tim Miller and Jake Auchincloss exchange barbed comments about media affiliations and alleged Russian connections, though these claims lack substantiation within the transcript.

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Notable Quotes

• Tim Miller [02:00]:
  "Imagine if a low level general who is involved in this operation had texted the exact time and location of a military strike to an anti-Trump journalist now."

• Dave Rubin [01:18]:
  "Anyone that tries to defend this or downplay the severity of it or play what a bow tree or anything else, I think it needs to stop."

• Jake Auchincloss [06:03]:
  "It's illegal to share classified material over Signal."

• Tim Miller [09:47]:
  "There should be an actual investigation into this."

• Dave Rubin [10:52]:
  "The idea that he doesn't know whether everyone's name in his contacts list is attached to the right number... is frankly terrifying."

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Insights and Conclusions

The episode underscores significant concerns about the handling of classified information within the Republican faction, particularly highlighting the use of the Signal app for sensitive communications. Tim Miller and Congressman Auchincloss advocate for stringent accountability measures, suggesting that current Republican officials are failing in their duties to protect national security.

Dave Rubin, while critical, calls for a balanced approach, questioning the existing protocols and the potential for misuse of secure communication platforms. The debaters collectively emphasize the necessity for thorough investigations to uphold the integrity of military and governmental operations.

Moreover, the episode touches on broader political tensions, including critiques of Democratic counterparts and internal conflicts within media affiliations, although these discussions veer into personal attacks and unverified claims.

Overall, the conversation paints a picture of deep partisan divides and highlights the ongoing struggle to maintain national security amidst political maneuvering and alleged incompetencies.

Transcript

[Tim Miller]

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[Tim Miller]

Hey guys, it's Tim. I took a few months off of debating the MAGAs, but after the Houthi small group text chain, I decided it's time to get back in the game. So I was on the Piers Morgan show across from Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss. Shout out Jake. And a guy that was arrested on January 6th and Dave Rubin, podcast host who got duped by the Russians. Tenet media who were investing in MAGA podcasters and MAGA voices paying a lot of money, paying big bucks. So anyway, they weren't sending their best. Enjoy our conversation.

[Dave Rubin]

We got Tim Miller's joined us now. Let me bring Tim in at this stage. Tim, I like your interview with Jeffrey Goldberg, but it just seems to me, and you know, again, just to stress, if it was the other way around, I'd say exactly the same thing. I don't care which side is doing it, but anyone that tries to defend this or downplay the severity of it or play what a bow tree or anything else, I think it needs to stop. This needs to be accepted for what it was. A tremendous error which could have had tremendously serious consequences. And if it was a senior military person who'd done it, they'd already be gone.

[Tim Miller]

For sure. Look to that senior military example. Look, Pete Hegset has already fired several generals. He's fired several people throughout the Department of Defense. So is Elon Musk as part of the Doge process? Imagine, you know, we're doing the hypotheticals. What about Biden? I think the more apt hypothetical is imagine if a low level general who is involved in this operation had texted the exact time and location of a military strike to an anti Trump journalist now. And imagine if that general is one of these woke generals that they're going after. Maybe it's a black general or a woman. Imagine what Pete Hegsetts would be saying today. Imagine what Dave Rubin would be saying today. We know what These guys would be saying, these woke generals, they're the deep state. We need a court martial, we need an investigation. This person needs to be fired. I think we can all agree that that is what would be happening today. That that person, if they were a two star black general or female general and they had done this, they would be fired today. I think that's very obvious. And so, you know, look, Pete Hegseth might be a mate of yours, might be a good person. I don't know, I've never met Pete Hegseth, but to me you read the signal chain and this looks like it got its way in over his head. And this is not if General Mattis here, it's impossible to imagine General Mattis texting emojis and all caps pathetic to a signal group chain preparing them for when the strikes would be. It signals to me somebody that's not serious, it's not up for the job. The fact that then on the chain he says we have 100% operational security here and there's someone on the chain he doesn't know. You didn't check to make sure you knew everybody on the chain. I think it shows just an unbelievable lack of seriousness. And I think clearly if this was one of the woke generals that Pete exit doesn't like, they would be fired today and there would be a DOJ investigation targeting them.

[Dave Rubin]

All right, Dave Rubin, a lot to unpack there, but I mean a lot I agree with, I have to say. Look, let's talk about the signal aspect. If they, as you say, and I've seen that report, if they were encouraged to use signal, in fact it had been put on a lot apparently of their phones and so on when they came into their positions. So they're allowed to use signal which is deemed to be one of the more secure ways of communicating. And you believe, as Pete Hegseth clearly did, that you've only got on there the Secretary of State, the Defense secretary, the national security adviser and so on. In other words, all the senior members of the cabinet that would be involved, plus one or two hand picked staffers who are very high level. If you assume that's who you're talking to privately, then I'm not too phased about emojis and stuff like that. You've got to have some presumption, I think when you're conversing with people at that level that you presume to be that level, that it will remain private. So I'm not sure I can get too exercised about that part of it. The thing that still exercises me, though, is just that if it hadn't been Jeffrey Goldberg, but had been somebody who wanted to really damage the administration, they really could have done. And you could have seen American planes blowing out the sky.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Sure. Look, there's a couple of things going on here. First off, I think your guest in the center. I'm sorry, I don't remember the congressman's name. I think he said it was illegal to use Signal in these chats. Now, again, ratio Cliff, who is the CIA director, is saying, as you just said again, that it was preloaded on their computers and devices. So I don't think that's illegal. But if there's some. There's some legal portion of this.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, just for the record, you are not allowed to take.

[Congressman]

It's Jake's holding material over signal.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, just to introduce you again, Jake for Dave is Jake Auchincloss, who's a Democrat Congressman from Massachusetts. So, Jake, you want to respond to him?

[Jake Auchincloss]

Okay, so. Well, there's some issue as it pertains to whether you cannot share classified material over signal.

[Dave Rubin]

Okay, so that's interesting. So, all right, so, Congressman, just to be clear, it is illegal to share classified information over signal. Is that what you're saying?

[Tim Miller]

Yes.

[Congressman]

The military has its own entire network. They have skiffs inside the homes of every senior military commander. They have skiffs co located with the Secretary of defense. Precisely. So that they are not putting highly classified operational plans on commercial messaging apps. It's illegal, full stop. And Pete Hegseth needs to own that accountability, because if this happened to a corporal or a captain or a general, their career would be over. He shouldn't have this job in the first place, and my goodness, he certainly shouldn't have it.

[Dave Rubin]

Now, Dave, I mean, if it turns out that that is correct, and I don't dispute what the congressman just said, then should Pete Hegseth consider his position? It's a legitimate question. Which Republicans would be asking of a Democrat.

[Jake Auchincloss]

I don't know. I can only hear the information that you're hearing on the fly. The same exact. That they were told you are not allowed to put classified information in a Signal chat, and they went ahead and did it, even though it was preloaded on their computer. And Ratcliffe testified that he was briefed by people at the CIA about using that stuff. Well, then there's a secondary problem, and also it should be reiterated. I don't think anyone here is defending the fact that Mike Waltz apparently let this guy into the chat. So there is some intellectual consistency here. But. And it's up to Trump. Trump has to decide what he wants to do right now. Does he think this is a big enough scandal and it's not hearing a guy that he gets or not?

[Congressman]

It's not up to Trump.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Trump.

[Congressman]

See this is the problem with the way Republicans this is the problem with the way Republicans are acting these days is they act like a board of advisors.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Democrats just had four years of a president with dementia and a completely unqualified cabinet and virtually everyone that had anything to do with it. So tell me more about the Republicans.

[Congressman]

The Republicans act like a board of advisors to a CEO as opposed to a separate and co equal branch of government. They have abdicated their responsibility. Mike Johnson acts like a courtier. John Thune acts like a courtier. They're the ones who confirmed this junior varsity squad of people who are getting out competed by the Kremlin and out negotiated who are who are being laughed out by the Chinese Communist Party right now as they prepare to blockade Taiwan. This is threatening the safety of the American people. These people are not fit for the office that they hold. And all Republicans in Congress do is.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Joe Biden had dementia. Did Joe Biden have dementia? And we had four years of him. Do you think Joe Biden was mentally competent to be president for four years? Do you think Joe Biden knew things?

[Congressman]

It's amazing. The what about isms.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Why do you want Hillary Gazette?

[Congressman]

We want to talk about Barack Obama's tan suit as well. You would do anything to not have talked about the fact to be secretary of defense just shared classified.

[Jake Auchincloss]

To be fair, was Joe Biden mentally both sides capable of being president?

[Dave Rubin]

Let's all except Joe Biden was was mentally unfit for office. Let's accept that as we've been talking.

[Jake Auchincloss]

One of us isn't acceptable.

[Dave Rubin]

There is a report now that Pete Hegseth and other Trump administration officials are being sued by government watchdog group for using signal to discuss the military plans to strike Houthi targets in Yemen. American Oversight alleges in his lawsuit that the chat on the unclassified commercial app that mistakenly included the Atlantic editor in Chief Jeffrey Goldberg violated federal records law. So that does appear to be something that is now an active lawsuit. Tim Miller, just to bring you back in on this, what do you think should happen? I mean in terms of accountability at the moment there's a sort of Trumpian playbook of them all doubling down, launching a lot of water battery attacks back, but nobody wanting to actually say it's a fair cop guv and I better stand on My sword.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Look, I mean I think that there should be an actual investigation into this. I don't really have any hope that the Pam Bondi or DOJ or Cash Patel FBI will take this seriously, but I think there should be. And I also think that, sure, Mike Waltz should be accountable for this. And Mike Waltz was on Fox last night. This is crazy, Pierce. Mike Waltz was on Fox last night suggesting to Laura Ingraham that Jeffrey Goldberg might have gotten on this signal chat deliberately. That's what he said. He said it might have been deliberate. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. That's our national security advisor. That's a very serious accusation. He's saying that a magazine editor might have committed illegal espionage. And so. But he just doesn't want to actually take the.

[Dave Rubin]

Well then he changed.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, but then to find out whether or not that was true, you need to have a real investigation by DOJ or by Special counsel. And they don't want that because he knows it's him. So he just wants to throw out those lies willy nilly. And it's kind of an absurd lie really. Actually, if some boomer magazine editor was able to sneak onto the chat illegally, that I think speaks even more to how incompetent the administration was. Other than the true story.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. I found it slightly more disconcerting that his second explanation, because he had quite a few on the Laura Ingram interview, was that somehow this Jeffrey Goldberg's number had been under somebody else's name in his contacts list. Just to remind the viewers watching this, this guy is the national Security adviser for the United States of America. The idea that he doesn't know whether everyone's name in his contacts list is attached to the right number and can therefore be communicating with God knows who without any actual knowledge that they are who he thinks they are is frankly terrifying. I mean, when you think about who his contacts may include, I mean, Brandon, can you find any explanation for this that makes any sense? This guy's the number one security guy in the country.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Yeah.

[Brandon]

No, I mean, look, I think it's not a great situation and I think that the messaging that's been put forward by him at this point has not made people feel terribly confident. But again, at the end of the day I maintain the fact that it could have been a bad situation. I think people, I think at this point it should be investigated. I think that obviously communications are going to be tightened up. They will learn from this experience. I don't think anything like this will ever happen again. Probably shouldn't have happened in the first place. I do agree that from what we know so far, it doesn't seem like any laws were broken by using signal. I don't think that we have any evidence at this point that the information being discussed could be determined as classified. I don't think that's been definitively determined.

[Dave Rubin]

Come on. Come on, Brandon. Brandon, come on. Let's come back to planet Earth and reality. Right? It is. I literally cannot think of anything that could be deemed more highly classified than openly talking in a group of people on a platform where you're. Apparently, it is unlawful to talk about classified information. And I take the Congressman's words for that. And certainly this lawsuit seems to reinforce that that is the case or they wouldn't be launching it. But the idea that these specifics that they were talking about times, weather conditions, type of aircraft being used, who they were attacking, and then giving a running commentary on how it was going with emojis punching the air and American flags and so on, the idea that that doesn't constitute classified information makes me wonder what on earth do you think would this is for? They were doing this two hours before an attack. What could be more classified? I mean, I'm prepared to be educated. I just can't think of anything more highly classified than that information. Can you? Can you?

[Brandon]

I know. I can appreciate your position. And I can appreciate your position.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, what's your position?

[Brandon]

I can appreciate my. My position is that I would like to wait for an investigation to.

[Tim Miller]

You don't think there's not going to be an investigation?

[Brandon]

I think that it's not. I think that it's not determined. If it were determined. If it were determined, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about it right now and there wouldn't be congressional hearings right now where this is being discussed and determined.

[Dave Rubin]

I don't even know. Tulsi Gabbard yesterday, giving evidence, the Senate, obviously, she said it wasn't. She repeatedly said it's not classified information. To which my question would be, well, Tulsi, what is. You know.

[Brandon]

But my point is that it is being debated, so you can feel strongly that it shouldn't be debated, not been determined to be.

[Dave Rubin]

How can talking about a war operation two hours before it's about to happen not be highly classified? Unless you think there is a difference. You think that should all be openly discussed.

[Congressman]

Well, look, you're never going to convince.

[Brandon]

I'm not defending it.

[Congressman]

You're never going to convince.

[Brandon]

There is a difference between an airstrike and a war plan.

[Dave Rubin]

But I think I've got more, to be honest, I think I've got more chance of convincing. I've got more chance of convincing Dave and I seem to have with Brandon. I mean, Dave, let me just bring you back. I want to play.

[Congressman]

It's not going to happen because.

[Dave Rubin]

Hang on. I want to play.

[Congressman]

I want to play the version of Cancel Culture.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, that's the Dear Leader's box. This is the benefit of the doubt.

[Congressman]

Can I talk about why? Can I talk about why this matters to the American public, though? Yeah, because this matters to the American public because America used to be known as a country that was no better friend and no worse enemy. And now we're picking fights with Canada and we're appeasing Russia and the rest of the world doesn't know what kind of a friend we are and they don't know how seriously to take us as an enemy. And when they see this kind of incompetence, when they see this kind of hypocrisy, when they see this kind of chaos and corruption coming out of the Trump administration, it makes Americans everywhere less safe because it makes our allies a successful operation and it makes our allies trust us less.

[Dave Rubin]

It was a successful operation.

[Brandon]

It was a successful operation.

[Dave Rubin]

It was a successful operation in spite of the cock up. Let me bring Dave back in.

[Congressman]

Dave, I want to play at the same time.

[Dave Rubin]

Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I want to play with the Black.

[Congressman]

Sea, which Mike Walls can't even point out to on a map.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, okay. Let me. Let me just play a clip of Tulsi Gabbard from this talking about whether she was even on the group.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Director Gabbard, did you participate in the group chat with Secretary of Defense and other Trump senior officials discussing the Yemen war plans?

[Jake Auchincloss]

Senator, I don't want to get into this, ma'am.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Were you on. You're not going to be willing to address. So you're not. Are you denying. Matt, will you answer my question? Ma'am, you are not TG on this group chat.

[Jake Auchincloss]

I'm not going to get into the.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Specifics to acknowledge whether you are on this group chat.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Senator. I'm not going to get into the specifics.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Why are you going to get into the specifics?

[Dave Rubin]

Is this.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Is it because it's all classified?

[Jake Auchincloss]

Because this is currently under review by the National Security.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Because it's all classified. If it's not classified. Share the text now.

[Dave Rubin]

I mean, Dave, I thought that was a very good question, very good way of skewering Tulsi because he's basically saying, look, the only reason you wouldn't be prepared to confirm that obviously true fact that you were on the chat, because we've seen the chats, would be if you deemed it classified material, which by definition now we believe would be an unlawful act if they were talking about classified information on Signal. So he kind of trapped her there, didn't he?

[Jake Auchincloss]

Again, there's a couple of things going on here. Number one, I think we're all in agreement that Walt screwed up by putting this guy in the chat. That's number one. There seems to be a little, for everybody, a little legal confusion around whether Signal can be used or not. The Congressman saying it absolutely can't for classified information. Ratcliffe is saying not only was he told it could be, but it was preloaded on their computers. So why was. Why did the CIA put it on their computers? I think that's really worth thinking about.

[Dave Rubin]

I agree.

[Jake Auchincloss]

If it is illegal to use as a mode of communication, why is it put on their computers?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, to be fair. To be fair. To be fair on that point, you can use Signal, but the point being it's illegal to put classified information on the signal.

[Congressman]

Yeah. This is not complicated.

[Dave Rubin]

They're not saying you can't use Signal. It might be true.

[Jake Auchincloss]

It would be a little odd that they would preload it onto the CIA director's computer then, but. Okay, we can put that there, which.

[Dave Rubin]

Is a perfectly valid question. I agree.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Yeah. As for what Tulsi said there, she's saying there's an investigation, so she's just not going to comment on it right now. I mean, that's what virtually every official does with every hearing we've ever seen. So I'm not gonna sit here and throw her under the bus for that.

[Dave Rubin]

Do you think, Dave, anyone should be fired?

[Jake Auchincloss]

I think if. Look, Walls made a cataclysmic mistake. Right. He's basically admitted it at this point. And just like I said 20 minutes ago, if Trump makes the estimation that stupidity, sheer stupidity, whether it was that he had the wrong name in there or he just, you know, we all have multiple people with the same initials or whatever it might be, whether it was just stupidity, ignorance, not understanding Signal, whatever that might be, if Trump deems that fireable, then so be it. If I was the president right now and I knew that this group existed, would I probably fire the guy who created this firestorm? The answer is yes. But Trump has to make that estimation.

[Dave Rubin]

That's a perfectly reasonable and honest assessment. Thank you. Let's just change Tack. I think you'll enjoy this one a bit better. Dave. I'm gonna start with you, Tim, on this. This is the Democratic Texas Congresswoman, Jasmine Crockett talking about the.

[Jake Auchincloss]

This is more my style. I appreciate it.

[Dave Rubin]

I thought you might enjoy this. Yeah. Talking to the. About the Texas Governor, Greg Abbott, who of course is wheelchair bound. Let's take a listen.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Y'all know we got governor hot wheels down there. Come on now. And the only thing hot about him is that he is a hot ass mess. Honey.

[Dave Rubin]

Tim, not only did she make a crass, repulsive jibe about the fact that Greg Abbott is a disabled man in a wheelchair, and that is clearly indisputable in my eyes, she then did this. She issued a statement saying, I wasn't thinking about the governor's condition. I was thinking about the planes, trains and automobiles he used to transfer migrants into communities led by black mayors, deliberately stoking tension and fear among the most vulnerable. Literally. The next line I said was that he was a hot. A mess, referencing his terrible policies. At no point did I mention or allude to his condition. So I'm even more appalled that the very people who unequivocally support Trump, a man known for racially insensitive nicknames and mocking those with disabilities, are now outraged. Now, Tim, you're an intelligent human being. You're a fair minded human being.

[Tim Miller]

Am I?

[Dave Rubin]

She's talking utter bullshit, isn't she?

[Tim Miller]

The statement was not necessary or great and obviously untrue. I don't. I think she should have just wrote it out with the joke. Everybody can make a judgment about whether they appreciate a joke at Greg Abbott's expense. I find it hard to imagine that my co panelists from MAGA World are gonna start clutching their pearls over somebody making a mean joke at somebody. Then that's like the core to President of the United States. Who get outrage over jokes.

[Jake Auchincloss]

You guys, who get outrage over the joke. That's the difference.

[Congressman]

Made it.

[Tim Miller]

Excuse me, Dave.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Tim, the difference is that we are not the people who get outraged over every joke and every word and every sort of innue. It's you guys.

[Tim Miller]

Well, so good.

[Jake Auchincloss]

So I'm not outraged at the joke. I'm outraged at the fact that a Human Rights Campaign fundraiser, where it's about all the marginalized people and the perceived oppression of the trans people and everything else. That there. She's making a joke about disabled people and they're laughing about it. I'm not outraged at the joke. I make far worse jokes than that on my show. Every single day.

[Dave Rubin]

I mean, other people bring in, we're.

[Tim Miller]

Slicing it kind of thin there. So we're going to pretend to be outraged about her joke when the president United States core brand is making these sort of jokes. So I wouldn't, if I was her, I wouldn't have put out the statement afterwards if it's me. You know, I don't know. I think that Dave's kind of business model over there. You know, I don't, I don't take money from, from any Russian assets. Like, that's just me. So I'm able to just kind of say what I really take money from msnbc. You never know. But so I understand why he might not, you know, he might want to pick his spots.

[Dave Rubin]

All right, well, let me bring great.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Work you're doing at Bulwark, a real solid place of journalism over there.

[Tim Miller]

Well, we haven't taken any money from the Russians of the Bulwark peers. I don't know if you know this, But Dave took 400,000 dol per month from a Russian information operation. And so you understand why.

[Jake Auchincloss]

What was the name? I said the show that I did for the Russians.

[Tim Miller]

Tell me that now is just handing things over to the Russians that he has to pretend to be outraged about things. You know, just. You don't know who's paying you.

[Jake Auchincloss]

What was the name of the show I did for the Russians, champ?

[Tim Miller]

It was Tenet Media that paid you. Tenet Media. What was the name of the Shelton per month and a hundred thousand signing bonus. That not you.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Yeah, you just literally don't know what you're talking about, which is you work for MSNBC in the Bulwark. It's impressive.

[Tim Miller]

All right, so you weren't Commentator 1 in that indictment there, Dave. That wasn't you.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Yeah, I was commentator one. It was nice to read something honest about me that I did all my due diligence trying to figure out what was going on over there. What was the name of the show? Tell me about the propaganda I put out there.

[Tim Miller]

Well, it was Tenant Media that was paying you. Tenant Media was a Russian.

[Jake Auchincloss]

What was the name of the show?

[Tim Miller]

RT Cutout. Yeah, it was a Russian cutout. Art, you're talking about an RT cutout. I've never been paid by a Russian cutout, so I don't exactly know how it all works.

[Jake Auchincloss]

You're paid by msnbc, which is state owned propaganda. You're paid by the Bulwark, which is sheer.

[Tim Miller]

Which should be just cold.

[Jake Auchincloss]

Whatever it is you people are doing.

[Brandon]

Could I jump in on that.

[Jake Auchincloss]

What was the name of the show that I did? What was the name? You don't know because you don't know what you're saying.

[Ryan]

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